Just kinda curious... plenty of conversation about GPP and all o' that - "use enough arrow", Fred Bear's rule of nines, etc....

But how much do you actually use?

My old aluminum set-up was a 27 1/2" 2018 with 125 up front, and I'm pretty sure they came out at right about 500 (shooting around #53, I think).

And now that I'm thinking about setting up each bow with a half-dozen or so matched aluminums, I think I know what sizes should work, but finished arrow weights could end up anywhere from about 400 to 525.

And somehow it's stuck in my head that I shouldn't drop under 450 for a hunting arrow... but I don't want to give up speed unnecessarily, either, and I'm sure that I'm not getting much over the mid-#40s out of my #50@28" Viper, so where does that leave me? Would I really want to hunt with #47 at 8 GPP?

What do you use?

31" 675 gr. cedar out of a 50# @ 30" bow

Hap

8gpp is plenty for whitetail as long as you are around 40#s, so 320 grains. I killed quite a few deer and some coyotes with a 42# Widow a few years back ad was shooting arrow that were 7.8 gpp. Perfect flight, sharp heads and put it where it is supposed to be and you will be fine. Shawn

Mine are approximately 542. CX heritage 250 32" 125 gr VPA 3 blade BH with a 9" wrap from onestringer.com and three 4" parabolic feathers. Inserts and nock weigh approximately 12 gr each. They are shot out of a 42#@28 62" Bob Lee exotic Bicentennial drawn to 29".

In short: for me about 16 gpi I believe.

650 gr arras. 15 to 17 GPP depending on which Bow.

590 gr, GT traditional 600's, steel inserts, 200 gr up front. 56lb, Kanati longbow.

540 with a 55# Bear Takedown

520 gr. With 52# bow 27" draw 2016 and Douglases fir.

lol, you don't want to know what my Pierce shafts weigh, but they've out penetrated my 525 grain GT shafts in ballistic gel, and have already accounted for one gobbler this season...

Mine for this year are right at 645 grains. 29" 2117 legacy shaft, glue in/on insert, 200 grain Grizzly Instinct broadhead, 6 3/4" reflective wrap and 3- 5" parabolic sagittarius feathers. Coming off a 54@28 Toelke Pika drawn to right at 28".

Regardless of bow weight I won't hunt with less then 500 grains, just a mental thing.

Mine for this year are right at 645 grains. 29" 2117 legacy shaft, glue in/on insert, 200 grain Grizzly Instinct broadhead, 6 3/4" reflective wrap and 3- 5" parabolic sagittarius feathers. Coming off a 54@28 Toelke Pika drawn to right at 28".

Regardless of bow weight I won't hunt with less then 500 grains, just a mental thing.

640 gr / 9.41 gpp for my 68# @ 29" draw.

Rick

About 485gr. GT3555, 30-1/2", factory inserts, 125gr Magnus Stinger 2 Blade, with 3-5" shield cut feathers. Out of 50# Osage selfbow.

565 grains with carbon 525 grains with POC All my bows pull + or - 52#

470gr. to 520gr. depending on which bow I am shooting. I shoot fairly low poundage, so I am always over 10 gpp, usually in the 11.5 to 12.5gpp range.

500-530gr

29" .500 gt 50 grain insert 175grain vpa

or 29" 2016 with a 175grain head and standard insert

610 grains, 30" Arrow , 54# longbow

seems like I often end up with 500-575 gr...usually out of a 55-60 lb bow

I'm right there with shade mt; my arrows run 525-575 and my hunting bows run from 52-58#...so I'm never far from 10 gpp.

610 grs. With 32" shafts pulling 30.5" on 50 lb. Longbow.

Sounds like my arrows need to go on a diet! The woodies I make typically come in at around 750 grains. Sure they're slow but they don't stop for anything.

Darren

It's typically a "what I like" thing and nothing more. I typically shoot 2016 with 145 on most of my bows so that's about 460 to 480 depending on length. I have yet to not get complete penetration, and many pass through shots on whitetails. Arrows that fly perfectly are the ones that penetrate the best, and that goes for all weights.

If I remember right...

475gr 1916s on my 45# Kodiak Hunter

580gr 2117s on my 65# Bear TD

My arrows weigh whatever they weigh. Not too concerned about it for most purposes.

Folks seem to forget that there are and have been just as many very successful bowhunters that liked lighter arrows, as those who liked heavier arrows. So there's that.

550 if using carbon and 600 if wood.

640 using grizzlystik and 150 massia heads

I try with 600 plus or minus as well myself too varied 50 grains either side of 600 normally.

A low of 500 and a high of 650.

"A low of 500 and a high of 650. "

Same here, bows from 43 to 55#

380gr from 38# Border Hex7.5 with 30" dl. No worries about penetration.(grin)

Mine for my recurves are 160 ace heads. Plus the shafts are swagged to eliminate the shaft insert and broadhead insert to bring the weight back down to a little over 610 gns. I shot 2213's for a while with my side plate built out to tune them. They came out the other side of deer at a higher speed than my 2219's I believe but they bent to easy so went aack to 2219's.

I shoot 627gn Sitka spruce out of my longbows also with 160 ace heads.

All my bows are 59-62 or 63 lbs.

They average about 500g

btw I have a 32" draw so my arrow weights are a little heavier because of length.

560gr from 49# @ 28" and 29.0" arrow....11.4gr/pound

500 cedar , sitka spruce,, and 700 on the birch and maple,, 50 to 60# bows,,

400 grains. 29" gt 3555. 145 grain bh. Get pass-thrus on elk/mulies. 55# bow.

Last years deer was shot with a 45-50 tapered cedar that weighed 450 to 460 grains tipped with a Hunter's Head.

As to follow up on my 400 grains arrow weight.... 500 grain would be ideal to maximize efficiency, but this is how my arrows fly true (with a sharp bh of course). The animals never complained about a light arrow before expiring.

1. enough that they quiet my bow some 2. enough that they blast through a whitetail 3. similar to the others in the quiver

oz

Mine are ash with heavy snuffers and come in just over 700 gr.

My current hunting arrows are 530gr, shot out of a 49# Omega Imperial. I have hunted (and would again) with shafts as light as 440gr out of my 59# Bear Montana.

475ish #50 bow.

One person's comfortable hunting distance is another's crazy, unethical shot. And also, what is a "heavy" arrow. From my experience, there are many things and combinations that work very well in the woods...on game, that some folks here would tell you are just not right. Those of us who have done it, tend to know what will work well.

So this is pretty interesting....

A lot of people here will tell you that 10 GPP in a bow that runs high #30s and up will do fine on a deer.... A #45? Absoloodle! But below 450 grains... not many actually seem to go there. Or if they do (and to George's point), they're choosing not to be given any crap about it...

Bluesman - I hear you; but I went to carbons about 15+ years ago for two reasons:

#1 was that I was challenging myself with longer shots on the 3D course, and most of my bad hits (and ALL of misses) were related to high or low, rather than right-left. OK, easy fix - go with a lighter, flatter-shooting arrow. I was already shooting >500 arrows/week at pretty well randomized distances, so I figured my eye was about as dialed in as it was going to get...

So #2 reason for carbons was that as I went lighter and lighter with aluminum, their expected half-life diminished faster than the weight. Like Gary (or maybe it was Frank) said the other day... Those 2018s are Da Bomb for durability. Hoo- boy!

But it turns out that all this time I've been shooting arrows that are really too stiff; never noticed an issue because of big fletchings and higher FOC with the tapered arrows, but I'm getting more serious about tuning these days....

I think I'm going to let my lightest bow drive this bus.... If I want to set myself a 400-grain minimum, then that's about 8.5... Guess I'll see if I can get the bow quiet enough at that...

About 400 to 950 grains.

DDave

700 to 760 grains depending on which bow I use.

31" arrows (aluminum and cedar).

Bows = 71#, 75#, and 77#

440 gr out of a 60# bow never had a problem

With a scale , 525g from my 40-52# recurve, and 625g from my 53-59# longbows , learned a while ago how far off estimates can be .

950, Dave????

Whooooooo-eeee!

Keep those numbers comin' fellas - I'll compile them somewhere. Be good to know poundage as well, but if you re-post your numbers let me know you're doing it so I don't count you twice.

And now for something close to purely subjective: is there a particular GPP number which is a tipping point for noise production? May be different for LB. s recurve vs. static. I don't know, but the aluminum shafts and arrows I've been shooting up lately (courtesy of Wild Bill)... they just seem a lot quieter than the carbons...

I just took out my grain scale and weighed what I will be hunting with the next few years. I am shooting a RER CXR that is 45#s at my draw and my arrow weigh exactly 376 grains. So just a tad over 8gpp. I just got this bow about a week ago and I shoot it very well. As George has said, people flame people for shooting certain distances. If the shot feels right I really never concern myself with distance. If the green light goes on I will and have shot and killed quite a few deer over 45 yards with my curves. I have also passed plenty of shots at 5-10 yards. I think people put way to much thought into some things, get an arrow that flies perfectly that you shoot accurately with a shaving sharp head and go kill something. Trust me the critter could care less what your arrow weighs! Shawn

Well ya made me go look. Right now my goto longbow is shooting 550gr cedar arrows... which works out to 8.3 gpp... with 190 Ribteks up front. No worries.

42# longbow. 30" Heavy Hunters with 300 up front, right at 700 grain. But then I have several other bows and various weight arrows, that's just what I'm using now.

Dang! Some of you characters go BIG!!!

I guess I'll have to invest in a scale so I can find out exactly how much it really weighs, but both the Viper and the Vortex are really liking a 28" tapered POC with 145 up front.... There is supposed to be a #5 difference between the two, but that one arrow sure couldn't tell you....

OTOH, a just-long-enough-to-shoot 2016 seems to hit 6"-8" higher at 50 feet. They get there quick! I'll have to verify that the points on them are 125s and not 100s...

I've never shot arrows this light....experimenting for a 3D setup. I've got 315grn Entradas shooting GREAT on a 41# recurve. Fly fast and stupidly accurate. I might get addicted to the speed

My normal setup is more like 8.5gpp-9

450 grains or about 9 GPP. IMO, just right.

50# bow, 540 grains, 10.8 gpp.

54@28 and my arrows are a shade over 700 grains (250 grain points brass insert and aluminum footing). I plan to go a little lighter with my next batch of arrows, same axis trad 340 but maybe full length and 125 grain point to be close to 10 gpp. That being said, the heavy arrows are great for hunting, 7 for 7 leaving leaving an exit wound on whitetails with a variety of shot angles. Bow is really quiet too.

500 grains, 31" GT 5575's with 175 up front out of 55#@28 bow (I draw almost 30")

590 gn including 225 up front out of a 46 lb Super Grizzly drawn to 24.5 inches.. Slow enough to run down, but shoots well.

I'll say this again....arrows flying perfectly will penetrate better than arrows that don't. It doesn't take much of a wobble to create an issue either, and if it isn't hitting with all the onus on the tip, then penetration may not be so good. On deer it likely doesn't matter much...they are thin skinned and small boned.

My 480'ish grain 2016 will go through a deer like a hot knife through butter. I've only had one deer ever that didn't have an exit hole, and that one was shot almost straight down from a tree stand.

600-650 total for at least 15 years. Equals 9-10gpp.

Up with arrow weight and down withbow weight. I don't think most realize there IS a point of diminished returns and a point of no returns.

IIRC, Gary, you've said that the point of diminishing return WRT draw weight is #65-ish...?

What's your take on arrow weight, or do you prefer to speak to GPP? How many is stupid-heavy? How many stupid-light? I'm pretty sure that you've shot enough arrows through enough chronographs with enough different arrows to know.....

George - If I'm not mistaken, you have a very average draw length and shoot very average poundage... And 480 for you is what, 9-ish? If a guy told me he wanted to shoot 480 out of a #40-#45, I don't think I'd discourage him; and if I were drawing #60, my only concern at that weight would be whether the bow would act up and get noisy...

So guess what - perfectly ordinary is perfectly adequate. Who knew?

Just an observation here, but I think the only thing that's at all unusual about your set-up is that most people don't realize that they really should be shooting a shaft that is perceived as being as "light" spined as a 2016.... Don't know why, but for years I thought that those were 1 short step up from the Kiddie Arrow category... and they're exactly what I should've been shooting all along. According to Stu's calculator, I should have them cut to come out at 450 grains and the dynamic spine will match the bow to within 5-6 ounces.

750 grains.

Matt , keep in mind there are three different types of shooters here , target guys , guys that's just like to shoot , and hunters . We all have very different needs and set ups , and there are a few bow fishing guys here too ,there arrows often are 1000g at least mine used to be . I try to keep the arrow flight the same from each bow so that my impact points and arrow drop are similar .

685g , 300 point, 50 brass insert , Carbon Express Heritage 250 from a 51@27 ACS CX 3Dh,, Frank

just with what little testing I've done and for my draw length I gain very little after 62lbs. But in this case we're talking arrow weights. I don't have the facilities any longer to do that type testing so I don't know how much gpp that would be. What little testing I did on penetration came out with lighter faster arrows in the 480 gn area penetrating better than slow heavy arrows(2419 aluminums) on soft targets. I use what I already consider heavy weight arrows at 640gns out of my 60lb bows. so all this doesn't matter to me. I won't go higher because I like the durability of 2219's plus they still penetrate good and have a usuable trajectory. But common sense should tell you that with these people using 40lb bows and stacking heavier and heavier arrows on em that eventually the arrow weight is going to be so many gpp that its gonna be too slow to help penetration. Actually you could put such a heavy arrow on a bow that the bow would NOT shoot it at all. But that would be a huge exaggeration to prove a point. If I were shooting 50 lbs my arrows would be probably under 500 gn's. I like playin it safe. Jack Howard did a lot of testing and came up with 2114 weight arrows winning every time out of his weight bow. Also if you remember osb also showed us his test on video and in his case the lighter faster arrow out penetrated the heavier.

Btw a friend and ex leatherwaller shot some of my 2219's out of 40 lbs and watched a couple of em bounce off my bag target. His 2016's penetrated it quite well.

My carbons and trusty 2016's tend to run at 9gpp , and 475-500gbs is plenty for me . My woodies tend to run a tad heavier but that's because I am trying to use up my large stocks of 160-190 Ribtek's and Ace and Snuffer 160's.

Unless it's Asiatic Water Buff , I am sticking at 9-10gpp .

"Btw a friend and ex leatherwaller shot some of my 2219's out of 40 lbs and watched a couple of em bounce off my bag target. His 2016's penetrated it quite well."

Yeah, and I'd bet that the 2219s were hitting the bag broadside!

Anywhere from 450 to 575 depending on the bow and game I'm hunting.

I like to stay around 10gpp. Randy

A 480 grain shaft will have more punch at 60 then 45, and fact is that falls within the mystical 8 to 10 grains per pound parameter, even with 60#. Jack Howard shot 2114 arrows out of bows to 60# or so, and no one can question his hunting prowess. They seemed to work okay in the quiet category for him, but that comes with tuning. Just because you are arrows are lighter, doesn't mean they need to be noisy.

635gr Herritage 250s with 50gr brass inserts and 225gr points. Was shooting 600gr, but they flew a tad stiff. This is my hunting set- up for my 51# Predator. The arrows fly nice and also fly fast.

actually gf the feathers straightened em out pretty good,lol.

400-475, depending on arrow config for one of a handful of bows.

"actually gf the feathers straightened em out pretty good"

Yeah, big feathers can do that, but they must've scrubbed off a TON of speed, no?

If there's one thing I've figured out after 25 years of doing this wrong… It's that it's actually pretty easy to convince yourself that you got it right!

I've been very successful hunting most north American game and very successful competing indoor and outdoor. I may not have it "right", but I did ok.

Oh and Matt, that was more of a joke than anything. If you've shot bag targets much you know almost any weight bow and any weight arrow can bounce off once a packed spot gets starting inside one.

31" Easton xx75 about 415 without head @ 31" carbons that weigh the same. 50# Tigercat

29"bop, cedar or fir, 565g out5 of 52-65lb LBs and RCs.

300 spine, 577 grain carbon, 31" draw. 11.33 grains per lb.

29"35/55 trad gold tip ,100 grain brass insert, 125 grain broadhead with a 100 grain steel adapter in it. Probably around 580-600 grains. 52 @27 ASL and big feathers. RC

490 gr, 32" @ 49#, can shoot less, but like my 200gr muzzy's.

I don't actually worry about weight given I shoot 65 lbs, used 160 heads, and draw 30 inches. Anything that shoots through the bow will get the job done. One of my set ups is 300 grain heads and 2219s.

bluesman, a 2219 with 300 grain heads is some big medicine, and a lot more than 9 grains per pound even with 65# he is approaching 12 gpp. And bows will handle a lot more than you think they will. Howard Hill was known to use as little as 7gpp on some of his big bows. Only modern folks claim that bows are too fragile for less than 8 gpp.

right now 540 grains out of a 46# bow

Sometimes 490 grains out of a 47# pound bow... why the change up??

Because the 46# bow's shelf is cut 1/8th past center and the 47# bow is cut to center. changing the tip weight by 50 grains lets me use the same arrows for both bows.

Gg i missread your post. Back then i tested about everything to do with archery except penetration. Back then it was common knowledge that any arrow that shot well would work fine. So i never tested penetration except maybe just noting how fast an arrow blew threw a deer. We didnt have carbons so you really couldnt go too light.

As far as gpp goes it very deceiving so I ignore it mostly. For example I hunted elk a lot with 8.4 gpp and killed a moose with 7.8 gpp. Sounds light huh. Those arrows were 640gn 2219s and 8.7 metric mags out of 76lbs and 1 year 82lbs.

The manufacture of my bow says to use 8-10 gpi so I try to stay with in that range. I shoot 31" .600 GT's with 150 grns up front and blow through deer no problem with my 45# @ 29" widow.

I also have some GT .500 spine arrows with 200 grn up front that are a little quiter but the .600's fly more true if I have a crappy release.

Same as my target/ 3D arrows. 500 GT blems, 29.5 length 125 up front. 475 grains. 45 lb Toelke whip. I like to practice with the same weight I hunt with.

Well, it depends upon what you intend to hunt. For eastern whitetail, black bear and swine, 400 grains from 40 pounds should be fine. For large western game and eastern moose 500 from 50 would be better. For Alaska, Africa, Asia and Australia 600 grains from 55 seems to do very well, but 60 pound draw weight would be better for those who can shoot it accurately.

From another point of view, on the tournament circuits the fellow who shoot 40 to 45 pounds seem to shoot better than the fellows who shoot 50 to 60.

For pachyderms, I might consider 700 from 70, but I believe I would choose 450 grain bullets from a 45 caliber rifle. - lbg

My bows are in the 50-55# range. I usually fall between 9.5-11 gpp.

My Big Stick Assassin is around 53# at my draw. The arrows weigh around 570grns.

I don't "choose" the arrow, my bow does. You will do fine if you follow that guideline.

"I think I know what sizes should work, but finished arrow weights could end up anywhere from about 400 to 525"

That will kill deer just fine all day long. I like heavier bows but that's personal preference not necessity for deer or even bears. I wouldn't go hunting large bull elk or moose with that bow weight, but again that's just me. But I'd hunt anything in north America with those arrow weights. People use heavy weight arrows in case they hit bone is all I can figure cause soft tissue is easy to pen. Thing is if its still in the deer where it can move and give, a paddle bone(scapula) is hard to pen no matter the arrow weight and ur not gonna do it every time. So why give up trajectory to get an inch of penetration on a bone more often than full penetration. My way is, practice and then just don't hit the paddlebone.

My 55lb mongol I use an Easton axis trad 400 cut to 28.5" with a 175 grain tip and standard insert for a total weight of 508 grains give or take.

My 50lb mongol I use an axis trad 500 at 29.5" with a 150 grain tip for a total weight of 460 grains.

Scott

my DEER only arrow for my compound is total arrow weight with BH, Aluminum Shaft is 395 grns. I weighed them. For my Longbow, 50#s I have Aluminum & Woods BOTH total weight slightly "over" 500 grns.

45+ Years of archery, had to quit in 2000, never weighed an arrow. I did very well bowhunting and competitive shooting. seems silly to me.

Hill and lots of others used under 8gpp. To try n find 11gpp for an 80lb bow was unheard of. Plus they would have wondered why since whatever flew best was the norm. No one weighed arrows hardly. Lower weight bows used heavier goo because again they used what was available, which would have been heavier hop on light bows. Arrow weights weren't used by design but by whatever weight spined right.

465

XX75 1916, 125g Woodsman head. Total arrow weight of 448 grains, 9.95 grains per pound out of a 45# recurve.

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