I've read so many posts here about hunting "the hard way" that I've lost track.

I'm sure that a whole lot of traditional bowhunters would rather hunt from the ground without feeders, with wood arrows, etc., etc.

I'm pretty sure we all dream about being able to "slip through the woods and arrow a deer" like we do in our dreams. But the fact is that this day and age the opportunities to do that are few and far between. So that means we either compromise that "dream hunt" by doing things that give us an advantage (tree stands, carbon arrows, metal risers, rests, plungers, and even compounds and feeders) - or, we do what most folks do and go down to the grocery store and buy feedlot beef.

So what I can't seem to wrap my mind around is someone who is willing to eat tag soup over and over again to be able to say they do things "the hard way" - while later that evening they are pushing a shopping cart down the meat aisle and filling it up.

Makes no sense to me.

I start every season out hunting the "hard way" and as the days go by I slowly increase my odds to the point that I know I'm going to put venison in the freezer for my family. Last year, that included a muzzleloader and a feeder at the very end of the season. But you know what? We're eating venison in my home all year, and I know where that meat came from.

Deer meat is good, no matter how it was taken.

Good post.

That is not the way I do things but it certainly makes sense to me. My favourite game meat comes from hunters I guide who are successful and give some of the meat to me.

DDave

If you can't fill your tags limbwalker, then I guess do what you need to. To each their own.

I start out the season with filling a couple of tags the main goal. On my land, and yes over bait. A week or two later I hit the public land and hunt mostly from the ground and baiting is not allowed. Last season resulted in three close encounters with nice bucks inside of twenty yards. One shot opportunity that hits a limb and missed. Loved every minute of both ways. Also enjoyed venison tacos last night. ;^)

I guess I look at it the other way. I can hunt the way I desire knowing the store has what I need if I'm not successful. I don't have to compromise my enjoyment and don't have to kill a deer to have a good season. To each their own.

What doesn't make sense to me is why it doesn't make sense to you. I think we have it all figured out that not many of us are alike or like to do the same things. Desperate times may call for desperate measures for folks who just have to kill something. It doesn't mean those others aren't good hunters, it means they are happy with who they are, not what someone else thinks they should be. I can kill one with the 30:30 if I'm in need of venison. So I'm one of those who frequently eats tag soup...actually it's usually a nice strip steak and not tags at all.

I guess it depends on two things, where you hunt and how good you are at it.

I take one to four deer every year with my recurve or longbow depending how much the freezers will hold.

I can't even remember the last time I bought beef at the grocery store.

JMO....

Dragging, skinning and processing a deer... There's satisfaction in that, of course - especially in the end product of your labors - but it kinda turns into work. Why rush through the fun part?

The private property that I have had access to here has enough deer on it and I am familiar enough with their travel patterns that up through about Christmas I can hang a stand and just about guarantee myself a filled tag within a half a day. There's one spot up there which is so reliable that I call it The Fish Barrel, and I avoid hunting it all season long. Then if I'm running out of time and I haven't yet had any luck that year, it's pretty much my hole card.

But given room to roam, why the hell would I want to sit on my arse in a tree all day?

I don't need to kill anything to prove anything to anybody for any reason, so I hunt in whatever manner is most likely to be the most enjoyable that day. Sitting up in a tree stand rarely makes for an enjoyable day; for me, it is sort of a desperation measure and I suffer through it in order to punch a tag by nightfall. And a feeder??? Are you out of your mind? Venison is expensive enough as it is! Why would I go and spend money to feed the squirrels and turkeys and raccoons when I can just sit where the deer are going to be anyway?

When I was a kid and went to spend 2 weeks at Grannys farm. There was a red game rooster that had shown up from who knows where but it had taken up with Grannys chickens. Every time Granny went to the barn that rooster would run her off. She said "I wish you boys would kill that thing ". Wesley and I would spend all night hatching plans of how we could ambush or trap the rooster. Then spend half a day sharpening sticks and making traps....It was two weeks of real life coyote and road runner type stuff. Two weeks ended with the rooster still alive. Wes and I spent the next winter coming up with new plans of how to get him next summer.... Well by the next summer I had a .22 cal Benjamin pump air gun. 15 minutes later old red was dead.

We spent the rest of the summer saying, "Granny, there's nothing to do, I'm bored"

That's when I learned the difference between hunting and killing.

Don't get me wrong, there are still times that I get out a gun or a compound to up me odds of killing. But it ain't as fun as sharpening sticks and coming up with a new sure fire plan.

I don't have any problem hunting from the ground with no bait, I see plenty of deer because I scout ahead and know where they are.

I don't hunt much anymore due to a heart problem, but last year I came within at least eight in one group and three in another and then one. had the opportunity, but wasn't hunting. I know where they go when the locals run their dogs...Ha!Ha!

Either we have dumb deer, dumb dogs or dumb hunters in our area, I'll let you pick which one.

I hunt by choice not by need, so I consider myself fortunate, that may be why I don't use anything but my skills and longbow and why I enjoy the experience more than any of the other folks who have to attract their game to them.

My hero is Larry Hatfield he is I believe 82 and still can hunt and rope horses and cattle, I'm 71 in a couple months and it looks like I'm having to cut back.

I have to agree with Mr. Stout

"the hard way"

"tag soup"

"Trad"

All terms that mean nothing to me and probably to many others.

Sitting in trees is boring. The idea of killing what I hunt for food never occurs to me. I'd rather eat beef than deer any day. Besides I get pretty much only one deer tag so why ruin the season by filling the tag?

I hunt on my terms and the challenge that I set. I'm fortunate enough that I don't have to eat tag soup and can afford the grocery store. Some years back I had to kill a deer or I wouldn't exist or so was thought.

If that doesn't make any sense so be it. I also enjoy taken kids out, and that in its self can cost a tag. But for me it's worth it.

And does filling a tag or ten tags every year make a better hunter?

X2 to each their own.

Ain't nothing better than a ribeye steak from a cow. Beef is king. My deer get ground up except for the back straps. I prefer ground venison over ground beef.

"If you can't fill your tags limbwalker, then I guess do what you need to. To each their own..."

More than a little condescention in that post. Jim, most years I fill my tags just fine thanks to a lot of hard work and experience. Come on down and hunt the local state WMA with me sometime and fill a few of your own. ;)

I guess I understand what some of you are saying - that you're happy buying beef and because you can, you choose your method of hunting to suit you and don't compromise. To each their own is right.

I just get tired of folks looking down their noses at hunters who choose higher % methods when they are just fine with someone else growing and killing their meat for them.

Wow. Sure can tell it's been a long winter! Between this thread and the more than merrier thread I think people just need to get outside. Do what you do, and let other people decide what they do.

And who exactly said that metal risers and carbon arrows make it "easier"? I sure don't see that connection having used both as well as my Hill style longbows and cedar arrows. One thing I have noticed repeatedly here on Leatherwall is the inability of some folks to live and let live. So what that someone else does it differently than you or I....what's the big deal? There is too much getting panties in a wad on here. Hunt the way you want to and let me hunt the way I want to as long as what we do is legal and ethical and satisfies our own moral compass.

John, there are a lot more tree stand hunters on this forum than ground hunters, so I don't know where all the turned down noses come from. Most of use were tree perchers at some point. I hunted from them to well into the 80's, and after tree stands became available, I used them for over a decade.

I think this is a two edged sword, since in your own words you say..."So what I can't seem to wrap my mind around is someone who is willing to eat tag soup over and over again to be able to say they do things "the hard way" - while later that evening they are pushing a shopping cart down the meat aisle and filling it up." With that statement, you're assuming we ground-hunters don't kill deer, and we should be using a better method. So it sounds like you're being a bit judgmental about us who chose to hunt from the turf. Que sera, sera. And as mentioned above somewhere, we get one buck tag in Pennsylvania, and I don't care a lot for venison.

I guess that makes me one of those who choose to spend more time hunting, observing, or whatever, but I don't regret a moment of it. I think as long as we are satisfied with how we do things, then it ain't nobody's biddness but our own. 8^) Just FYI, my son and his family are eating good venison this year that I got with my Marlin on the "first day o' buck."

I do hunt with wood arrows from the ground. I'm just no good at the still hunting thing so I hunt from natural blinds. Oh and I fill however many tags I need to each year. Up until 6 or 8 years ago it was almost always treestand hunting tho.

Seems as Clint Eastwood addressed this when he said, " a man has got to know his limitations"

You may as well enjoy doing what you decide to do. You're going to it anyway. It's called confirmation bias. To hell with those that don't agree, as long as you're not interfering with anyones right to do the same.

You got that right Onehair! it's pretty rugged where the critters live around here. I gave that serious thought as I do not know any "young" folks here that could help me hump a carcass out of the bush.

I have been fortunate in my life that hunting and fishing were not absolutely necessary to feed me and my family. I thank God for that. I know some are not as fortunate so I do not begrudge them taking game using "modern methods". Times are hard on a lot of folks here I know that.

I guess if the killing part of the whole experience to call yourself successful is what matters most then use anything you want.Why not try night hunting with a light and a 22. caliber rifle ? A lot do around where I live and I respect them a whole lot (not) If it is to hard to hunt the hard way and its only about meat then stay with a gun.

"One thing I have noticed repeatedly here on Leatherwall is the inability of some folks to live and let live..."

I actually started this thread in response to that mentality... i.e. hunting over bait. IOW - live and let live. If folks value a full freezer over "harder" ways to hunt then live and let live. That's what I'm saying.

Then came along folks twisting words and jumping to conclusions... ha, ha. Gotta love the 'wall alright.

Oh sorry I did not realize you were just trolling to stir up the pot for all us ignorant people on here. Live and let live ? nobody is stopping you are they ? Twisting words and jumping to conclusions,dont think so. Talk about arrogance, oh my. "One thing I have noticed repeatedly here on Leatherwall is the inability of some folks to live and let live" Include yourself in that statement.

I use a model 94 and find it quite satisfying.

It's the hunting part that is most important to me. Killing something is further down the line. What the heck is a Bowhunter going to do if he fills all his tags early? Michigans season lasts 3 months.

MP

Interesting thoughts Limbwalker.

Less avilability to large tracks of land, like the public land where I could "still hunt" or hunt along the ground without seeing other archers just five decades back. Could understand why some folks may now set up deer feeders and motion cameras on private land. Kinda like the persimmon patches and apple trees we hunted in the past.

Right now, my meat is hunted at the back of Fresh Market every Tuesday when they sell their ground chuck for $3 a pound.

I'm with Darryl Payne 100% on this.

There was no "twisting of words."

Better to admit failure to write well, than to blame Leatherwall for responses to what was actually written.

I see where Limbwalker is coming from. I have a new approach to hunting. I send out a scout to check property for vehicle-wounded deer. Then, when one is found, I get the call and go kill it. It puts meat in the freezer, and I don't even have to go through the trouble of hunting. It's a new level most will never attain.

Joe

Another Friskers fire starter on the way here we go USA.LOL

What don't you totally understand about any of this?

First of all its a brag to those who say whelp I got's to eat tag soup again.

My question is why even say anything? If you hunted hard or not its up to you to get him or are you not a killer?

Oh I don't use sticks anymore I use a cross bow now I'm better with it and got tired of shooting animals and wounding! All fake news and BS!!!!!!! Period!!!!!!!!!!!

ALL BS AND WE WHO ARE KILLERS SHOULD BE SICK OF THIS BS WE HEAR DAY IN AND DAY OUT ANYMORE! LOL

MAKE NO EXCUSES WHAT SO EVER AND LEARN AND SHUT THE HECK UP! GO OUT AND PRACTICE AND GET PROFICIENT AND LEARN THE ANIMALS AND GAME YOU PURSUE. You don't have to be the best shot or woodsman to get an animal. Just the right place at the right time and be proficient enough to make the shot and if it goes bad then find another animals to shoot. Sounds easy don't it and it is to a point when you get better at it. You have to be out there to be in the game or stay home and make paddy cakes with your woman.LOL

YOU HAVE ONLY YOU TO GET WHAT YOU WANT AND YOU CAN'T DO IT WRITING OR DREAMING ABOUT IT!!!!!!

For you guys that are killers just what do you think of animals that get run over and have seen the damages to the meat and trama done to them! You want to have to eat run over deer charged up animals? Not me not really fit for a dog and certainly not my dog.

You can eat all the garbage you want there Joe buddy boy.

Its pathetic anymore the BS and fake news that's in the trad world its left to wantabees. Shooting lame animals and eating them and calling them good. Talking and not having to show for it. Am I the only one sick of all this nonsense?

I doubt I am you want to talk about nonsense then save it for face book BS!

Joe you don't see a darn thing your blind as the pups go! LOL

I guess I been ornery lately but I been tired from doing it and making more history so those that don't can hate me more. I enjoy that!LOL

And proving to myself an old man can still kinda stay up with the pups. He needs the pups to help him out too though.LOL

Just saying. LOL

John, as long as it is legal it is ok with me.

Hunting over bait here is only allowed with landowner written permission, if I remember correctly so things are different here in NH.

So I am glad you are hunting the way you want to, John.

I am going you would allow others to as well.

Jawge

When I first arrive to the US I was wondering who are buying all the shit they sell at Cabelas and why do this people drive around in big utility trucks. After some time I guess I have the answer. This people are totally controlled by market forces and its all about image. Its easy to believe you need all the new shit if you don't know what you are doing.

KyPhil - so do I.

Darryl, you and jk are seeing what you want to see. That's fine. We all have our unique points of view. My post was really in response to those here who would say "I'd rather eat tag soup than hunt with (or over) a ..."

I'm just saying some of us would rather eat venison than buy store-bought beef. That's all.

Don't know why everyone is so concerned about what others do. I have hunted whole seasons with zero interest in killing anything. I just like to test my ability to still get close. My family hates venison is ok with elk barely . I could kill a bear every year in my orchard but no one would eat it. I mostly make jerky out if the animals I do kill and share it with others. Problem is I raise some of the best tasting beef around.

Whitey, if my family hated venison it would make my Octobers a lot easier but I'd probably be 30 lbs. heavier too. LOL

I'd probably spend my fall chasing Redfish on the coast instead of sweating and swatting in a tree stand on public land.

I don't care what others do until they start criticizing folks for their choices (stands, blinds, feeders, etc.)

We're all hunters here.

I meant to say...I am wishing you would allow others to do as well.

If we know what we are doing we can hunt anything from the ground with a traditional bow, anywhere. We have to believe in what we are doing and understand the logic of nature and the game we are hunting. Was fly fishing today, they come running asking what fly I am using. After they walk straight to the middle of the river pool and splash around with the last new of the year.

We all hunt for our own reasons...except Frisky who shoots road kill...and I never judge another for their choices as long as they are legal

If someone else looks sideways at how I like to hunt then that's their problem. Don't let it bother you John..

If we are "traditional" we don't work for government or corporations, or retire on govt or corp pensions...right? We're manly men and work for ourselves. Right?

How can anybody living on govt or corp nipples be critical of folks who shop like capitalists?

Newhunter, an infinite # of monkeys, given an infinite amount of time, can write all the great books too.

Folks have to realize that not everyone has access to good hunting ground. For those who do, pontificating about the way it "should" be done isn't received very well by those who don't.

I might get 3 days to deer hunt all year,, so I dont get much opportunity, or many shots,, I do my best,,didnt get a shot last year,, hope to do better this year,, and hope others have a good hunt,,

We don't learn to hunt on good hunting ground.

One doesn't need to have a lot of sharm to have sucsess at a horehouse?

I think it is funny to change your standards or lower your goals because you want meat(notice want, not need) big difference. I hunt the same way regardless of my want for meat. As far as not buying beef, well I kill 5 or 6 deer a year but I still love my beef!! People can say what they want but a nice strip steak or even sirloin is every bit as good as venison and actually better then venison steaks. Hunt how you want and shoot what ya want in todays world none of should "need" the meat. Shawn

charm

For me, doing it the hard way doesn't mean I don't come home with venison. YMMV

At my age I hunt for the enjoyment of being out in the woods. . If I get a shot at a deer that is just a plus. I ground hunt exclusively now with a self bow and stone tipped wood arrows and that challenge is also a degree of enjoyment for me. But the best part of my hunt is wondering if my grandkids saw anything or took a shot or hit a deer.

I put all 5 of my unused tags this fall in my tag collection box and didn't even blink about it.

I kill 8-9 deer a year with my recurve. I do cheat and use a metal riser and a treestand some. I eat a lot of deer meat. I love it. Where I hunt you don't get much meat off of a deer so it takes a few.

JR we have a shoot coming up on the 21-23of this month will try to send pictures. See you at Denton Hill

I hunt the hard way AND fill my freezer. One of my favorite places is a state park that is so near town its full of hunters. If you go more than an hour without seeing hikers or another hunter walking around you start to wonder if for some reason the park closed. I learned to ignore people. The deer are so used to seeing them they hide till the people pass then go about their business. I killed a buck one year as he watched a couple go out of sight. I've got 3 300-600 acre farms plus a 150 and an 80 I hunt also but I hunt public land alot. Best hunt the way you want as long as it's legal and let others do the same. For me it's not just about killing, it's about the way I hunt also. Some people are just about the kill and the meat. That's fine too but don't make me sound like the bad guy because I like to hunt.

"I just get tired of folks looking down their noses at hunters who choose higher % methods when they are just fine with someone else growing and killing their meat for them."

I'm not even sure that the one thing necessarily has anything at all to do with the other, but it sure as hell sounds like you're looking for ways to look down your nose at them.

Maybe we all just oughtta look each other in the eye, nod amicably, and get back to what we were doing.....

With Blue tongue, CWD, drought and other maladies affecting the herds here in Kansas, and many other states the deer are simply not as plentiful as they used to be. Add to that the growth of hunting, the shrinking private lands leased up thanks to deep pocketed hunting shows and hunting clubs, and you have a recipe for tag soup. As everyone on here obviously lives in a different state, simply because you can fill 8 tags doesn't make you a better hunter, it makes you a fortunate one that the deer herds can support that kind of harvest.

I don't have to hunt, I don't have to kill to enjoy hunting either. I also don't care what others do as long as its legal..its none of my business. There are many people out there that have no regard for bag limits or follow the law. Those people are the armpit of the hunting society, and yes I will look down my nose at those people.

Ok buddy. I can't wait. I look forward to that every year.,

I mostly hunt busy Iowa public land. Sometimes I sit sometimes I sit here and move there. My wife always sits. Wood arrows, longbows, no blinds. Sometimes we get landowner control doe tags from farmers and shoot more than two deer a year. It is a false assumption that wood arrow shooters and ground hunters cannot fill their tags.

Dean, nobody - not even me - said wood arrow shoots can't fill their tags. I could easily post pics of quite a few deer I took using wood arrows. That's not my point at all.

"but it sure as hell sounds like you're looking for ways to look down your nose at them..."

Calling out people who look down their noses at those who choose to use more effective means to provide meat for their family, when the situation calls for it, is not looking down you nose at them. It's calling a spade a spade. IOW, live and let live. My point is that if someone decides they want to give themselves more advantages because they value venison over style, why should anyone criticize them? We're all hunters here and we all make choices based on our end goal.

I'm not criticizing those who would rather eat tag soup than use a feeder or compound or even a crossbow. I'm just saying those folks need to get off their high horse and realize they need to take a step back and go a little easier on their fellow hunter. That's all.

Some of you get what I'm saying. You've seen the comments here hating on folks who use tree stands, feeders, carbon arrows, expandable broadheads or whatever. And you've also seen the comments like "I'd rather eat tag soup than use a ..."

Plenty coups, your post illustrates my point pretty well.

All the 'advantages' are still dependent on the deer! If the deer doesn't walk past your stand, it doesn't matter if you're toting a self-bow or the latest magnum rifle.

I hear a lot of guys bragging about how they fill their freezers, but a lot of them won't discuss the awesome deer populations in their neck of the woods. I've gone seasons around here without seeing a deer, much less a legal 'shooter'.

There's a boatload of difference between hunting where there are a lot of deer and few hunters to places where it's the opposite. If you're blessed, good for you!

I don't think it does, and I don't think that's exactly what Plenty Coups is shining a light on. Like him, I have no time for those self-proclaimed great white hunters who use every aid imaginable and then disconnect the ends from the means while they're bragging in your face. That 'conversation' won't last long with me. If you're going to call spades, call em all. But I digress...

As far as regular folks choosing legal weapons or methods to make it easier to put meat in the freezer, I have no problem with that and it's none of my business.

You said, "I'm not criticizing those who would rather eat tag soup than use a feeder or compound or even a crossbow. I'm just saying those folks need to get off their high horse..."

Really? That's not criticizing? How about terribly presumptuous? Or biased?

Well said DanaC

In Illinois, I was giving venison away. No feeders, and often using longbows and wood arrows. No two places to hunt are exactly the same. So folks who can fill their tags with traditional or even primitive gear should just feel grateful and not criticize others who don't always have that same opportunity.

Well I'd say there are a whole bunch of us traditional archers that would revert to any means available if hunting to us was a necessity rather than recreation.

You hunt up here on the border and get a deer, be grateful. Thick woods, a 1 deer per square mile deer density, and you will gratefully accept a roadkill from the warden. Got a nice doe with minimal damage a month ago. Canadians drive like crazy and keep everyone in our village stocked with moose meat and venison. The people who hunt up here do it for the enjoyment because even if they bait, it is legal for only 3-4 weeks in this Northern zone of NH. Full season baiting ended two years ago and resulted in a one week reduction in our gun and bow seasons up here, along with loss of either/or during muzzleloading season. Also, NH has had a strong "open land" philosophy and the heavy baiting was resulting in posting. It never hit here but you see it below us. Most of us locals up here are ground pounders. Many feed deer in the winter but wouldn't be caught dead shooting a deer near a feeding area. We like to drive in miles on logging roads and hunt alone. Our idea of a good hunt is not hearing a single machine all day or seeing another human. The deer gives us an excuse to be out there.

Stick in TN nailed it. Now, I don't hunt over bait but if I want meat I can just sit on the front porch by the coffee pot and take one. I like the experience of getting out with my bow or my old octagon barrel 30-30, or my octagon barrel 22. and hunting. Baiting with corn or other grain is putting the same chemicals in the deer as feed lot beef gets and I don't like it. Shoot, you can't get much better bait than a white oak.

When I started hunting Ohio had about 60k deer. Got my first deer with only An Indian Warrior, the wooden arrows with super HIlbre broadheads that came with it, a kwikee quiver with no hood, a cheap tab and arm guard. I owned nothing else archery related. I admit it was pure luck but by the next season after a year of practically living in the woods my deer wasn't luck any longer. It was 1980 before Ohio broke 100k deer but I filled my tags up until then and after. Now we have 700k deer and guys complain about there being no deer because they don't see em. With hunting pressure now a days not seeing deer doesn't mean there are none, it usualy means pressure made em harder to find and you cannot just find a trail and put up a stand. So no, hunting deer the way we want without the baits n such has nothing to do with having plenty of deer. Its just what we enjoy.

Deer hunting has become boring to me anyway. I've killed a pile of them and can't stand sitting in a tree anymore. The "hunting" part just turned into just shooting. I can live without deer.

But sneaking up on a big bear and slipping an arrow into it at 10 yards is 100 times more exciting than killin anything from a tree and I love it. Plus bear meat is way better than deer. If we could raise bears like we do cattle no one would eat a cow again.

Sneaking up on hogs is about 75 times more fun than deer killin. A snack size hog is easy to carry out and cooks up nice.

Here's another thing that all should be careful about where if we are buying store bought that its not loaded with all the preservatives that can and does eventually make us sicker by adding more junk in our systems. Know where it comes from and should being buying grass feed. But is it really? Who knows?

The whole Idea of eating what we shoot is to eat clean also don't you think?

Everything is twisted anymore sounds grim but was just looking in my garden at the work I have to do with weeds and wondering where they came from never saw these types of weeds in my bush. I think the wind blew them in and where in the air from big storms we had? Just and idea or aliens maybe but never the less more work.

Back to romper run though. Why even mention tag soup you know why you didn't collect so correct it and work at it differently for this season or go do what Frisky does pick one off road all blood hemoraged and adrenalin-ed up.LOL

I bow hunt turkeys until the last day of any weapon season,then take out a shotgun. 10 hour round trip and out of state license and tag, vindicated.

Stick in Tn has a great example. Hunt as you will-legally,

Actually, I prefer roadkill.

I prefer beef, but do eat the game I kill with my longbow and Hawken. I never compromise my hunting efforts to put game on the table. I enjoy seeing them alive too, and leaving them for the next hunter.

Although I eat what I kill, I do not hunt for food as it is not generally not cost effective, especially for big game animals other than local deer.

Killinstuff I gotta agree with you on the spot n stalk bears. Idaho and MOntana are my favorites for that. I would rather eat rabbits and fox squirrels than any big game. And they're more fun to hunt. Now a days most of my deer go to someone who's unemployed and needs the meat.

From a Boone and Crockett publication.

That settles it, I need to cut back on my possum intake.

Lol Kodiak. I've trimmed down since I stopped eating it too. I must admit it's hard to pass up a fresh road kill though here in WV.

I guess filling a tag doesn't mean to much to me. Had a great year last year and never got a shot. I guess some of you would say I'm not a good Hunter or I need to change. I don't think I'm going to change because I have tags left over or didn't. Kill something.

I've filled way more freezer space with guns and wheel bow than with recurve or longbow. We've gotten to the point that store bought meat actually make us sick. Hormones, antibiotics etc. For me having a freezer full of game is way more important than how it was taken.

Got possums frying right now...

Possum meat is deadly. :)

"Why even mention tag soup you know why you didn't collect so correct it and work at it differently for this season..."

Because not every season is identical and you can't control everything on public land. That's why.

Two years ago, I had three deer in the freezer by the end of October. With a recurve, on crowded public land where you can't leave a stand overnight, or use bait. Last year, I got walked in on for the first time ever because some knucklehead happened to find my route in and followed me. A bunch of the younger hunters look for my truck and try to figure out where I hunt because they know I take deer every year there with my recurve. Well one finally figured out my area and how to get into it. For years I was the only one who knew how to get into that area and pretty well had it to myself. I'd see deer in the daytime there because nobody else had discovered the place.

So no, you don't always have the same variables each year. I've never had two years exactly alike where I hunt. Like I said, it's heavily hunted and the deer are incredibly smart. Plus the area is in a major flood plain and some years only 1/3 of the area is above water, which crowds all the hunters into a pretty small space and drives many deer out onto private land.

Opossum is the best game animal for RymanCat. It's something he can actually stalk and kill.

Joe

Anyone that follows another hunter in on public land deserves at least that, PC.

Guys like you make me wonder why I ever came back to the LW, actually. Keep on h8n bro.

We ahd had a mean assed possum on our country place. It snarled at my two year old daughter, so I put a Deadhead through it. I claimed that I eat what I kill. So I watched a rerun of 'the beverly hillbillies' to see if granny had any tips for me. Then I went out to skin it, I will admit that I arfed a chunk or two in the process, but 'I got her done'. I decided to to do a granny thing and put the whole damn thing and I do mean damn thing into the oven. When it started to cook, I opened the oven door to see how it was going, I gagged so hard that i could see my tonsils come out. For unknown some reason the crows thought it was fantastic, so I left the to it. They were safe, because if I couldn't eat a possum, I for sure could not eat a crow. Now all high caflutin' bowhunters should load up a backquiver with a bunch of cedar blunts and go after after a grove full of cottontails, then they will know what real bowhunting is all about.

People hunt for different reasons. You, john, obviously feel super comfortable about your reasons, enough to throw around beef and tag soup lines. Not exactly the be the change you want to see standard.

It would never occur to me to criticize what you have decided to do. I don't really get why it even comes up. So long as you don't feel entitled to claim a hunting standard you don't live up to, the style you choose is just what you want to do. I mean you are not known as one of the prominent leaders in the hunting field, so why would anyone care what you do? If Noel Feather breaks the law, or takes an easy way out, while making videos that make it seem like he is at the top of the game, then he is going to get called out on it. Same with that guy who filled his bow tag using a shotgun while building a reputation as a primitive hunter. But how average joe hunters does it, who cares?

In your case, John, you have that whole Olympics thing, which means you get top points for picking up a challenge. Just isn't trophy hunting, or purist archery, that you don't care about. And with a recurve, you probably outshoot most guys with a compound, maybe even quite a few guys with a rifle. So that is what it is also.

Where I am, it is basically a one deer season, so you aren't going to be eating venison all year round no matter what you do. Kinda takes the pressure off...

Hey folks!!! I hit a deer with my motorcycle once, does that make Frisky and I brothers.....RonG

Rong, better than hitting a moose which I did on a bicycle cruising downhill on a woods road after hunting. It was dark and my headlamp didn't shine far, plus I was booking it. All the moose did was grunt while I screamed.

I agree with jungle hunter. I can't eat beef, if I get some stuck between my teeth, my gum will swell up. not so with wild meat.

I was driving through the Ocala National Forest when this young deer shot across the road luckily I hit my brakes and slowed down considerably, the deer hit my windshield landed in my arms and proceeded to destroy my paint job and me, a State trooper just happened around the corner and saw what happened and jumped out of his vehicle and pulled the struggling deer off my bike. Of course the little fella ran off and I was stuck with bloody legs, arms and a 900.00 repainting bill. I think I would have rather hit the moose on a bicycle......Ha!Ha!

I see nothing wrong with dreams without them you have no desire wether you fulfill that desire or not it's what drives us to improve and become who you are. If it just happens to be doing it the hard way I say mor power to you. If you want to go to the butcher shop that's all good to.

I bumbed a mama moose standing her ground with a 20 foot Wenonah canoe on a portage trail in Quetico. No harm came to mama moose, the canoe, after my blood pressure settled down I was okay as well. Maybe, that shouldn't count as trad event, after all it was a kevlar canoe.

"I start every season out hunting the "hard way" and as the days go by I slowly increase my odds to the point that I know I'm going to put venison in the freezer for my family. Last year, that included a muzzleloader and a feeder at the very end of the season. But you know what? We're eating venison in my home all year, and I know where that meat came from." This sounds to me like someone that does not have faith in their abilities and is not willing to stick to their methods or initial philosophies. I know a man that raises organic legume prairie grass only fed beef, a rare breed that is actually tastier and healthier than deer, Iowa deer are not organics, they eat sprayed vegetation and eat GMO corn and beans. So why do we stick to our 'hardway' guns? Some of us respect the challenge and reducing that challenge by going the easy way, is reducing our personal integrity.

Bowlim, my "beef and tag soup lines" were only in response to some of the sharp criticism I've read here by the "holier than thou's" who say they would rather eat tag soup than hunt over bait or whatever. IOW, they are super comfortable shopping for their meat in the grocery aisle while they look down on guys who choose to increase their odds through whatever means, in order to put venison in the freezer.

If someone truly believes "live and let live" then they shouldn't have been offended because they wouldn't be criticizing the way anyone else chooses to hunt.

Dean, you're writing the narrative you want to hear. It has nothing to do with faith in my abilities. There ain't too many folks who would keep up with me in the deer woods. I flat out work my a** off every October and my bathroom scale keeps track of that work. It's not uncommon for me to lose 8- 10 lbs. every fall, because of the work I put in hunting heavily pressured public lands. But some days even the hardest work doesn't pay off because of things out of my control. So then I have a choice. Increase my odds by using a different means to gather my venison, or go to the grocery store and buy beef.

In Texas, we can take up to 5 (and sometimes more with landowner tags) deer a year. I only need 3-4 to get my family through the year without having to buy beef - unless the wife and I just decide we want to grill a steak, which we do a few times each year. So some years it's a conscious decision whether to forego the "pure trad, public land" route and just get it done on baited private land, or to spend the $ to buy meat from the grocery store and wonder where it came from. Those are my choices. Yours may be different.

What I don't get is folks who would rather eat tag soup than venison, given the choice. Not everyone has the choice though, so if a person doesn't have that option (to increase their odds) then yea, you may as well stick with the gear and the methods that make you the happiest.

When I hunted the fertile fields and frankly dumb midwest whitetails of Illinois, there was no reason to compromise my gear or methods. There, I could count on more deer in the freezer than we could eat in a year. But not every place is like that.

Gee Joe you let another one of your secrets out they lay over and play dead don't they for you so you can just club them.

Sorry but I don't date back woods witch's like you with that Cat lady so I'm not at risk of getting nipped up and being feed God only knows what from the dark side. LOL

Does I run Joe they want caviar and lobsta stuffed with crab. I'm eating tog now and dog eating snow goose.LOL

I know a couple years ago some Australia meat came into Phila. port and they were trying to track it all down it made a lot of people sick.

Plus if your shooting your own the Gov. can't screw with it. LOL

Most prob. won't believe that either.

I guess whats it matter how you shoot an animal you don't get him with your bow then the gun sounds off.LOL

And Bowlim, I have no idea why you bring up the Olympics thing. That has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.

if you truly believe in live and let live then why are you upset by those purist who say they would rather do without than compromise what they do. Why should it bother you personally to the place you will start a thread like this and basically insult this sight and the people on it. If it bothers you that much then indeed one must wonder why you did come back to the Leatherwall. If you want to hunt over bait, use a crossbow or a rifle I don't think you would be criticized by any other hunter. And you should not be. It is the what I see as disdain for people who do not agree with you that causes a problem.Personally I will hunt no other way than a recurve or longbow, killing for food is not something I am concerned with at this stage of life, I will always hunt even if I never take a shot at game again. How you choose to do it is entirely up to you just as how others do it is their business. I know you are a very good archer and I respect that you hunt hard,just realize not everyone is the same and ignore the rest.As I am now going to do.

One of our public land tricks is to go in further than anyone else wants to go. Pretty hard for a couple of old cripples like me and my wife. We are not trying to fill a freezer We just try to fill our available tags. If you want to use a different method that has nothing to do with trad archery, it makes no difference to me. I simply refuse to use anything but trad archery methods to hunt anything whether it is flying or walking.

And I respect that choice so long as you don't criticize those who do.

In my younger days, I did exactly the same - go in further than anyone else was willing to go. But with my back problems last year and now a back surgery, those days are probably behind me. So I have to hunt smarter and take what opportunities I can get.

I personally value venison on the table over what style/method I use, so that's just a choice I make. Like I have said, given the opportunity I'd take all my deer with traditional gear. But if my best efforts don't produce for whatever reason, I'm not too proud to pull out the stops either.

I do things my way,for my own personal reasons.If people dont like it,then they can pound sand,for all i care.I dont make excuses or give explanations,to those that disagree,but i may give an explanation,to those who have a genuine curiosity about what i do.

Why is GMO corn more toxic than a hybrid by natural mutation and genetic selection?

Riverwolf, I'm not trying to change how anyone feels. Just pointing out how hypocritical it is for those who look down their noses at folks who use methods they aren't willing to use to fill the freezer with wild game, while they head to the meat aisle at the grocery store.

I'm not saying everyone does this. The majority of folks couldn't give a crap and neither could I. But the "baiting" thread got me thinking - what difference does it make to anyone how anyone else chooses to hunt? Especially if they are using those means to feed their family wild game? For example, to me someone hunting in ANY condition - even behind a high fence - and taking that meat home is really no different than someone going to the grocery store and picking out a ribeye. And yet here we have folks who eat farm raised beef criticizing folks who hunt over feeders. It's laughable.

Because to some,Bow hunting has become a religion.

genetically modified organsims have genes mixed in that can reproduce a number of unwanted side effects. It can kill rodents, make them sterile, cause cancer, and effect their immune systems. The Monsanto Protection act has made it illegal to study it in the USA, that has not stopped other countries from studying it and banning it. http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/04/08/10-scientific-studies-proving-gmos-can-be-harmful-to-human-health/

I don't like the "Hard Way" phrase. It implies judgement of those who don't choose my way. In fact, I go out of my way not to use the word "traditional" to describe my bow. The word has become to polarized.

I'm not "traditional" to some because I like camo, daypacks, fiberglass backed limbs, and photographs instead of cave drawings.

I refer to "recurve" (I don't do LBs).

Matters not to me what others do as long as they follow the law.

To no one in particular: I believe there are too many thin-skinned people. They hear someone say "I would do...'x'....before I would do 'x'....and think it implies judgment. I don't operate or think that way. I don't hunt with a triggered bow but that doesn't mean my personal value is used to judge or evaluate the worthiness of how someone else does it. I won't kill a deer with a centerfire rifle. Does that mean I look down my nose at someone who does? Pardon me...I have friends I LOVE who do things quite differently from me.

Here are a few of my truths:

I would do without a deer before I would place bait or a feeder and try to kill over it. I would shred my tag and buy beef or pork for a year vs sitting next to or above a feeder. I would stalk the woods with a camera before using certain weapons I dislike. I would eat a Butterball turkey before I would sit in a fully-enclosed cloth blind to kill a wild bird. I think deer is delicious but grass-fed Angus trumps whitetail almost every single time. I live on a farm where beef is king.

If you think I spend time looking down my nose or judging you simply because of how I like to do things for myself...and it's far different from you...I would say you probably need to pay less attention to me and stop jumping to conclusions. The fact that I do it my way is my choice. It doesn't in any way imply that you are wrong or should adopt my ways. It also means you are likely incorrect to judge me or imply that I think, believe, or say you are wrong for doing it YOUR way.

Kevin, I wish I could do it your way and have a similar experience like you did on your moose hunt you posted the story of. You post is one reason I keep reading threads on here. Because I am getting tired of the same old arguments on who said this, who does that. I'd rather read stories about some hunt I was not able to do yet, or have not yet taken but someday will, to get pointers and to just fire me up on the prospect of doing it. I could care less who eats what or what they use to kill it. just bring on more hunting stories with some great photos and quit all the bitches and opinions. Crikey, we are all hunters or shooters, and all eaters here and we need to stick together, 'trad' or no 'trad'. The arguments I read on here are getting just plain stupid.

dean, I was once floating down the Madison River in an inner tube, out of Bear trap Canyon. I had my 4 mo old yellow lab Kayak with me, swimming some, in and out of the tube, etc. I came around a bend in a very wide shallow spot in the river and there on the opposite bank stood a big cow moose. I kinda freaked when I looked to my left, and there on the bank about 20 feet away lay a week old calf moose. I lay flat and floated by, the dog was out on the bank at this point, and I looked at the cow, and her ears were up, looking in my direction. I figured I was about to be burger in the time it took for her to trot over and hoof my sorry ass to a pulp. But she just stood perked up over there while sweat poured forth from by brow like Victoria Falls, and the dog somehow missed the calf. I am for certain God helped me dodge a bullet that day.

As usual, Kevin Dill expressed my thoughts better than I could have. Thank you sir.

Well said Bowwild and Kevin. Good posts.

Honestly, to me some of this comes down to finances too. My license and public hunting land permit costs me about $100/year. In a good year that will allow me to put about 100-120 lbs. of venison in my freezers - which is plenty to get us through until next October.

If like this year the conditions aren't in my favor, then that means we're buying 100-120 lbs. of beef instead, costing me another $300-500 for meat I know nothing about and that is not as healthy for us as venison.

Or, I can accept an offer from a friend to allow me to cull some does off their place, and let my .50 cal fill my freezer.

Like Kevin said - its all about choices. Live and let live.

yum, deer :)

Good there 365 days in a year and we don't have to eat the same every day. Even fresh lobster every day for 3-4 days are boring.

I was told by a quail hunter that it is impossible to eat quail everyday for a month. He tried it and got to day 11, the other guy said that he got to day 6 and gagged on it.

Not sure who said anything about eating venison every day...

If you figure the 3 of us still in the house (I needed a lot more when my son was still at home!), that's about 40 lbs. ea./year. Which really means about 1/4 lb. of venison every few days.

I'm about to eat a venison burger in about 5 minutes. And it will be the fourth one in 5 days. I had a beef steak yesterday. totally another ballgame, and way less desirable - greasy and fatty. Yuk.. I could, and have, lived on venison, antelope, or elk and toast with butter every day for well over 11 days. Of course, not just exclusively meat, gotta have some veg. and starch too. but in college days, I lived on strictly meat and rice or taters for many many days at a time. Never got sick of it. I can live on it now. But I don't have to yet...

We have had years that we our only red meat was venison. It is possible to eat venison everyday. The store bought stuff tastes off when when the deer meat runs out. I have never shot enough quail or pheasant to see how many days in a row I could go. The longest that I ever ate cottontail everyday was 7 days, all bow killed. My wife wouldn't try for the eighth day. She also limited me to 4 squirrels a years, they need to be cooked slow, she hates cooking them. I am pretty certain that I could eat bluegill everyday all year long.

Try squirrels in a pressure cooker for 20 minutes... melt in your mouth.

Raised my kids on deer meat for several years. They wouldn't touch beef for a long time after that. Too much fat. They still love deer meat.

"The store bought stuff tastes off when when the deer meat runs out..."

"Raised my kids on deer meat for several years. They wouldn't touch beef for a long time after that. Too much fat. They still love deer meat."

Ditto.

A few years ago, we moved back to TX after being in Illinois for 6 years. My youngest was 8. She really hadn't ever eaten beef because the deer in Illinois were (IMO) so easy to kill, and large I never had trouble filling the freezer. Well, my first year back I hadn't lived in TX long enough to claim resident status and I didn't see the point in spending $300 for a non-resident license since I didn't have a place to hunt anyway. So we spent that money instead on ground beef. The first time we had a meal after the move, daughter takes a few bites and asks me and her mom "what's wrong with this meat?"

It took us a few seconds to put it together, but she was so used to eating venison that ground beef tasted "weird" to her. LOL

I love the fact that I have been blessed enough to raise my kids mostly on venison. I know many here who can say the same.

It's probably those hormones they inject beef with....Ha!Ha!

It's basically what they eat that changes the flavor.

Kevin Dill said the same thing I did, but it didn't sound the same...Ha!Ha!

Jeff, I have for many years used a dutch oven for squirrel and rabbit stew and put dumplings on top the last 20 minutes of cooking. It's very similar to using a pressure cooker just takes longer.

Gee how did this thread get off on cooking, that's better than what it was, when it comes to eating not too many objections you will find.

Grass fed beef is every bit as healthy as wild venison, especially if you're buying local beef and know the farmer. Deer can pick up pathogens from sprayed fields, woods, etc., so there's no guarantee you are getting "better" meat.

"Grass fed beef is every bit as healthy as wild venison..."

I'm sure it is. Which is why I didn't say "grass fed beef" in the title. ;)

bluesman - I agree 100% esp. on the "long range" hunting that is becoming the current fad. Not ethical IMO but I suppose it's legal.

Deer have less fat and cholesterol than beef no matter the feed.

Got to agree with the LONG range thing,how is sitting 600 yds from something hunting ? Good shooting yes, hunting, no.I was born and raised a Floridian and it was not a good idea to be around the Ocala national forrest during gun season. Lots of long clear cuts for the idiots to shoot at anything they saw move. Several people got killed every year. Just because something is legal does not mean it is ok sometimes.

I use flies for trout, some use worms ........

Flies are cheating. I use my bare hands.

I prefer a long four wheel drive far into the woods followed by a long hike with my longbow, hunting the hard way.

Last year I got one deer from a friends 300 acre farm with buckshot via my shotgun, after a brief walk.

Each year is always different but I've ben fortunate to get a deer or two every year for a while now.

I know how I prefer to hunt for deer but I'm glad I have options.

I do what I enjoy until I don't enjoy doing it anymore at least for hunting that is. I took a eastern turkey with my bow in a blind last year and enjoyed it. I also love running and gunning for turkey. All I have is heavily pressured public land to hunt so to me when I succeed or get close it is very enjoyable to me. I hog hunt in Florida with an outfitter and I've used dogs, stands over feeders and spot and stalk all depending on what I feel like to do. Most years I'll do spot and stalk and stand hunt. I love the stand too since you can see how the different animals interact.

I think most people have it right on this thread.

Ha, if ya gotta hunt over bait than so be it , I or my kids never will as long as I'm alive, have at it ......

For limbwalker ....

I don't hunt with a rifle either. Just my choice now. I do enjoy deer meat but like beef better. I like hunting a shooting deer with my recurve. I am lucky to be in a state with lots of deer.

I guess its why I use glass backed laminate bows, carbon arrows and treestands, to make sure I kill at least one deer. There was a year I was determined to kill with my selfbow, wood arrows, I ate tag soup that year, and did not like the taste !Now I drop the first deer I come across, and then try and challenge myself. I may be able to quit that as now I have a 10 year old grandson making meat with the rifle. LOL. Im not greedy, and 2 or 3 deer is plenty for my needs. I may resort to the self bow again, as I have never made that happen. My little guy is my insurance, and Its way more rewarding to watch him make meat than me.

Thanks Adam. LOL Glad to know you control your children so well. ;)

r.grider - same for me when my son and daughter were hunting with me. I could always count on them to get "their own" deer for the freezer! They don't have the same stupid self-imposed limitations as their dad. ha, ha.

John, my last comment was aimed at a different direction than you. 8^). Some folks tend to boast about how healthy deer meat is, not thinking what they have to eat too.

In August farmers here use crop dusters to spray beans with something so toxic that for the next few days, the farmer cannot go into those fields or risk serious health problems or even death. Song birds just seem to disappear. Dogs have been killed by it. Yet every year, they do it all over again. The deer that live in the creek bottoms and terrace cover are directly exposed to it. My farmer friend refuses to use anything that is that dangerous and all of the other farmers think he is wrong for not following the crowd.

When i was young,i took up the bow,because it was the "Old Indian way"and that was important to me.Later,i used the bow,because it was quiet.I have used rifles and shotguns and will continue to,when necessary,but i prefer the bow if possible.I just dont like a lot of loud noise.

I am stuck having o eat store bought beef tonight. I was asked if I preferred a strip steak or a filet.... A no Brainer...But even with a filet, I'd prefer a choice piece of venison steak properly processed and seasoned, or especially an elk steak (pref. cow). I don't care how much pesticide is applied where every August, it is throughout our ecosystem in unknown quantities and its in store bought beef, maybe a bit less so in Organic beef, but how many of us buy that??? No, IMO, venison is far better for you, just look at the charts for comparison. Way more cholesterol in beef than in lean game meat. Some farmers feed their beef the products pesticides are sprayed on, think about that....esp. corporate farms where there is very little conscientiousness.

I guess we could say that venison is partially organic. They are not fed hormones and given all of those shot that hogs and chickens get. My organic beef comes from an area that is separated from the chemical farms thanks to the Loess Hills. I live in town and I have a dog and a bad back, the ground is long ways down there for me, so there is dog poop on my yard. When they start spraying those fields with crop dusters, there is not a fly on any of the dog poop and the mosquitoes disappear. So yes, we are getting hit with poison everywhere.

Sounds like a lot of poop on this thread.

As "traditional" as we think we are? truth is we are not. The whole term is rather subjective and relative to whatever happens to be modern at the time.

We are nowhere near as "traditional" as say the American Indians. Those boys couldn't wait to get their hands on a good blackpowder rifle, had they access to compound bows? they'd a been on them like a possum on a roadkill.

Most self imposed modern limitations are based on "fun" and not on necessity.

But.......eating tag soup really isn't all that fun, if that was all you had to eat.

Discussions like this wouldn't exist if sport hunting was not much of an option.

Personally I can fully understand Limbwalkers view. He eat's venison, it's an important part of his diet..I'm sure you hunt for fun, but you want venison as well. Hey I can relate to that.

I can also relate to Kevin and some others that choose their weapon and style of hunting based on their personal preference. Even if it means an unfilled tag.

What really has me scratching my head is why either becomes an issue?

But then again....it is a rather "modern" debate.

Oh and by the way ...I prefer both venison and beef steak......medium rare.

Shade mt. well said.

It only becomes an issue when folks look down their noses at those who choose to hunt over bait or use a compound or crossbow or rifle to put meat in the freezer.

Most folks don't care - which is where I stand. I'm glad we have choices and I use all my options to ensure a full freezer of venison every year. That said, I'm happiest when that only includes a recurve bow.

I do not hunt deer with a gun, compound, X-gun, use bait, or tree stands. I hunt with longbows and recurves from the ground and don't give a crap what anyone thinks about it!

I do not eat much deer meat but when I do it tastes pretty good. It doesn't have that "guilt" aftertaste.

I see it or hear about it every year when I go to Alaska. A guy and his buddy go in on a diy hunt to bowhunt moose. They've got a rifle along also. About day 3 or 4...blam, blam...dead bull. Maybe a second bull before the hunt ends. If I see these guys before the hunt they are typically 100% talking bows and arrows. Their gear is good and they have killed plenty of game with a bow. They take the easier road when a kill becomes extremely important.

Do I judge them? I try not to, and I certainly don't think they are wrong for doing that. Sometimes I might have a thought along the lines of it not being my way. More than once I've heard the after-stories in which a guy says "I could have got it done with a bow so easily. Next time I'm leaving the gun and just bringing my bow!" And guess what....I've seen them a year or two later and the gun is with them. Which is again, no problem for me at all.

I'm pretty sure I'm viewed as a weirdo by a few people. I go into wilderness for 2 weeks up there and I take one longbow with a dozen arrows. No backup bow. No rifle. I have a 4" barrel .44 mag for bear-scares. If I can't kill a moose at tight quarters, I'm not killing a moose at all. If my bow dies, there I am. I suppose I might employ the .44 but the distance would be the same as my longbow. To me the skill isn't in the shooting anyway. It's in the getting close...really close. I crave proximity to big animals and I'm not the slightest bit inclined to personally cheat or compromise my values. MY values. I can't eat an unused metal locking tag. Some of my unused tags have the best memories tied to them...memories I wouldn't trade for muscle and antler taken another way.

And maybe most of this is explainable by the fact that a kill just isn't the pinnacle of hunting for me anymore. I don't require it. I appreciate it. I can pass on it. Not everyone can understand this. I don't need them to understand. I don't have a need to understand them either. I don't worry about what they say or think. My hunting happens on my terms. So does a decision to kill.

Kevin says it best, I'm along those same lines of thinking. Only difference for me is, if I make a two week journey into the Alaskan wilderness for moose hunting, it may be the one and only time I do it now in my situation (if it was just me, I'd probably live there though), so I am going to take home a legal moose if it presents itself, with a bullet if near the end and I have given it my best attempts with the bow. I do prefer meat that is not from Price Chopper. Case in point, those beef steaks we had last night would be considered about the best you can eat to most everyone. They were tender filets my wife carefully selected, and I cooked them on the grill rare to med rare. But they just had more fatty marbling and less flavor than a lean seasoned venison steak or elk steak. Were they good? Yeah. But were they outstanding and to 'die for'? Nah. I have had maybe three beef steaks in my life that were as good as the best game meat I ever ate. But none better.

My 4 x 400M relay team won last Saturday because the team that finished ahead of them by a nose faulted in a handoff. The officials and other coaches congratulated me and I told them it wasn't the victory I wanted. I want to win by being faster than you. The same with hunting. How I kill a deer is more important than if I kill. I hunt with a longbow or flinter on the ground because I like it and like to step back in time. Getting old also has affected me as to how I kill. I like to be close and know I outfoxed the animal on his own turf using stealth, the wind, or knowing which way to cut him off. It's a competition for me. My brains against his incredible senses and instinct. He wins...a lot.

Lawdy, Admirable!

Some of you guys are completely missing the point. But hey, it's all good.

Red Beast provides yet another easy example though...

I agree - as easily evidenced by the "guilt free" comment above, but there really is a third view and that's just pure determination - IOW, I'm not going to rest until I get one with the gear I've chosen. And I'm fine with that because I've done it myself many times. But eventually I realized in those years when it was late Dec. and my freezer was still not full, it was just plain stupid of me to keep that attitude when it meant I was - at some point in the future - be forced to go buy meat.

In states where you can only take one or two deer, then sure. You're going to go buy meat anyway. But in states like IL and TX, there really is no reason to unless you just don't really like venison that much, which is also a good reason.

Look, traditional bowhunting already has enough of an elitist stigma attached to it that we surely don't need folks looking down their noses at other hunters, using terms like "guilt free." That's just ridiculous. And it continues the stereotype that many other hunters have about those of us who choose simple bows to hunt.

This past year I bowhunted all the way through the regular firearms season. Once that option was exhausted, I took advantage of the late muzzleloader season and a friend's property that was loaded with deer. He happened to have feeders on his place but there were so many deer it wouldn't have mattered if he did or not. My freezer is full and we ate some pretty "guilt free" backstrap just last night. ;)

I'll tell you one thing if I had to rely on eating wild and the expense of it all i'd be in trouble financially. The expense of licences and club dues is insane and then add equipment its not like the old days when you go out back and get an animal so there's a lot to be said about store bought meat as long as its safe to eat.

I can buy a lot of meat for 5,000.00 a year to hunt. I have 8 turkey tags for NJ alone and 2 for Pa. that's 10 turkey tags that's 300.00 alone so how many butter balls that taste better can I buy and consider more on sale too.

Arrows and broad heads and gas to get back and forth ok it all adds up don't it.

Ok no one said we have to go hog wild oh he's 500.00 to go shoot too ya know. Ok 350.00 for a small one but you get the point of expense.

Now back to tag soup. Well whose fault is it the animals he moved and I missed or he didn't come out so I didn't see any?

Any good hunter should be setting up for the shot and then be able to make the shot and then punch the tag. That's about it in a nut shell so all the drama that's added is just more BS and total nonsence.

Limbwalker, again, I think you misrepresented someone's post to mean something other than what was meant.(Red's) In no way did he infer the 'guilt' was anyone's but his own.

I think we should be able to discuss such things without folks looking first to transpose our personal values or feelings onto themselves or others. It always seems desperate and a bit pathetic to me when folks look first to be offended or victimized. But perhaps I'm just insensitive.

I don't hunt for food. I hunt for fun, in hopes that I can HARVEST a wild animal. Those who say they hunt to feed their families are misrepresenting themselves. I DO eat wild game IF I can get it, but most of my meat is farm raised from local farmers and processed by Amish or Mennonite butchers. Only because Id rather support the local farmer than the supermarket. I hunt on my feet with a recurve and wooden arrows with steel broadheads. Many hunts, I have at least seen game and even had some walk up to me. Due to fully alert animals or bad shot conditions, I have not recently taken an animal, but it has been fun. Im doing it "my way".

Prior to the internet, I didn't know everything I was doing was the wrong way. Decided to only hunt naked, and kill animals with my bare hands, then eat them raw.

Harlen, were you afraid?

Jeff, you're pretty insensitive. ;) LOL

Nah, I knew what he meant. What I'm saying is why the "guilt?" WTH is that all about? The gear we use an the way we hunt is a choice we make based on some kind of romantic self-imposed goal. I have no idea why anyone would ever feel "guilty" about eating anything they harvested legally. Disappointed maybe, but guilty?

I was disappointed that my best efforts with a traditional bow in 3 months of hard hunting didn't make meat. Last year, I put three deer in the freezer with about 1/3 the effort. That's hunting. But when the opportunity presented itself to take some venison at the end of the season, I jumped at it even though I couldn't (legally) use my bow. Did I feel guilty? Not in the least. I spent $100 on licenses and permits and my choices were to use them or spend even more for lesser quality meat.

"Those who say they hunt to feed their families are misrepresenting themselves..."

I don't HAVE to hunt to feed my family, but I hunt so that I can feed my family meat that is healthy and from a place I know.

I used to hunt with whatever I could. If I didn't get my deer in archery you can bet I'd be toting a gun come firearm season. And if I was still holding my deer tag I'd be back to a bow during the late archery.

I'm not sure how to say it, without sounding boastful.( trust me its not my intention)

But I started hunting at age 12 I'm 52 now, and you would not need all your fingers on one hand to count the number of years I ate tag soup here in PA plus hunting neighboring states as well. That might be hard for some to believe but it is true...

These days I prefer bowhunting with a longbow or recurve,(always did) but i've all but lost interest in Gun hunting.

Does that make me a better hunter? Of course not, I'm still the same old guy, just a little older. my preferences and methods just changed.

I may have to watch him walk, till another day...But ample time to hunt usually assures me another chance another day to fill a tag. But I'm no different whatsoever than if I were using a gun.

I speak of myself, no other implication whatsoever.

I hunted for turkey and didnt get one,,, I missed,,,, I was so dissapointed,, my wife said she would buy me a turkey at the store, so ok that will have to do for this year,, :)

LOL Brad.

I hunt for "HUNT factor", if that means not filling a tag that's alright with me. I don't use a gill net either.

So it sounds to me like some folks consider hunting more of a sport than a source of food. A lot of different perspectives on this thread, that's for sure!

I am just like Kevin . I can go home empty handed. There are a ton of guys that give up on the trad gear. I do not know of anyone that has ever killed an animal with trad gear while hunting with a compound or rifle. If you want to hunt with those weapons who cares? But you will kill more gsme with a trad now if you hunt with one 100 percent of the time.

I've killed plenty of game with trad gear at this point. I guess the "cool" factor ain't what it used to be for me because somewhere along the way I missed hunting with my rifles and my muzzleloader.

Cool Factor and it being a Sport is what i believe,gives many a distorted view of how effective the Traditional bow is,as a survival weapon or tool.If people actually relied on it as a tool to feed themselves,it may be looked at and used with a different mind set..Until one actually relies on the bow,for that purpose and the outcome,they will not understand the Difference in Ethics from many modern hunters.. It was mentioned earlier,that Native people were quick to adapt the firearm,for hunting.I dont believe that to be true.There is ample evidence to the contrary.For fighting Men...yes, but for hunting,i believe there are several disadvantages to firearms,beyond the kill factor. Native people Did in fact often use "Advantages" while using the Bow as a hunting tool.Communal hunts,drives and taking game in situations that many today would deem un ethical and in many places,Illegal.In some ways,that is much the same as modern methods,that many see as unethical. But as ive said before,Show me a sport hunter with Ethics and ill show you a guy who isnt really that hungry.Recreational hunting,gives us that choice,when we can go to the Grocery store if we are not successful,with our perceived ethics.

Just because you eat a lot of deer meat doesn't mean your not ethical...LOL Or that you resort to any method under the sun to fill your tag.

Never could figure out why how I hunt has to effect any one else? Its like the purist fly fisherman that turns up his nose at a guy that comes along and yanks em out with a can of worms. I LOVE! to flyfish...But it don't bother me in the least to see a guy catching them with garden hackle (worms)

Same goes for bowhunting. I like to hunt with a recurve or longbow. Don't bother me in the least if a guy uses a compound or rifle.

And while I'm speaking the truth here.....This self proclaimed pedestal we put our self on sometimes because we are "trad" Like we are better hunters or something because of it.

I kinda hate to destroy that ego....But I know quite a few compound bowhunters that would make a total fool out of many in the woods.

Being a good hunter isn't always dependent on your weapon. A good hunter will be a good hunter with whatever weapon he chooses.

Being able to adapt, change and use other methods is a skill.

A guy that is a good hunter can pick up a gun...a crossbow...a compound...a recurve....a self bow. And kill with it.

He just learns to adjust.

And while I'm speaking the truth here.....The guy that has killed 4 deer in 40 yrs that thinks he's as good of a hunter as the guy that has killed 30 deer in 40 yrs.

I must be missing something here...lol

"I'm pretty sure I'm viewed as a weirdo by a few people. I go into wilderness for 2 weeks up there and I take one longbow with a dozen arrows. No backup bow..... If my bow dies, there I am. "

Damn straight, you're a weirdo! What kinda MORON heads into the bush with an arrow budget of less than 1 lost per day???? Sheesh! I think P&Y used to head out with about 100, if they were planning to stay out all weekend...

"So it sounds to me like some folks consider hunting more of a sport than a source of food."

No, really? Where would you come up with a cockamamie theory like THAT?????

News Flash: If the overwhelming majority of the hunting public did NOT consider hunting as "more of a sport", there wouldn't be enough deer around for you to be able to even PRETEND that you could kill 3 or 4 or however many deer per year, because your tag would only be good for the One. Those "stupid" Iowa or Illinois deer you were talking about? They get smarter as their population density goes down. Ask any of the guys who were hunting back in the days when the fact that "Miss Mary-Anne Fleabocker saw a buck whitetailed deer last Thursday" was news that would make the local paper.

I can't wrap my head around baiting, but I grew up where it has never been legal and I'm quite sure never will be. And I have enough training as a wildlife biology kind o' guy that I don't like what baiting does for disease transmission. But these days I live where baiting has become legal - on private land only, in certain parts of the state - in an attempt to get the deer herd down to a semi-sustainable size. And if a guy (or gal) wants to watch over a feeder and load up his freezer(s) with as many does and spikes and forks as he is willing to process for his own use, then hell; more power to 'em. It turns into work real quick and it needs to be done.

But that's not what's happening here. People aren't filling the freezer quickly and moving on to the next task; and God knows they aren't letting somebody else come in and fill his freezer to help reduce the herd quickly. Instead, we have guys who secure exclusive access to multiple properties so they can pattern and kill as many big bucks in a year as their taxidermy budget will allow.

So you have to ask yourself..

Is that legal? Absolutely.

Do their actions affect other hunters? If their feeders are drawing in animals from adjacent, huntable property (public or private), then it's pretty hard to say that they don't.

And does it accomplish the goal that the state intended when they authorized the use of bait? Hell, no. You can even make a case that it may be directly at odds with the intended objective(s).

A lot of people throw around a word like "Ethics" with no idea what it means. A lot here say that all ethics are entirely personal. But that's a cop-out. One good test for what's Ethical and what's not is this: Are most people (if not everyone) better off when a solid majority of them adhere to a given standard? In other words, how does it feel when the shoe is on the other foot?

Because I can guarantee you that the guys who are using bait on locked-up private land would become some Seriously Unhappy Campers real quick if somebody else were to get access to that property and they suddenly found themselves on the other side of the fence. Most of 'em would be outraged just being told that they had to share it.

Personally, I don't give a rip how people fill their tags - not when it comes to weapons. The herd doesn't shrink any faster when you shoot X number of deer with a rifle instead of a self-bow. Tactics are a different story, but none of my business until they start to affect the quality of someone else's hunt.

I do know for sure, however, that it's pretty useless to say that one guy is a "better" hunter than the next based only on how many tags he has filled. I can usually tell when somebody really IS a better hunter than I am, but I'm not about to waste my time worrying whether somebody else is as good as me....It's not a competition, though I can tell you that he who has the most fun WINS.

I like hunting, and my bow is my favorite,, i think because i made it,, but if I didnt have a bow, I would hunt with whatever was available,, I like to hunt and eat game,,

"Being a good hunter isn't always dependent on your weapon. A good hunter will be a good hunter with whatever weapon he chooses..."

That's a fact. Some of the best hunters I know only use rifles. But that doesn't mean they aren't damn good hunters.

For example, one of the few hunting shows today that I can stand to watch is Steven Rinella's "Meat Eater." I love that show and IMO that dude could hunt circles around most here. But I've never seen him use a bow. Doesn't mean he couldn't though.

Depending on the stand I choose, a lot of years I'll grab either the recurve or the compound because of the shot distance I expect. The wind direction and time of day dictates what stand/blind I hunt. I don't really get to pick those things. So I adapt to the situation and take the weapon that fits the situation. The last two times I hunted my "long shot" stand, where the expected shot was 20-30 yards, I ended up killing a buck at 7 yards and a doe at 18 yards. LOL Could have easily shot either of them with my recurve. But that's beside the point. I'm a deer hunter first, and a traditional bowhunter second. I prefer to feed myself and my family venison over store-bought beef. So my choices are based on that line of thinking. Those years when the shot opportunities were close and frequent are always welcome though.

Gee whiz, this thing still going on.

I'm going out side and shoot some arrows.

Hey folks the main word here is HUNTING we mostly do it for bragging rites, I did it for the sport of it, four of us hunted together not in the same area, we split up and we shared all that was taken that day, no pictures, no antlers, no lasting proof of what we ate except in the septic tank...Ha!Ha!

Being we did it for the meat and the camaraderie we didn't use bait, tree stands, dogs or anything else, if you need the meat in any way to help you survive, then by all means use what ever you need to do to get it no one should begrudge you for that.

If you kill animals just to show off to the neighbor or local yahoos, then no comment.

"Hey folks the main word here is HUNTING we mostly do it for bragging rites..."

Not sure who you are referring to, but that's the last reason I would go hunting.

K Cummings...nice cabin I could understand why you would want to hunt there.

I hunt a lot of places that are not the best in terms of deer numbers. I like you just enjoy being there.

Why someone would find themselves in a position to get on stickbow.com and express that is beyond me. This place sure is interesting. My guess is someone needs to validate their methods of hunting outside of what is generally accepted within the culture of this traditional bowhunting forum?

Actually I think the guy who wins is the one who...

Hunts purely for his own motivations and,

Doesn't have any need of validation from others and,

Spends no time comparing himself to others.

Yup. Well said KPC

Some folks think there is some kind of handbook for how to be trad. Others just do what they darn well please and don't give a ....

Hey Guys!! if you come to my area that is why most of these guys hunt for is bragging rites using nothing but compounds, you won't find a longbow or re-curve in site. These guys sit at the side of the road, turn their dogs loose and wait for the deer to cross the road. I'm not talking about two or three people, the whole damn hunting club. This is why I get aggravated at reading this crap of everyone justifying themselves. Just go out and hunt like you are supposed to do whether you use bait, tree stands or a bazooka, I don't care, I hunt from the ground using no bait, no tree stand, no deer urine, nothing but me and my longbow and wood arrows, I don't call it trad or anything else I call it hunting with a bow and arrow period!

Shotgun deer season in NW Iowa, a total joke, except to the deer that get run to death in open country and to the farmers that have knuckheads justifying all of the illegal crap running all over their land. Then comes the muzzle loaders, which include shotgun hunters turned muzzle loader shooters that want to be able to take more accurate 400 yard shots at deer they have busted. Are there gun hunters that are doing things right? I hope so, but those are not the ones everyone sees. We have an early muzzle loader season as well, I hate it. I have yet to see one get a deer, I have been on public land at the same time, some of them are dangerous to be around. I have seen in my close proximity four in the last five years hit deer and not recover them. One took a 350 yard shot at a fork horn that was 15 feet from me. he decided that if I was not going to shoot it, he was. He did not recover the little buck. John if you want to shoot deer with a gun, do it, you do not need to justify it on the forum. You would more than likely be more ethical than some of the dufass gun toters around here.

"Actually I think the guy who wins is the one who... Hunts purely for his own motivations and,

Doesn't have any need of validation from others and,

Spends no time comparing himself to others."

Sounds like fun to me!

RonG you sound like someone I'd enjoy hunting with.

Wow, some of you are hung up on my "guilt" comment!

Many years ago I did not get a deer with my bow and ended up shooting a buck with the 30.06 in the gun season. I stood over that deer and was happy for the meat but also felt guilty for resorting to the easy route.

Soon after I sold the rifle and bought a Super Kodiak with the money.

Just hunt.

My wife shot her first recurves yesterday, about a dozen shots split fingered with no glove, first a 25#. Then she took the last four shots with a 45# pse takedown, at Cabelas. She did pretty darned good, and loved it. She wants to shoot now, not hunt, but shoot! Awesome for her, and she said it felt 'great hearing that arrow smack the target'. Point is, do what you enjoy and screw anything else outside of that.

Red, you're right - just hunt. No guilt necessary.

I appreciate all the game I am blessed with. Having said that, taking one with a traditional bow is certainly more rewarding.

Hum, well said, I'm sure I agree with somebody here but I got tired before I figured it all out. I hunt wif what I choose and don't ask permission or for acceptance. The fact that I'm here on this site is a hint to what I choose. Enjoy your choice.

I just read through all the posts on this thread. Quite a few make little sense to me. We hunt to kill things, I know folks say "I do it to get outdoors or enjoy the company of other hunters"!! But if you get right down to it, we hunt to kill things. Why then do so many people say they could care less about eating tag soup or I have not killed anything in 6 years and it doesn't bother me. Well I say BS, then go hunt with a camera or just spend time in the woods. Hunting is by definition pursuing game to actually kill at the end of a successful hunt. If I did not kill anything for 6 years I would shoot myself. The end of the means is too take home some game for the table so please to the guys who could care less about killing something just stop hunting and become a nature lover. Shawn

Shawn...SMH. Your motivation for hunting may not be the same as others. It sure isn't mine.

Aldo Leopold, America's pre-eminent nature lover, was also a bowhunter. Accounts I have read indicated he was, unfortunately, not very successful at killing game. I very much admire the man, his ethic, and his promotion of the North American model of wildlife management which we as hunters all benefit from.

I love elk meat, and if mule deer tasted like elk or store-bought beef I would probably pursue them with more tenacity. But they don't, so I don't. Doesn't mean I will stop hunting them, though. And heaven help any grouse I might encounter during my bowhunting excursions.

That said, I maintain that in this day and age, few, if any of us would starve if we didn't come home with game. There are cheaper options than hunting for obtaining meat, including buying it from organic producers.

I don't think I condemned anyones way of hunting. I said I wouldn't use bait and said I fill all the tags I want to. But I could care less about how anyone else hunts as long as its legal. The bait users maybe shouldn't get so upset or feel threatened from guys just saying how they hunt. I'm not trying to force my hunting methods on anyone but would like the same consideration.

"The bait users maybe shouldn't get so upset or feel threatened from guys just saying how they hunt..."

Pretty sure I didn't see any who did. Folks who hunt over bait generally don't give a .... what anyone else thinks about it. The opposite however, is rarely true.

Its is not about what motivates someone it is what hunting is, it is going out and killing something or at least trying hard to kill something, not just a walk in the woods!! I really have a problem with guys saying they are hunters when they never kill anything. Sorry the main goal is too kill something as I said otherwise you are just watching nature. Shawn

"One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted...

Scooby, I guess I'm a little more in your camp these days - esp. since I am also an avid photographer. I mean, if it TRULY doesn't matter to me whether I bring home some game or not, then I may as well take my camera along. The license is a lot cheaper! LOL

I'm a hunter. I don't apologize for that. I'm not a stylist or a hopeless romantic. I'm pretty practical. Yes, I prefer to take my game with a traditional bow when possible but if that doesn't get the job done and I still need meat, then you bet I'm bringing out the hardware. I consider an empty freezer a failure on my part. I expect and frankly my wife expects, for me to put venison on the table every year.

There has not likely been a time when "slipping thru the woods and arrowing a deer" was less likely than now, in the US anyway.

Brunse, deer populations are as high as they have been since probably the late 1800's, if not earlier. That's why some of these guys can say, with confidence, that they can fill their freezers with trad gear "every year." Because there are in fact places where that's possible. I did it in Illinois, on public land and if times ever got tough, I had at least a half dozen private farms to hunt where the deer were plentiful and dumb.

Not every place is like that though, and 'round these parts the public land is overwhelmed by hunters - even bowhunters. So yea, the idea of "slipping through the woods and arrowing a deer" is - as you say - very unlikely.

But that won't keep some folks from trying, and a few - from actually believing they can. I guess hope like that is what makes the world go 'round.

Good post KPC.

We studied this in college - using Maslow's Pyramid of the Needs of Man, adapted to hunters. That is the foundation for Alsheimer's "five stages." There are many versions.

As far as "killing everything you see..." Well, I don't see anyone above saying that.

There is one stage that's missing above and that's the "full freezer" stage between Method and Sportsman. LOL

I'm not sure about the 5 stage idea. I suppose that would apply to many but not all.

Some will always be "shooters" or "trophy" hunters or "methods" ect... or any combination of above.

Makes for interesting reading anyhow.

I must in level..."shooter" because killing a nice gobbler or big game animal IS a sense of accomplishment to me..

I must also be a... "limiting out" because I often make use of multiple tags..

Must be a.. "trophy" hunter also at times as well, because I often pass on smaller buck or young gobblers.

must be a "methods" hunter as well because I often have a desire to kill with a certain type or particular weapon , which often varies, and not really interested in anything else. And I often desire to hunt a particular area or terrain.

And I'm interested in passing on the tradition, preservation of public land wildlife management.....and Lord knows I've killed my share of game and have a pretty good idea of their habits.

So what am I?... LOL... well I guess I'm just a plain old hunter.

Just the sort of junk I've come to expect from the typical university "study".

Those Drs have too much free time and too much of somebody else's money.

For myself...hunting is about all the preparation, knowledge, experience and effort which results in the...opportunity...to kill. My reward is the moment I am very close to a game animal and have earned the opportunity to kill...or pass. I've passed thousands of shot opportunities over many decades of hunting, and for varied reasons. Sometimes I just don't feel the predatorial urge. Maybe the timing isn't what I want. I've probably got wild game in the freezer and have no desire to kill another animal simply because I can. And yet...I'm hunting. The one constant is that I CAN kill if the mood and timing is right.

I know plenty of guys who hunt steadily and pass multiple animals and shot ops. They feel no urgency or need to kill. They want to experience the hunt, and in some cases prolong it by NOT killing an animal.

A few years ago I didn't take a game shot for almost 2 years. I passed chances and did it deliberately. I think a few friends were wondering if I'd lost "it"...the desire. Finally on a good early November morning I killed a huge doe. The next morning I killed my second mature doe and followed that 15 minutes later with a coyote licking her blood trail. An hour after that I killed a mature 8 pt. It took just over 24 hours and 4 arrows. My freezer held meat for a long time. Every animal was killed with a very short shot. I was good with the killing. It didn't mean a thing had changed. I still hunt when I want and kill when I'm ready. I won't cheat the processes that matter to me. I will probably think of myself as a hunter, even if you don't.

I'll also eat beef and love it. Grilled pork chops tonight. Moose stew tomorrow night. Local brats. Big venison burgers. Filet mignon off the grill. Roasted black bear with mixed vegetables. Sockeye salmon and Alaska halibut. Home-grown strawberries and store-bought pineapple. Good bourbon, craft beer and superb wines. It all goes with my values and lifestyle.

At some point in my bowhunting I naturally progressed to a more patient mentality.

A mentality that...when the time is right...When its the right shot...the right animal.

I pass on game, and pass on shots far more than I used to. Don't bother me in the least to not loose an arrow.

Ironically along with a more laid back patient approach....my success rate went up and I kill more often.

However, I hunt to kill. Might as well not sugar coat it.

I'm not out there for a casual stroll in the woods. I can do that anytime without a bow.

I hunt for the meat, and yes I do enjoy my surroundings, the whole aspect of the hunt. But my bow has a purpose and that is my intent.

I'm getting ready as soon as I get off here to go for a scouting trip. Beautiful afternoon here in PA scouting for gobblers, hunting for mushrooms enjoying the day. I'll be carrying a hickory walking stick.

Next Sat I will be carrying a bow.....And my intent will be different.

I kill if I want to, I hunt because I have too. I run hares and let my beagle put a hare by me a couple of times before I take a shot. Many times, if I miss, I sit down make a fire, boil up a tea,cook sausage, and let Ziggy, my hound, enjoy himself chasing that hare. It's hunting to me.

Cook tea and sausage if you miss?

What the heck?

I really don't think I ever heard of that before.

The only white hare I ever shot at with a bow, I killed, in Montana. Oh, and in the Adirondacks once, I killed a European hare with a rock, cooked it on an open fire and drank an abundance of beer to wash it down. That's the closest I've ever come to the above scenario. :^) It sure beat beef...

When it is zero or below, a cup of tea and fire cooked sausage is pretty nice. I sometimes cook trout right on the bank of a brook with my brother or granddaughter. It's fun.

I think I ate an apple once in a tree stand.

Cooked plenty hotdogs with my wife on a stick over open fire during outings, and a few times stick grilled chunks of elk steak, during cold months just for fun. Cooked fresh kokanee on the gunwale frying pan on a grill on Drowshak Reservoir and nothing in the world could ever beat that for best tasting fish out in the wilds. But when I'm hunting, I'm not cooking or even making a fire, unless I'm in dire straits. Only once needed a fire during hunting to stay warm, in very sub zero Montana...

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