So....I am obsessed with accuracy and hand in hand with that, form and arrow gpp.

Your expectations of accuracy for now might be a pie plate at 15 yards. And you should work on that until it is as easy as writing your name.

I set up a new combo this morning. Hoyt Horizon with Long SF Carbon Foam limbs to make a 70" set to 41# @28", Stilldub BCY-X string. Goldtip Trad Blem 600 with 75grn points (Stu would hate that) to make about 8.2gpp. These vary from 326-346 grn for some reason. I need to sort them.

I shot a walk back (String walking) from 10,20,30 and 40 yards. This is my 'expectation' when I shoot an arrow. Not what I always get...but if I DONT, I know what my error was because I know where the arrow SHOULD go when I shoot to my abilities. That's the key. Not luck, not 'keep on trying until you find it'.

This was my last end of the morning. My 40 was low, but that is a good 40 for me. And it turns out, that was the heaviest arrow.

I never thought of having different colored nocks for each distance. ;)

Just teasing. Nice group!

Looking good John. My expectation is to never miss, but reality is somewhat different. 8^). On Saturday I had four arrows at fifty yards that would have been in the 9" pie plate. The second four I need two pie plates and a desert bowl. Still, I like to think my next end will be the best ever. Stay the course.

Bearing in mind that I can only stretch the range to about 50 feet in my back yard..

Ever since I started shooting at the Bamboo garden stakes, I find that I fully expect to hit it with every shot. I won't claim to know exactly why every stray shot goes wide, but I'm usually aware of a bad shot before it hits the target. So I don't let them get to me; just settle in more deliberately for the next one.

And if I could consistently replicate your top 3 with 3 shots from 50 feet, I would be very pleased with my improvement.

I expect to do the best I can,,

there are a percentage of my shots that are not in the kill,,

I am working on lowering the percentage of bad shots I have,, working toward "perfect"

I am concentrating on making the bad shots better,, and not fooling myself by concetrating on the great shots I make,,:)

Get 'em all in the same stump.

Actually my expectation is to kill animals that's it. Every shot is different and targets don't move and you can bust nocks and smash sides of arrows it means very little in the wild there Dude.

Most can see a nock once arrow is in target to aim or look at but there isn't any on animals and birds so you need to know anatomy best bet.

Ah...so are you in the "I don't shoot at stationary targets at known distances, but put fur on a moving target and I'm deadly" camp :)

I know my animal anatomy just fine...I am NOT good at getting good hunting shot opportunities. But now when I do, I can confidently take the shot.

I have a solid 20 yard squirrel shot now (and yes, I have done it..and the squirrel was even still ALIVE when I did :)

But all of that wasn't my point. I think that many people spend their time arguing about what is trad or getting their bow quiet by using heavy arrows and wrapping their whole bow in beaver fur....but they don't really know where their arrow is going to go.

And that is something that can be fixed.

My expectations for accuracy depend entirely on the equipment in my hands.

Anywhere from "pie plate" at 20 yards with a longbow off the shelf, to "pie plate" at 70 meters with my Olympic rig.

For me, my expectation's are a baseball size target out to 20 yards. I hunt a lot of turkeys and hogs so this keeps me into the boiler room.

My expectation is the same with all my equipment. Between 17 and 25 yards I should be able to hit 20oz bottle caps or be in a baseball sized group. About 80% of my groups are baseball sized from my 43# target bow to my 57# hunting rig and all bows in between.

Ryman Cat is working on being the Frisky of the east, a legend in his own time, or something like that.

JSD, you're shootin very well. I see that often on fs. That being said, my expectations are probably decidedly different than yours. My focus is on hunting, and no I'm not one of those "I can hit fur " guys. If I was I wouldn't bother to shoot my bow every day. I shoot 40 & 50 yrds for the fun of it but under 20 is where I seriously work on my accuracy. I'll say this much, if I could not consistently hit a six inch target at 15yrds I'd hunt with a different weapon. I try to keep it in 8" at 20.

It does depend on equipment used. Look up and down the line at Vegas or the Olympics. Most any serious competition you will see most using the same thing. That is seriously good shooting for any one with out a release and sight. The main reason folks claim to be better on game they have no idea how far the miss was and only see the the results of a good shot. Memory is very selective. When you continue to shoot at a paper target the accumulation of holes can't forget. Stumping is great practice but the same apply s. A arrow may skid closer to target. Miss a flower wide it may go yards past the intended but you think, well it was close. If the target is on a slanted surface it is very deceiving where the arrow ends up. Of course I think ever shot was very close but when I shoot paper I know better. If you can't hit paper or a 3D target at known distance, on level ground, when it doesn't move. Welllllll >>>-------> Ken

My standard, which varies from year to year and month to month, is how far I can hit a cantaloupe sized object. Most years it is 45 yards, some years out to point on, 54 to 62 yards depending on the bow. Right now it is 35 yards.

My expectation is the same as quiverman's, but reality is more like pie plate groups unless I am really in the zone.

OK, so if we're talking about Hunting Accuracy, that's different....

Deer hunting, I won't take a shot if I don't feel confident that I could hit a softball.

And I was just thinking what I'd expect from myself on an Elk - like a volleyball, maybe? - and I realized that I basically only take hunting shots when I'm feeling confident that even a badly-executed shot would still be hitting the 10-ring... but I'm always aiming for a spot the size of a quarter. Or smaller, if I can pick something out.

And I always expect to hit what I'm looking at.

2bears sure raised a LOT of good points on paper targets.

RymanCat is the classic Legend In His Own Mind!

Joe

I can say this with 100% truthfulness. There are maybe 20 guys out of a thousand on here that can shoot a walk back that well everytime. I would do fine at 10, 20 and maybe 30 but 40. If I shoot a lot from 40, I can keep them on a pie plate everytime but I may need to shoot 40 50 arrow a day from that far to do it consistently. After a week of shooting yes but just to step outside and do a walk back like that, as I said maybe 20 out of a thousand of folks on here. Shawn

This thread is a trap,lol. If your expectations sound too high ur bragging, if too low no ambition,lol. But ok here goes, I expect the 5 arrows to be touching ech other in most of my 20 yard groups.

I cant get past the sentence where you say a batch of carbons varies by 20 grains. I have never had more than a 4 grain variance and thats on arrows I painted.

Anyway, my expectation is 10 ring out to 32 yards on a target setup. I am happy to say I only achieve that expectation "most" of the time.

I have no expectations for target other than to ha e a good time. When I started having expectations I developed target panic. Now I show up and shoot let the chips fall where they may. For hunting I expect to kill the animals I shoot at.

Expectations: Premeditated Resentment

"This thread is a trap,lol. If your expectations sound too high ur bragging, if too low no ambition,lol"

Seems to be the case more and more these days.

I do a lot of my practice shooting at a 40 cm FITA target from 20 yards in. I use that target because the deer around here have gold circles on their chest with red rings around them. So I feel confident that if I can stay inside the red on the FITA target I will do well on the local deer. When I stretch it out to 30 and 40 yards I am happy to stay inside the blue. But the deer don't have any blue rings so I can only shoot inside of 20 yards when hunting.

I hit something every time I shoot. Sometimes it's even what I aimed at.lol

I pretty much always hit what I aim at. The problem is not aiming at what I want to hit.

I often wonder about "accurate" bows. You can string up a pool cue and it will shoot the same every time if you use the same grip, same draw, same form, and same arrow. Most every bow shoots right where its pointed. Its the pointing part thats tough.

At 20 yards I try and usually succeed in keeping shots in the 4 or 5 ring with my hunting rig. Most days I am pretty close to doing that. That is what I try to expect from myself.

No matter if you shoot 5 or 100, it is the first shot that counts!

THIS THREAD WAS NOT INTENDED TO BE A "TRAP" :)

I am guilty of stepping up to a giant water buffalo target at 25 yards and forgetting to aim and hitting a '5'.

"I cant get past the sentence where you say a batch of carbons varies by 20 grains."

Might have to do with bad scale or build problem. Glue variation?

I just weighed 6 virginal (never shot) trad blem 600 arrows that only varied 2gr. I was lazy and in a hurry: had hem built by Big Jim. 4" fletch, 50gr brass inserts, ez-pull points.

Maybe my digital scale is NFG...these arrows weighed 298.4-299.9

Jk, I have gotten 6 dozens blems with no problems. I love them. It's just this one batch. I even pulled the insert and nock and weighed just the shaft. There were three different weights.

I found it because I was having problems bareshafting.... the fletched were responding differently. Turns out I picked the heaviest arrow to be the bareshaft (oops).

I wonder if that arrow was mismarked

"No matter if you shoot 5 or 100, it is the first shot that counts!"

Only in some situations.

I can [sometimes] keep a half dozen arrows in a 7 3/4" circle particularly after I've warmed up. On a good day I can do that on the first flight.

After some brain damage , my goal have changes as the group got larger , and inconsistent . when I was 20-30 yr old splitting arrows was a daily concern , now hitting an orange gets me happy. when my group go's out to a mellon size I'll hang up the bow and give them away. today I shot 3 shots before I noticed there was no point on the arrow . I thought it was my form .

Some days peanuts some days shells. Go figure

huh...and here?...I shoot better with brain damage...go figure.

Cold beer helps dull the expectations ,but some times I get it right. That's what keeps me coming back day after day. I can repeat the mistakes all to well it's the consistency that eludes me.But the best part about shooting a ASL is there is always a tomorrow.

My only expectation is to get better in one aspect of my shooting each time I practice. Be it form, accuracy, or mental game.

working on hitting 9 aspirins in a row- got a ways to go :)

a long ways :>)

My expectation is to shoot as good as you guys

I shoot at distance where I get easy accuracy. Many days that is about ten yards.

I forgot to state in my previous post that the distance is 20/25 yards. [the half-dozen arrow posting.]

My shot expectations is my first shot. I always try to put my self in a hunting mode for my first shot. Like here comes the buck of my dreams at whatever distance it may be that day. 5 to 25 yards practicing all sorts of scenarious that could happen in the woods.

I agree completely. It does not matter how tight a group can be if the first shot is not on. My favorite method of practice is to shoot every arrow with a different position. When every I shoot a deer there always seems to be something that I need to do different, whether it is a timing thing or a position thing or usually both. Target shooting with a repeated same stance and timing has its place, but as a ground hunter, I accept that things will be different with every opportunity.

Well said dean. When I go stumpin', I don't shoot 6 arrows at the same stump from the same spot. Doubt anyone else does either.

Deno

My expectation is to be able to make a cold shot into a five inch circle with my hunting bow. No warm up. Walk outside and take the shot. Five days in a row, I take one shot into a five inch circle. This is a realistic practice for a hunting shot. I hold myself to what I consider my absolutely lethal range. Most of my hunting is with a self bow. This test has become a ritual for me the last few years. I remember when it was eight yards... Later ten, then twelve yards. I am at fourteen yards now - that is my lethal range - the distance where I am certain that I can put five cold shots into a five inch circle on five consecutive days. I practice shooting just about every day, at ranges out to forty yards and can probably shoot 210 - 230 on the 300 round most days. That cold shot is something totally different. My goal is to keep improving and I know that I can only do that by being completely honest with myself.

I was going to say how easy it is to push arrows into a target and take a picture but then I figured it was a bad idea.

H Rhodes,

When I am not doing the 'first shot', I do the same thing. When I walk into my back yard, there is a bale that I can shoot from about 25 yards that has 3 dots on it. I take a couple of shots from random distances as I walk up and there are obstructions I have to shoot around and a small hill I can shoot from.

That shot generally tells me how my shooting will be that day.

My softball size group at 20 yds becomes a trash can lid size group at 50

lol

Me too Bobby B.

JSD - you seem to really be on a quest to be the best that you can be. That is some good shooting! Good luck with it and keep posting so that we can see your progress. I have had several periods of complacency through the years where my shooting just stayed about the same. I think that it helps to challenge yourself and to try different things.

From zero to 25 yards I expect to hit the specific spot I'm focused on. If I do everything right and maintain my focus I do. The focus is the tough part.

Past that things vary up and down wise, but that's probably because I don't shoot all that much at distances much farther than that because that's not where my hunting shots are.

I do shoot at 80 yards and further if for no other reason than to see if my form is solid. If my arrows are in a tight line with the spot I aim for (left/right) even though I may not have hit my elevation (at that distance I'm well over my POA) if I'm not spraying them then that's a good thing.

My expectation is to shoot as well as when I shoot wheels...driving nails out to 30 yards.

I am by NO MEANS there yet, but that is what I am shooting for (pun intended).

Maybe...someday.

I didn't set out to try to be a pinpoint precision shooter. I just want 100% pie plate at hunting ranges. I figured out how to aim accurately but realized your aim is only as good as your form. (Your form is only as good as your aim too!).

What I have found is that WHEN the stars align and your form is right, it's almost like the arrow has GPS. It looks impossible when I watch the arrow fly where I wanted it to go. Fun thing to watch :)

"OK, so if we're talking about Hunting Accuracy, that's different.... Deer hunting, I won't take a shot if I don't feel confident that I could hit a softball..."

This.

Of course everyone wants to shoot nothing but robin hoods, but that ain't goin to happen.

I expect way too much from myself, but don't get aggravated if I don't do well, that is just the way it is.

I will shoot five arrows and put four of them in a five inch circle at 15 yards the fifth one hits ten inches to the right, I figure that must be a bad arrow, so I retrieve it and shoot that same arrow again and put it dead center, now no matter how well I think I have my form under control that proves that it doesn't take much to throw an arrow off, so if I can put five arrows consistently in a five inch circle at 15 yards that is good enough to accomplish just about anything as far as hunting or defending the castle.

as little as two years ago I had problems putting five arrows in the side of a barn....Ha!Ha!

PS: I have found that shooting a smaller target definitely helps with accuracy, you may not hit it but your misses will be in a smaller group than if you shot at a 3D target all the time.

This is just what I have found for myself.

Guess that makes 17.3 more of a basketball size then. Most guys I have watched shoot stickbowscan't keep them all on a softball at five yards let alone 17.3. A very few can, but most can't, not even close..

I shoot ten yards and less all the time. Why? That's where I can consistently hit a small target, like a softball. Truth be told that is really where most other men hit as well. If we all shot for an hour every day the story would be different, but most guys just don't shoot that much.

Bob, that is correct I shoot for an hour or more in the morning then shoot again at night, My dead nuts range is between 13 and 16 yards, any more or less than my accuracy expands.

I can't hit a pie plate at 8 yards but put me at 15 and it will be a different story.

I'm old my bod won't adjust to different ranges ....Ha!Ha!

It was funny...at the Twin Oaks Open shoot, the targets averaged 12-18 yards. I was shooting a new bow that I didn't know. Consistently hitting 10's in that range isn't easy. You get complacent. At home I had been working on my 20-30 yard shots but not up close. OOPS

I shoot instinctively. I can't consistently hit jack at twenty yards with the first six arrows. About two dozen in I'll settle down and have the sight picture. First shot lol not a freakin chance. Just another reason I shoot close range. ymmv

I moved back to Michigan in June of 2004. Since the move I've killed 22 deer (9 bucks 13 doe) with either a longbow or recurve. I only had to track one of these deer more than 75yds. I have buddies who say they can outshoot me most of the time. None of these guys have taken nearly as many deer. They're good on paper tho.

I have never shot a deer at farther than 20yds.

T4

I'm just the opposite Bob. If I'm going to nail it, it'll be on the first shot if I've got the focus. If I have to put 4 more there that might be trouble!!

But that could be more of a function of how I practice too. I typically work on my form in my basement at 5 yards or so where I don't even shoot at a spot most of the time, but just break down parts of my form and concentrate on those. It's when I get the Judos and go outside in my field that I start to pick spots, but I usually shoot one arrow and then go get it. It's my way of training myself to make that first/only shot count.

If I did have to shoot "on the line", I'd p*ss a lot of people off because I "reset" myself mentally after every shot, and that can take more than a few moments.

"They're good on paper tho". See, that is a foolish statement.

They aren't good on paper. They are good shots. You on the other hand are a good hunter. Two different skills that HELP each other.

Funny how it's not good enough to be good at what you're good at and let the other guy be better than you at what he does best.

But I can think of about 402 reasons for why a more skilled Hunter might not have filled as many tags as someone with weaker skills.... And not a one for why a poorer shot might be able to come out on top (consistently) in a shooting competition.

Lately, I have taken to working on my form and release at 10 yards, shooting one arrow each at the four outside small rings in a Black Hole target.

That is good practice as you get a lot of shots in a short period of time.

I do the same as Woods Walker when I stump. One arrow, then walk up and get it. Take my next shot from where I picked up the arrow. Only movement is one step any direction or pivot. Trains me for hunting.

The picture shows the type of accuracy I can achieve at 30 metres if I practice often and how I end up once hunting season arrives.

Being a good shot IS part of being a good hunter, especially at hunting distances that you usually encounter.

I think that maybe a more accurate definition of "hunting accuracy" and "target accuracy" is that hunting accuracy is being able to hit your spot dead on with the first shot when you are "cold", while target is more like being able to shoot shot after shot at a target with tight accuracy. Generally this kind of accuracy is achieved with crawling/walking/gapping/and other procedures that one must go through first before the shot which is fine when you're on the line and there's no "magic moment" when you get a shot opportunity and you have to shoot. I'm sure that many can and do both and my hat's off to them. I just find that for me standing in front of a target block and plopping arrow after arrow into it is mind-numbingly boring. I did it for years when I shot a compound (barebow) in target leagues.

This is 25 metres...I just look at what I want to hit, make sure my bow arm is always pushing, I have a deep hook, never stop drawing and I use a follow thru anchor.

That gives me what I consider acceptable accuracy.

For me it's when I shoot at a weed head and it disappears after the shot.

Exactly Woods Walker!

Other than the "thump" of a hit in a deer's ribs I like the "thwack" of a well arrowed stump!

Especially when they're small!

But NOT when the stump was behind your target ;)

JSD, accuracy is important, but if youre a crappy hunter who cares how you shoot. Fred Bear made a lot money selling his bows as hunting tools. Tamerlanes ever outsell Kodiaks? Im not looking for a fight, but I shoot because I hunt. I dont need someone telling me how accurate I should be. My numbers speak for themselves. I rarely shoot past 25yds because I wont shoot at deer at that range.

I once shot 5 rounds in less than 4" at 600yds off a bipod. I dont expect everyone to do this. My Grandad shot a six point on his 90th birthday with a Model 94 Win. He was paperplate accurate at best. I never once told him he needed to practice more. Its called respect.

T4 SOTIC grad

My favorite thump is when a hammer head hits a pheasant. One of these years I will stop jumping up and down like a kid when that happens.

T4,

No one told you how accurate you should be. I asked. I am a novice hunter and I know it. Threads like these help me know who's opinions to ignore on certain topics.

I won't ignore your opinions how to hunt.

JSD, I wont ignore you on accuracy. Heck, I dont ignore anyone. Everyone means well. Reread your second paragraph brother. It reads a little bit like "if you cant do this youre wrong". Maybe you didnt mean it like that.

Have a great day, keep shooting 10s

T4

I sure hope you stump hunters are getting your arrows back. I don't "stump" and never have, simply because I like my arrows too much. I've "roved" plenty of times though - with Judo points, shooting at pine cones, flowers and leaves - always with a good soft dirt bank behind them.

with my longbow, wood arrows I'm happy with this at 25 & under.

Rarely lose an arrow with judos but I make sure the shot is somewhat backstopped. Every once in a while an arrow glances off the top of a stump and goes for a flight.

I get burned stumping in my yard. It is eroded and sloped. A few days ago I took a shot at a dandelion at about 12 yards and the arrow skipped a good 40 yards and into the woods.

I agree limbwalker. I'm not shooting into stumps and rocks with my carbons when I can shoot 3 D targets

Between Colorado's front range and now New England, I'm not sure I've ever even SEEN a target with a "soft dirt bank" behind it!

Makes me think what a deal it is to belong to a club with 60 or 80-odd 3D targets set around the place... Even if we had some suitable/legal public land within an hour of here, I'd probably spend more on arrows every year than the club fees.

Or at least that's what I'm going to tell my wife ;)

Simple solution...don't shoot rocks! ;)

I like to rove in pine plantations...sandy ground and soft stumps.

Figured I'd post a pic of a cold group I just shot. I haven't shot a bow in a week. Sorry, my fingers got in the way of the camera. I was shooting at the hole in the center of the arrows. I measured the distance around the arrows and it was exactly 6". Bow was a bear black bear riser with samick phantom limbs at about 48@30 and group was about 19 yards. This is what I strive for when it comes to accuracy.

If we think we're good, we've given up...chickened out Vs our potential.

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