Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


DH Super Diablo.Serial Numbers Wanted..

Messages posted to thread:
Pdiddly 12-Jul-17
Pdiddly 12-Jul-17
Pdiddly 12-Jul-17
Brad Lehmann 12-Jul-17
Brad Lehmann 12-Jul-17
WalnutBill 12-Jul-17
brianbfree 12-Jul-17
brianbfree 12-Jul-17
brianbfree 12-Jul-17
brianbfree 12-Jul-17
woodshavins 12-Jul-17
woodshavins 13-Jul-17
Hatrick 13-Jul-17
Hatrick 13-Jul-17
Jack Whitmrie jr 13-Jul-17
Jack Whitmrie jr 13-Jul-17
Jack Whitmrie jr 13-Jul-17
Dean 13-Jul-17
crookedstix 13-Jul-17
Pdiddly 14-Jul-17
Pdiddly 14-Jul-17
Mpdh 14-Jul-17
Pdiddly 14-Jul-17
newt 14-Jul-17
newt 14-Jul-17
larryhatfield 14-Jul-17
Pdiddly 15-Jul-17
larryhatfield 15-Jul-17
Pdiddly 15-Jul-17
Jack Hoyt 15-Jul-17
Jack Hoyt 16-Jul-17
casekiska 16-Jul-17
larryhatfield 16-Jul-17
casekiska 16-Jul-17
casekiska 16-Jul-17
casekiska 16-Jul-17
casekiska 16-Jul-17
casekiska 16-Jul-17
Pdiddly 16-Jul-17
Puma 16-Jul-17
Puma 16-Jul-17
Puma 16-Jul-17
cueman 16-Jul-17
Pdiddly 16-Jul-17
larryhatfield 16-Jul-17
Pdiddly 16-Jul-17
Puma 16-Jul-17
Pdiddly 16-Jul-17
larryhatfield 17-Jul-17
T4halo 17-Jul-17
T4halo 17-Jul-17
Danny 17-Jul-17
Danny 17-Jul-17
Danny 17-Jul-17
Pdiddly 17-Jul-17
Pdiddly 17-Jul-17
Danny 17-Jul-17
larryhatfield 17-Jul-17
Pdiddly 17-Jul-17
Pdiddly 18-Jul-17
Draven 20-Feb-18
Draven 20-Feb-18
Pdiddly 20-Feb-18
Draven 21-Feb-18
Wapiti - - M. S. 21-Feb-18
Ghostbow 21-Feb-18
Pdiddly 24-Feb-18
reddogge 24-Feb-18
fdp 24-Feb-18
larryhatfield 24-Feb-18
Pdiddly 25-Feb-18
Pdiddly 25-Feb-18
cueman 25-Feb-18
Pdiddly 25-Feb-18
stonyloam 10-Jun-18
stonyloam 10-Jun-18
stonyloam 10-Jun-18
stonyloam 10-Jun-18
Pdiddly 10-Jun-18
stonyloam 10-Jun-18
cacciatore 11-Jun-18
Pdiddly 11-Jun-18
cacciatore 12-Jun-18
cacciatore 12-Jun-18
cacciatore 12-Jun-18
cacciatore 12-Jun-18
Pdiddly 12-Jun-18
cacciatore 12-Jun-18
crookedstix 12-Jun-18
Pdiddly 12-Jun-18
Brad Lehmann 12-Jun-18
jrh24 12-Jun-18
jrh24 12-Jun-18
From: Pdiddly
Date: 12-Jul-17




I would now like to do an analysis of Super Diablo serial numbers as we did with the Diablo, Hunter, Hi- Speed and Monterey.

It is now possible to accurately date all of those Howatt models without issue.

But, unlike the other models that have a "build year" suffix right after the model designator most Super Diablo's I have data on have a stand alone letter after the number.

There is one Super Diablo number I have that follows the normal pattern. It is ESDA 4941.

I will explain.

The last Diablo number I have is EDS 4780.

That Diablo, with the "S" suffix, is a 1964 bow, the last year that model was built.

The "A" designation on the Super Diablo indicates a 1966 model, the first year the SD was built.

The proximity of the serial numbers (only 200 apart) also strongly supports this analysis being accurate.

The rest of the Super Diablo's then have a three digit number and that extra letter. The purpose of that letter (and it does have a purpose) needs to be determined.

The only way to do that is collect serial numbers of older SD bows with pictures of the specs and risers.

With a larger database the purpose of that letter will become clear.

So please post clear pictures of your Super Diablo specs and decals along with a picture of the riser.

If you are the original owner please advise when you purchased it, although that info can sometimes be misleading.

Thanks very much!

Peter

From: Pdiddly
Date: 12-Jul-17




Hi again: Pre 1990 bows is what I am looking for.

From: Pdiddly
Date: 12-Jul-17




TTT

From: Brad Lehmann
Date: 12-Jul-17

Brad Lehmann's embedded Photo



Here is mine

From: Brad Lehmann
Date: 12-Jul-17

Brad Lehmann's embedded Photo



riser

From: WalnutBill
Date: 12-Jul-17




Please see my earlier post "Need help with DOM of Super Diablo" SN: ESD 409-A-60". I've only had it for a couple of years, but it was apparently made for a guy named Lou Kindred. I'm thinking it was made c. '66-67. Thanks for gathering this info.

From: brianbfree
Date: 12-Jul-17

brianbfree's embedded Photo



ESD 4004 I have had the bow for about a year

From: brianbfree
Date: 12-Jul-17

brianbfree's embedded Photo



Here is the riser

From: brianbfree
Date: 12-Jul-17

brianbfree's embedded Photo



Here is Super Diablo number two

From: brianbfree
Date: 12-Jul-17

brianbfree's embedded Photo



The riser for #2

From: woodshavins
Date: 12-Jul-17

woodshavins's embedded Photo



Here's mine Peter.

From: woodshavins
Date: 13-Jul-17

woodshavins's embedded Photo



From: Hatrick Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Jul-17

Hatrick's embedded Photo



Serial number is ESD 2259

From: Hatrick Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Jul-17

Hatrick's embedded Photo



And the decal serial number section

From: Jack Whitmrie jr
Date: 13-Jul-17

Jack Whitmrie jr's embedded Photo



Here is one of mine with serial number

From: Jack Whitmrie jr
Date: 13-Jul-17

Jack Whitmrie jr's embedded Photo



Here is riser

From: Jack Whitmrie jr
Date: 13-Jul-17




I have another but need to get pictures

From: Dean
Date: 13-Jul-17




Did you ask Larry Hatfield if he remembered the years and serial numbers?

From: crookedstix
Date: 13-Jul-17

crookedstix's embedded Photo



Here's one that passed through my collection...

From: Pdiddly
Date: 14-Jul-17




Thanks for the posts so far. Except for brianbfree's 2000 the rest postes with pics are 70's bows, relecting the rule on other Howatt models that from 1972 on the first digit in the serial number was the year in a particular decade a bow was built.

Before 1972 there was another identifier used, which seems to include that letter after the number, as in WalnutBill's bow.Would be nice to get more of those examples too.

Thanks again and keep them coming. Pearl Chilcott had a system for SD's as well and we will figure it out.

From: Pdiddly
Date: 14-Jul-17




Sorry...the person who labelled the bows was Pearl Chilcutt.

From: Mpdh
Date: 14-Jul-17




I think Bbfrees bow is a 1990.

MP

From: Pdiddly
Date: 14-Jul-17




Yes, you are right Mdph...tigerwood and laminate.

From: newt
Date: 14-Jul-17

newt's embedded Photo



Got a 'strange one' for ya. I bought this Super Diablo from a fella in Washington. It is in great shape and shoots "light out", but it does not have any DH logo, any Super Diablo signage, or any serial number. The fella I bought it from said he asked Larry Hatfield about this bow and Mr. Hatfield told him it was likely that the bowyer that built it, wanted it for his own, and was not able to put the logo's or serial number on the bow.??? Anyway, all it says is ESD-Rej & that it is 53#@ 28" and the amo is 60". Picture of the only info is attached. Do you suppose this is possible or the 'Rej' - means reject??

From: newt
Date: 14-Jul-17

newt's embedded Photo



Picture of Super Diablo recurve without a serial number or logo's.

From: larryhatfield
Date: 14-Jul-17




Probably late 60's, and yes, that would mean reject and a materials only price for the bowyer that bought it. He was not supposed to re-sell the bow! It could have been rejected for a myriad of reasons. Normally those were band sawed and tossed. I lost my papers on all the bows after the move to Walla Walla. Memories are too apt to be false, so I do not respond to many of these threads. The history seems to be in good hands. Good Job!!!

From: Pdiddly
Date: 15-Jul-17




Thank you for that information Larry...and for your support! Peter

From: larryhatfield
Date: 15-Jul-17




Oh, I replied to Walnut Bill about who Lou Kindred was on TradTalk. He was a great target archer from Rice Lake, Wisconsin who shot our bows, usually with a sight. Remember a newspaper article he sent in 1967 about the Wisconsin State Championships that was shot in the rain. Lou and the then currant Champ, Robert Gruny, tied with scores of 529 out of a possible 560.

From: Pdiddly
Date: 15-Jul-17




That's a very interesting bit of history Larry that provides some important provenance for WalnutBill's bow. Thanks for sharing!

From: Jack Hoyt Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 15-Jul-17

Jack Hoyt 's embedded Photo



Here is mine, I believe it is a 1964.

From: Jack Hoyt Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 16-Jul-17




On mine above the numbers look like ESa 3358 AMO 60". Great bows!

From: casekiska
Date: 16-Jul-17




My apologies to the originator of this thread if I'm not supposed to post comments about "other" Howatt models here. I just was not sure where this should go and thought some fellows might find this information interesting.

I have a 62", RH, 55 #, Martin Howatt Hunter bow, serial number 7880. The bow is in very good - excellent condition and is unique because it was the bow that ARCHERY WORLD magazine tested for a "Bow Report" in the September 1978 issue. Engineer and member of the Archery Hall Of Fame Norb Mullaney was conducting their tests back then and prepared a two and a half page report for the magazine. The testing was very thorough and complete and pretty much set the standard for such testing by other archery technical editors in later years.

Norb gifted the bow to me sometime ago and signed it with the note: "Good Shooting Bill - Norb Mullaney". He also gave me a copy of that 1978 issue of ARCHERY WORLD with the test results, and signed that too.

I own a number of bows and this is one of my favorites. It's a Howatt Hunter, it's probably around 40 years old, it was tested for ARCHERY WORLD, Norb once owned it, and it was passed along to me from Norb.

FYI - Norb passed away last fall, he was in his 90s. The Wisconsin archery community lost a valued member who will be missed for many years.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. Hope this info proved interesting for you.

From: larryhatfield
Date: 16-Jul-17




Curious about Norb's report? Did it perform well?

From: casekiska
Date: 16-Jul-17

casekiska's embedded Photo



Norb's note on the cover of the issue of ARCHERY WORLD magazine the Howatt Hunter "Bow Report" appeared in.

From: casekiska
Date: 16-Jul-17

casekiska's embedded Photo



The first page of Norb's article.

From: casekiska
Date: 16-Jul-17

casekiska's embedded Photo



Norb's second page

From: casekiska
Date: 16-Jul-17

casekiska's embedded Photo



Norb's final page.

From: casekiska
Date: 16-Jul-17




Larry, - Hope this answers your question/concerns. Just curious, were you involved in the making of this bow?

From: Pdiddly
Date: 16-Jul-17




Jack Hoyt...

The initial letters on your bow are ESD for Eldorado Super Diablo. The Super Diablo was not yet being made in 1964, just the Diablo. 1966 was the first year for the SD. The presence of the AMO length indicates tbe bow was built 1968 or later. I think your bow is likely, at the earliest, a 1973 from what I can see of the riser but I need to collect more pics and data just to be sure..

casekiska...thanks for sharing that article...will look at it on my laptop with a bigger screen. Nice bit of history...Hunters are a great bow!

From: Puma
Date: 16-Jul-17




Here's mine for the good of the order. A 1974 in laminated rosewood.

From: Puma
Date: 16-Jul-17

Puma's embedded Photo



Uh-oh. Why isn't the photo showing up?

From: Puma
Date: 16-Jul-17

Puma's embedded Photo



Let's try the serial number again...

From: cueman
Date: 16-Jul-17




Wow, that bow is just 3 bows later than mine. ESD 445C 60"

From: Pdiddly
Date: 16-Jul-17




Puma...your bow has that odd letter at the end and does not have AMO denoting the length so it is earlier than 1974 and likely before 1968. I suspect that the first number being a 4 has nothing to do with the year it was built and I also can't assume it was four bows after Kenny's due to his having a C and your's a B. The first number being the build year did not start until 1972 for the six other models we looked at. Once I have a complete list of all of those letters and see if there is some order to them I hope there will be a pattern that jumps out at me!

From: larryhatfield
Date: 16-Jul-17




Casekiska, I designed that bow and all the other Howatt bows since 1963. Thanks. Never read that article.

From: Pdiddly
Date: 16-Jul-17




Hi Larry: I think you were also part of the re-make of the Hunter in late 1961 early 1962 when you went to the all rosewood risers and double taoered limb laminations??

From: Puma
Date: 16-Jul-17




Peter-now you've really piqued my interest! Can't wait to see what you figure out. I've always had mild interest in a birth year bow, so I'll hope it turns out to be a '64. Regardless, it's still the best bow I've ever owned and I quietly thank Larry every time I pick it up

From: Pdiddly
Date: 16-Jul-17




Puma: Earliest it could be is a 1966...that is when the SD was introduced.

From: larryhatfield
Date: 17-Jul-17




I didn't take over all design until '63. The success of the hunter was what gave me the creds for that job.

From: T4halo
Date: 17-Jul-17

T4halo's embedded Photo



Here is my 77. Rosewood. Great shooter.

T4

From: T4halo
Date: 17-Jul-17

T4halo's embedded Photo



The riser.

T4

From: Danny
Date: 17-Jul-17

Danny's embedded Photo



Peter I have R and L. Hand .Maybe you could help with dates.Thanks Danny

From: Danny
Date: 17-Jul-17

Danny's embedded Photo



The risers

From: Danny
Date: 17-Jul-17

Danny's embedded Photo



Try again

From: Pdiddly
Date: 17-Jul-17




Thanks Danny... Is the number on the left hand bow ESDA 498G-60?

Looks like that to me but verifying.

From: Pdiddly
Date: 17-Jul-17




Larry commented:

"I didn't take over all design until '63. The success of the hunter was what gave me the creds for that job."

I would say that the 1961 Hunter re-design, both in form and function, was a landmark success! Certainly enough to prove you had what it took.

You took a really great bow and made it even better!

The other models that reflected that new look (Ventura, Diablo etc) also benefitted.

Cool stuff!

From: Danny
Date: 17-Jul-17




Peter the Left Hand bow #. ESDA 4986 G - 60

From: larryhatfield
Date: 17-Jul-17




Danny's bow is definitely made from East Indian Rosewood from Indonesia. Wonder if the "A" is the year and the "G" is the month? Or vice versa? January of 1966?

From: Pdiddly
Date: 17-Jul-17




Hi again Danny...I only see four characters 498 and then a G or is it a 6?

Can you take a pic a wee bit closer?

Thanks a bunch!

From: Pdiddly
Date: 18-Jul-17




I managed to enlarge and enhance the picture Danny so I have the serial number.

Your other bow is a 1972...AMO for the length so post 1968.

From: Draven
Date: 20-Feb-18

Draven's embedded Photo



Since is a topic about SD before 1990, here is mine. Serial Number

From: Draven
Date: 20-Feb-18

Draven's embedded Photo



And riser with a vintage Cobra camo hunting stab

From: Pdiddly
Date: 20-Feb-18




That's a 1989 Draven...

From: Draven
Date: 21-Feb-18




Yes, Thank you. Zebra wood and red elm limbs. My new "go to" bow, it's a sweet shooter.

From: Wapiti - - M. S. Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 21-Feb-18




Nice job on the history of these vintage bows Pdiddly. Sure like the 89 draven.

From: Ghostbow
Date: 21-Feb-18




Pdiddly is the man! Has helped me personally and in quick order.

From: Pdiddly
Date: 24-Feb-18




Wapiti and Ghostbow...thanks for the kind words but cueman and Larry Hatfield deserve as much recognition as me. Kenny spent a great deal of time digging up serial numbers and descriptions all over the internet and Larry's memories of when one model started and another ended confirmed the data.

Crookedstix had his fingers in the pie by constantly saying that the third letter suffix had a consistent meaning...once the numbers were put to paper (and all prior theories were discarded) the numbers and letters told their story.

And we could not have cracked the code without everyone posting pics of their Howatt's numbers for the database.

A group effort..all of us are better than any of us!!

Peter

From: reddogge
Date: 24-Feb-18

reddogge's embedded Photo



Here's the one I used to own.

From: fdp
Date: 24-Feb-18




I'll have to pull mine out tomorrow and get the number off of it.

From: larryhatfield
Date: 24-Feb-18




I made the first iteration of the early sixties Super D out of a large maple blank. Dale Marcy bought it from me at an Archery Golf tournament because I was outshooting him at every hole. Wish I had kept it.

From: Pdiddly
Date: 25-Feb-18




That's a really neat story Larry...buy the bow that's kicking' your butt!

That bow would have been very interesting to see in solid maple.

Back in July 2017 you mentioned that the extra letters in the Super Diablo might be months.

This would seem to be the most logical reason, even though the SD would be the only model where the months seemed to be tracked.

Darton, Cravotta Brothers and Shakepeare kept track of the months they built bows from the beginning in all models. That was not the case with Howatt but there may be an exception with the Super D.

Here's what I have so far for SD numbers between 1966 and 1971. The suffix letters (there are 11 so far) are close to the numbers in terms of the month but there are anomalies. The letters and numbers don't have a firm sequence.

Every other 1961-1971 model of Howatt has serial numbers for each model that go from 1 to 9999 and then start over, with no reset at the beginning of the year. That happened in 1972.

For the SD's, what is noteworthy is that every serial number, no matter what year, begins with a "4" and there is no number that has more than three digits. That is unique.

If the number "4" is discarded then the two digits left could represent monthly production, which would explain the increase numbers not matching the order of the letters.

I'll wait to see what other think...the sample size is still very, very small.

Super Diablos

Note: Some SD's have an extra suffix letter.

Letter so far are A, B, C, F, G, H, I, K, P, Q, U, (X perhaps)

ESD 409-A

ESD 448-B Dalbergia

ESD 445-C Dalbergia

1966-67

ESDA 401-Q

ESDA 415-P Dalbergia

ESDA 459 I

ESDA 470 H

ESDA 494 I

ESDA 498 G

1968-69

ESDO 455-U (AMO)

ESDO 475. U (AMO)

1970-71

ESDP 47-B EIR (AMO)

ESDP 412-K

ESDP 417-B (AMO)

ESDP 445-K (X?)

ESDP 460-F (AMO)

From: Pdiddly
Date: 25-Feb-18




Hmmm...the letters have some cyclic order.

There are only A, B and C letters in the first group which would be early 1966.

Then the letters G, H, I , P and Q in 1966-67.

Then U in 1968-69.

Then B, F, K in 1970-71. ( The EIR letters in the first 1970-71 bow are also very different)

From: cueman
Date: 25-Feb-18




Peter, the EIR stands for East Indian Rosewood and is not actually on the bow, I was just denoting the wood it was made from. ESDP 47-B is one of mine.

Interesting to note, the Super diablo and the Del Rey are the only 2 bows that Howatts used the suffix on. After looking at quite a few Del Rey's, they also apear to follow the same numbering pattern, ELE(prefix for year) A 3 digit number starting with 0 and 2 digits probably for monthly run and then have the Suffix. Such as ELEX 007 J (63 year) ELES 035 K (64 year) ELET 055 L (65 year)

Any bow after 72 follows the same pattern with no prefix or suffix. The very early Del Rey bows from 61 had no prefix or suffix until the slash 7 year designator came into use in late 61. This is the same way the Super Diablo was introduced, no prefix for year on the earliest bows in my opinion.

Both of these bows were special order only and were probably built in very low numbers.

From: Pdiddly
Date: 25-Feb-18




Great points Kenny...I had forgotten about the Del Rey and just clued into the EIR! DUH!!

It would be interesting to hear from Larry on the level of production of Super D's back then compared to other models like the Hunter. I bet they were lower.

I think there may be more of those suffix letters out there besides the 11 we have confirmed. The reason I have a question mark on the "X" is that it could have been a "K".

Hopefully some more of the good folks on the LW will share their pre-1972 Super Diablo and other model's serial numbers.

From: stonyloam
Date: 10-Jun-18

stonyloam's embedded Photo



Great thread! Just got mine out of the basement and put a new string on it. I bought it sometime in the late 70s.

From: stonyloam
Date: 10-Jun-18

stonyloam's embedded Photo



Great thread! Just got mine out of the basement and put a new string on it. I bought it sometime in the late 70s.

From: stonyloam
Date: 10-Jun-18

stonyloam's embedded Photo



OK somehow managed to screw this up. Here is the sn.

From: stonyloam
Date: 10-Jun-18

stonyloam's embedded Photo



OK somehow managed to screw this up. Here is the sn.

From: Pdiddly
Date: 10-Jun-18




It's a 1973...thanks for the pics.

From: stonyloam
Date: 10-Jun-18




Thanks Pdiddly! I must have bought it in 75, I have my buddies PSE compound that he bought at the same time. Compounds sure have come a long way, the Diablo is timeless!

From: cacciatore Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 11-Jun-18

cacciatore's embedded Photo



From: Pdiddly
Date: 11-Jun-18




is it a rosewood riser cacciatore?

From: cacciatore Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 12-Jun-18




It looks that I can’t post more pics.

From: cacciatore Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 12-Jun-18

cacciatore's embedded Photo



From: cacciatore Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 12-Jun-18

cacciatore's embedded Photo



From: cacciatore Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 12-Jun-18

cacciatore's embedded Photo



From: Pdiddly
Date: 12-Jun-18




46# is a 1974 and the other is a 1973...even though they were first made in 1966 most of the bows I see are 1972-1975...they were very popular then.

From: cacciatore Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 12-Jun-18




Thanks so much for the dating

From: crookedstix
Date: 12-Jun-18

crookedstix's embedded Photo



Here is a rosewood Super Diablo, #ESD 6158, which passed through my hands very briefly.

From: Pdiddly
Date: 12-Jun-18




A 1976...even with the advent of wheel bows Super Diablo's endured.

From: Brad Lehmann
Date: 12-Jun-18

Brad Lehmann's embedded Photo



ESD 2587

From: jrh24
Date: 12-Jun-18

jrh24's embedded Photo



Peter, here is mine. '73 i believe. Great shooting bow.

From: jrh24
Date: 12-Jun-18

jrh24's embedded Photo



Riser





If you have already registered, please

sign in now

For new registrations

Click Here




Visit Bowsite.com A Traditional Archery Community Become a Sponsor
Stickbow.com © 2003. By using this site you agree to our Terms and Conditions and our Privacy Policy