Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Hawaii Hunting is Going Extinct.

Messages posted to thread:
Msturm 14-Sep-17
Labackwoodsman 14-Sep-17
Wild Bill 14-Sep-17
Too Many Bows Bob 14-Sep-17
David McLendon 14-Sep-17
Dry Bones 14-Sep-17
JusPassin 14-Sep-17
PEARL DRUMS 14-Sep-17
Shorthair 14-Sep-17
Spike_Master 14-Sep-17
BOX CALL 14-Sep-17
TrapperKayak 14-Sep-17
goldentrout_one 14-Sep-17
jk 14-Sep-17
GF 14-Sep-17
Greyfox 14-Sep-17
osage 14-Sep-17
Linecutter 14-Sep-17
Red Dogs 14-Sep-17
RymanCat 14-Sep-17
BenMaher 14-Sep-17
TrapperKayak 14-Sep-17
Lowcountry 14-Sep-17
GF 14-Sep-17
PECO 14-Sep-17
muddyIA 14-Sep-17
goldentrout_one 14-Sep-17
3Ditional 14-Sep-17
StikBow 14-Sep-17
Bowlim 14-Sep-17
TheMachoMan 15-Sep-17
Surfbow 15-Sep-17
BOX CALL 15-Sep-17
jk 15-Sep-17
Too Many Bows Bob 16-Sep-17
3Ditional 17-Sep-17
Thundermtn 17-Sep-17
sake3 17-Sep-17
From: Msturm
Date: 14-Sep-17




Aloha, Just spreading this message to those who wish to bowhunt or hunt in general in Hawaii. There may very likely be nothing left when you get here.

The Department of Land and Natural Resources here in Hawaii has decided that TOTAL eradication is the first and only option for dealing with feral sheep, goats and in many places pigs.

This recently hit home with me as I found that one of my favorite goat hunting spots, where many of the stories I post here come from, was to be completely eradicated with no plan for meat salvage. Flyovers began unannounced on the 23rd of August and at least 6 people were on the mountain during the shoot, myself included. Flyovers will continue until goat numbers are at zero.

I know this is not a political forum, but with the closing of hunting grounds happening all over the islands, and eradication taking place in the hunting areas not closed we hunters are soon to be left with nothing. Here is an update I made to a news story that I was part of. Please watch it check out the links, nothing is for sale nothing is for profit. We just need help and support in our struggle to save some game for future generations.

If you have any ideas on how to fight this foolishness please let me hear them! Check out the video below for a more detailed account of what is going on and links to the proposals we have sent out.

Thanks!

Msturm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ts7zAPOJKE

From: Labackwoodsman
Date: 14-Sep-17




That's very sad

From: Wild Bill
Date: 14-Sep-17




Just what one might expect from the most liberal state in the union. Keep electing them and it will only get worse.

I hunted pig there three years ago and loved every minute of it. I met many wonderful people, but, there is a stark contrast between the have and have not classes.

Little known, is the saving of the Hawaiian people from moral/social collapse, by Christians, when the monarchy failed their people.

Aloha.

From: Too Many Bows Bob
Date: 14-Sep-17




What are they hoping to accomplish? I know that a few years ago there was talk about eradicating moose in Norway to help with "global warming" because of moose farts.

Are they trying to kill off the non native species because they are destructive to the environment?

TMBB

From: David McLendon
Date: 14-Sep-17




There must be a plan for that land down the road. Big money interests are in the background pulling government strings. Find and follow the money.

From: Dry Bones
Date: 14-Sep-17




Like Bob, I have to ask the question of, What's the point? On an island chain such as Hawaii are the numbers of feral sheep & goats really that bad that they are showing signs of environmental destruction? I may be wrong about this as well, but I believed there to be a healthy population of Axis deer on one island? Are they going to be decimated as well? -Not sure how you fight against the political steam wagon, but I wish you the best. As a side note. If you and a few others were on the land during a flyover, seems VERY reckless of the Wildlife Council.

-Bones

From: JusPassin Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Sep-17




It is so funny how the Islands are always portrayed on the media as a paradise state, and you talk to anyone who has lived there and it is a slum of epic proportions. Drug usage, homelessness, poverty are all rampant. No clue as to how killing of all the pigs and goats will help anything.

From: PEARL DRUMS
Date: 14-Sep-17




Let them have their fun. Then wait about a year and release a handful of goats. They will be back in no time.

From: Shorthair Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Sep-17




Lets be real, you cannot blame them for wanting to get rid of destructive feral animals that are non-native as much as possible? They destroy natural plants and gardens of domestic nature....and have no natural predators other than man and not enough hunters to keep them under control in the unforgiving terrain there in the islands. As much as I like hunting wild pigs in southeast.....as a landowner I wish every mother fucker was dead or in a pen. They are huge destroyers of wildlife and crops and a few pigs can root up acres and acres and acres every evening.

If they want to try and eradicate all of the goats, pigs, and sheep...they will come close but they will never get rid of them all. One or two domestic pigs get loose....one or two domestic goats or sheep get loose....in 2 years you have 100 pigs and 20 sheep and goats.

keep em sharp,

ron herman

From: Spike_Master
Date: 14-Sep-17




At one time everything in Hawaii was a non-native species. Including humans.

From: BOX CALL Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Sep-17




I seen dog the bounty hunter .he was in Hawaii and it was mostly ruff looking sections of towns and cities catching criminals.

From: TrapperKayak
Date: 14-Sep-17




JusPassin, why would anyone believe what the media says? They are biased and trying to promote tourism, not portray reality. Truth is, when I was in Maui, parts of it were paradise, and some of it was poverty and drug use, and not always a safe place to be. Most of it was okay though. High drug use, like many places in Central NY now - opiate use, meth labs springing up all over. The economy dictates conditions anywhere. Here the economy sucks. There are a lot of down and out people living on the islands too. People that can't afford to live there, but can't afford to leave or live anywhere else either. You get drug use then. The media is out of touch, or if in touch, totally full of BS and liars. As for goats, sheep, and pigs, well, they aren't indigenous, but hunting does control them so maybe that should be enough. Obviously, lawmakers have other ideas. Not good for hunters obviously, to eradicate them. It may be good for native flora and fauna, but a balance could be established without total eradication I'd bet.

From: goldentrout_one
Date: 14-Sep-17




Kind of sad, reminds me of when the Catalina Island Conservancy eradicated pigs and goats from Catalina. Yes, they were non-native, but they had been there for over 100 years, and really were part of the charm of the island. But they were going to eat some indigenous plant that they hadn't managed to wipe out in over 100 years, so they shot them all from the air.

Same thing I imagine with Hawaii - pigs and goats are (I'm guessing) more or less part of the local culture by now, and the animals have probably reached some sort of equilibrium with their environment. Controlling their numbers, I can see that, but eradication? Some part of the uniqueness of Hawaii will be lost.

In the end, LIBERALS and environmentalists are no different than any other humans, in that they like to destroy things. The only difference is, the libs think they are justified in their destruction, as all humans that destroy feel they are justified in what they do.

From: jk
Date: 14-Sep-17




Native Hawaiians do like pig meat (and Spam) but beyond that (if at all), they're not into hunting.

Hunting has failed to "balance" anything anywhere...look at what it's done to whitetail and bison (or cod fish in North Atlantic).

There has to be some sort of governmental involvement, fantasies by armchair politicians don't relate. Whatever is done, it cannot be perfect.

From: GF
Date: 14-Sep-17




"Are they trying to kill off the non native species because they are destructive to the environment?"

In a word, YES. First link I went to: https://www.fws.gov/pacificislands/teslist.html

48 endangered species on Kaua'i alone. And that's just the animals - I didn't check on plant species, but I know there are a whole lot of them as well, and the overwhelming majority of them are found nowhere else....

"...and the animals have probably reached some sort of equilibrium with their environment."

Well, no. Absent an effective predator, the ferals will keep on reproducing until the only thing limiting their numbers is the amount of forage available to pregnant females. And when you're dealing with goats, that pretty much takes it down to scorched earth; of course with pigs in the mix, at least the soil is well-tilled.....

I think the folks in HA are looking at what has happened in the Galapagos and seeing the writing on the wall. I have no idea how they're going to deal with the rats and the cats and all the rest once the goats and pigs are gone (and I'd bet that they don't either), but they've gotta start somewhere....

"In the end, LIBERALS and environmentalists are no different than any other humans, in that they like to destroy things. The only difference is, the libs think they are justified in their destruction, as all humans that destroy feel they are justified in what they do."

AND to that I might add....

"In the end, CONSERVATIVES/LIBERTARIANS and Oil-Men, Miners, Loggers, and Real-Estate Developers are no different than any other humans, in that they like to destroy things. The only difference is, the NON-libs think they are justified in their destruction, as all humans that destroy feel they are justified in what they do."

Equally true both times.

Our system is far from perfect when it's working at its best, but it absolutely turns to slop whenever the two sides draw their lines in the sand and refuse to budge for anyone, for any reason, at any time.

From: Greyfox
Date: 14-Sep-17




Should be a great place to bow fish. Wild hogs seem to be a problem everywhere.

From: osage
Date: 14-Sep-17




A pack of those Canadian wolves that the politicians dumped in Idaho should take care of things.

From: Linecutter
Date: 14-Sep-17




The really bad part is, they are just letting the animals lay there and rot. From what I understand Hawaii has one on the highest unemployment rates in the country. If that is true then the meat would benefit those that need it the most. DANNY

From: Red Dogs Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Sep-17




Here, here for Shorthair and GF! And I get pretty sick of blaming everything on the "Libs"! I don't know Shorthair, or GF, but I'm guessing they wouldn't be considered "Libs", although I might be. Most of you "conservatives" might be very surprised how many folks you consider "Libs" like to hunt and fish as much as any of you do! Shorthair hit it on the head, Non-native species with no predators cause a LOT of environmental damage! And if it takes a "Lib" to understand that, then I'm glad I am one. Yes, it is sad if hunting ends, but if populations of non-native feral animals are damaging the environment then get rid of them (if they can).

From: RymanCat
Date: 14-Sep-17




This is terrible and should not be allowed. The tribal chiefs should recognize the resources and capitalize on it one way or the other!

From: BenMaher
Date: 14-Sep-17




Lots of places are doing the same with envasive species .

The game that so many see us hunting here in Australia is actually , aside from our deer species, terribly envasive and overly destructive .

The species that non Aussie hunters always enquire about ...Wild pigs, water buffalo, banteng , goats , foxes , camels ... They are no ones friends except the hunters.

It's a hard issue alright , but land management and its balance is always tricky and bound to piss off us hunters most of the time.

From: TrapperKayak
Date: 14-Sep-17




There are those who are concerned with the impact of goats, sheep, pigs, and cats n rats n elephants on Hawai'i. WHAT ABOUT ALL THE HOMO SAPIENS???? Look at what US human locusts have done to EVERY ISLAND AND EVERY CONTINENT ON THE PLANET!!! Libs and Conservs both have to eat, drink and then pass on their digested byproducts, equally (let it be known we have something in common at least). It is the HUMANS that we need to be concerned with, after all, they moved the goats n sheep and all the others there in the first place. There are hundreds of non-indigenous spp. on every part of every continent and it is because of US! Now we have to correct it, and eradicating goats on HA is one first step. 'Hunting ' won't end in Hawai'i. Native Hawai'ians FISHed, and that is a form of hunting. Take it to the oceans is all I can say.

From: Lowcountry
Date: 14-Sep-17




A NC fishing guide told me a story a couple of years ago. There was a costal island where the local politicians decided the resident herd of feral goats needed to go. Before they could take action, a snowbird lawyer took legal action to stop it. The politicians and the lawyer volleyed back and forth. Finally the politicians said the goats had to go because they were non-native. The lawyer didn't have an appropriate opposing answer, so he said "OK. But if the goats have to go, then NC's population of non-native wild horses have to go as well." which of course nobody wanted.

As the story went, the local good ole boy population took care of the goat "problem" themselves over the winter months.

Of course, half of being a good fishing guide is being a good story teller and entertainer, so take it with a grain of salt or two.

From: GF
Date: 14-Sep-17




" 'OK. But if the goats have to go, then NC's population of non- native wild horses have to go as well.' which of course nobody wanted."

I dunno about NC, but up on Chincoteague, they have an annual round-up and they remove an appropriate number of the ponies to keep everything more or less in balance. It's not actual Predation, but it has the desired effect.

Now if they would just address their feral CAT problem with something more effective than a "Support the cats" donation bucket next to every cash register on the island....

From: PECO
Date: 14-Sep-17




I have never been to Hawaii, I will get there some day. Sounds like a bad deal for the locals. I'm sure some/many locals hunt and enjoy/need the meat. As far as all of the mother trucking pigs in the south, if any of you have a problem and want to offer free hunts I am sure you will be helped out. Kinda hard to feel sorry for you when a pig hunt is so expensive. If you want me to kill your pigs maybe you should be paying me to come kill them.

From: muddyIA
Date: 14-Sep-17




Just got back from Maui last week, and man, I dont see how they can get rid of them all? That island had some of the roughest hills/mountains I've ever hiked in my life. Throw in the nasty vegetation and cover and I will bet some will scrape thru. Good luck, hopefully you find a pocket of them to sustain you.

From: goldentrout_one
Date: 14-Sep-17




GF, no argument here - as it happens I'm a civil engineer and work with developers all the time. Some of the stuff they want to do just makes me cry. Particularly difficult when they develop new ski resorts up in beautiful mountain land - prime elk and moose range, but now playground for millionaires. I'd mention a specific project I'm working on, but I don't want to get in trouble...

Very sad, but if they gotta go, they gotta go. Or, you can do like what Wyoming and Montana did, and introduce timber wolves to Hawaii! And giant eagles to control the wolves, and deadly snakes to control the eagles, and hybrid meat-eating gorillas to eat the snakes...

From: 3Ditional
Date: 14-Sep-17




In Hawaii, we don't worry about anti-hunters, we have the "Endangered Species Act". Eradication is not our only problem. Lots of goats are being trapped and sold from ranches that border our hunting areas. DLNR says they can't do anything about it being it's on private property.

Now I need to go and meditate...

From: StikBow
Date: 14-Sep-17




Don't bet they will not eventually get them all. Catalina is goat free. One island at a time, by helo and rifle. It is after all man's fault, they put them there. With great intentions. Sorry to see a great hunting destination gone. I liked goat hunting stories

From: Bowlim
Date: 14-Sep-17




That was something I always wanted to do, though probably never would have made it there. Not much of a travel budget these days.

It seemed like a hunting paradise, and I hope they really have a need to eradicate these naturalized wildlife, and aren't just taking advantage of an easy environmental score with a sideswipe on hunters. Just because something is a naturalized does not mean it is doing harm, or that it would not do harm at lower levels.

Buzzwords in fights like this are to call your local politico/s about the lack of "consultation" with the community. Infringement on "choices" (meaning lifestyle and dietary choices), "choice" any time you can throw it in there is a near magical term in politics. It would also be interesting to know what the peer reviewed science is behind the conclusion this group of naturalized animals causing harm is, and if that is a looser, what the peer reviewed science is on the method taken to bring about change. Also about high handed decision making from outside that affects you island lifestyle locally.

So if they have really good peer reviewed science over the harm issue, presumably that took years and years to assemble. Did they get that from a local place or did they parachute in some conclusion from some outside place that even if relatively identical you can portray as being not representative because they never did the research on site. If they have great results from long standing local research, then why didn't they give locals warning and time to be consulted. If they proved harm, how great was it, and how would it compare to other things the DLNR may do that have impacts on the land. Is the harm caused commensurate with the harm caused by the decision to eradicate, and did they study that, and if so why were local people not consulted. etc..

You would probably need an injunction to stop it cold, so here is hoping there is an explosion of pet goat activity locally.

From: TheMachoMan
Date: 15-Sep-17




On another note, Hawaii seems like a horrible state to live in if you like hunting.

From: Surfbow
Date: 15-Sep-17




"Native Hawaiians do like pig meat (and Spam) but beyond that (if at all), they're not into hunting."

This is false, there are lots of hunters in Hawaii! Pig hunting has a long tradition there with the native Hawaiians. You can hunt pigs, goats, and axis deer on the islands. Even many of the pro surfers are into bowhunting...

From: BOX CALL Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 15-Sep-17




Off subject,but I seen a YouTube of a native hawiann named IZ.huge guy that sung and played a ukalayle.he died and his ashes was brought to the sea in a native boat and spread.back on subject.pigs are always cooked for luaus. In the ground.seems like a big waste of resourses killing the pigs and goats off and not using the meat.

From: jk
Date: 15-Sep-17




Surf, pigs came with Europeans so that's how far back pig hunting goes in Hawaii. My grandfather installed telephones for German American Electric in Hawaii back in the day...he talked about eating dog meat.

From: Too Many Bows Bob
Date: 16-Sep-17




Just Passin,

Sounds like Hawaii has turned into Mexico.

TMBB

From: 3Ditional
Date: 17-Sep-17




JusPassin, you obviously don't know a damn thing about Hawaii!

From: Thundermtn
Date: 17-Sep-17




I wonder how much the board foot price of koa and it's sprouting plantations have impacted the political system. Hunters dollars per year probably can't match that kind money.

From: sake3
Date: 17-Sep-17




There are many ways to destroy the ultimate evil-HUNTING.So if they eliminate the prey they have disposed of the horrors of hunting'It is a total perversion of the human genome,isn't it? I detest the idea that it is ok to slaughter animals (or people) to eliminate false problems. Here in the land of concrete systematic slaughter is becoming more and more popular~~but it is considered totally anti-social to encourage hunting of bears and coyotes.





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