Any input on why some may feel that way about there bows?

There several reasons. In some instances it has to do with the fact that their bow shoots quieter and with less handshock/vibration when shooting heavier arrows. Some feel that way due to the louder "thump" sound typically made when heavier arrows hit targets. Sometimes is has to do with the fact that heavier arrows seem to shoot more accurately for some folks. Mostly due to being less affected by flaws in form, tuning, etc. due to increased physical weight.

Now here's the $1,000,000 question...what IS a heavy arrow?

Not sure if I can give a reason why but I shoot a 52# Morrison ILF and use 340's with weighted inserts and a 175 grain tip up front. They fly like a dart and penetrate the foam 3D targets at least buy an inch more than anyone that I shoot with. Also I get a complete pass threw on most of the game I shoot at.

I have alittle less handshock but the noise is quite similar.

2216s (580gr.) vs. GT Trad. 500s (450gr.) out of a 48# bow.

My heavy arrow seems somewhat more accurate at 15-17 yards.

Which the arrow would stay connected to the riser longer if they are both tuned perfectly?

What do you mean by "connected to the riser longer"? Are you asking which will leave the string the quickest?

No - which arrow comes off the riser first.

Well, there should be no appreciable difference. I THINK you mean which one comes off the string first? As a general rule any arrow regardless of weight or length leaves the string at the same distance of travel.

There also shouldn't be any appreciable difference in which arrow clears the riser first given same length arrows.

Some bows are designed to excel with heavy arrows. I played around with my Covert Hunter and found that as I got above 9 gpp, the % increase in weight did not corresponde to the same % of lost velocity. Likely if the bow us designed as a hunting bow, this will hold true for others as well.

My non-scientific observations are that my bows generally shoot with less noise and vibration if my arrows weigh somewhere in the 500/540 grain range. I've never tried any arrows heavier than 540 grains. The lightest arrow I've tried was 410 grains. My go to shaft comes in at 525 +/- grains. I'm drawing 45# at 28", both recurve and r/d longbow. I've found that 525 grain arrow to be a good balance between weight and speed/drop. I shoot that 525 grain shaft a lot and I know what it does at different distances within my comfortable shooting range of 25/30 yards.

Heavy arrows are NOT more accurate. As fdp said, They cover up your flaws. Just like heavy bows.

Shooting very light arrows is a great way to see your bow torque issues (assuming your bow can handle light arrows).

JSD....that's what I said. "Mostly due to being less affected by flaws in form, tuning, etc, due to increased physical weight".

Stored energy is stored energy. Changing from a light weight arrow to a heavy one does not all of the sudden make a bow more efficient.

JSD...disregard. I had a brief lapse in my understanding of words and punctuation in English writing. :)

How does a heavy arrow cover up shooting flaws?

I'm a better shot with heavy arrows.

Some bow designs do not slow down as much as others when shooting heavier arrows. With in reason a faster bow will always be faster as arrow weight goes up, but with ASL longbows the difference narrows as arrow weights go up when compared with some recurves. The problem is that when shooting soft arrows they do not get heavier as quick as they get stiffer, so that option is very limited, since ASLs do not like radically over spined arrows. With my former heavy longbows and shooting cedar arrows, there were often times that I was shooting barely over 7 gpp.

Plain and simple a heavy arrow gets more energy out of the bow.

"Heavy arrows are NOT more accurate. As fdp said, They cover up your flaws." Making them more accurate.

Years ago I was reading the Ashby Reports and he was talking about fletching. He said an arrow with EFOC does not need much fletching in the rear. The weight up front makes the rear follow.

Very similar to that statement. If you have an arrow that weights 600 grains and one that weighs 500, what ever your talking about form flaw, cross wind, etc, it's just going to take more to move the 600 grain arrow off course.

That's info concerning l and r. Take a light arrow and the trajectory is less of a factor. Which brings up the age old archery statement - what ever you do to one side of the fence, you loose on the other side of the fence.

Since I can't control cross wind, I'd call the heavier arrow more accurate. If I had to choose.

Bowmania

That isn't more accurate. It is less precise. A bow/arrow that is 'more forgiving' does so at the expense of taking away some of the precision. So it's a question of how much precision you need and how much forgiveness you need.

"Stored energy is stored energy. Changing from a light weight arrow to a heavy one does not all of the sudden make a bow more efficient."

Depends on design; Larry said so.

"How does a heavy arrow cover up shooting flaws?"

Inertia - its harder to bump/torque it off course, and during the stroke, there has to be some weather-vaning effect due to the added mass hanging off of that string. The dampen some oscillation as the arrow clears the string

Thanks for the replies.

Struggling - a form flaw (poor release, torque, dropped arm) should equally act upon a heavy arrow as a lighter arrow.

Which brings back to the question which arrow comes free of the riser first?

The heavy arrow or the lighter arrow?

even if the heavy arrow stays on the string longer it is less affected by a flaw.. think jerking the lanyard on a 105 howitzer vs a .22 at 200 yds. a slight jerk will throw a 4lb .22 way off . the platform and the projectiles are more stable on the 105. that's extream, but heavy projectile on most if not all levels are more stable than light, it simply takes more force to move them off course...ron

All bows shoot quieter and with less handshock with a heavier arrow. The heavier the limbs, the more difference there is. The heavier the riser, the less noticeable the handshock difference is. So, in a Hill style longbow, you'll notice the advantages of a heavier arrow. In a takedown recurve, maybe not. The tradeoff, obviously, is a loss of speed, which translates into increased trajectory.

Something else I have learned...some handshock is shooter induced. Plucking, pulling the bow out of line vertically and/or horizontally and tourquing the bow is (I THINK) a large portion of what people think is hand shock.

My TradTech ILF is substantially quieter since I've cleaned up my shooting. I had limbsavers on it and Velcro in the grooves etc...didn't need any of that

Daven it would be the arrow that is moving the fastest away from the string/riser. Although as I n=mentioned before that difference is insignificant.

maybe its the archer that likes the heavy arrow,, sometimes I feel like the heavy arrow is a bit more forgiving of my release,, I shoot wood bows,, so sometimes, the heavy arrow will just come off the bow quieter,, I think the bow would shoot the lighter arrow just fine, if I had a better release,, if I have a bow with a little hand shock, the heavy arrow will reduce that a bit,,, if I shoot consistantly better groups with the heavy arrow, than lighter arrow, I go with heavy arrow,, I can shoot out to 50 yards stump shooting with heavy arrow,, so whatever the bow,,, or me likes is what I go with,,:) not so much about the weight, but what shoots best,,,,

So, if I understand this correctly, you release the string, and in doing so, the energy released by the bow, is imparted thru the string into the arrow. It then sails to the target, and upon the hitting the target the remaining energy is transferred from the arrow into the target.

The heavier the arrow, the more it absorbs bow energy. In fact I have found the magical 10gpp is way too light for me. 12 gpp is minimum. I don't like the 'boing' feel or sound of lighter arrows than 10 gpp. I actually like 14 gpp and even heavier. 25 gpp is too heavy though. Trajectory gets really bad.

All about balancing priorities and making wise choices.

What's funny to me is the guys who shoot ultralight arrows and then have to add vibration dampeners to the limbs and catwhiskers to the string in order to get their bow as quiet as it would be if they just shot a heavier arrow to begin with, and the velocity difference is too little to matter.

Somebody said earlier that a bow at full draw stores just so much energy; that's true. But why anyone would want to transfer that energy into the riser rather than launch it through the air and plow it into the target is beyond me!

" if they just shot a heavier arrow to begin with, and the velocity difference is too little to matter."

Too little to matter to whom? My point on changes significantly with a 50 grain difference in arrow weight. If you are hitting a dinner plate inside of 15 yards, sure...but if you are shooting 15 yards, why do you want 14 gpp+?

Dean, "Some bow designs do not slow down as much as others when shooting heavier arrows. "

You've got it backwards. Some bow designs don't get faster with lighter arrows and it is because they are inefficient. And I do love Longbows and Selfbows. But they are slow.

Stored energy has nothing to do with a light arrow or heavy arrow, it's a constant. We are talking about one bow and two different arrows. There is more energy transferred to a heavy arrow than a light one.

One of the reason in the penetration issue of heavy VS light. How can a light arrow start out with less, but penetrate more?

Bowmania

I like 14 gpp, and heavier, wood arrows, because it makes the bow feel and sound good. It is very satisying to shoot them, in comparison to the 2117s I previously shot for a decade.. I immediately knew that was the correct arrow for my bow, and for how I shoot. Thinking about the weight of the arrow was not an issue for me.

I'd be willing to bet alot of other archers would say the same thing IF they tried them. But hardwood arrow shooters are few and far between, even on this site. Folks pretty much shoot what is available on the store shelf.

I am gathering a heavy arrow is no more forgiving,than a lightier arrow.

After release both heavy and light arrow types contact the strike plate with the same force and come offf the strike plate at the same time and distance interval. More forgiving for heavy arrows is BS, hand tourqe or flubbed releases will show equal inconsistencies in a target?

When my bows shoot with authority...seem very quiet to me with little to no bump in my hand upon release...and still fly accurately at given ranges....I tend to think it likes a heavy arrow.

I like 11-12 gpp in arrows....

keep em sharp,

ron herman

Daven,

Read this link at your own peril. Makes my brain hurt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_moments_of_inertia

But the summary is more mass, more inertia, the less a body will deviate from a slight and transient variation.

Laws of physics certainly apply to arrows. The only real drawback to heavy hardwood or glass arrows is trajectory. I have always shot close range so trajectory isn't a problem.

That said, trajectory is not an excuse in baseball, football, basketball, golf, tennis, handball, javelin, shotput, etc. Ball weight is simply ingrained from experience. Nobody considers it, they just play.

In shooting sports you regularly hear talk about trajectory, from men shooting longer range. I think it is related to high tech aspect of long range shooting. I've never had the slightest interest in long range shooting of any weapons. I like shooting up close. Just a personal preference.

So Daven, you are calling BS on your analogy and findings of heavier arrows being more forgiving therefore more accurate? You indicated in your 2nd post that YOUR heavier arrows appeared to be more accurate?

story for the confusion, it was a poor attempt at a summery of points disussed,

My initial analogy was that yes it appears the heavy arrow is more accurate to me at 15-20 yards. I was looking for the reason.

Some points discussed:

- a heavy arrow is less accurate at long distances to most shooters due to trajectory, so shooters notice the heavy arrow accurate in close, but it really is the same as a lighter arrow. - a heavy arrow feels and sounds better, therefore the heavy arrow may emit more confidence for a shooter thus making it more accurate - more energy is transferred to a heavy arrow, makes it more accurate and, - a heavy arrow is more stable due to the inertia of an arrow thus outside forces will affect the forward movement

Pehaps a combination of factors reaching a conclusion.

heres something I learned when I was 10. I was the worst rock thrower in the hood. so I practiced throwing at a bucket about 15ft. away. made one out of ten. stacked up a bunch of half bricks. made about 7 out of 10. the next rock battle was my last and I lost a few friends that day , not to mention the reputation of my sanity. anyone here who thinks heavy aint stable...do the bucket test! lol...ron

This thread made me weigh some arrows this morning that I have been shooting from my 42@28 string follow longbow. My draw is just over 27" with that bow. The cedar arrows weighed 481 grains and the fiberglass weighed 525 grains. I do not use silencers and the bow just makes a "whoosh" sound when released.

Bob- "Ball weight is simply ingrained from experience. Nobody considers it, they just play."

Really?

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/1/21/7856953/deflategate-new-england- patriots-footballs-nfl-investigation

There are also non regulation golfballs. If other athletes were allowed to adjust their gear like archery does...they would (and sometimes they do anyway)

I think heavy arrrows can be more accurate,, depending on the bow and shooter,, like most things in archery,, not always,,:)

Jsd I think the slowing down/not fast to start with goes both ways. People say a heavy arrow doesnt slow down as fast when it meets resistance as a light arrow. If that's the case then it makes sense that the heavier asl limbs won't slow down as fast as lighter limbs when they meet the raised resistance of a heavier arrow.

Light arrows are easily slowed down, and cast far less, with flu flu fletch. Heavy hickory arrows do not slow down near as much with flu flu fletch, and in fact near the same distance as standard fletching.

I have done this test with heavy and light arrows, and that is how I know the heavy arrows does not slow down as readily. Add flu flu fletch to a heavy hickory arrow of 850 grains, and it casts between ten and twenty yards less than standard fletch.

Do the same with a light arrow, and it falls well short of the cast with standard fletch. This also tells me that heavy arrows penetrate better. You are shooting the atmosphere, you don't need ballistic gel or a fancy target. Fish arrows are heavy because they penetrate water better, and trajectory is meaningless at five yards.

Jsd that's about lower air pressure so he can grip the ball better, illegally. Not sure what that has to do with weight.

I went from 2213's to 2219's because of a suggestion by another archer a few weeks after I first started shooting indoors. Even tho the 2219's really couldn't be as well tuned as the 2213's my average score went up 4 or 5 points. I've always considered myself to have a good release but it did make a difference.

I also found 2117s twitchy, in comparison to hickory. I think it is easier for a pedestrian shot, like myself for example, to get off consistently more satisfying shots with heavier arrows. The overall all around feel and sensation of heavier arrows makes them more pleasureable to shoot.

Really good shots are gonna have the chops to make good shots regardless or arrow weight. Based on what I have seen, most stickbow shooters are very pedestrian shots. ymmv

I think Bob is just "cheating" and shooting heavy so he can have a 15 yard point on ;)

I just wanna see pictures

Fifteen yards is actually a longer shot for me. I like five to ten yards best. That's the range I know I'm gonna hit my target.

I have been doing some real high level stuff, we are talking NASA Not really, I came into a bunch of old aluminum arrows and just started shooting.....alot.

2216 31" 200gr. up front, 600 grains 2413 33" 175gr.. Up front, 550 grains 2512 33" 200gr. Up front, 564 grains 2018 31" 125gr. Up front 550 grains Easton Powerflight 500 31" 150 gr up front, 400 grain

Best to worst 2018, 500, 2216, 2413, 2512.

The one I like to shoot the most is the 2018. No idea why, maybe ibest for my bow, all seem to have great flight when I do my part.

I was wondering why.

1960 Bear Grizzly 50#, I am 28" draw.

My first bow kill on deer was less than 5 yds so my heavy arrow worked fine then and still does.

My hickories were about 820-860 grains with 190 heads. #55 Grizzly.

I like light arrows trajectory but I use a hair over 10 gpp mainly because 2219's are very durable and they give me around 630gns for my 60lbs bows. Besides, at 60lbs or more light arrows are too hard to find after they pass thru an animal ;)

Squirrel Hunter - "All bows shoot quieter and with less handshock with a heavier arrow."

Yes! When someone says their bow likes a heavy arrow I could scream! Every bow ever made likes a heavy arrow!

The key is to find the balance between acceptable bow behavior (feel) and trajectory.

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