Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


30th Cloverdale Nationals

Messages posted to thread:
BigStriper 13-May-17
BigStriper 13-May-17
JustSomeDude 13-May-17
Crow 14-May-17
JusPassin 14-May-17
Clydebow 14-May-17
BigStriper 14-May-17
JusPassin 14-May-17
BigStriper 14-May-17
Sipsey River 14-May-17
Clydebow 14-May-17
Sipsey River 14-May-17
tradarcherychamp 14-May-17
BigStriper 14-May-17
JustSomeDude 14-May-17
Clydebow 14-May-17
Jimmy Blackmon 14-May-17
sheepdogreno 14-May-17
Matt Ewing 14-May-17
Sipsey River 14-May-17
Pappy 15-May-17
alphamale 15-May-17
BigStriper 15-May-17
Sipsey River 15-May-17
Clydebow 15-May-17
BigStriper 16-May-17
Sipsey River 16-May-17
Tal McNeill 16-May-17
Sipsey River 16-May-17
BigStriper 16-May-17
Crow 16-May-17
Doc Pain 16-May-17
Sipsey River 16-May-17
George Vernon 16-May-17
Clydebow 16-May-17
knobby 16-May-17
Sepp 16-May-17
BigStriper 17-May-17
BigStriper 18-May-17
BigStriper 18-May-17
Ranger 18-May-17
GLF 19-May-17
Pappy 19-May-17
ranger3 19-May-17
GLF 19-May-17
Mule/IN 19-May-17
David Mitchell 19-May-17
Clydebow 19-May-17
GLF 19-May-17
YH2268 19-May-17
Witherstick 19-May-17
David Mitchell 19-May-17
BigStriper 19-May-17
GLF 19-May-17
GLF 19-May-17
Trillium 20-May-17
BigStriper 20-May-17
Danel 20-May-17
Doc Pain 20-May-17
JimBow 20-May-17
GLF 20-May-17
David Mitchell 20-May-17
BigStriper 20-May-17
BigStriper 21-May-17
Oldbowyer 22-May-17
Oldbowyer 22-May-17
Pappy 22-May-17
Witherstick 22-May-17
Pappy 22-May-17
Matt Ewing 22-May-17
Pencil Breaker 22-May-17
Sipsey River 22-May-17
JRW 22-May-17
Matt Ewing 22-May-17
Mule/IN 22-May-17
David Mitchell 22-May-17
GLF 22-May-17
Sipsey River 22-May-17
Pappy 23-May-17
Pencil Breaker 23-May-17
BigStriper 24-May-17
todd 24-May-17
BigStriper 24-May-17
Pappy 25-May-17
BigStriper 25-May-17
r.grider 26-May-17
BigStriper 26-May-17
Mule/IN 26-May-17
BigStriper 27-May-17
BigStriper 28-May-17
BigStriper 29-May-17
BigStriper 30-May-17
BigStriper 31-May-17
YH2268 31-May-17
Clydebow 31-May-17
Darkarcher 31-May-17
otis 31-May-17
otis 31-May-17
Danel 01-Jun-17
Darkarcher 01-Jun-17
Crow 01-Jun-17
Pappy 01-Jun-17
Matt Ewing 01-Jun-17
Mule/IN 01-Jun-17
Clydebow 01-Jun-17
otis 01-Jun-17
otis 01-Jun-17
BigStriper 01-Jun-17
BigStriper 02-Jun-17
Clydebow 02-Jun-17
BigStriper 02-Jun-17
bigdog21 03-Jun-17
YH2268 03-Jun-17
BigStriper 03-Jun-17
NewWood 03-Jun-17
BigStriper 03-Jun-17
BigStriper 04-Jun-17
BigStriper 05-Jun-17
Clydebow 05-Jun-17
todd 05-Jun-17
BigStriper 05-Jun-17
sheepdogreno 05-Jun-17
BigStriper 06-Jun-17
BigStriper 06-Jun-17
Clydebow 06-Jun-17
Clydebow 06-Jun-17
Rocky 06-Jun-17
BigStriper 06-Jun-17
otis 06-Jun-17
2ten 07-Jun-17
Rocky 07-Jun-17
todd 07-Jun-17
YH2268 07-Jun-17
David Mitchell 07-Jun-17
Mule/IN 07-Jun-17
BigStriper 07-Jun-17
Clydebow 07-Jun-17
BigStriper 07-Jun-17
Rocky 08-Jun-17
BigStriper 08-Jun-17
todd 08-Jun-17
BigStriper 10-Jun-17
BigStriper 11-Jun-17
Vaguely 11-Jun-17
Sipsey River 11-Jun-17
BigStriper 11-Jun-17
Witherstick 11-Jun-17
sheepdogreno 11-Jun-17
Darkarcher 11-Jun-17
otis 11-Jun-17
todd 12-Jun-17
Clydebow 12-Jun-17
BigStriper 12-Jun-17
Clydebow 12-Jun-17
01archer86 12-Jun-17
BigStriper 12-Jun-17
Sipsey River 12-Jun-17
Vaguely 12-Jun-17
todd 13-Jun-17
r.grider 13-Jun-17
Vaguely 13-Jun-17
Antlerart 13-Jun-17
YH2268 13-Jun-17
deerdander 13-Jun-17
BigStriper 14-Jun-17
r.grider 17-Jun-17
BigStriper 17-Jun-17
Clydebow 17-Jun-17
BigStriper 17-Jun-17
Darkarcher 17-Jun-17
jogilvie69 17-Jun-17
BigStriper 18-Jun-17
BigStriper 18-Jun-17
Vaguely 18-Jun-17
BigStriper 18-Jun-17
Vaguely 19-Jun-17
Clydebow 19-Jun-17
Jim Casto Jr 19-Jun-17
Darkarcher 19-Jun-17
Darkarcher 19-Jun-17
Darkarcher 19-Jun-17
Darkarcher 19-Jun-17
Darkarcher 19-Jun-17
BigStriper 20-Jun-17
From: BigStriper
Date: 13-May-17




Cloverdale is less than a month away.This will be the 30th anniversary of the Nationals and it is a great shoot,who's going.

Kurt

From: BigStriper
Date: 13-May-17




Cloverdale dates are June 9-10-11/2017

From: JustSomeDude
Date: 13-May-17




Kurt,

Was just looking at the rules. Is the scoring just 5 points in the vitals and a zero otherwise? And no mention of Stringwalking.

From: Crow
Date: 14-May-17




If the good lords willing and the creek dont rise.

From: JusPassin Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-May-17




probably not but I remember it fondly. It is a great shoot.

From: Clydebow
Date: 14-May-17




John, Yes it's 5 in the 8 ring. Out side or a miss is a zero. There is no R.U. class. You cannot use a mechanical rest. I'm thinking a stick on is okay. Nothing said about string walking, so I guess your good to go.

From: BigStriper
Date: 14-May-17




John, Clyde is probably right as he go's to alot more shoot's than I do.I know the scoring is as he said,if the arrow is in or on the 8 line of the insert it is a 5 and that is the only score there is.It's either a 5 or a ZERO. I don't think there is a RU class and not sure about the string walking.NO mechanical Rests either.Good Luck and hope to see some of you there.

Kurt

From: JusPassin Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-May-17




I just realized, it has been 15 years since I attended. Wow.

From: BigStriper
Date: 14-May-17




Bruce maybe you should give it another go,it's a great time.

Kurt

From: Sipsey River
Date: 14-May-17




Any bets that the same guy wins both classes again?

From: Clydebow
Date: 14-May-17




No duh John! LOL!

From: Sipsey River
Date: 14-May-17




Have they changed the rules or will it be the same again this year?

From: tradarcherychamp
Date: 14-May-17




I don't think there are any rule changes

From: BigStriper
Date: 14-May-17




It is a great shoot John,but if they need to change the rules to double scoring to keep the scoring in line maybe they will, beings it is the Nationals, if enough people inform them why they won't come. I think that's what you are referring to.

Kurt

From: JustSomeDude
Date: 14-May-17




If I was going to shoot like I was hunting, I would use a fixed crawl. That's what I was wondering about since there was no mention of fingers touching nock etc...

What are their yardages like. I would think that 5 or zero scoring would result in lots of perfect or nearly perfect scores unless they threw in lots of odd challenges

From: Clydebow
Date: 14-May-17




John, You can go to their web site and look at the scores from previous years. There are bonus targets, and yes, there are perfect scores shot every year.

From: Jimmy Blackmon
Date: 14-May-17




Clyde - can you guess the winner already? ;-)

From: sheepdogreno
Date: 14-May-17




I plan on attending for my first tjme

From: Matt Ewing
Date: 14-May-17




Maybe

From: Sipsey River
Date: 14-May-17




I think many of us can make a good guess of who will win.

From: Pappy
Date: 15-May-17




Good shoot and great bunch of guys running it, but like lots of events now days, help is short and have to do the best they can with what they have to work with , and they do that. I plan on trying to make it up if I can get away. We made this event in force for the first 20+ years but as I said club help is short and have had to much going on a TwinOaks the last few years to take a weekend off and head that way, hope to this year. Pappy

From: alphamale
Date: 15-May-17




got lucky won the recurve class in 2014, will be shooting longbow this year a really great shoot i love cloverdale, good luck to every one ALPHAMALE thanx.,.

From: BigStriper
Date: 15-May-17




Tied for 1st with Longbow in 2012 and won Recurve in 2013, I was lucky,the Sharp Shooter must not have been there. Kurt

From: Sipsey River
Date: 15-May-17




To alphamale, BigStriper and any others who have won by shooting well. My remarks above were directed at the one guy most know who uses a sharp pencil to win. I respect everyone who shoots well and scores honestly. I hope you men shoot well again and the bad guy stays home.

From: Clydebow
Date: 15-May-17




Yes Jimmy!

From: BigStriper
Date: 16-May-17




I hope the Cheater either Quits Cheating or Quits Coming so the Rest of us can have a Good time and more people will start coming back to this Great Shoot.John I also heard a Rumor of who it is that does the Pencil Pushing (so the word is out).Everybody come on out and let's have a Great time this year,it's the 30th Anniversary,hope it's a good one.

Kurt

From: Sipsey River
Date: 16-May-17




Good luck Kurt.

From: Tal McNeill
Date: 16-May-17




Cloverdale is a great shoot run by great folks. It's a shame that one person keeps so many people away (myself included). Also its a shame that any discussion of Cloverdale always turns to this same subject.

That's why I love public shootoffs. It's always enlightening when the guy who turned in a perfect score totally zeros a 20-yard shot in front of a few hundred people;).

From: Sipsey River
Date: 16-May-17




In the first round of the Howard Hill shootoffs, shooting at 5 targets, he had a miss and four 5's.

From: BigStriper
Date: 16-May-17




It sounds to me like he has a VERY Sharp Pencil,I don't know him but I have heard his name,and have heard some of the same things you guy's are saying about him. Just hoping we can this Cloverdale shoot back to where it should be and more people coming back to the shoot.

Kurt

From: Crow
Date: 16-May-17




Im not up on what your talking about. Only. Been a couple times,, but if someones cheatting they are hurting themselves and sad but honest people to. Thats sad that an adult has to cheat

From: Doc Pain
Date: 16-May-17




Haven't been in several years,but only because of a large family gathering taking place at the same time now. When we did attend it was always a great time. What's really sad to me is seeing a thread like this where so many men know or seem to know the person causing the issue and it sounds like nothing is being done to correct it.

From: Sipsey River
Date: 16-May-17




In no way being critical of those running the event, and only for the sake of discussion, if you were in charge of the event, and people were complaining about a guy showing up almost every year and winning multiple classes, what would you do about it? Would you ignore it? If you wanted to stop it, what would you do?

From: George Vernon Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 16-May-17




Several competitive shoots around the country gather score cards and assign folks into groups of complete strangers shooting the course for score. In addition, one could add the requirement two sets of scoring cards are to be kept for each group. Yes, cheating can still occur, but these steps would make significant barriers.

From: Clydebow
Date: 16-May-17




I know they don't want to go to such a rigid format that might alienate shooters that want to shoot with friends and family. There could be a non-competitive and a competitive sign in. The competitors could be grouped and double scoring.

From: knobby
Date: 16-May-17




I love shooting different 3D courses whenever I can, but participating at Cloverdale was the most fun I've ever had on an archery course. Challenging? Absolutely, but what a great event!

From: Sepp
Date: 16-May-17




Great course, really nice target sets. Very little chance of losing your arrow even if you miss. (Not everyone shoots a perfect score). I would love to go, but am tied up that weekend.

Sepp

From: BigStriper
Date: 17-May-17




Danny that might be a good idea you have there about the scoring. Kurt

From: BigStriper
Date: 18-May-17




TTT

From: BigStriper
Date: 18-May-17




3 weeks

From: Ranger
Date: 18-May-17




The club always sets up a great course. I have finished pretty well a couple of years, but I have never won it.

I have watched other people fire multiple arrows until the hit the kill zone and then score it.

I have watched people not shoot from the stake and score their shot.

I have watched people shoot at bonus targets and miss, but then take multiple shots at the regular target for score.

I have watched stringwalkers, and people using pin sites on the course. I have seen mechanical rests and stabalizers even though the rules prohibit them. I called some of these to a club officer's attention, but nothing was done about it and those people still turned in their score cards.

Overall, it is a fun course to shoot, but it is a joke to think that it is an honest shoot. Even the equipment is not regulated. I am pretty much done with them unless the club enforces a few of the blatently ignored rule violations.

From: GLF
Date: 19-May-17




I'm not saying it's the case here but every time you get a good shooter that wins constantly you're gonna have rumors which end up ruining it for everyone. I've been at the brunt of that so I know what I am talking about. I won't a bunch of 3d tournaments in a row sometimes 2 in a weekend. Then a friend told me that everyone was complaining and even some said they saw me cheating. I never kept score cause my writing sucks and I never scored the arrows. I only pulled em once they were score so cheating was inpossible. BUT, the last shoot of the year came up I ask that clubs president to go along and score the arrows and keep the score cards. I explained to him why so he agreed. I won that tournament also and haven't kept score at once since and never will. Sorry, I hate poor losers and whiners worse than I hate broccoli,lol. If anyone saw anyone cheating trust me, they woulda turned that person in, its what people do when winning is at stake.

From: Pappy
Date: 19-May-17




I agree GLF,If someone comes on the scene that wins a lot and especially wins big the rumors start. I know it goes on but everyone one that wins ant cheating. Pappy

From: ranger3
Date: 19-May-17




Don't want to start an argument, but how do you know he used a sharp pencil? Did some of you see him doing it?

From: GLF
Date: 19-May-17




I went to the first 10 Cloverdale shoots then the accusations started so I stopped and so did a lot of people. People don't realize how bad they hurt the shoots with all the crying. All the big shoots should stop keeping score and bring back the fun.

From: Mule/IN Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 19-May-17




As far as not shooting from stakes and taking multiple shots...lots of shooters pay a lesser fee and are not in competition. I am thinking that it used to be that once your score card is turned in you could shoot the ranges as much as you wanted. Could be wrong on that though. Anyways, Cloverdale is still my favorite place to shoot and it's always a great time!

From: David Mitchell Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 19-May-17




You pay to shoot the main course one time. Want to shoot it again, you pay again. They punch your card when you start a range. I never keep score nor do the guys I shoot with but the score card is your ticket to the main ranges. There is a practice 20 target range that you can shoot as many times as you want without paying extra.

From: Clydebow
Date: 19-May-17




David is correct. Once you you pay for the competition button, it includes unlimited shooting on the practice course. You can just pay for a button that only allows you on the practice range.

From: GLF
Date: 19-May-17




The shoots I still go to I write NO SCORE very large on my card and have them write it next to my name. Then I go have fun. But the few shoots that get a lot of whiners I avoid. I also avoid shoots in which I have to shoot with who they choose since I don't score.

From: YH2268 Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 19-May-17




I love going to Cloverdale, the guys there put on a great shoot, one of the best around. I've attend this shoot over 20 years out of the 29, and hope to be there this year and able to shoot. Had major surgery 4 weeks ago and I'm on the mend. Doctors said 6 to 8 weeks,well week 8 is the shoot. Go and have fun, enjoy this great shoot, and don't worry about winning. I consider myself an average shooter, but I'm always a winner in my own mind. Mike

From: Witherstick
Date: 19-May-17




I have to say that there seems to be anatural progression for most shooters. When I first started attending shoots, I did not keep score. Later when I was more confident in my shooting, I began keeping score and did quite well. After sort of proving myself, I went back to enjoy just the fun of shooting at numerous 3D shoots. Cheating probably does occur, but for the most part it seems shooters are honest. These days I attend Cloverdale as well as many other shoots and rarely if ever keep score. For me it is about the shooting and the camaraderie. Cloverdale has the best course out and we enjoy it.

From: David Mitchell Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 19-May-17




Well, I can say that I have attended Cloverdale 27 of the 29 years it has been run and this will make 28 of 30 Lord's willing, and I have yet to hear any whiners--seriously. It is too good to let some alleged whiners ruin it for me. It is what you make it. Life is not about what others do but how you respond to what others do. It is one of the great 3D ranges in the country and good folks who work their rear ends off to make it happen. I can't wait!

From: BigStriper
Date: 19-May-17




You don't have to keep score to have fun, this is a great shoot and good place to see old friends. Let's have a great time in 3 weeks. Kurt

From: GLF
Date: 19-May-17

GLF's embedded Photo



Omg they used to have the best breakfast for very little money. They had huge skillets set on a line with fires built under em. They had anything you could imagine that was considered breakfast food, even skillet biscuits. Yeah it was by far the most fun shoot I ever went to. Just to show how far their targets have come come here's mu youngest shooting a target the first year. Check out the target.

From: GLF
Date: 19-May-17




lol he's not very happy about hittin it in the butt.

From: Trillium
Date: 20-May-17




I have shot Cloverdale many times, both for the "Nationals" and the IBO Traditional Worlds. It is one of the most beautiful courses in the country, especially the back part with the cathedral trees along the creek. BUT, I consider it to be a fun club shoot/archery rendezvous rather than a legitimate or much-respected archery competition. I believe that the Cloverdale folks can keep that relaxed vibe, and folks can enjoy their courses, but if they wish to attract more shooters they need to do something about their scoring system if they want to continue to promote their shoot as a real competition.

And, because I hate when people criticize without offering a solution, here are suggestions. Have two categories of participation -- fun and competition. If you register as a "fun" shooter, you cannot re-register as a competition shooter later (to prevent folks from scoping-out the course as a "fun" shooter and then shooting for score later). If you register for competition, you cannot get a "fun" badge/score card until you turn in your official competition cards. And, of course, assign busted groups and double scoring.

Fortunately, I live in an area where I shoot beautiful and challenging club courses every weekend, so I no longer drive five-plus hours to attend the Cloverdale fun event to have a great shooting experience. But, if the event organizers want to attract more folks like me, they may wish to consider changing their format. Indeed, I saw recently that the new Traditional Archery Society recently made that decision -- to modify their format to make it a more respected competition event -- to ensure that participants feel that the competition is as fair as possible.

From: BigStriper
Date: 20-May-17




Great picture Gary,bring him with you if you can come.

Kurt

From: Danel
Date: 20-May-17




A big thank you to the folks at Cloverdale that put on a great shoot. I hope to attend again this year.

I put myself in the category of a fun shooter, but keep score occasionally. The suggestions above by Trillium sound like a good answer to the problem of accurate scoring for those shooters who choose to compete.

One suggestion: I'd like to see the main courses open in the evening for those people who have limited time to shoot.

From: Doc Pain
Date: 20-May-17




Looks like a femoral artery shot to me. lol

From: JimBow
Date: 20-May-17




Good Lord willing I'll be there

From: GLF
Date: 20-May-17




People always say double scoring or official scorers will bring more in. Unless things have changed drastically in recent years what draws people is the fun. Only 20 or 30 even believe they have a chance of winning and don't care about scoring other than for their personal use. When I was going regularly to trad shoots it was the shoots that didn't bother with score that brought in the most people. More vendors brings more people and more people brings more vendors, but only once word gets around and not the first year it happens. For most trad guys it's about fun. What hurt Cloverdales attendance was Comptons being so close that vendors went there and skipped Cloverdale, less vendors=less people. Winning or scoring or even if they score at all won't bring people, fun and vendors will..... Just curious, who has the best attendance, ibo trad world championship or shoots like Cloverdale was and Comptons?

From: David Mitchell
Date: 20-May-17




GLF, I totally agree that Comptons pretty much killed off a lot of the vendor traffic at Cloverdale. I have never understood how they thought it was a good thing to have a shoot so close in both time and distance to each other. Since Compton is a national organization and Cloverdale is sponsored by a local club, one would think that the vendors would naturally gravitate to the event sponsored by a national organization with its draw. I like Comptons but that has always sort of been a burr in under my saddle.

From: BigStriper
Date: 20-May-17




Back up

Kurt

From: BigStriper
Date: 21-May-17




TTT

From: Oldbowyer
Date: 22-May-17




Planning on it. Been working on a new bow for it but not sure if I will have it done

From: Oldbowyer
Date: 22-May-17




Planning on it. been working on a new bow but not if I will have it done

From: Pappy
Date: 22-May-17




David at the Classic we go through the same thing and are working on making that better, even though the majority come for fun we figured it up and about 30% of the shooter that attended wanted to shoot for score. That sounds like a small number but if you think about it at a shoot with over 600 that's about 180 won't come if it is just for fun with no competition.That hurts for sure so we are trying as I think Cloverdale should to make it more legitimate for those that want to shoot for score and still keep it fun for all the others. Cloverdale is a great club and course and I hope it picks back up as I think it will. As for the IBO World we have between 2 and 3 hundred for the IBO side of the event and 400 plus for the hunter challenge which is the less competitive side of the event so still have more that just want to shoot for fun. Seems in the South the shoots that have no competiteve side to the event don't do as well as they seem to do in the North, not sure why but that is how it seems to me.Anyway I plan on going to Cloverdale and yes it will be for the Fun. Pappy

From: Witherstick
Date: 22-May-17




I would add something that is often overlooked. We have always shot as a family. Our children grew up going to shoots across the country. While we still occasionally keep score and turn in a card, we mostly enjoy the family time shooting together and preparing for hunting season. Taking the time to record scores slows things down and distracts from the experience. In fact, makes it seem as silly as golf. My point is that we often skip shoots where the insecure group are worried about where they stand to the point that groups are busted. Now, we don't mind occasionally shooting with others but it isn't our goal. So, as we try to satisfy the obvious minority and their need to regulate, let's keep in mind the majority who just aren't that worried about those who are dishonest or those who are so worried about the dishonest.

Honestly, if you really want it fair, the host club would need to provide an official scorekeeper at each target who would fill in each shooters score. Imagine how slow that would be as well as the strain on the clubs resources. As for us, we wil take things as they are.

From: Pappy
Date: 22-May-17




That is what we want to keep in mind also Kirk, we put a yellow line through the ones that don't care about score and will only double card and try and put with a group those that do care. That way it should be good for everyone. It is a fine line trying to please everyone, all a club can do it try it's best. Pappy

From: Matt Ewing
Date: 22-May-17




Any word on venders?

From: Pencil Breaker
Date: 22-May-17




The guy that cheats all the time is Scott Roberts. He never shoots good at events with more official scoring. He always only shoots with his kid. He and his kid always shoot a near perfect score. This has been going on for many years. People have complained to the club and nothing happens (People with world champion titles). People have tried to follow the guy and catch him cheating but he always notices it and sits down and says he tired and lets them shoot through.

He did the same thing at the TAS worlds this year. Shot a perfect score. 40 10's in a row. A near impossible score per the opinion of some of the top current shooters in the world that attended. His kids score was just a few points lower. People complained and they broke his group on the last 10 target shoot off. He did not come close to shooting a perfect score on the last 10 targets but his lead was too high so he still took 1st. His kid blanked a ton of shots and did not win.

When the guy was called up for his award everyone turned there back on him and applauded the 2nd place guy loudly because he was the true winner.

Its really very sad that this goes on but I guess people do worse things and get away with it. I cant imaging teaching my children to cheat though.

From: Sipsey River
Date: 22-May-17




He has won both longbow and recurve classes several times. If all of this is true, how many outstanding shooters, who have invested hours of practice to improve and be great shots, have been cheated out of their opportunity to be legitimate champions? Maybe it is time they do not allow him to participate or require him to shoot with an assigned club score keeper to verify his results.

From: JRW
Date: 22-May-17




David,

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but when Compton started their rendezvous wasn't Cloverdale backed by a national traditional archery organization (ATHA)? I remember those fights back then. They were terribly unfortunate.

From: Matt Ewing
Date: 22-May-17




So there will be cheaters. How about venders?

From: Mule/IN Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 22-May-17




I was getting the impression that the cheating by this guy was a recurring thing at Cloverdale. I went to the Cloverdale website and checked the scores back thru 2011 and it shows him winning the recurve class and tying for first in the longbow class in 2016. His name didn't show up in the top 3 any other year. Not doubting anyone at all that this guy is a cheater, but if was just last year maybe the Cloverdale folks have taken some kind of steps to deal with his cheating. I hope so anyway because it is too good of an event to miss out on. Hope to see a bunch of you there! Mike

From: David Mitchell
Date: 22-May-17




Jason, I do believe ATHA had a presence but I do not recall that they had a very strong sponsoring presence. I may be wrong--certainly wouldn't be the first time. I just remember ATHA members making little rattan bows for kids most of the week end.

From: GLF
Date: 22-May-17




Lmao, rumor mill at it again. Once =several times. Right? Ya know when you start throwing names around you better have proof(which I suspect there is none) or you could be in for a lawsuit.

From: Sipsey River
Date: 22-May-17




Does he show up every year?

From: Pappy
Date: 23-May-17




Don't know anything about him except he was at our open shoot this year, first time I meet him. He won with a very good score and so did his son, I did invite him to the IBO world, we will see if he shows up and if so how he shoots, yes it seems if anyone wins by a big margin he is deemed a cheater, true or not. Kind of sad either way. As far as vendors I think they will be up some this year, my good friend David Ogles said he had quite a few signed up when I seen him in May so hopefully they are having a good turn around. Pappy

From: Pencil Breaker
Date: 23-May-17




He took a few year break after he was outed the last time.

Make sure you click RC and LB he usually wins both.

2016 http://cloverdalenationals.com/results/2016/2016_Trad_results.htm

2009 http://cloverdalenationals.com/results/2009/TAN_2009_Scores.htm

2008 http://cloverdalenationals.com/results/2009/TAN_2009_Scores.htm

Reference to him beating Rick Welch and winning cloverdale in 2007 http://auction1.tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=94;t=000416;p=1

Cant find 2006 but it was probably him too.

Howard hill classic 2008 http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/tf/lw/thread2.cfm?forum=23&threadid=175780&messages=6&CATEGORY=9

I guess you can thank the guy. He's probably half the reason they started IBO Trad worlds in 2009.

From: BigStriper
Date: 24-May-17




It won't be long now,hope to see ya and say Hi Pappy,other wise I'll see ya at the IBO when I pick up them nice Awards you made for me.LOL.

Kurt

From: todd Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 24-May-17




I love the cloverdale shoot, great people, fun and a great course to shoot. I stopped keeping score back in my compound days, when was accused of cheating, then me and the other guy had shoot off and I cleaned the house with him. I told them, to keep the trophy. It doesn't matter to me anymore, what matters is how I shoot for me and the animal, and having fun. See you there.

From: BigStriper
Date: 24-May-17




Back up for a great shoot.

Kurt

From: Pappy
Date: 25-May-17




TTT Pappy

From: BigStriper
Date: 25-May-17




TTT

Kurt

From: r.grider
Date: 26-May-17




I go just because I love to shoot. Not good enough to win, so its strictly for fun to me. I dont care if someone cheats, they are only hurting them selves. I do feel for those that obey the rules, shoot well, and lose to dishonesty . If we ever start having a problem at our shoot, you will see it go to non competition. The TBOF shoot has the best solution in my opinion. Shoot 40 targets friday, or saturday, turn in score cards, and they are sorted into "peer groups", in other words, similar scoring competitors, and the top 5 will start on targets #1, the next 5 on target #2, and so on untill all 20 targets are loaded for shotgun start on sunday morning. You will most likely be shooting with strangers, and 4 of them, each person having two score cards. these have to match or they are disqualified when turned in. Its the only way I can see you can police the scoring , with out appointing scorekeepers. Most clubs, probably all clubs , just dont have the manpower, to accompany every group with a score keeper. Ive noticed that those that constantly get accused of cheating, do not participate in this shoot. I offended one shooter in my group when he objected to me not counting the back line (quartering away shot) of a rhinehart target as an 8. (target was set broadside), my response was, "You would shoot a deer in the guts ????" That told me that the 40 targets he shot on saturday got scored that way as his shooting was horrible. Its a fun shoot, and ill just say, I always start well into the course on sunday, no where near the front groups. LOL

From: BigStriper
Date: 26-May-17




Back up

Kurt

From: Mule/IN Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 26-May-17




If anyone is relatively close to Cloverdale, they will be having the annual Jordan Ray Spring Bear Shoot this Sunday, 5/28/17. All bear targets and always a good time. Sign in starts at 8:00 a.m.

From: BigStriper
Date: 27-May-17




Wish I lived closer. Sounds like a good shoot.

Kurt

From: BigStriper
Date: 28-May-17




I'm going to the Cloverdale Nationals, I was talking about the Jordan Ray Spring Bear shoot they are having today.

Kurt

From: BigStriper
Date: 29-May-17




TTT

Kurt

From: BigStriper
Date: 30-May-17




Coming soon.

Kurt

From: BigStriper
Date: 31-May-17




A little over a week away,except for Clyde and some other Lucky ones.LOL. Kurt

From: YH2268 Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 31-May-17




Wife and I will be there, friends from near Marion IN will be there, and once again we'll be at the "6". Met you there last year Kurt.

From: Clydebow
Date: 31-May-17




We plan on being there this Saturday and camp all week.

From: Darkarcher
Date: 31-May-17




To compete do you have to be there more than one day? I can only come one day so i will either bring my target ilf rig or just my hunting setup depending

From: otis
Date: 31-May-17




Here is a vendor list of who's coming this year. Sorry to be so late with this. Been having computer problems. Ace Archery, Emerald Archery, Ed Neat , Selway Archery, Lost Nation, Timberhawk bows, Blacktail bows, Tom Rowan, Shriver Arm guards, Three River Archery, Black Rhino, Grayling Products,Bow Hospital, Traditional Bows, Quality Quivers, Mark Gutekunst custom knives, Native andes center, Big Jim Bow Company, Jerry Co. , Traditional Archery Sales, Grey Bar Archery, Rhino Products, Rock Pile Farms.

Hopefully we will have someone to supply any of your archery needs.

David

From: otis
Date: 31-May-17




Forgot one. New Wood Longbows and Monty Browning will be our guest speaker this year.

From: Danel
Date: 01-Jun-17




Darkarcher, from my understanding, you can shoot the competitive course in one day.

From: Darkarcher
Date: 01-Jun-17




Thanks Daniel!

From: Crow
Date: 01-Jun-17




Doesn't Cloverdale have a short walk through with 3d targets you can shoot at no charge. Seems like I remember that

From: Pappy
Date: 01-Jun-17




Practice course is Only if you register for the main course. You can shoot the mine course 1 time and the practice course all you want. Pappy

From: Matt Ewing
Date: 01-Jun-17




Thanks otis! I am going to try to make it. Sounds like fun to me.

From: Mule/IN Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 01-Jun-17




I think you can pay a reduced rate and just shoot the practice course. Maybe Otis will see this and clarify?

From: Clydebow
Date: 01-Jun-17




The 3D practice range is not free. There are practice bales near the vendor tent. If you don't want to pay to shoot the main course, you can just pay for the practice course button. This info was covered earlier in this post.

From: otis
Date: 01-Jun-17




From: otis
Date: 01-Jun-17




You can get a button to shoot the practice range all you want. Sorry don't know the price of that. If you sign up for the main course that will let you shoot the practice range all you want. If you want to shoot the main course again after turning your score card you can pay a reduced rate to shoot that again. Again I don't know what that price is. We've had many people do that over the years I've been there because they like it so much. If you show up early like Clyde does and some of the other campers you can start shooting the practice range when you show up with no questions ask. Hope that everyone that comes has a great time.

David

From: BigStriper
Date: 01-Jun-17




Michael ( Yh2268 ) I will be camping this year in the first camp ground closest to town,I'll be there thursday evening.If you see me give me a holler.

Kurt

From: BigStriper
Date: 02-Jun-17




TTT for next weekends shoot.

Kurt

From: Clydebow
Date: 02-Jun-17




Packed up and leaving tomorrow a.m.

From: BigStriper
Date: 02-Jun-17




Have Fun Danny, I wish I could go early like you .

Kurt

From: bigdog21
Date: 03-Jun-17




If your a competitive shooter and suspect some one of pencil pushing. just wait for him to sign in if he is good he should mind the company. I use to shoot with a pretty good shooter usually first everywhere we went. on several occasions the clubs start sending someone to shoot with us but it was all good and he enjoyed them finding out the truth.

From: YH2268 Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 03-Jun-17




The extend weather forecast for Cloverdale is looking real good. It appears everything is coming together for a great weekend. I think this going to be one event you will not want to miss. I'm healing up from surgery and I'm definitely looking forward to attending, see you there.

From: BigStriper
Date: 03-Jun-17




It won't be long now.

Kurt

From: NewWood
Date: 03-Jun-17




It will be our first time there. We are really looking forward to a great weekend.

From: BigStriper
Date: 03-Jun-17




It should be a Great Shoot.Weather looks good.

Kurt

From: BigStriper
Date: 04-Jun-17




A couple of days now.

Kurt

From: BigStriper
Date: 05-Jun-17




3 days. Kurt

From: Clydebow
Date: 05-Jun-17




Been here since Saturday afternoon. Weather's been great. Grandson's been catching nice bluegill and some small bass. Shooting the practice range every day. Nancy just took him to Greencastle to a public swimming pool. I've taken a few pics so far. One is a snapping turtle at practice target 2. He wasn't happy! Also a pretty good pic of a humming bird at our friends feeder. There's a few more campers in the first camping area you pass when driving in. We are in our regular spot next to the storage building. We will be heading to Parker's Archery range in Spencer this evening for an indoor trad 3D shoot. Went there last year and had a great time. Maybe I'll get lucky and win the money on the mystery target again this year!

From: todd Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 05-Jun-17




Thinking of starting a KIK group, so all the people who want to can communicate to make getting together and meeting easier. Thoughts?

From: BigStriper
Date: 05-Jun-17




Alright Danny,you don't have to rub it in,just have a good time and I'll see ya Thursday evening or Friday morning.

Kurt

From: sheepdogreno
Date: 05-Jun-17




I plan on attending for the first time this year but will be going alone and don't know anyone going. Hoping to make some new friends. Not sure what day I'll be there I have to help some family move in Rockville

From: BigStriper
Date: 06-Jun-17




Awful hard not to make friends at Cloverdale, I"ll be there Thursday afternoon. Kurt

From: BigStriper
Date: 06-Jun-17




Awful hard not to make friends at Cloverdale, I"ll be there Thursday afternoon. Kurt

From: Clydebow
Date: 06-Jun-17




Dang! Had to close up the windows on the camper last night and get an extra blanket!

From: Clydebow
Date: 06-Jun-17




Oh yes Kurt, easy living! See you then!

From: Rocky
Date: 06-Jun-17




Hey Otis,

The bus is headed south at 6:00 AM on Friday morning with the requested elk steaks and burgers in tow. Like we told Pappy, the good Lord willing, the creek don't rise and the bus don't quit we'll see you about noon or 1:00. Can't wait!

Rocky

From: BigStriper
Date: 06-Jun-17




Hey Rocky,what time you think the Elk steaks are gonna be ready,I'll come by and say Hi to you and Pappy and the rest of the fella's,LOL.

Kurt

From: otis
Date: 06-Jun-17




Looking forward to seeing you guys again. We'll be waiting for you. See you then.

David

From: 2ten
Date: 07-Jun-17




This is a fantastic course. Don't think of it as a serious competition. They do post the scores so you can see how you stand. It is very challenging and super fun. I also enjoy the practice course.

From: Rocky
Date: 07-Jun-17




Elk steaks on Friday night around 6:30 Kurt. Please do stop by and say HI. Pappy can't make it. He has some storm damage to clean up at Twin Oaks. We'll miss him but it'll soon be August and we'll all be at Elm Hall.

From: todd Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 07-Jun-17




no one else use's KIK chat?

From: YH2268 Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 07-Jun-17




todd , I saw your post earlier and sense no one has responded, I guess I will. What is KIK??? I take it has something to do with communicating with others. As you can tell, I'm pretty low tech, however, I'm heading for Cloverdale in the morning and I'll be wearing my desert camo USMC boonie. Mike

From: David Mitchell
Date: 07-Jun-17




Never heard of it.

From: Mule/IN Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 07-Jun-17




I didn't respond to the KIK comment for the same reason as the other folks. Have no clue what it is.

From: BigStriper
Date: 07-Jun-17




Rocky what camping area are you going to be in.

Kurt

From: Clydebow
Date: 07-Jun-17




He's going to be right across from us in his bus.

From: BigStriper
Date: 07-Jun-17




Thanks Danny,maybe I can meet Rocky and say Hi, and get a bite of the Elk,LOL. To bad Pappy couldn't make it,but he does have to have Twin Oaks in good shape for the IBO.

Kurt

From: Rocky
Date: 08-Jun-17




Kurt we'll be in the white bus by the pond, across from the target barn.

Rocky

From: BigStriper
Date: 08-Jun-17




Rocky I"ll try to catch up with you this weekend sometime. Kurt

From: todd Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 08-Jun-17




KIK is a smartphone app, that is free, easy to make own name. Then join/make a group, that only members of that group can chat in, share pics or videos. Example of use- you and another buddy is on the course, make a great shot or funny moment, with kik group, snap a pic and all in group can see. Or just communicate. Let's say, that a vendor decides to sale a dozen arrows, for 5 dollars, you can communicate that in the KIK group, so all know.

From: BigStriper
Date: 10-Jun-17




Having a Greatt time,and the weather couldn't"t be better. Kurt

From: BigStriper
Date: 11-Jun-17




Just got back from the Cloverdale shoot and we had a GREAT time.We had over 20 good friends from the Illinois -St Louis Missouri area there,NO RAIN,good campimg weather and we did alot of good shooting.It was a Wonderful weekend and I want to Thank David Ogles and All the Cloverdale folks for putting on another Great Shoot.

Kurt

From: Vaguely
Date: 11-Jun-17




From the gang at Cloverdale, Thanks to everyone who attended the Traditional Archery Nationals this weekend!! Hope to see you all next year!!

From: Sipsey River
Date: 11-Jun-17




Who won men's recurve and men's longbow?

From: BigStriper
Date: 11-Jun-17




John I don't know,I didn't stay for the awards.I only shot a 215 for Longbow but don't think that is near good enough.It was a good shoot and a good time.

Kurt

From: Witherstick
Date: 11-Jun-17




We had another great time too. No one is our family wanted to hassle with keeping score and noticed that most of the shooters we saw were not bothering either. We got there around noon on Saturday and had all 3 scoring ranges and the practice range completed by 5:30 that afternoon. The terrain there just lends itself to a great 3d experience and the hosts to a fantastic job setting the courses. Our children are all older now, but my wife and I still treat on 3d shoots. It was well worth the over 100 bucks we spent for the afternoon shooting.

From: sheepdogreno
Date: 11-Jun-17




I had an absolutely amazing time attending for the first time! Met some great people and got to chat bows with some very knowledgeable people. Let alone that course! It was awesome! I only had time to shoot the practice and 41 of the 50 but it was unlike any I've been to. Plus I managed to find a deal on a great old bear bow for my girlfriend! She is more than excited to attend with me next year

From: Darkarcher
Date: 11-Jun-17




Anybody hear if they drew the big jim bow raffle?

From: otis
Date: 11-Jun-17




Thanks to everyone who attended this weekend. Kurt, good to get to meet you and put a face to the name. Darkarcher, the winner of the Big Jim raffle was Randy Canon from MO. I don't know if he is on this site or any of the other traditional sites. Vaguely emailed him this evening and I don't know if he replied yet. The weather was the best it has been since I joined the club. Again, thanks to everyone who attended and all of our vendors who came.

David

From: todd Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 12-Jun-17




Been a few years since I made it there, but had a great time and loved the shoot as always. Will be back again.

From: Clydebow
Date: 12-Jun-17




John, He wan't there.

From: BigStriper
Date: 12-Jun-17




David I had a Great time, I beleive it was the Best weekend with Friends I have had in a LONG time.Everything was great,even the weather,NO rain.All of the Guy's and Gal's from the Cloverdale Club did a very good job at making this event very enjoyable,and it was nice getting to meet you also,Thanks.

Kurt Stunkel

From: Clydebow
Date: 12-Jun-17




wasn't

From: 01archer86
Date: 12-Jun-17




Hey Kurt! You took 2nd with your longbow. I grabbed your plaque for you. I have it at Town Hall.

From: BigStriper
Date: 12-Jun-17




Thanks Jeff, I didn't think I would get that close.Sometimes you never know,LOL.

Kurt

From: Sipsey River
Date: 12-Jun-17




Great news for the shooters.

From: Vaguely
Date: 12-Jun-17




Thanks to all those who attended the Traditional Archery Nationals at Cloverdale this past weekend! We had the drawing for the Big Jim Bow Package and the winner was Randy Canon from Missouri. Congratulations!! Big Jim makes a very fine bow and is great to work with. We at the Cloverdale Conservation Club/ Deer Creek Archers would like to thank Big Jim for his tremendous generosity.

From: todd Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Jun-17




Yes, Thank You Big Jim and to the staff of Cloverdale for another awesome shoot.

From: r.grider
Date: 13-Jun-17




Had a great day shooting with daughter and grand kids ! Cloverdale always been one of my favorites, bueatifull course, with good targets and neat setups. When/where will scores be posted ? Im thinking my grandsons's score (193) may have him in the running for a place.

From: Vaguely
Date: 13-Jun-17




The scores have been sent to our webmaster so they should be on our web-site soon!

From: Antlerart
Date: 13-Jun-17




Me and my wife had a fantastic time ,finally got the perfect weekend and caught up with old friends. Rocky the elk was fantastic and thankyou, To Dave and the guys at cloverdale great job as always,one of my favorite shoots.

From: YH2268 Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Jun-17




Yes, a fantastic weekend, and one of best shoots anywhere,but perfect, I thought it was a little too warm and dusty. LOL ! A big THANK YOU to all the guys and gals at Cloverdale !!!

From: deerdander
Date: 13-Jun-17




I got to meet Big Jim, super nice guy. I really should have bought some of his targets he had for sale. He had a whole mess of arrows and bows there as well. Met a new bowyer who makes Beautiful ASL's and saw a $4500 blacktail I would give a toe to own.

From: BigStriper
Date: 14-Jun-17




Yea that Big Jim guy is alright,he's got a lot of stuff to sell you to.There were enough Vendors for you to get about anything you needed,and what a great time we all had.Looking forward to next year already.Thanks to the Cloverdale gang for setting up a nice shoot again,the 30th was a good one.

Kurt

From: r.grider
Date: 17-Jun-17




Go to 5-8-10 scoring, that seperates the good shooters from the great shooters

From: BigStriper
Date: 17-Jun-17




Randy I guess they are happy with the way they have been doing the scoring,but yes the 10-8-5 scoring would seperate the good from the best,it is a good shoot which ever way you score it.

Kurt

From: Clydebow
Date: 17-Jun-17




It did feel a little strange not having any rain!:-)

From: BigStriper
Date: 17-Jun-17




Yea Danny,to must Dust,LOL.

Kurt

From: Darkarcher
Date: 17-Jun-17




Still looking twice a day for scores!!! Come on cloverdale web masters!

From: jogilvie69
Date: 17-Jun-17




Scores are up.

From: BigStriper
Date: 18-Jun-17




Found them Jeff.

Kurt

From: BigStriper
Date: 18-Jun-17




Is it me or did they take the scores back off the web site.

Kurt

From: Vaguely
Date: 18-Jun-17




Scores are still up Kurt. You may need to refresh the page.

From: BigStriper
Date: 18-Jun-17




Thanks James,I'll try that.

Kurt

From: Vaguely
Date: 19-Jun-17




The total possible score for the shoot was 260. If anybody was wondering. There were 3 bonus targets worth 9, 9, and 7

From: Clydebow
Date: 19-Jun-17




The one for only 7 was the hardest! LOL!

From: Jim Casto Jr
Date: 19-Jun-17




"Go to 5-8-10 scoring, that seperates the good shooters from the great shooters"

I think that's the whole point of this shoot. It's a bowhunters shoot. Their scoring a kill or nothing allows good shooters to compete against "great" shooters. I like it--I like it a lot. I wish more "traditional" shoots would adopt it. The bonus targets makes enough separation to my notion. Beside the IBO and ASA have the great shooters covered. :^)

From: Darkarcher
Date: 19-Jun-17

Darkarcher's embedded Photo



I tried for both the 9 pointers and got the harder one. That 7 pointer was a straight up "hell no". I had so much fun. Got 12th place which for me just confirms i am improving over my 2008 score of "just happy if i hit foam".

I was using a fox triple crown i traded for about a week prior and some gt trad 600 blems i got off ebay 3 days prior. It was shooting so good i put the ILF rig away and went for it. Winning score was 218 and i will be shooting for it next year!!!! Great shooting, and more importantly tons of fun. Hope to see everyone there again next year!

From: Darkarcher
Date: 19-Jun-17

Darkarcher's embedded Photo



From: Darkarcher
Date: 19-Jun-17

Darkarcher's embedded Photo



From: Darkarcher
Date: 19-Jun-17

Darkarcher's embedded Photo



From: Darkarcher
Date: 19-Jun-17

Darkarcher's embedded Photo



From: BigStriper
Date: 20-Jun-17




I think you are right Danny about that little Badger for 7 points being the hardest shot. I'm happy with the way they score the targets,it is a great shoot and a good turn out.

Kurt





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