Hi Guys:

Does anyone hunt with original ancient flint points? Not current production - the real things.

I have quite a few and am thinking of upgrading to the real thing.

What are your experiences?

Thanks!

Authentic arrow heads are a national treasure of sorts. Save them for your kids or kid's kids to enjoy.

Yes they are a treasure indeed! I appreciate the sincerity of your reply.

However, I believe that my son and grand kids are not very interested in the old stone points, or me either. Either I hunt with a few or eventually they will all end up being sold to someone who is passionate about them.

So, I am going to hunt with a couple. I am very fortunate to have quite a few old artifacts. Arrow points, knives, spear points, bird points, beads, and some fossilized dinosaur eggs (yes that is really true!).

Sorry to press the subject but I too have found authentic arrow heads over the years. However, each one had either the tip or base broken off. If you have ones that are pristine, in my opinion, that is a rare find. If you hunt with them chances are you too will break the tip or tail off. For reasons hard to articulate, that antiquity will be lost forever which I believe is unfortunate. Just my opinion.

Thank you for the reply. I am honored that care enough to stand up for antiquity! And I agree with you. I appreciate a good discussion.

Yes, I have some that are pristine - like just received from the stone-age Cabelas. I have had most of these for about 45 years and know where they came from.

About a year ago, I showed them to a friend who is very into this stuff and has found MANY points. His reaction shocked me - he said they were beautiful reproductions! He does not believe they are authentic because some are so incredibly nicely made and the quality is so good.

It has always been a goal to make a self bow, a simple primitive arrow, and hunt with a few of these points. Maybe I should learn a new trade and knap a few heads to hunt with. I have a bit of good hard flint from the ancient quarry at Flint Ridge here in Ohio.

Best wishes! Matt

Got to shoot a buffalo using a bow from the 1800's and an arrow that was preserved with the bow and handed down three generations. We rechipped the point with a tine from a deer horn. Shot the buffalo from about 4 feet, horseback, double lunged him and was a quick kill. Did that for an NDN friend who has the hide and head from the buffalo in his house, displayed with his great grandfathers bow and arrow. Didn't have any doubts at all about whether that would do the job. Had been done over and over many years ago.

Matt, like Larry said, if indeed they are original, after so many years in the elements, they should probably be pressure flaked to reestablish a sharp edge. But the one I tried to do that with didn't work out too well. It seemed like there was a patina on the outer surface and in order to remove it along the edge and get it sharp, at best, it would have been a good bit smaller, so I elected not to molest it.

If you have a good quality artifact that is sharp enough I so go for it. I have bought broken artifact points for .50 each at a shop in Texas and reworked them into usable arrowheads.

Forgot to add the one and only deer I killed with a stone point was one that I made out of flintridge material.

2, 3 or 4 blade?

And angle do you sharpen them at?

And WHAT angle do you sharpen them at?

If you have real, pristine original points they belong in a museum. Hunting with them would be like wiping yourself with $100 bills. If you can't see the significance of them, then sell them to someone who does and buy some reproductions to play with.

There are literally thousands of them in museums, documented as to what tribe and region, etc., etc. And, they probably have hundreds more kept in storage where no one will ever see them, save for some researchers with permission. There are still plenty out there to be found, and I wouldn't hesitate to use one and not feel like I'm violating anything. I even think the maker of that point would appreciate the idea of someone actually using it.

Here in our river valleys, you still see them from time to time, and many were picked up and put in boxes...never to be seen again, barring a sale that brought them out. Kinda up to the individual what he or she wants to use them for. I'm of the mindset that there would be some good karma in those.

I would use them it would add to a great store of the old heads being used again. and if lost someone else will get a chance to find a arrow head and tell there stories.

I have to agree with George on this one. It's not like they only made a couple and you'd distory a lost treasure. I've never lived in an area where they could be readily found but you can bet if I had a bunch I'd be out there trying my best to take a deer with one. It's no different than wanting to take a deer with your granddad's old rifle!

or destroy…Fat fingers!

Fisher, I have spent thousands of hours in the wood since I was a child and I've never found one here in MA and NH.

If I did I would not hunt with it. I'd probably look at it everyday and just appreciate it.

I'd look at it and wonder abut the man who made it and how it was used.

Jawge

My farm was just south of flint ridge in Ohio. One of the old trails that brought settlers to Ohio went thru my farm. The natives used to ambush settlers there from the boulders along the trail,(my farm was covered with huge boulders which in itself is the rare part for Ohio) which is state route 204 now. My one field along the road had a ton of arrow heads from where the natives shot down from the boulders on a hill and their arrows landed in that field. And I've sure chased settlers across the field since there were heads found out to about 150 yards from the road. I took some to Ohio state to learn something about them. One of the profesors wanted permission for him and some students to hunt arrow heads after I plowed one year. They also found a bunch of them. They're not rare, at least not in Ohio.

When I lived in Wyoming I found a bunch of them intact. Broken ones and chip were almost common in some areas of the Red Desert near Rawlins, especially if you found and old fire ring.

I had an anthropology professor at the University of Wyoming when I went there date one of them at 2000 to 3000 years old. I don't think I'd shoot one of those!!

What surprised me was how SMALL stone arrowheads really are. He pointed out to me that what many people who find them are calling arrowheads are in reality spear points.

One summer when I was a student there I worked on collecting plant and soil samples for an EIS that was for what is now called the Rockefeller Corridor between Teton and Yellowstone National Parks. One of the professors who was also on that project found an obsidian spear point. This was more a work of art than an artifact!

Have have literally hundreds of arrowheads, spear points, axe heads that I called the Milwaukee Museum about. I asked if they'd want to look at them, display them, etc. I told them I know what farm they were collected from.

I was told that unless I knew what depth they were found at, the year, yada yada yada they were of no use to the museum.

After that conversation, I'd use them in a heartbeat.

If you don't have any experience in flintknapping then you would most likely be using dull heads, and if you are a flintknapper you will probably want to use your own, Old heads that have been laying around for 5,000 yrs are usually duller than a hoe handle. Just my .02 worth. Bob

From what I read, a flint head killed Otzi. BTW Billy Berger has a great article in the most recent issue of TBM about obsidian heads. He stated in that article that stone scalpels literally sharp enough to cut through cells, many times sharper than metal scalpel.

I've made a lot of points over the years! Even sold some for others to hunt with! Have not yet hunted with any, but think I'll build some up, mount them with some pine pitch glue and kill a wild pig in the next month or so!

Most Native American tribes east of the Mississippi were likely to set up villages in areas where game was relatively plentiful. Many of the shards, and other heads you find are on village land, or nearby to where they were. I'm pretty convinced that many or most tribes had folks who just made arrow heads in a sort of cottage (tepee) industry. I'm sure there were shooting grounds as well, not just arrow heads that were shot at game. Around here we find mortars, pestles, drilled rocks used for opening wild nuts, spear and arrow heads, and even chunks of pottery now and then. These were villages, not random finds.

George, you would find Mesa Verde National Park very interesting. I suggest wiki it. I've been there and the Park service has done a great job. Govt money not wasted there. It's an ongoing archaeological investigation. The museum has a wide array of artifacts including weapons and points that are found within the area. Riveting to say the least for anyone interested in paleo. A tough short lived people they were. Forty was very old.

The farm we hunt is along the Illinois River in west central Illinois and the pre-historic Mound City Culture was quite common there. In fact on of the farms my farmer friend there owns had the U.of I. do a gig on it years ago.

Off topic. Any of you guys that pass through sw CO and have some time really should check out Mesa Verde.

I have a spear point that I found in 1965. In my opinion its edges are not sharp enough to be used on an animal anymore. I would not be against someone using a sharp, recently knapped point to hunt with.

MP

Thanks for the very interesting responses! Your experiences and insights are quite varied.

I think Larry Hatfield's adventure wins first place! What an experience!

I would hunt with one, keep my shots close, ,just because you hunt with it,, does not mean you will ever shoot it,, right,, but taking a game animal with a head several 1000 years old,,, seems worthy to me,,

Not all arrowheads are thousands of years old tho. They figure most found on my farm were from late 1700's to early 1800's.

I suppose it's quite different too when you consider eastern natives that had earlier contact with metals through trade with European immigrants. Dating can be tough due to lack of written history too, so many times you have to go on outside contact with the native tribes.

I agree with George..

Go for it. It's still just a rock just as it was when the points maker found it before shaping it. Antiquities laws are for preserving those jobs for scientists not preserving the actual heart of the matter, reusing the head in my opinion would be the greatest honor to the original maker and to you aswell. I believe George had a similar feeling on the matter

I found a big spear point while striped bass fishing in a river in the Northeast last spring. The winter tides had uncovered it after hundreds of years. It was likely broken off while a local native was spearing fish. I gave it to my wife to add to her collection of natural items that she shows her second graders. She had a Native American and Nature specialist visit her class. He wanted to know how on earth she had big white tail antlers, a moose shed, the spear point, arrow heads, Native American fire starters, all kinds of bird feathers and the like. He had "artifact envy" over her collection. I told her that was just one of the many paybacks for letting her husband out of the house from time to time.

I had a sizable artifact collection that I gave to my granddaughter a couple of years ago. As in any collection you have the crown jewels, the average items and plenty of so-so stuff.

I wouldn't think of hunting with the best stuff but anything else is pretty common, dime a dozen stuff and of no historical significance. Pressing a head back into service would give an arrow a lot of mo-jo in my opinion.

Many of the artifacts folks call arrow heads are in reality used as knives. Most of these have broken points which is most common as when they are used and pressure applied to the cutting edge, the delicate point will break. At this juncture a very sharp edge is created similar to that radical cutting area on a Tanto knife. Generally projectile points are much smaller and the tang thinned enough to be hafted.

I wouldn't use them, odds are you will only be disappointed when:

A: It bounces off the deer B: It sticks in about 1.5" and breaks off

Hunting stone is pure art and not something you just do. They will wound a lot more deer than proper steel heads ever will. Unless of course you are a master knapper and get them incredibly sharp. I've heard a lot more horror stories than good ones amongst my primitive circle of friends. Like the fella above who has knapped and sold a bunch of stone, but never used them. Stick with steel and enjoy your point collection as is.

Pearl, I gotta agree with ya. Unless you guys know how to knap, your setting your self up for failure. 99.9 % of heads that have been laying in the ground for hundreds or even thousands of yrs are DULL,DULL, now who uses dull heads. I have been knapping for 10 yrs, and killed a deer with my own set up, lets just say there is a big learning curve when it comes to stone points. To me knapping is like Zen , you will never be the master. Bob

I have recovered the one and only deer I shot with one of my stone heads. It was made from Flintridge material and sharp. I also went carp shooting last spring, shot and recovered the only fish I shot at with primitive equipment, self bow, stone head on a black walnut footed shaft. As result of me entering it into the Michigan Bow Hunters contest they started a new, primitive class in the competition.

Of all our artifacts that my wife and I found she found one that is ready from the field to back on an arrow. It is a thing of beauty, has a serrated edge and sharp. BUT too nice to hunt with as far as I am concerned. Stays in the frame with the others.

Paleo 'stuff' is way the heck more interesting than crown jewel 'stuff' to me.

My crown jewel stuff was Paleo for the most part.

I had one crown jewel left, it was pot I dug way back before there were laws against such stuff. We dug up a burial with 6 pots and 3 trophy sculls around the head. The way we found it was some arrow head hunter had dug a hole and didn't recognize what he had gotten into. It had rained and the ends of the pots were visible in the hole.

So, I had this bowl with no provenance of how it came into my possession, laws had changed and I was afraid to keep it. I decided my best choice was to donate it to the local museum. They took it in and immediately put it on display.

I got a free pass for a year to the museum for my family and I and they got a pot to round off their display.

The museum is the Indian Mound Museum in Florence Al if you want to look it up.

Here I am pointing to the bowl in the display. It is the one with the chip out of the side.

Some of mine I collected over the years in Pa.

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