Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Bamboo no more

Messages posted to thread:
Cameron Root 29-Sep-17
bodymanbowyer 29-Sep-17
wonderbowman 29-Sep-17
mgerard 29-Sep-17
Cameron Root 29-Sep-17
Cameron Root 29-Sep-17
LBshooter 29-Sep-17
BATMAN 30-Sep-17
Phil 30-Sep-17
Jeff Durnell 30-Sep-17
Tater 30-Sep-17
Cameron Root 30-Sep-17
Cameron Root 30-Sep-17
Jinkster 30-Sep-17
Elderly OCR 30-Sep-17
MedicineBow 30-Sep-17
Cameron Root 30-Sep-17
fdp 30-Sep-17
Cameron Root 30-Sep-17
Cameron Root 30-Sep-17
Longcruise 30-Sep-17
Cameron Root 30-Sep-17
tzolk 30-Sep-17
Renewed Archer 30-Sep-17
tzolk 30-Sep-17
JamesV 30-Sep-17
Cameron Root 30-Sep-17
mgerard 30-Sep-17
Cameron Root 30-Sep-17
Cameron Root 30-Sep-17
Cameron Root 30-Sep-17
KDdog 30-Sep-17
strshotx 30-Sep-17
Cameron Root 30-Sep-17
dean 30-Sep-17
Leathercutter 30-Sep-17
NOVA7 30-Sep-17
Katman 30-Sep-17
Cameron Root 30-Sep-17
Dogman 30-Sep-17
Longcruise 30-Sep-17
Phil 30-Sep-17
Cameron Root 30-Sep-17
dean 30-Sep-17
Cameron Root 30-Sep-17
dean 30-Sep-17
Cameron Root 30-Sep-17
Cameron Root 30-Sep-17
woodyt 01-Oct-17
Cameron Root 01-Oct-17
Cameron Root 01-Oct-17
Cameron Root 10-Aug-18
Orion 10-Aug-18
two4hooking 10-Aug-18
grizz 10-Aug-18
Cameron Root 10-Aug-18
romanator 10-Aug-18
Cameron Root 10-Aug-18
Orion 10-Aug-18
Orion 10-Aug-18
unhinged 10-Aug-18
two4hooking 10-Aug-18
Cameron Root 10-Aug-18
Jim 10-Aug-18
Styksnstryngs 10-Aug-18
swampwalker 10-Aug-18
timex 10-Aug-18
two4hooking 10-Aug-18
Thor 10-Aug-18
Cameron Root 10-Aug-18
Buckdancer 14-Aug-18
dean 14-Aug-18
Tim Finley 15-Aug-18
MStyles 15-Aug-18
Cameron Root 15-Aug-18
Cameron Root 15-Aug-18
Cameron Root 16-Aug-18
dean 16-Aug-18
two4hooking 16-Aug-18
Cameron Root 16-Aug-18
Buckdancer 16-Aug-18
camodave 18-Aug-18
Cameron Root 18-Aug-18
Yellow Dog 18-Aug-18
dean 18-Aug-18
dean 18-Aug-18
From: Cameron Root
Date: 29-Sep-17




Although a well made bamboo longbow is preferred by many. Not for me. Don't get me wrong i have some dandys but they do not compare to a maple cherry core longbow that I have made by Steve Turay. I like it so much I ordered another. Rooty

From: bodymanbowyer
Date: 29-Sep-17




Maple, cherry a couple of my favorites. Better than bamboo IMO. JF

From: wonderbowman
Date: 29-Sep-17




It really depends on what bamboo is used.

From: mgerard Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 29-Sep-17




Don't over look walnut!

From: Cameron Root
Date: 29-Sep-17




Like I said I have some good ones a Schultz and another Nortther Mist Classic which have excellent bamboo. I've had many others. The core selection isn't something that is of concern to Steve but for me i can tell a big difference. I am not going to overlook any wood for core from now on. Rooty

From: Cameron Root
Date: 29-Sep-17




The combo deserves a name. MACH 1

From: LBshooter
Date: 29-Sep-17




Better as in faster?i thought bamboo was the fastest.

From: BATMAN Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 30-Sep-17




What style long bows are we talking about? What was the construction of the bamboo bows and what type of boo?? wish that the photo stuff would work.

From: Phil
Date: 30-Sep-17




Depends on the type of Bamboo used ... Guadua is probably one of the best

From: Jeff Durnell Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 30-Sep-17




Yeah, what kind of bows are we talking about? Bows with fiberglass on them? Or backed and/or laminated bows of all wood?

Black cherry is one of my favorite core woods in a glass bow.

Bamboo is one of my least favorite core woods, but a favorite backing material on bows without glass.

Hard maple can be good in either instance, I just find it kind of bleh to look at.

From: Tater Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 30-Sep-17




I have a Traditions Longbow built by Tom Parsons it is five alternating laminations of bamboo and black walnut, one of the smoothest and quickest ASL's I have.

From: Cameron Root
Date: 30-Sep-17




Hill style

From: Cameron Root
Date: 30-Sep-17




Draw and shot feel. Fastest so far but also the most draw weight. Type of bamboo is what ever Schultz and Steve used at the time as I said I've had several And they were not anything to keep especially hha bows. Rooty

From: Jinkster
Date: 30-Sep-17




Where organic cores are concerned?...you won't find anything lighter than Bamboo which makes it both the fastest core material one can choose and as a result of that?...also offers up the least amount of hand shock.

I think the key elements that results in folks opining otherwise is either poor tillering or poor tuning because the difference in the overall performance of core materials pales in comparison too the overall build of the bow yet?...the lions share of world flight records are set by bows incorporating bamboo cores laminated with CF on back and belly with zero glass.

Meanwhile?...it is my understanding that the quietest bows out there are zero glass split-bamboo longbows such as the ones Dave Miller builds.

Either way?...I'm happy you're happy with your bow! :)

From: Elderly OCR
Date: 30-Sep-17




Bamboo power fibers are actually heavier than any wood. This has been repeatedly shown.

In typical form of part power fibers and part pithier inner section it is still about the same as a mid-weight wood. Paarticularly when you consider that it will soak up more glue and gain mass from that.

From: MedicineBow
Date: 30-Sep-17




Agree w/ much of the above. On a bow by bow comparison I see little real benefit of one material over the other for limb cores. The foam cores have a different feel but it's no big deal. If it shoots good, shoot it!

From: Cameron Root
Date: 30-Sep-17




I didn't say no more bamboo for the ones that have to have it lol. NO MORE FOR ME on it's own. I hope to get some Dan Toelke bows where he uses maple for compression. Rooty

From: fdp
Date: 30-Sep-17




I agree completely with Cameron Root. I learned a long time ago that when it comes to cores in glass bows, there is as much or more performance difference between individual sets of laminations from the same type of wood, then there is between different species of wood.

From: Cameron Root
Date: 30-Sep-17

Cameron Root's embedded Photo



This is the bow

From: Cameron Root
Date: 30-Sep-17

Cameron Root's embedded Photo



Here's a fine bamboo bow. No thank you

From: Longcruise
Date: 30-Sep-17




When you consider the number of identical bows needed to gather useable data for realistically accurate comparison, it leaves me convinced that it has never been done. I know, there is plenty of data on wood used in selfbows and there are differences but they don't necessarily translate to glass lam bows.

From: Cameron Root
Date: 30-Sep-17

Cameron Root's embedded Photo



Schultz. Nope

From: tzolk
Date: 30-Sep-17

tzolk's embedded Photo



Rooty, Dan made me a 68 super d recently with all bamboo along with the usual walnut accent strips. My other 68 has maple on the compression side and speed wise Between the two, I can't tell the difference. He would be the guy to talk to about bamboo, they use it religiously although i don't know which type they use.

From: Renewed Archer
Date: 30-Sep-17




Who doesn't love cherry? Great in pies, at least. Love the wood too.

I don't know much about bow building, but I remember reading something Brandon Stahl said and I think he does know what he's talking about. He said that if he were blindfolded and shot identical bows made w/bamboo and with maple cores he wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them. He also said that bowyers prefer working with bamboo b/c it's easier to work than maple or other hardwoods. He said (or implied, I don't recall which) that the myth of bamboo being faster or better than maple was created by a bowyer or bowyers who wanted people to order bows made with bamboo. Because it's easier to make bows with bamboo. He doesn't think there's any performance difference.

Similarly, I've read that carbon in limbs was/is touted as making the bows faster b/c bowyers wanted something different that they could offer that would get people to buy their bows instead of someone else's. It didn't hurt that they could charge more for it also. I don't have a carbon limbed bow nor a chrono, but I know someone who bought a very expensive carbon bow that was supposed to shoot something like 209 fps. When he compared it to his fastest vintage bows from the early 60s, it wasn't even as fast as they were... using similar bow weights and the same arrows.

It's hard to know what to believe.

Shandor

From: tzolk
Date: 30-Sep-17

tzolk's embedded Photo



Here's the first 68" super d made with bamboo, yew, and maple in the cores. Really no speed difference between this and the all bamboo one. He heat treats their bamboo and maple but I do not know how that affects the woods. Cherry and maple cores sound like a neat combo to try out. You should chrono that bow and see how the core affects the numbers.

From: JamesV
Date: 30-Sep-17




This is why they make chocolate and vanilla.

James

From: Cameron Root
Date: 30-Sep-17




I have fasted longbow I have. Also the heaviest. That's not as important as the over all pleasentness of the bow to shoot. I draw it 73#@26" which is 10# more and is More pleasent to shoot by a very noticeable difference. Rooty

From: mgerard Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 30-Sep-17




I like bowyers that make what I want :>)

From: Cameron Root
Date: 30-Sep-17




I spent hours with Dan Toelke this summer. He definitely listens to what you have to say and has solutions for what your after. The super D is on the near future and if I change to another style of bow with happens often he will have one for that also. Rooty

From: Cameron Root
Date: 30-Sep-17




Believe nothing try for yourself. Rooty

From: Cameron Root
Date: 30-Sep-17




I've heard several times that the core isn't a main factor. It is to me. There are tender spot in my arms, shoulders, elbows, neck and even forehead that contribute to my findings for me. Now about the forehead lol. Whith the wrong combo I've felt a minor concussion feel not like shooting a 460 wheatherby but still a bit. Rooty

From: KDdog
Date: 30-Sep-17




Can't go wrong w a Toelke. Dan is the man. I don't have one of his longbows, yet. But I love my SS.

From: strshotx
Date: 30-Sep-17




I have a Green Mountain Classic that has all black cherry lams in the limbs.Excellent shooter and is faster then I thought!

From: Cameron Root
Date: 30-Sep-17




Do you have a pic?. The classic I've ordered will be all green. Rooty

From: dean
Date: 30-Sep-17




Ah yes, I can tell that you never had a good yew cored bow. There is more to this than the limb core, reverted trap, shooting style, whatever. I had an area longbow shooter here, three years ago a made similar claims about osage cores and then red elm cores. I let him shoot several of my right hand and dual shooter bows, and he said, "What the heck do you do to get bows like this? I had bamboo that was terrible, nothing like these." I asked, "did it have a fast flight?" He had tried B 50 and fast flights, it was still harsh, according to him. I will concede that Steve Turay has that reverse trap thing figured out pretty well.

From: Leathercutter
Date: 30-Sep-17




Steve could make a bow out of an old card board box and it would look and shoot good.

From: NOVA7
Date: 30-Sep-17




Ive always perfered balsa for speed and durability.

From: Katman
Date: 30-Sep-17




Rooty, glad you found a goodin' for you. My belief is design and construction play a major role in how a bow shoots/feels. Several bowyers have related that once in a while they get that magic bow but make others that are not, just the way it is with natural materials and human influence.

As far as core material I will tell the bowyer what I am looking for and let him decide what would work with his design.

From: Cameron Root
Date: 30-Sep-17




I don't know what yew call good but I've had a few I liked. I like my yew in a selfbow of which I have a few. The Schultz bow I refer to was yours and it's a dandy. Maybe it's just the bow combo that j like so to make sure I bought another one with bamboo good fast but no cigar. So I've ordered another the same to make sure. It could be just this bow but I amm going to find out. Rooty

From: Dogman
Date: 30-Sep-17




Talking with Mike at 7 Lakes he says basically the same thing. If there was a bow wood/grass that was really better than the others someone would have the proof by now. He uses a lot of North American Hardwoods that shoot just as well as any imported wood and his customers don't have to pay his shipping fees. PS. he also uses woods from around the world but the customer has to pay his shipping.

From: Longcruise
Date: 30-Sep-17




The 7 lakes customer finish bow blank is probably the best deal on Earth for an ASL. You can have your grip exactly as you want it.

Once it's in hand all it takes is a willingness to read instructions, a rasp, some sandpaper and a bottle of Tru oil.

From: Phil
Date: 30-Sep-17




Of course I'm sure no one needs reminding that Bamboo isn't a wood but a grass, so comparisons are pretty pointless

From: Cameron Root
Date: 30-Sep-17




Huh lol rotflmao oh no I compared the wrong cores. Rooty

From: dean
Date: 30-Sep-17




I, in no way doubt that Rooty's cherry wood bow is not a good shooter, he has some very good bows to compare it too. As far as yew goes, I have owned and given away some that absolutely needed a fast flight flight to be shootable. I tend to keep those that shoot good with any string. There is a variable in yew that I don't quite understand. One of the finest bows that I ever shot was a third generation yew with exceptional grain that was as I was told lightly sinew and raw calf hide backed. I imagine there are variations in cherry that need to be considered as well.

From: Cameron Root
Date: 30-Sep-17




If I ever made the commitment to match up my selfbows with appropriate arrows. I know ill never look back. I have i life time supply of Rempp bows and one we made together. The last little monster a got this summer shoots hunting weight arrows 160 fps with my short draw. But I know there there like several others I like. Rooty

From: dean
Date: 30-Sep-17




O course, Rooty has not shot my new Sunset Hill or my Morningstar or my Berry dual shooter. Or the one bamboo/yew that I cannot part with. I did two of them, they looked identical both were good, but one is a miracle. I wonder how often, if ever, there are two identical longbows.

From: Cameron Root
Date: 30-Sep-17




I know you have great bows Dean as I have one that you spoke well of. I'll keep my search up as I am never going to quit. Rooty

From: Cameron Root
Date: 30-Sep-17

Cameron Root's embedded Photo



Bow on the left is a yew boo yew lee Kramer that I've shot a lot. Had a hha robin hood dual shelf it had 4 lamps of dark yew and one thin lam of boo with the knodes on the back 55# I liked it left handed. 2 half breeds nothing special there for me.

From: woodyt
Date: 01-Oct-17




Interesting thread and I'm sure other woods like Cherry, ash, walnut etc. would work just fine.

From: Cameron Root
Date: 01-Oct-17




I've had ash. Yes I am sure others work. This particular combo continues to reward me after weeks of shooting, getting comfortable with the weight which has been an easy transition. I've had other 80+# bow that after a few shots I go okay that's good as something has been maxed out. This is my daily shooter shooting a dozen at a time. Most of this is due to Steve's Design but not all. Rooty

From: Cameron Root
Date: 01-Oct-17

Cameron Root's embedded Photo



This bow is 72# @ my draw

From: Cameron Root
Date: 10-Aug-18

Cameron Root's embedded Photo



Heres another No Boo. Rooty

From: Orion Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 10-Aug-18




Obviously, folks have preferences for different core woods/grass. Just about all the core woods available have been named in this thread. Until we compare bows exactly the same in every detail except core woods, superior performance will continue to be personal preference/opinion. Not a bad thing, just the way it is.

Core woods do contribute more to performance in the stacked limb design of an ASL vis- s-vis a thinner, wider recurve/hybrid limb though, so the quest for the best is worthwhile.

From: two4hooking
Date: 10-Aug-18




I'm not getting rid of my boo Sunset Hill! NO thank you.

Boo-Yeah for me.

From: grizz
Date: 10-Aug-18




I have a boo bow. Boo core and lams, in near 50 years, it's the fastest 50# bow I've ever shot. But I think it's those two carbon lams sandwiched in there that do the trick. That said, my maple cored recurve (slower) is my all time favorite bow.

From: Cameron Root
Date: 10-Aug-18




Luckily for me a friend of mine just got a sunset hill and couldn't wait to get rid of it. Saves me years of waiting. Rooty

From: romanator
Date: 10-Aug-18




Really interesting thread. Boo-Yeah for me too! And just to stir the pot, James Berry and Fred Anderson are my Favorite Bowyers, and my 'go to' bows.

From: Cameron Root
Date: 10-Aug-18




I do have a boo on order from Miller if it compares I will posts results either way. Rooty

From: Orion Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 10-Aug-18




Not a fair comparison, Romanator. James is a wizard and puts a little magic into every bow he builds. :>) Have to put those two at the top of my list as well.

From: Orion Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 10-Aug-18




Of course, Steve Turay has also been known to sneak a little magic into his bows as well. He's also one of my favorites. Have quite a few, actually. Can add Nate Stene and Dave Wallace. I also like Allen Boice's bows. Though I don't own one, I hear Dan Toelke makes an excellent bow as well. I'm sure I forgot some. So many choices, so little time.

From: unhinged
Date: 10-Aug-18

unhinged's embedded Photo



I am also fond of the Maple, Cherry combo. Flat grain Maple for tension and quarter sawn Cherry for compression.

From: two4hooking
Date: 10-Aug-18




....and he didn't have to look very hard or far to find someone willing to pick up that Sunset either LOL!

Your friend has quite a collection of severely backset bows and has a liking to the speed. Apples and oranges.

From: Cameron Root
Date: 10-Aug-18




The new owner gets even less speed. Nice and slow is not for my draw. Rooty

From: Jim Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 10-Aug-18




"This is why they make chocolate and vanilla" James I'm with you JamesV, it's like splitting hairs!..............Jim

From: Styksnstryngs
Date: 10-Aug-18




Technically speaking, black cherry should have one of the highest performances of many core woods, even though the lighter mass requires a slightly thicker core. Black cherry is shown to have the lowest hysteris of any known wood, which means less energy is lost to internal friction, and in a fiberglass bow, I think that's pretty underrated in a corewood. It also looks pretty without veneers.

From: swampwalker
Date: 10-Aug-18




Had someone mention thst cherry selfbows were a little "doggy". That so?

From: timex
Date: 10-Aug-18




I don't have a chronograph & don't really care about fps as long as the arrow goes where I'm looking that beying said the benoit red cedar long bow I have is only 38# at my draw & it really spits out an arrow I have 100% confidence that it's enough energy with 28" .600 gt's & 145 gr 2 edge heads to get excellent penetration on whitetail & even black bear. the performance is quiet impressive

From: two4hooking
Date: 10-Aug-18




You want speed shoot a hybrid. Nate's bows are the fastest stringfollow I'll wager.

From: Thor
Date: 10-Aug-18




If bamboo was good enough for Howard Hill then it's good enough for me !!!!! HAHAHA

From: Cameron Root
Date: 10-Aug-18




My string follow Rebel with cross cut bamboo lams matchs the speed of my Schultz legend with the same specs. The bamboo classic mist I had was a tic faster same draw weight 2 " longer. None of those bows compare in the feel of draw, shot and finish of the classic I have now. I am in ansiapation that the American will be same or better. Out of near 30 bows asl's, hybrids, recurves nothing compares. Along with another 50 bows that have passed thru. I have one recurve that is faster and a couple that tie the speed but do not tie the shot cycle. I dont know how to take your water but over the keyboard my rebel string follow would kick your ass. Rooty

From: Buckdancer
Date: 14-Aug-18




Kick your ass ????

From: dean
Date: 14-Aug-18




I bet that Schulz Legend has killed a lot more animals than that cross cut SF. 64@26&1/4? Little things like drawing a bow to its specs, arrow contact, string weight can have different effects on different bows. Also, what seems like is not always exactly what is. I have one bow that seems like it is a little bit harsher feeling than other bows, but the old 'what is' kicks in when I am field dressing game that it shot. Hunting accuracy trumps everything else.

From: Tim Finley Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 15-Aug-18




Mixing different types of wood in the lams like maple and walnut makes for a nice contrast to look at but the bow will only preform as good as the poorest wood in the stack. Some woods may gain you a little speed the fastest I have seen is Russian Olive its very light weight . The best lam material I have found is laminated bamboo easy to work with, very consistent and trouble free, and they shoot as good as anything .

From: MStyles
Date: 15-Aug-18




Howard Hill preferred a certain kind of Bamboo. I like Bamboo bc I believe it makes for a smoother drawing bow. My Big Five is all bamboo a draws as smooth as butter.

From: Cameron Root
Date: 15-Aug-18




Dean you know that bow is special and out performs countless bows as it was yours it does have a tic of a harsh finish. I still have hope of one more boo bow that's almost finished. But the Mist non bamboo bows suit my tastes the best.

From: Cameron Root
Date: 15-Aug-18




True on mixing lams. So Iam going to find out. I have maple and cherry, I have maple. Now I've ordered all cherry will see. Rooty

From: Cameron Root
Date: 16-Aug-18




So just to make sure my latest boo bow is made by Miller it has backset and the specs are 66" 70- 75#@26" I will see what's what for me. Rooty

From: dean
Date: 16-Aug-18




My current 5 ASLs are way better than average in one way or another. Hitting game with as unhindered a shot as I can take is a big deal for me. The speed differences are not enough to matter.

From: two4hooking
Date: 16-Aug-18




My favorite bows are stringfollow so they will be smooth drawing and gentle at the shot. That is more important to me and improves the forgiveness of the system. I am willing to give up a few fps for this. I'll take boo and stringfollow.

From: Cameron Root
Date: 16-Aug-18




Definition of forgiving bow. Lazy complete with turd speed.

From: Buckdancer
Date: 16-Aug-18




I'm going to use my lazy turd string follow bow that your friend couldn't wait to get rid of on my bear hunt in two weeks. It'll get the job done !

From: camodave
Date: 18-Aug-18




Personal preference.

DDave

From: Cameron Root
Date: 18-Aug-18




Dave good to hear from you. Thought you pulled a hank snow. Rooty

From: Yellow Dog
Date: 18-Aug-18




I have two rose Oak Ace's. Both 60" 44@28, I draw 30" so both bows on my scale are exactly 49@30. One has bamboo cores and the other maple. Through a chronograph both are 180fps +/- 1fps. The draw on the bamboo cored bow is smoother than the maple cored bow which has a stiffer feel on the draw at the same weight and speed as the bamboo cored bow. My vote......bamboo

From: dean
Date: 18-Aug-18




I think sometimes people with a really soft release need the faster bows just so they can try to keep up with us guys with the crisp release. What Rooty really needs is a 62" Robertson over drive or better yet a short draw Wolfer.

From: dean
Date: 18-Aug-18




Once you go R/D you never go back.





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