One arrow with 3 bows.

Full length FMJ 300 spine with 175 up front.

1. Roseoak ACE marked 50@28. 2. Bear Takedown marked 52@28. 3. Fox Maverick weighs 45@28 on my scale

Just shot all 3 in my basement. Shaft shows weak with all 3.

DDave

By "weak" do you simply mean that your arrows are hitting right?

By "arrows" do you mean "bare shafts"?

What is distance? The arrow/shaft may not have straightened out before hitting target?

Bareshaft. Hitting nock right at about 12 feet.

DDave

For me that would be a false reading I draw 30 and shoot a full length arrow and 300 would be way stiff. I can make. 400 work with 250 up front at those draw weights 500 works for me with 30" arrow and 125 up front as well.

Unless your arrow is 33" long, you are getting a false reading. Anyway, bare shafts are not a good indicator of perfect spine. You just need to have them it the same area as the fletched shafts. The feathers, vanes are part of tuning that brings the flight straight. And that's assuming your target has the same consistency from shot to shot.

My first bet would be grip strangulation. Try again with an open hand.

False positive or negative, what ever that means. But flight of a bare shaft means nothing - most of the time. Impacts with bare and fletched eliminate a lot of the false readings.

You'd be better off with .500 even .600. I shoot 50 at 29 and my whitetail set up is .620 with 285 up front.

Just ask yourself this, if my 50-52 would tune at .300 what would I use for 60 pounds?

Bowmania

Doesn't nock-right indicate stiff? Or am I forgetting that you're shooting left- handed?

Nock right, nock left on bare shaft isn't the issue since they can't correct at all. The key is to get them hitting the same spot as fletched shafts. Right here is why bareshafting causes more headaches than anything else. False readings due to the arrow unable to fly straight since there is not means of guidance. The back will follow the front though, which is why it's a "where they hit" thing.

GF you are correct. POI left with nock right is stiff and as it should be in all three cases,if right handed. The comparison bare to fletched is the true test though. Like you recently discovered you need distance. >>>------> Ken

GF you are correct. POI left with nock right is stiff and as it should be in all three cases,if right handed. The comparison bare to fletched is the true test though. Like you recently discovered you need distance. >>>------> Ken

I shoot a 300 at that weight, but drawing over 31 inches. Sounds way too stiff for 28".

Thought you knew about wifes tails Dave that bare shaft is unnecessary?

We aren't shooting them at targets or critters so why bare shaft? All fake Trad news.

I shoot a full length 300 with 175 point out of a 56# at29.5" bare shaft hit with fletched out to 25 yards. I kinda doubt you are week but screw in a 100 grain point and a few other different weights and see what happens. Fmj as skinny shafts so they would be closer to center.

Interesting that nobody has yet asked me about the strings even though I chose to title the thread that way. And my draw length with those bows is a bit over 30 inches. This thread is about making spine assumptions without having all the pertinent information. Of course nock left weak is a lefty result. Sorry guys but bareshaft results at 12 feet tells one a lot about proper spine. The fact is I mostly shoot 300 spine arrows with bows in this weight range. I have tuned a lot of bows this way. And I shoot a lot of bareshafts to check my form.

DDave

So do tell about these miraculous strings!

I was about to order some shafts, but maybe I should get new strings & check my work, first....

The string on the ACE is the one Brandon sent with it braced to about 9 inches. It is Fury 16 strand. The string on the Bear is also Fury from Ten Ring Strings braced about 7.75 inches. The Maverick wears a completely unknown endless loop string. It is a low strand count. The bow has always performed very well with it. Brace height around 8 inches. Wool puffs on the first two, small polar fleece on the Maverick. And thank you for asking.

DDave

Ah was confused by the title. What is the as string? Allen shafer string?

The as snuck in there when I was not looking. Just one of those glitches with my phone. No way to fix it on this site. No edit feature.

DDave

If you say 300's will tune with a 50 pound bow O.K., but what would you recommend for a 60-70-80 pound bows? The charts recommend 340 to 300. Maybe Fury strings can't be used on that poundage with out folding up or busting the arrows. If they are Dacron strings only,then there is no longer an advantage to a 75 and up pound bow. We can put Fury on a 50 pounder and be good to go for Cape Buffalo or what ever. Technology is changing fast and there is so much to learn. I can't keep up,but I love it,now I can go after the big five with my Widow. >>>------> Ken

Even full length they would need 425 grains of point weight out of most 50# bows. Hell even out of a 60# compound full length they would be stiff with 175 up front. Throw any chart you read out the window. 50 pound bow drawn to 28"s you can use .500 spine cut to 29.5" with 275 up front and you will be good with the 50#ers you mentioned. The Fox go with a .600 cut to 29.5"s with 175 up front. Shawn

The fact is there are better string materials coming soon. My 61 pound Tuktu EX would shoot 908 grain Dangerous Games at 155 fps with BCYX, and Rhino is a bit faster. I would not feel underbowed pursuing Cape Buffalo with that combo. Although the arrows would now be 250 spine Widowmaker at more like 165 fps. Tougher arrows with outserts.

DDave

So what string fiber are you using Shawn?

DDave

New Mercury material from BCY features higher modulus SK99 Dyneema. Should appear in braided fishing line soon eh.

DDave

I have been using strings from Chad using BCY X. I also have dumped the Flemish strings on my recurves. I can not see or hear any advantage from them. I did see a touch more performance from the BCY X but attribute that to no stretch. An issue we have here in the land of dry heat and zonies.

Matters very little with carbons as long as it is some form of FF. Dacron makes a bit of a difference but not a lot. The crap about strings making a big difference the bow being cut a bit past a 1/16th of an inch and one being 3/16ths is just that, crap. Put enough point weight on carbons and you do not need to be that close. It is just people never use enough. Look at guys like RC, he kills tons of stuff, I kill tons of stuff, RC shoot something like 48#s and he loads up .500 spine with 325 grains of point weight and I know guys who use a lot more point weight out of 50# bows and get great flight. Lots of pig hunters I know shoot 50# bows drawn to 28"s with 29" carbons and weight them with 425 up front. Oh and I am shooting a 47# recurve right now with .600 spine cut to 28.5"s and shooting 190 grains up front and could shoot 225 and still get perfect flight. Shawn

So Shawn you have done a lot of testing then with several of the new fibers at draw lengths of around 30 inches? Because my results, and Rooty's as well, vary rather widely from what you are proposing (he shoots rather shorter carbons than I do but with Barbee grade Rhino strings he learned to build in his conversations with Rick). Rooty long ago standardized on 300 grains for all his carbons. You may think we are couple of lightweights from Canada who do not do much arrow testing. You would of course be very wrong. And btw you seem to have missed my request that this thread be debate free. Of course I never expected that, only put it there to see who was paying attention to details. The other things I was looking for it who has taken a closed minded position on what works without any real evidence. I am getting a pretty clear picture there as well. In the end you will shoot what you shoot and I will shoot what I shoot and it is all good because we live in the free world for now.

Not debating the issue at all just stating the facts!! shawn

Shot a 50@26 selfbow 7/16ths out from center with an over spined arrow (65 lb 27" long/23/64ths/145 gr Ace) with a B50 string at 7 yards at a medium IA buck. Arrow flew so straight blew right thru him like he wasn't even there. Been shooting 8 strand 450+ endless strings for a long time, thinking about going back to B50 :)

Can someone enlighten me??? From what I see here no one is ever going to shoot AS string, because it requires too stiff an arrow or Camodave has to learn how to tune. Sounds kinda like he may know how to tune except for that nock kick discussion.

By the way, if you've tuned by impacts and your right handed and your bare shaft still flys a little off, nock left means weak.

Bowmania

Two things: 1 - The "as" in the thread title was accidental and has nothing to do with Allan or his strings

2 - Allan (Ten-Ring Strings) has a LOT of happy customers, near as I can tell, and they seem to pretty particular people who know their apples.

Rip that tug boat rope off there and skinny it out with padded loops and she will win dancing with stars.

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