From: RonG
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Date: 09-Jun-17 |
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Hey folks, I haven't had much sleep for the last five days so if this question seems odd then I take full blame.
I have a set of arrows that are over spined for my bow, so I just left them long and installed a 100 grain point, they shoot straight bareshaft so basically they are tuned to the bow, I can put all of them in a 4 inch circle at twenty yards.
Normally I would leave them alone, but I keep getting these, why are your arrows so long?....Now would I gain anything by shortening the arrows and installing heavier points to set the spine correctly to my bow. I can see lightening the arrow by shortening it but you add it back with a heavier point. This is for target not hunting.
What is this thing about shortening arrows to the bare minimum......?..Thank you for your answers......Ron
I could research this like I do everything, but I prefer the knowledge on the leatherwall.
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From: aromakr
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Date: 09-Jun-17 |
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Ron: When you shorten an arrow you stiffen the spine, and it will depend on how the shelf of your bow is cut, to know if it will effect your tune. With a shelf that is cut past center you MIGHT get away with it. And with a 100 grain point they can't be that stiff or over spined. With more information maybe we can help.
Bob
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 09-Jun-17 |
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Arrow length is your concern only. If you let someone else chide you into changing what works, then that's a whole 'nother issue. Personally I spine my arrows from the get-go for the length I want them. I don't buy them stiff and have to let them long. That never made sense to me but it seems to be a popular thing with carbon arrow shooters.
If you cut them off, then you have to increase tip weight exponentially. That usually means more tip weight versus loss of length than is equally relative. In other words, If you cut two inches off an arrow, you will lose about 16 to 20 grains probably tops with carbon, but you will have to add fifty to a hundred grains more to create the flex you lost. So you have a shorter but much heavier arrow. If that suits you, you haven't lost anything but a little arrow speed. Or you could ignore what others say about your arrows. What business is it of theirs other than to know you do things differently than they do.
If you really want shorter arrows, then you just cut them shorter and tune with heavier points. It's all personal. As I said, my arrows are only an inch longer than my draw. I've done it that way for over fifty years now so I'm pretty happy with that. My choice though, nothing more or less.
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From: Linecutter
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Date: 09-Jun-17 |
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I assume you have brass inserts to go with that 100gr point? Actually you may gain arrow weight by cutting it shorter. Why I say that is because you may have to use a lot more weight up front to compensate for the stiffness by you cutting the shaft shorter, causing an overall increase in arrow weight. Not knowing how many grains per inch your shafts are but we'll say 10gr/inch. If you cut 3 inches off your present shaft you would you would lose 30gr in shaft weight, but because of the increase in stiffness you may have to go up 100grs (or more) in point weight, giving you a net gain in 70grs in total arrow weight. Thing is if they are flying well it doesn't matter how long your arrows are. Maybe when you go to buy shafts next time maybe go to a lighter spine shaft and cut it shorter if you want a shorter arrow, but you would have to retune to get it to where it would need to be. There are always trade offs when changing things. DANNY
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From: RonG
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Date: 09-Jun-17 |
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Thanks Bob, My arrows are spined 45 to 50 tapered cedars (5/16 to 11/32) shooting a 30lb Tamerlane target bow with a magnetic rest, they are almost full length with a 100 grain point, they shoot great, just wondering if I would gain anything by shortening them to lets say 29" and installing maybe a 175 to 225 grain point to make up for shortening the arrow or what ever it takes.
I don't really need to know what I need to do as much as I need to know if I would gain anything by doing this on a target arrow, or basically why do people keep asking me why I shoot long arrows. Is there something wrong with shooting long arrows?
I'm using these arrows because I had them for another bow that had a higher draw weight that I don't use anymore and just wanted to try them out.
Thank you Bob..........Ron
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From: jmullins
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Date: 09-Jun-17 |
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If they shoot well, why change them?
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From: aromakr
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Date: 09-Jun-17 |
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Ron: Those that asking why you shoot such a long arrow are OLD SCHOOL archers, personally I like an arrow as short as I can use safely. I believe a shorter arrow recovers faster than a long one. Almost full length doesn't tell me much, but 45/50 on woods would be AMO standard meaning they are 45/50@28" they will weaken 5# for every inch over 28. So if they are say 30" BOP they will spine 35/40. If you draw length is 28 try cutting one to 29" and add a 145 grain point, you will probably be fine. Without knowing specifics I can't tell you more than this.
Bob
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From: JustSomeDude
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Date: 09-Jun-17 |
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Ron G,
You will gain arrow weight. Take the weight of the cedar you cut off and subtract that from the 75-125grn you think you will add and check your GPP.
Adding 75-110 grn on a 30# bow is a substantial GPP difference and you will have to relearn your shot.
What is your arrow weight now?
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From: Orion
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Date: 09-Jun-17 |
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Hmmmm. A lot of target shooters, particularly gap shooters, want the arrow as long as possible to reduce the size of the gap they use.
If your arrows are shooting well for you, why change them? Given that you already have a fairly light point, shortening the arrow will likely require more added point weight than the amount of wood weight reduced, leading to a heavier arrow, which you don't really want for target shooting.
That being said, I agree with Bob's recommendation if you want to shorten the shafts -- 29 inches and a 145 grain head will about be a wash regarding overall weight..
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From: JusPassin
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Date: 09-Jun-17 |
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I've seen guys with extra long arrows who could put the tip on the spot at 20 yards for shooting 300 rounds.
I'm mainly a hunter though I dabble in some competitions. My arrows are all cut exactly the same length. I have the exact same "view" at full draw regardless of setup. I tune via spine, tip weight, and mainly arrow plate and brace height.
Bottom line is it's your call.
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From: RonG
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Date: 09-Jun-17 |
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Thank you everyone for the expert advice, I tuned the arrows to fit the bow, of course if I were to get new arrows I would reduce the spine to fit the bow.
someone commented on why do I shoot such a long arrow and It bugged me so I thought I would ask, maybe I was missing something.
Now I know if someone asks me why I'm shooting such a long arrow, I will just say, why aren't you.....Ha!Ha!
Sorry Bob, they are around 30.375" BOP My question was answered,
Thank you Bob, George, Bruce, Jerry, John, Jeffrey, and Danny. I appreciate the help on this.....Ron
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From: BATMAN
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Date: 09-Jun-17 |
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@ RON? If the arrows are shooting well out of any bow that You use then no need to change things because OTHER people don't understand. I think that Your answer about " WHY AREN'T YOU?" will move the conversation along! How about? "YOU SHOOT YOUR WAY and I'LL SHOOT MY WAY!" (Vive la difference!)
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From: H Rhodes
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Date: 09-Jun-17 |
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Your arrows bareshaft a 4" group at 20. My two cents, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Leave them be. You will blend in with the young carbon shooters that have six inches of arrow sticking past the back of their bows.
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From: The Whittler
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Date: 09-Jun-17 |
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Next time someone ask you about your arrow length just tell them : have you heard the old saying if it ain't broke.....:
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From: Murray Seratt
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Date: 10-Jun-17 |
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I would have just replied, "Because I like long arrows."
Murray
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From: RonG
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Date: 10-Jun-17 |
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Thanks Guys, as I said originally these were for another bow but wanted to use some on a lesser weight bow, so I tuned them to the weaker unfortunately the arrows have to be long in order to not be stiff.
What I didn't understand is why someone would question why my arrows were too long, I just thought maybe I was missing something.
Like aromakr stated that he likes them short because they recover from archers paradox quicker. Most of my arrows stick out past my hand at least 1.5 inches BOP I may try to get them shorter and mess with the point weight to see if they shoot any better, see you learn something even if it differs from your original question.
That's funny H Rhodes
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From: StikBow
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Date: 10-Jun-17 |
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''I paid for 30 inch arrows, and I will use what I paid for"
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From: longbowguy
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Date: 10-Jun-17 |
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aromaker is right about minimum length for perfect tune and highest speed. But there are other considerations like sight picture gap as mentioned above. Me, I leave my cedar shafts about 2" overlength, which with my longish draw is full length. I use 100 grain points for my match arrows. The over length and those points give me the point-on range and sight picture I prefer.
Eventually some of those arrow break off a the back of the point. I save those until I have a dozen or more then I cut a new shortish taper and replace the points. The shoot very nearly the same and I use them for practice and general archery. When they break again I retaper them again, put on 125 grain points and shoot them with their mates. This way I get three lives of my match grade shafts.
During this third life they may get broadheads and become my premium grade hinting arrows. - lbg
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From: Longtrad
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Date: 11-Jun-17 |
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I like short arrows as they handle better for me out of my back quiver and offer me a higher amount of FoC, it took a bit of tinkering but I have found out what works well in a carbon arrow for me and don't have too much trouble tuning them to be 1" longer than my draw while still being within the 9-11 gpp threshold. I dont understand the idea that carbons need to be long... you can tune them any way you like, just like any other shaft material.... in the end it all comes down to dynamic spine requirements.
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From: RonG
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Date: 11-Jun-17 |
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longbowguy, now that is recycling to it's extreme, I do also but usually only twice since I don't hunt anymore.
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From: String Cutter
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Date: 11-Jun-17 |
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I like my arrows full length. They have my point just a few inches low of where I want to hit at 20 yards... If I cut a couple inches off I start shooting over my targets back using the same point of aim...then I have to start thinking where to put my point...and that is over a foot lower then I want to hit..... Hard to pick a spot between a deers legs.
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From: RonG
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Date: 13-Jun-17 |
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K Cummings.....LOL!!!!!!
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