From: Birdy
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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Well I was recently told that since I have a shorter draw length (26") I should steer clear of longer bows. Somehow they won't give me maximum performance.
So then how long is too long? I have been eyeing some nice vintage bears that are 62 inches but now I wonder if they are too long.
anyone have some opinions or experiences to share on the matter?
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From: Mpdh
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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There are bows that are too short for long draws. I don't think there is a bow in existence that is too long for a 26in draw. You'll be just fine with a 62in bow.
MP
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From: Dkincaid
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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You are over thinking it shoot whatever bow fits your grip and weight range. It's really not as complicated as most folks make it. If you are at a level to truly appreciate maximum performance you will have learned exactly what you want in a bow. Most folks like me can not shoot to the bows full potential anyway
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From: Msturm
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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You will be fine with whatever bow you shoot well. You obviously won't be getting the maximum power out of it, but that is ok if you hit what your looking at. I know some very good archers who shoot 66-68' long bows and have a 26.5 inch draw.
Msturm
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From: AK Pathfinder
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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Even someone who draws 28 inches won't get the max out of a bow…The next guy will draw it 29 and get a bit more. Find a bow that has an acceptable cast at your draw length and go have fun with it!
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From: arlone
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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I agree with Msturm. Most likely the vintage bow will be weighed at 28" draw, so if you draw 26", remember you will loose 2-3#s per inch of draw, but length of bow shouldn't matter.
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From: tecum-tha
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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With 26" draw length normally comes a shorter body frame. Depending on your preferred use of the bow, a bow cannot be ideal. It will make no differencee on a flat range, but for treestand/blind work and shooting with vegetation in the way, a shorter bow will most likely suit you better. It will fit your bodily dimensions better. I draw 25.5 and my go to bows are 48" to 58" long. The 48"-52" is far better in treestands and blinds than the 58". The 58" are better for more open terrain (out west). My fist formula for bow length is: draw lengthx2+(4-6"). Would give you a 56"-58" bow. Plenty of good 58" older recurves or hybrid longbows out there. You can go shorter with the recurves. For example the Kodiak Magnum with 52". Just my 2 cents worth...
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From: Scooby-doo
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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Never saw the difference in a treestand, I have shot 68" bows out of treestands and no issues, blinds are different. Your short draw will not matter much as there are few bows that are made draw specific. Borders, Caribow static and a few others. Shawn
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From: bwd
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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I have a 26" draw and started out, and mainly shot 56" bows for for several years. As the years went by, and about 75-80 bows later, I gradually moved to 60" bows, and that's where I'll probably stay. I wouldn't kick a bow, that was a good fit for me, to the curb because it was 62" long.
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From: Viper
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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Birdy -
Most Olympic style shooters with draw lengths in the 26" opt for a 66" bow. That might not be optimal for a hunting bow, but if all your asking about is shooting, longer is usually better and there's no way a 62" bow would be a problem.
Viper out.
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From: dean
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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For those who shoot with a natural cant, a longbow can get to be too long, because of string contact to the body. Some longbows will shoot a little faster in a shorter length for shorter draws. Some recurves will shoot a little bit faster in a longer length with a shorter draw than a shorter limbed version of the same bow. It all depends on the design, but arrow speed differences will not be enough to matter all that much.
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From: Catsailor
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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Dean brought up a good point that sort of veers from the question. In addition to Deans comment about canting , an additional consideration is hunting from a tree stand. You can limit your coverage of shooting capability if youre canting your bow.
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From: jk
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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Why is it important to get "maximum" from a bow? It's not impordtant. Irrelevant, in fact.
What's important is getting what you want from the arrow's flight.
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From: timex
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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i also have a 26" draw and mostly hunt from trees im shooting a 60" timber hawk have a 58" kanati ordered and dan toelke from Montana bows recommended a 56" pika if i find one used im gonna try one also
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From: GF
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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I'm 5'4" and I've shot nothing but 62" recurves from 1990 ( when I got into this) until last Christmas. Since then I've added an R/D Longbow at 62"... and one at 64".
Never had an issue shooting out of a tree stand, and my primary is a climber with a shooting rail.
YMMV
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From: Jay B
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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Shoot what you're comfortable shooting. I once had a guy tell me, " I never knew I was doing it wrong, until somebody told me!" This dude killed more deer with a 68" bow and a 27" draw than most guys could dream about. If you're happy don't change a damn thing.
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From: Terry J
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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I have a 26" draw and shoot a 62" bow with no performance issues to me. I do prefer the shorter length bows with my favorite length at 58", its just feels better to me but that may be just a personal preference with little to do with performance.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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First of all, bow length is not an indicator of performance at short draw. It's the limb design that dictates performance. I've seen 66" bows with shorter limbs than a 58" bow, so whoever told you that just doesn't know what they are talking about. Look at overall design, and pick what shoots well for you.
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From: bigdog21
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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Length will not make that much difference in preformance as long as it is built for your shorter draw. If you buy a used bow built for 30" draw then yes it will make a difference you will not be getting the full working portion of the limbs. The longer the bow the more stable and forgiving it gets. 70" would be fine if built to work at you draw length.
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From: MississippiBelle
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Date: 26-Apr-17 |
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My 21st Century longbow is 70" and my draw is 26". I have no problem with it (except in my treestand but that is because of the railing on it). Marsha
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From: longbowguy
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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I shoot mostly 70" bows with both longbows and target recurves. I often let newcomers try them, and they work fine. I was very surprised how well they work at first.
Example: I was at a fine 3D event and a man and his 10 year old son were in my group. The boy had a mediocre beginner's bow but was shooting it pretty well out to about 30 yards and having a great time. Then we came to an African lion at about 45 yards in a beautiful golden meadow setting. I could see the boy was discouraged because he had no chance to shoot that far.
So I handed him my 70" Howard Hill longbow, marked 45#@27", which I draw to about 50#. He was able to draw it to his short draw length with a big effort. So I told him to try the shot. He missed, but he reached the distance and was delighted. I looked at his father who had an odd look on his face. I figured that he realized he was going to have to shell out several hundred dollars for a Hill bow. At least they would both be able to use it. - lbg
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From: BOHO
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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Shoot a 68" bow and shoot a 60" bow of the same weight and type and see if you notice a difference.
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From: Bowlim
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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There is a difference between a bow that is designed to be longer for 26, and one that was designed for 28 and you will be shooting it at 26. It won't be tragic, but the guy who advised you against going long was onto more than most people here.
Olympic bows as an example, are available up to 70 inch, in standard components. Recently 27" (vs. 25") risers have become popular and you can get even longer combos. But most of the shooters using them are pretty tall. compared to avg. height of 70 inches for men, would take you up to 73-76 inch tall guys as the median, depending on limbs. Comparatively a 2 inch draw length change could take you to guys 65 inches in height (assuming nicely expanded draws).
So yeah a few inches increase in height does lead to different dimensions in a bow. Or you can make like a Gangsta who wears the baggy pants because they live with girlfriends who don't do their laundry and buy their close from guys who sell one size only, boosted clothing, door to door, rather than clean their clothes. I mean, why not?
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From: S. North
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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Not to change subject. But I really am surprised at how many of us have 26 draw. I have 27.5. And I always thought I must be doing something wrong. But I'm comfortable with my set up
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From: Bernie P.
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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If you want to learn (AKA) separate fact from fiction.Get a copy of The Traditional Bowyers Bible Volume 1.The chapter on bow design is a real eye opener.
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From: gluetrap
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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have a 24" draw and agree with all above. would add a little more preload will help a shorter draw performaaance wise. for just shooting I like a 62",but I am too clumsy to hunt with anything much longer than 58". I preffer 48 t0 56.....ron
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From: fdp
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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There are VERY few bows, custom or otherwise, that are built draw length specific. Typically a given model from a particular builder has the same length working limb regardless of the draw weight@ designation. There is SOMETIMES a difference (depending on what bow you are looking at) in the working limb length between different overall length bows in similar models, but that isn't always the case.
For instance, it is no big deal to build a 56" bow with the same length working limb as a 60" bow bow shortening the riser. For instance, the riser on the 60" bow may be 20". 1/3 overall bow length. The riser on the 56" bow would be about 18 5/8" representing the same percentage of riser. By lengtening the riser to 24" in the 60" bow, the working limb ength would be shortened to the same dimension as the working limb in the 60" bow. Conversely, by shortening the riser in the 56" bow to 14 5/8" you end up with the same working limb length as the 60" bow.
Consequently, you really don't know how efficent the bow will or won't be at a particular draw length without knowing these measurements by either speaking with the builder, or looking at the bow yourself.
Working limb length can also be changed by a combination of manipulating riser length, and tip wedge length (if the bow has them) to move and shorten or lengthen the working limb. But, that isn't done very often. It would require the bowyer to have the multiple forms, for the same bow, with different percentages of the form dedicated to different riser lengths.
Takedown bows can be manipulated the same way, using a combination of riser and or fadeout length along with tip wedges if applicable.
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From: Tommyhawk79
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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No such thing as too long unless you cant drag it through the woods or shoot out of a stand with it.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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Then there is that thing where a 66" target bow, pulled to 25# @ 24" was used to shoot a 500 out of 560 on a field course....and that was over 40 years ago. C'mon you guys. You can't make any blanket statements like "short draws need shorter bows." It ain't so and it never has been.
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From: Bowmania
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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Adcock once told me that his fastest bow was the fastest bow at 26, 27, 28 etc. Meaning that his fastest bow was 64 and if compared to his 60 inch bow with both shot at 26, the 64 was still faster.
Was that specific to the ACS design? I don't know. I do know that longer is always more accurate.
Bowmania
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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Probably I should sell my 68" Hoyt bow since I only pull 27".
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From: fdp
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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I don't think it is specific to the ACS Todd, I think that's the case with ANY design personally.
I believe that is the reason that for instance the Martin Hunter was the same design for so many years. Same with the Super Diablo, Jack Howard's bows, the Savage Deathmaster and many other bows by many other manufacturer's.
I was just posting the working limb length information as an example of what's required to do that.
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From: GF
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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"Then there is that thing where a 66" target bow, pulled to 25# @ 24" was used to shoot a 500 out of 560 on a field course.."
AND let us not forget the bow that Larry Hatfield built which set flight records in both the #50 and the #35 weight classes...
Seems to me....
If you were to build a form for a bow - let's say it's a longbow to keep it simple - and there's a working portion of the limb close to the riser and a non-working portion out towards the tip... Only difference is the length of the non-working portion.
For any given draw length, the longer bow will flex the non-working portion less, so it has to recover less in order to return to brace height; likewise, the arc through which the tip must travel (from full draw to brace) would be shorter. Seems to me that that should get the arrow off the string more quickly.
And not-for-nothin' but when I asked him, Larry did mention that the Venom is a shade faster than the Viper, which comes out of the same form, but the Viper is finished at 64" vs. 66" for the Venom. And he said that the Viper is a shade faster than the Savannah, which is 62"...
So I think that maybe as a rule, the speed that you get out of a bow is a function of the ratio of working to non-working limb length....
But I also have it in my head that the direction of limb tip travel has something to do with it, because if you want to pull the "slack" out of a released bowstring, that will happen fastest with the limb tips traveling directly away from each other, as they do on the hot-rod compounds.... which would explain why a long riser might provide a speed advantage over a shorter riser using the same limb....
So the way I see it....
Up until you hit a point where the ratio of non-working to working limb length is so high that the working section is just overloaded by the leverage, a longer version of a given bow should be faster, regardless of the length to which it is drawn.
So you hit a point at which a bow is just to long and clumsy to deal with, but short of that... knock yourself out!
FWIW, the Viper (at 64") is as tall as I am, and at that point I do find that I'm running into a little bit of interference with the string on my body, so it may be my warmer weather hunting and target bow... or I may learn to shoot it more upright. Or both. It's a fantastic piece of equipment no matter what...
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From: dean
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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Norb Mulaney tested that kinky longbow in two lengths and found that the longer version came in slightly faster. I have seen a variant that has less to do with with length and more to do with tiller. I have seen hill style bows that do way to much work down closer to the fadeouts and not near enough in the outside half of the limb. Not only is such a bow more touchy to grip torque, but it can also be noticeably slower. My favorite longbow is 68" for my less than 27" draw. The tips are slightly faster tillered than most longbows. It also happens to be my fastest, sweetest, and most accurate standard riser Hill style bow. It came out to be as fast, softer in the hand and more accurate than a 66" Schulz Legend that was 6 pounds stiffer, so I sold the Schulz. It also beat a similar 64" Big River, that I also sold. However, I do at times shoot with an aggressive cant, a 68" standard riser and a 66" reverse riser is my length limit to avoid body contact with the bow string. It is possible to easily shoot any proper length longbow from a tree stand with a canted longbow, the only limits would be the limb clearance and too much body contact to the bowstring. Guys that have wide shoulders and short arms are probably the only ones that would have my problem with longer bows. I had lots of 70" heavy bows, I acknowledged my position limits and worked around it by not sitting flat on the ground, which forces me to hold the bow nearly flat to the ground.
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From: tecum-tha
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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Plenty of custom bows are made draw specific. That is why the bowyer recommends a bow length. Every ILF hunting rig can be made draw specific. For a 26" draw, would you recommend long limbs on a short riser or shorter limbs on a longer riser for an equal length bow. Which one will be faster and which one will be more accurate? That is how many custom bow builders ensure that their limb design works for a shorter draw. They will shorten the riser and will adjust the limb pad angle slightly. They have that in their recipe. A recurve bow that does barely open up when you reach full draw is not getting the benefits of the recurve design. The same is true for a longbow, which is too long. You will not stress the limbs to their ideal allowable stress level and thus will move more limb mass with less acceleration length. This only applies to bows of the same design. Will they shoot an arrow. Yes. Will they shoot it to the best ability of that bow? No. And yes, you can shoot longer bows from treestands. But I will be able to make good shots in many more positions with a shorter more maneuverable bow. If the bottom limb is in danger of interfering with the treestand/tree and you will not be able to shoot at a nice buck at an ethical distance, you will have to suck this up. Example: 10 point walks in to the tree stand to 7 yards. Before that, never offered an ethical shot angle. Could not use the 58" longbow due to the bottom limb would have hit the ladderstand. Next day, took the 48" Korean and that shot would have been easily possible. And good luck with a longer bow from a standard ground blind. Will not work nicely, your shots will be severely inhibited. As some people on this thread said: you have to work around it using a longer bow. My opinion: You don't have to work around it because you have a short draw and can use a shorter bow comfortably Sometimes shorter is not always worse. Also helps with wood arrows. Shorter arrows are easier to keep straight, lol.
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From: dean
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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One other little observation, I formerly looked at short hybreds as recurves with the tips broken off. So I got my wife one, was I surprised. It doesn't even act like like a short recurve, smoother, more accurate and just as fast as a good recurve at her draw, probably easier to use use out of a tree stand. I can say that deer do not like that little bow at all, she is deadly with it.
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From: JamesV
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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My wife draws 26" and over the years she has found that a recurve 54-56" works best for her. Her longbows are 58 and 60".
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From: Birdy
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Date: 27-Apr-17 |
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Wow this thread has given me a lot to think about. So upon asking the guy who told me to watch out for longer bows to clarify he said that with some longer bows I may not be getting into much of the power stroke? So if a were to short draw a little on such a bow I would notice a significant reduction in cast compared to a bow that I was drawing more fully into the power stroke. He also said some bows such as static tips might not open up enough at a short draw to engage the bow fully.
Some of this goes a bit over my head though.
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From: Babbling Bob
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Date: 28-Apr-17 |
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I also have a 26-inch draw and have shot several 52 to 69 inch recurve bows for years with no issues. I'm sure there are some designs and bow lengths which a bow maker could provide assistance with if you purchase a new bow.
Some of those old target bows of the past had short limbs and real long risers, which may be why I might not have noticed any preferable bow lengths for my 26-inch draw. I just always thought the long risers in those old recurves, like a Tamerlane I had, were not as good looking as the shorter versions of the same bows. Another example is a 1962 63-inch Kodiak Special I currently shoot. I like the looks of its length better than the 66 inch and longer lengths of the same bow, but would bet any length of that model bow would shoot just fine at 26-inches. I don't think too deep on it, I just shoot what I like to look at or how a bow feels in my hand.
Some of those takedowns look really nice, both the old magnesium risered ones of the '70's and the new ILF's and new Bear bows. Think I would get some real long limbs on one of those and not sweat the draw length. Still keep a 52 inch Red Wing Hunter around that my last boss gave me for shooting critters.
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