Fellows I have been trying for years to get my arrows to Bareshaft. I happened to watch a YouTube video bt a group called S3 archery. I followed his method of bareshafting and it worked great. I had no luck trying to get my bareshafts to hit where my fletched shafts hit. Following this method I no longer need feathers

So... do your arrows and bare shafts group together now?

Yes. But only because I took one arrow and got it to fly straight and in the bullseye. Before my fletched shafts would be in the bullseye while the bare shafts would be left or right.,

I am so glad you finally got it but there was noting new there. Congratulations.>>>-----> Ken

what a troll you are lol

reel em in baby lol

Actually I am not trolling. (this time) LOL. I have actually really struggled with the trying to get the fletched feathers and raw shafts flying together. I could get them hitting in the same spot but the raw shafts flew ugly. I mean ugly. When I used the nock left and right method of bareshafting I could then get my raw shafts to fly perfect. I mean perfect. I start at 3 yards. Actually watch the video by S3 archery. I know that is not the way it is supposed to be done because all the died in the wool guys use the other method. Start at 3 yards and then move back 3 yards at a time and adjust at you go. Nock left equals under spine. Nock right equals overspine. I can now shoot a bareshaft at any distance at don't need feathers. Now I know the end result is the same but it was easier for me to use this method. I think I was just too dumb to use the other method.

Babysaph,

That is probably the best video I have seen on bare-shafting, he makes it easy to understand and follow. As far as all the poo poo! you might get on this subject, I have been shooting a set of arrows for over six months all bareshaft and grouping them in a 4 inch circle and they enter the target absolutely straight and parallel to each other, I just finished them and installed the fletching last week because it seemed to bother some folks that they didn't have feathers on them....Ha!Ha!

Bare-shafting is easy if you pay attention to what you are doing and follow this video......Thanks John for posting the video.

That's a different method than my interpretation of using bareshafts (along with fletched shafts) but I imagine it gives you the same result.

I never heard of anyone using a hand saw to cut carbons. Wow! Can't see how that would make a clean cut. Anyone out there use a hand saw?

The arrows I saw were wood, because he tapered the end for the point.

Glad you got it that is what counts. How ever the video is hokey.He said he was going to remove 1/16. Do you know the width of a hand saw blade? Plus the taper on the arrows is at least 1/2" They were wood thus increasing the chance of tuning with one bad arrow. Oh Well. It is what it is. No one cuts arrows on the results of one shot,or risks tuning on one arrow. The distance is entirely too close to tell you any thing. I just shot a group yesterday just to prove a point, with Bamboo arrows,cedar,and carbon. Total weight varied over 100 gr. Point weight varied to 100 grains on like shafts,some fletched,some bare shaft. Spine 500 and 600. You can shoot most any thing at 10 yards and under. He seems to be a good shot perhaps he does a lot of off camera work. Watch his slow motion videos. His hand flops out 6" to 8" from his face then comes to a classic pose with finger tips touching the back of his shoulder-- --AFTER THE ARROW HAS ALREADY HIT THE TARGET. Hummmm Yes Hokey but if it worked for you where Jim, mine,and others advice didn't. Great. Fact is if the bare and fletched don't hit together they are not tuned.<----<<< Ken

Always use an arrow cut off saw or an equivalent on carbons and aluminums. On carbons you will need to trim from the nock end.

Only hand saw I ever used on carbons is the xacto razor saw with fine tooth blade. BUT the blades do not last long compared to when I used the saw to cut Aluminum shafts. I prefer my $25 Harbor Frieght cut off saw these days.

2Bears,

Yes, his form looked weird and he would say he was going to cut off 1/16th or 1/8th and then come back said he had cut off 1/4"-1/2" :) But his results looked good.

Shooting bareshaft isn't easy. 10 yards is plenty for most people. I check mine out to 40 if I am having a good day (and have a good backstop!!). If you haven't practiced it, you will usually find out your form isn't clean. And you might convince yourself that it doesn't matter,

I carry 5 fletched and one bare shaft when I practice. When I shoot groups, I shoot a bare shaft last. It keeps me from shooting sloppy and and I'll see if my tune has shifted.

thats the one. Thanks for posting. It worked for me. Imma kick my friends butts this weekend with no feathers.

thats the one. Thanks for posting. It worked for me. Imma kick my friends butts this weekend with no feathers.

I never got the same result at all. I could get the feathered arrows and bareshafts to group and shoot in the same spot but the bareshafts flew terrible

my bareshafts and feathered shafts now hit together. But my bareshafts fly great. before they didnt.

Oh i agree. You have to have good form and a good release. Some guys can't do that. With the grouping method it wouldn't matter because the arrows fly terrible until you get the bareshaft flying straight. I still say it matters and the bareshaft has to fly straight

Oh i agree. You have to have good form and a good release. Some guys can't do that. With the grouping method it wouldn't matter because the arrows fly terrible until you get the bareshaft flying straight. I still say it matters and the bareshaft has to fly straight. And I don't care if he nawed the arrows off with his teeth. That method worked for me

I just try to stay in the ballpark and not get obsessed with it. I am still adjusting my technique all the time anyway. Then when it's close to hunting season, I'll dial in that setup

Very good video.

He did say at one point in the video to take multiple shots to make sure a good or bad indication is not an anomaly. There seems to be two techniques for tuning. Bare shaft tuning and bare shaft planing. The term bare shaft tuning seems to be used for both techniques. One technique shoots one arrow and observes the arrows orientation in the target. The other shoots multiple arrows both fletched and non fletched. When both fletched and non fletched group together you have found the right arrow. I have always seen this referred to as bare shaft planing. The documentation on the ACS website specifically points out to disregard the angle of the arrow in the target. All that matters is that the arrows both fletched and non fletched group together. We can agree to disagree all day. Personally I feel if you can get a bare shaft to fly straight at hunting distances and hit where your aiming you've done something right.

JSD I agree 100% and your last statement is gold. The bare shaft will point out the truth. If your selection is close to start with.Mine always has been with charts and calculator. Frankly I have never had a wood,bamboo,river cane,aluminium,or carbon miss the bag or hit sideways and break shafts. I don't know how far off they have to be to do that. Maybe I am just lucky with setups.

Catsailor your last sentence is dead on.

babysaph You said your bare shaft and fletched were grouping together but bare shaft was flying bad before and good now. Sounds like an opportunity for me to learn something new. Would you explain what is different now with your bow, arrows, or tune.That is something I haven't seen before. When both hit the same out to as far as I am accurate and can hold a group,that is as well tuned as I can get and as good of flight as I can get. Thanks. Always looking for improvement.>>-->Ken

How can you disregard the way the arrows are in the target? That is robbing energy and in no way can be as tuned as an arrow that is dead straight. I have found that once that one arrow is flying dead straight then putting feathers on them has then all flying straight and hitting in the same place. Again I can get arrows and bare shafts to group together but the bare shafts are not flying staight which means they are robbing energy. I do back up and shoot multiple arrows and see where they hit and lo and behold I did have to trim a lil more off as I went back. But man do they fly good now. I see no need for feathers with field points. that is no joke. They are flying that good.

"How can you disregard the way the arrows are in the target?" Because a bag target for instance can have a weak spot in it. You can see the arrow nock on the way to the target show stiff and in the target show weak.

I don't want to say that video is so wrong on so many counts, but let's just use his choice of wood arrows. It probably takes wood twice as long as carbon to recover. So it's easier to do what he did. Most here shoot carbon.

Plus he chose an arrow that was in his ball park to tune - NO RISK OF A FALSE POSITIVE. You use this method and have a 40 pound bow tuning a .340 arrow you may be inclined to put a bullet in you head from frustration. I'm not saying that you can get a false positive with impacts, but it's pretty rare.

I'm not saying this won't work. It does, but as above can lead to frustration. There's three ways to tune Impacts (bare shaft planing), the above - bare shaft tuning, and paper tuning. All three have to agree to have a perfectly tuned arrow.

You guys that got your bare shafts to impact with fletched, but still had bad bare shaft flight, neglected to take a few twist out of your bow string or put a few twist in, depending on right or left arrow kick.

SAVE THAT BULLET FOR SOMEONE WHO BREAKS INTO YOUR HOME!!! First tune with impact and then get the bare shaft to fly straight. Paper tuning will always be correct.

My major problem with the process in the video is there was no mention of broadhead tuning. If you go through the ACS site AND click on 'download printable version' you have it all finishing with broadhead tuning. I don't think I ever tuned with impacts and then got the BS to fly straight that the big 160 Snuffer didn't fly straight.

I agree with 2 Bears, JSD and Catsailor.

Bowmania

Sorry folks forgot my photo, These tuned up pretty quick, tapered cedars 30.375" BOP, spined 45 to 50 tip 100 grain. shot from a 30lb bow, the spine was not for this bow but it shows you that you can work with length and tip weight and make it work.

Has anyone felt the need to bare shaft WOOD ARROWS???

I shot, bought custom, and built my own for only about 10 years, so I'm no expert. I have never not had my arrows tuned by telling the arrowsmith my weight, draw length, arrow length, pt weight, string, cut to center etc and shooting what he suggests.

So you spend a hundred plus dollars on a doz custom wood arrows. I guess S3 Archery wants you to cut off the feathers of one arrow to tune it????????????????????????

I have a better suggestion, it's called IMPACT TUNING or bare shaft planing. Here's what you do with your custom arrows. Put a broadhead on a couple and an equal weight field point on a couple. Shoot 'em. If the arrowsmith made a mistake the broadhead will be left or right of the field point. Tune the broadhead as if it was a bare shaft. Pretty simple.

Bowmania

Black Widow (Ken Beck() has a very good vidieo on bare shaft planing with good photography

babysaph I am not sure your answer was directed at me. I don't disregard arrow position. I use ever thing available like Bowmania. Just trying to keep it semi brief. If you notice the block was full of arrow holes. Using a single shaft what if the arrow hits a previous hole? What if it hit that hole on the edge or at a slightly different angle.One wood arrow,what if it had a little different spine in one direction,or a weak spot,maybe a slight bend???? You have the concept now. Use more that one fletched and more that one bare shaft before cutting a dozen arrows.Work your way out to 20 yards min. The same adjustments that get them to fly right,also get them to group together.I would still like to know what the difference in your set up is that caused them to group together but fly bad and the set up that makes them group and fly good? Can you duplicate it? Can you tell me so I can duplicate it? Maybe the guy in the video can but the video is still hokey.The guy isn't wrong he just left a lot out. Watch Ken Becks for a better video.No argument here we are talking about the same thing.I have done this for near 60 years and have instructed many how to tune but I am still interested in learning and I will be 76 this year.>>-->Ken

I appreciate the guy making the video and sharing what he knows. Its hard to criticize someone who's at least trying to share and be helpful, he seems like a friendly-type guy. However, I agree with Ken and Todd. The target medium can indeed cause an arrow to stick in the target at an angle when it was indeed flying straight. I don't pay any attention to how it looks in the target, but where it hits in the target. In good light it's not hard to see if it's flying weak or stiff while on it's way. And whats up with his release? That's a funky, sling your hand out and backward type release! Seems it would be rather difficult to get consistent form with that wave going on. Anyhow...I'm glad the method worked for babysaph, and I guess the proof is in the pudding for him, but that's not the way I bare shaft tune. And I don't think 10 yards is enough distance to really know whats going on with your shaft flight.

Whatever works for ya baby. I don't bareshaft. If my fletched arrows fly straight into my spot I'm good. I don't worry about how perfect they might be. ymmv

I call BS!! Guy as far as I am concerned has no clue. Again, just listen to some of the statements. 1/16th wont make a bit of difference and most guys form is not good enough to tell a half an inch!! Again BS!! Thanks for wasting my time! Shawn

"And I don't think 10 yards is enough distance to really know whats going on with your shaft flight."

Depends how bad your problem is!

If the spine is pretty close, the shots have got to be pretty far.

But FWIW, a vertical line down the middle of your target should make things clear to anyone with half a brain. Hell, it even worked on ME! What greater challenge could there be???

Bowmania. I took that part out if the equation

Well it worked for me. Sorry I brought it up.

Good for you Babysaph it works for you then that's all that matters. Another good video is from Black Widow very easy/simple to do.

A reminder about cutting carbon and aluminum shafts? Remember to have some kind of vacuum device to take care of the dust. Especially with the carbons. The dust is BAD for Your Lungs! I don't know if wood will cause that problem or not? Just sayin'

If it works baby, good for ya. More'n one way to skin a cat.

>>>"And I don't think 10 yards is enough distance to really know whats going on with your shaft flight." Depends how bad your problem is! <<<

Agreed. I've seen w-a-y stiff shafts miss the entire target at 10 yards. However, with the information out today (unlike 20 years ago) I'd like to think a guy can buy some shafts that are at least "in the ballpark" for his bow. Lots of info out there for a new traditional archer to read up on to educate him/herself to get within reason on shafts. Then it's a matter of tuning those to peak performance. 20-30 yards bareshaft flight will tell you a lot about whats going on.

I agree. I am shooting mine at 40 yards

I have to agree that 10 yards isn't far enough to get a good tune. You could get lucky and it might work but most times probably not. I usually start at 10 yards and work back to maybe 35. I never agreed with the method of shooting bare and fletched shafts together. If your form is clean enough you can get an under spined fletched arrows to impact the center of a dot at 20 yards while the bare shaft is gonna impact to the right. Both methods work and have the same end result but really no need to shoot the fletched shaft until that bare shaft is already hitting center line. Then of course the final test is checking one with a broad head .

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