I don't get that either Craig. And I don't do PayPal either. A friend went to a furniture store. Wanted to buy a table. He asked if he could get a better price with cash. The salesman said cash cost them more than credit fees. They have to pay and armor car to pick up the cash. Haha it's a strange world we live in. Jim

PayPal is almost instantaneous. I can find a bow and pay for it in the blink of an eye. Before I have time to come to my senses and decide against it. I don't have to make time for a trip to the post office for a money order. I can pay you and have the bow ship the same day. I'm one of the only people amongst all my friends and family that doesn't have a Facebook account, but I do PayPal! It's good stuff.

I've done both PP & MO , PP is certainly quicker. But I don't mind waiting for the MO to reach me or the seller. With that said I have lately had two pieces of mail lost that I sent to two different people. I haven't had that happen in a long time.

He probably needed to use a credit card to buy it. Can't do that with a check or money order last I checked. To me cash is king for sure.

I much prefer PayPal. It's secure, the person you are sending it to has a certified address and there is protection. Yes they charge a fee but it isn't enough to make me stop using them.

Money orders are $7.50 each plus postage and the trip to the Post Office. Paypal is free if you are buying and I am covered...I don't mind paying the small fee when I am selling. I will send a MO when requested but it's a ponderous pain in the butt.

Maybe he didn't have the actual cash in hand and wanted to use paypal because its tied to his credit card? While it can be linked to your bank account it can be tied to cards as well. This is the only reason I can think of as to why he may have insisted since you were going to ship prior to payment.

I like it because it is fast and if I want an item I can put cash in someone's hand right away and it gives the seller confidence that I am not a scammer. Its also helpful for the buyer to have the electronic trail in case the seller is a fake. However, I only buy from people that have a solid history here. Its worked out well for me and those I've done transactions with here.

Glitter goat wrote what I was thinking. Some folks (me most of my adult life) find it easier to come up with the money in 30 days (CC) vs. today.

I like PP -- simple, fast, and secure if you do it correctly. It is a 20-mile round trip for me to go to town for M.O. I'll do it if the buyer wants though. The method of payment accepted has never cost me a sale or prevented me from buying.

Also, don't allow anyone (unless you know them well enough) to pay by PP and then pick up the item directly from you. I called PP and was surprised to get a person. They told me folks have been burned by accepting PP payment and then the buyer visits to pick up the item. If you don't have a record of that pick-up the buyer can say he never got the item and then 6 months or so later you are being invoiced for a refund from PP.

Craig you get a paypal account lol

i resisted as well but to be honest it's the best thing i've done has many more advantages than just bows i will accept a postal money order and i will send one but it's a pain,money orders cost a couple of bucks and then if you ship them priority that's another 6 bucks and they have to arrive i bought a bow from a guy in NC we know each other so we both sent at the same time the bow arrived to me on time but it took 21 days for the MO to get to him since i paid cash for it i had already spent my money i would have had to do a claim just to get my cash back pay pal all the way!

If you're from another country like he is they may very well be. I do PayPal and money order but PayPal is such a better deal for me because it's a different money account....one my wife doesn't keep track of lol.

I don't get it either Craig. I've lost sales because I don't have a Paypal account, always ask for a postal MO. I've always figured the fewer people that have access to my personal and bank info the better.

In one case I asked a prospective buyer why the MO was a deal breaker. He replied that he had money in his Paypal account but didn't know if he could get the cash out of the account, that he had never tried.

So here is a question for Paypal account holders, can cash in your account be accessed easily?

Talkin about the $7.50 cost of money orders in my last post.

USPS money orders $1.20 to $1.65 depending on amount up to $1000.00 Plus trip to the post office.

From the buyer's perspective, using Paypal is just a credit card loan. The person can charge it through PayPal whereas he may not have had the necessary cash to purchase it outright.

As a buyer, I don't mind using Paypal, but I won't pay the transaction fee that sellers often try to push on to the buyer. The transaction is at least as beneficial to the seller as the buyer. The seller gets his money immediately, trouble free and guaranteed. The buyer takes out a credit card loan on which he has to pay interest. Adding a transaction fee to that (which is paid by the merchant in all other credit card transactions) is a rip off

It's simple really, Pay Pal works. Get with the times.

I do not understand why somebody would not use pay pay tha account is free and it you can add the associated cost onto the purchase price . There is no safe method .

I do not understand why somebody would not use pay pay tha account is free and it you can add the associated cost onto the purchase price . There is no safe method .

I've used it now for quite a number of years. Had on instance of a broken bow that got taken care of almost immediately. I like it because if you ship to a verified address (which you should always do), you are covered for mishap. Never had a problem through them, and frankly it makes plenty of sense to me. For those who argue about the cost, try looking at your cell phone bills and credit cards. Nothing is free...you have to pay for protection. 3% doesn't offend me at all and I have buyer protection.

I have done thousands of PayPal transactions. Posts Money orders are a nuisance. I recently had a money order transaction where the seller gave me a Slightly incorrect address...it got returned to me a week later and I had to mail it again and wait. You aren't notified when it clears....to find out IF it has cleared, you have to pay a fee, fill out a form...classic government at work.

That should read "there is no safer method" .

You can get money out if you ha e a balance in your PayPal account and a PayPal debit card. For me I do PayPal and if the seller does not I pass. If I use PayPal I'm covered and they are covered plus I don't have to go the post office which is a pain.

When I started building Kustom, I only took M.O and checks.... what a pita that was... either can be easily forged not to mention the 15 mile one way trip to the post office and whether they even had enough to cash it..... now I only do paypal, never had a problem and we are both protected.......

I have used PayPal since 2001, with thousands of transactions as buyer and seller and not one glitch. Haven't written a check in so long I can't recall the last one (I bank online). Money Orders are a pain. As a buyer; I have to get money from my PayPal account via ATM and a $4.50 total transaction fee, then drive to the Post Office (or somewhere else), wait in line, buy the money order, fill it out, put it in an envelope, buy a stamp, mail it....then hope it arrives to the seller in a timely manner. No thank you, I'm just too old for that sort of hassle...not when the alternative is a secure couple of clicks, with beer in hand, in my underwear, from the comfort of my recliner, and I'm done.

Not buying privately if I have to make the trip to the PO for a money order. It's the seller's decision at that point.

I just sold three vehicles in Alaska. Had them on Alaska's list and on Craigslist.

I received multiple calls from characters who had phone numbers in other states. They wanted to pay me with Paypal and then said they would have someone pick up the vehicle. They were willing to do this without even inspecting the vehicle.

Red flags were everywhere and I declined.

I know this was a scam, but I'm perplexed as to how it works???

Here some answers off the paypal website:

https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/article/scams-on-craigslist- and-other-classifieds-websites-faq3022

Based on the article, it appears they may try to send you a spoofed email saying you got paid or the funds are hold, then pick up your item.

If it smells wrong, it probably is. Your gut feeling usually is right.

Same old arguments

Im with you.I dont need to sell anything bad enough to take PP.I've never had a bad transaction or the so-called "counterfeit postal mo" (my postmaster's has never seen one)

To each his own.

The few I have done I used Bank money orders. I have a bow in transit from Rms gear and I sent them a bank mo in US funds. My wife, who is my financial manager, just informed me that our Royal bank fee is $4.oo per month, that includes m orders. Sandy

People also like paypal because of Paypal credit. 6mos to pay without interest

I think PP is safer than mailing a MO or Check. A LOT more convenient too. I usually don't get off work in time to get to the PO before they close. So I have to take leave just for a simple transaction.

If folks don't want to use it, I completely understand. But they also should realize they are forfeiting business, just like companies that don't accept debit or credit cards. And yes, there still are a few of those out there, and they aren't growing businesses if you know what I mean.

I've not had a single negative incident with paypal, since 2006, thousands of transactions, not one problem. As easy as it is to get an use, there's really no sense in letting old school pride get in the way of making sales you'd otherwise make. Depends if you like completing sales or missing out on them I guess. Times change, resist all you want but, but you either participate of miss out.

(I'm the same way with cel phones, I still don't have one)

I much prefer to do business using paypal because it is secure and gives both parties protection against fraud. I bought a riser from a guy and it all went wrong, but in the end paypal refunded my money without any charge for the service. I for one truly believe in it and by the way I'm seventy years old.

Grouse

I won't buy without using PayPal it just doesn't make sense, and it has nothing to do with using a credit card. You click send and the money is there, you can see it and you have protection vs driving to a post office and dropping a money order in a mailbox, waiting the 3+ days for it to get there, hoping the seller responds with a confirmation and hoping you don't get scammed by a random internet seller you think you know. Who doesn't use paypal?

Paypal can be great it can also be a HUGE headache if things don't go as planned.

I've used it since ~2000 (before the ebay purchase and subsequent split)

Issue #1 - Because it is an automated system a minor glitch becomes a major issue in a split second. I forgot to update my credit card Exp date. They tried to charge me three times in one minute. My account got locked and they wanted more info than the IRS to re-open it. I declined and let it die.

After ebay bought them I talked to someone and my issue was resolved quickly without supplying extra/excess info.

Issue #2 - A customer ordered from me. I shipped. He didn't bother to pick up his crester after the PO notified him. (international) It sat at his PO for three weeks. He got two notices in the first week. Without checking into it he screams at PP. They lock the funds. I supply all the info showing HE messed up. PP ignores it. (I really don't think a human ever looks) It keeps escalating up their "dispute" chain. I keep supplying info he keeps doing nothing. In the midst of this I find out the PO got tired of storing it and sent it back.

All PP does is keep telling me to make him happy. The easiest way to do that was to refund him minus shipping ($60 to Europe) Of course I wait until the crester made it back, then I paid. So it cost me $60 for doing everything I was supposed to do.

A year later the jackwagon ordered again.

Try and talk or even email a HUMAN at PP. Good luck.

Sure PP is awesome if........

That said I still use it, but I don't like it.

Regarding Postal Money orders. If you are worried cash them at the PO and there is no issue. If it's fake they know. if it's not your paid and all is well.

I find it pretty irritating to have to drive to town, buy a postal money order, mail it, wait for it to get there, then wait for the bow to ship and arrive. I will gladly pay (on a purchase) the paypal fees as they are less than the cost of driving to town and back on most bows. Plus I really like the element of protection that I have when Paypal stands behind the transaction. I went the postal money order route on a Tall Tines purchase the other day. It took about an extra week to get the bow here.

I had received a $400 USPS money order. I went to six PO in the metro area and they could not cash it. They said they have very little cash on hand as most folks are using credit now. I have to deposit or cash a PO money order at my bank which is 35 miles away from my home. Paypal works.

Paypal is so much easier. After many wasted trips to the post office trying to cash money orders, I don't deal outside of PP anymore. The guys who don't accept paypal rule out at least half of potential buyers imo. Hard to beat a safe instantaneous payment.

Most things have been addressed and minds are made up,so I doubt this will even be read. I lost a sale because fellow had money in Pay Pal but no cash. I received a bow that had undisclosed damaged,Pay pal took care of it. I am also an electronics doofus. No tweets,no face,book,no photo account,but pay Pal has been good for me both ways and it is, INSTANT-INSTANT-INSTANT with protection. Good Luck >>>------> Ken

I don't have the self control for PayPal. Amazon is bad enough. Luckily i live close enough to the post office and back that getting, and cashing, USPS money orders is easy. To each their own.

Yep, it's all about protection for the seller and the buyer. Done many transactions here and elsewhere. And I know that bow (or whatever) will be in my hands in a couple days. It's all good!

Just bought a bow from a fellows Waller. We used PayPal with Friends and Family and saved the 3%. I had the bow faster than I would have been able to make it to the post office to even get the snail mail process started.

I only do Postal Money Orders and have lost a few sales because of it, it with that said the bows always ended up selling to someone else . Pay Pal is not always safe ! I have said this on here before, last year someone opened up a Pay Pal account under my name and information. They were selling stuff on internet and taking payments and not sending any items to people. Then I get contacted by Pay Pal , told them it was not me. We did finally get it all cleared up but was not easy to get done. I'm not sure what happened to those people who got there money took . BUT one thing I know is I'm not opening a Pay Pal account so someone can buy a bow from me, I will just keep the bow first and hang it back on the rack with the others. To each his own !

At gas stations I even still see people pay at the window with cash! One guy told me he'll never use a card at the pump for fear of getting it hacked by a hidden scanner. So be it, and everyone chooses what they like.

I pay with a card at the pump. I pay with a card online. I have a Square Register account and can take CC payments from anyone. I have a PP account which has money going both ways all the time. I've had zero problems. I will testify that not having a PP account would surely stop me from buying from many sellers, and it would definitely cost me sales if I didn't accept PP.

Way to go Craig! Ive done business with you & will vouch for your Christian integrity!

Dont let it worry you bro. Neither will i ever use Paypal again. Paypal has their own hustler cons too.

Dan nailed it.

I use paypal, and know lots of sellers who have gotten ripped off (though possibly in Dan's case the guy was just disorganized.). What those sellers say is that it is the cost of doing business. Seems like maybe archery people are a little more honest, or at least the ones from here are, because most of what you hear here is positive. The cost of doing business works out when you have lots of sales. If you put up a real treasure and you get DKd, and you don't do thousands of transaction, it isn't going to feel so good.

I would worry more if I was buying and selling in a more recognized market, like Bear bows, where there are clear scams in the system.

I think Paypal's attitude when it comes to settling disputes is that money is attached to monsters in the banking system that are a lot more potential trouble than whatever it is your 19th century frying pan you just got DKs on is attached to. It is easier for them to tell you to eat it, than to fight with the "buyer's" bank.

Speaking of Quebec. A curiosity of the Canadian banking system is that it is usually 10 years ahead of the US, not to mention less collapse prone. A variety of reasons for that, some of which are pure accident. So for instance when I started out in the 80s there were a half dozen major banks in Canada, and there was not a whole tranche of minor ones that were widely used. In the US there were well over 10 thousand banks at the time. It is a lot easier to organize something like instant tellers, when you only have to talk to 5 other banks to do it.

Just so folks don't get the sense that whatever is going on in this thread is because Canada runs it's banking system out of a sugar shack in the woods.

Zero reason not to have paypal. If you have a bank account get paypal. A guy decided to buy one of my bows last night 11:30pm. Jist texted him tracking info. How fast is that? Plus you dont have to leave the couch for the buyer anyway. I dont have time to go chasing down money orders.

Craig, I ran into the same deal. I only did USPS M.O.'s. After listening to a guy I know well, saying how PP was the only way to go, I made the jump. I now understand why so many like it. It's SAFE. After many sales and purchases, not one wrinkle, blink, problem...nothing.

the reason I haven't gotten a PP account is a friend got burned twice by PP. he sold and shipped out 2 items, both different address. once the buyers received their items, both waited 2 days and reported the items 'broken'. PP refunded their money and my friend didn't get the items back. that sounds like my luck and I don't want to take that chance.

I'll tell you a flip-side story...

It's been a long time ago (1980s) but a guy sent me bow on approval after I had already bought one from him a month earlier. The bow was great and I mailed him a check...he lived about 5 hours away. After 4 days he contacted me and said no check yet. At a week he was obviously not happy and I insisted it had been mailed. Ten days and he was plainly ticked and questioning whether I had even sent it. I gave him an option: wait on that check to arrive or send him another one. He chose to have another check sent which I did and sent certified. I stopped payment on the first check of course.

Four days later he called me and was furious...cursing, threatening and going crazy. Told me he'd cashed my check and his bank later notified him it had a stop order on it. He was screaming and you wouldn't believe the verbal exchange we had. He was going to drive to my house and give me a ....and I promised to drop him on the front lawn near the roses if he did. He said I owed him a check and I told him it was mailed to his address and NOW he had no choice but to wait on it. In other words...pound salt.

So the second check was cashed and I got the USPS receipt back. The amazing thing was he received and cashed that check the same day he was going nuts. I can't prove it but to this day I think he was broke (as in desperate) and tried to play me for 2 checks.

I find that PayPal eliminates the games and gets the deal done. Nobody is left waiting for their money.

I was a holdout for postal money orders only. But, after many trips to the post office to cash them, and finding they don't have the funds to do so (come back tomorrow, maybe we'll have that much cash then), I came around. I much prefer dealing with paypal now.

I didn't appreciate pay pal until I got it and started using it.

I fought it as well then I got it and set up a repartee account that I use for various things as it worked out just fine for me.

Glad I go it.

As I said minds are made up. Even the bad example given Pay Pal fixed it, made it good. The same thing has happened to ever bank in the country. Ever one seems to have heard of folks getting ripped off. Yet there seems to be no examples that were not made right. You can order from most any company on line and they take Pay Pal. WONDER WHY????? >>>------> Ken

Pay Pal for me. USPS Money Orders are almost impossible to cash. The PO's around here keep very little cash since most customers use debit cards. The bank will let me deposit, but not cash them. PP is all I take unless you want to send cash. Jim

Should have been separate account.

I have used PP for years. I buy and sell with PP. Sometimes I sell a few things and build up my PP account and then use it for buying. If the balance gets up high, I send it to my bank account. If the balance is low, I drain the PP account for the purchase and the rest comes out of my bank account.

I've never had an issue and have had several sales or purchases that required a refund. Its super fast, trackable, easy and has more protections than some other options.

I've found they both work and will do what the other party feels comfortable with. In many ways I prefer Paypal but I do like a good old USPS money order too.

Get PP. You won't regret it and every year more and more people won't do business with you if you don't have it. Just go to PP and follow the instructions for setting up an account.

Just wish more Outfitters used PP. Those that don't should consider it.

I'm a coin collector and use PMO only. Of all the dealers that I have bought from, only 6 use pay-pal only. Had a problem with PPal, so will not use them.

As a buyer I wouldn't do anything but PayPal when I buy online. It doesn't matter if I have the money or not, PayPal gives me layers of protection. If the seller doesn't send the item, then I can ask PayPal to refund me and that is instant. It also protects the seller. When you send a bow to the buyer, adding the shipping tracking information protects the seller from claims like: I didn't receive the bow.

I only use cash or check when I am dealing with a reputable business or face-to-face transactions. No offense to the original poster, especially when he offers to ship the bow before the payment, but this site unfortunately proved to be a scammers haven. I've seen bows listed here were listed elsewhere, different time frame, different user, but same exact pictures and description.

PayPal is the only way to go! Had an account for about as long as they have existed. I will say, they are better for the buyer than the seller as far as protection goes. If I lived in the small town in Kansas where my parents live and was retired,i wouldn't mind going to the post office so much, but I live in Denver Metro and last week I worked 72hours and I don't want to go to the post office on my days off!

Here is my issue when not using Pay Pal!! I myself like doing a USPS M.O. but from now on will only do Pay-Pal and here is why. If I am selling a bow, I always communicate with the buyer, even exchange phone numbers and such. 100% of the time if you buy a bow from me I send as soon as you say you sent the M.O. I do not wait for the M.O. A lot of times the person buying the bow gets it before I get the M.O as I send 2-3 day mail and they said M.O snail mail. Really never had an issue, I expect people to do the same. Why is one out more then the other?? If I don't send bow the buyer is out, if he don't send money I am out. Get my point?? I just bought a bow, sent 150 pay-pal and then sent M.O 2-3 day mail for the balance for said bow. The guy then tells me he never sends out the merchandise until he gets the money. It is working out fine, but I don't think that is right. He is not a retailer, we are two guys doing a deal over the internet. So now, Pay-Pal in full so I get my stuff a whole lot quicker!! AGAIN, someone tell me why one is out anymore then the other?? Either way it is done, if one of is a liar or a crook someone gets hurt. Why is it the buyer that takes all the chances?? Shawn

I will accept a USPS MO because I never had a problem, but I'll admit PP is easier. Once I ordered some ramin dowels, paid with PP, but when they got to my house, they were some weird, soft tropical wood, not ramin. Contacted the seller, and was immediately issued a refund, and I could keep the dowels, that I gave away.

Shawn probably because about 200 times on here people haave said they got sent a fake check. Buyers back out all the time and if I have shipped the bow they have to ship it back on the honor system. If I go to Walmart they don't give me groceries on the promise that the check is in the mail and I know most of the cashiers. I'm not trying to be a smart ass just illustrating that the seller no matter if they are people or corporations wants cash in hand before the product is delivered and I don't blame them one bit. That's a big reason why PayPal became the mega corporation that it is instant payment for goods and services with built in protection. Talking on the phone only gets you so far and is a pain in the butt for folks who have their plates full with families etc. I talk to criminals everyday on the phone and in person and they are believable. 3 percent to not have that hassle is worth every penny and yes I most always pay the sellers fee and very seldom do the friends and family option unless it's actually friends or family.

D-how can you say that? There is no and I mean no reason either the seller or buyer is at more of a risk. Remember I am talking guys who have exchanged phone numbers talked on the phone and have a history here or other sites, not some idiot who post once or responds to an ad in the classifieds. I can honestly say that you could send me a PM right now and say" Hey I will take those arrows you have for sale for 70 bucks. I will get M.O out to you in a day or two". I would ship you the arrows tomorrow morning, no questions asked. See my point? Well thats a lie, cause I would have to ask for your addy! I would easily do that with a ton of guys on here! The example in my post above was actually my fault for just assuming and never really asking. Shawn

I like PP but it is the sellers choice to method of payment. I do not buy and sell like many others here so can only say what I have done has worked out to each parties satisfaction. I usually trust the person, yes someday I may get bit, and send out the item before receiving money. I also understand why a person will insist on a certain method of payment. Yes, our PO can scan the money order to see if it is real. Luckily my bank and PO are across street from each other 5 minutes from my home.

I bought a bow off of here from Sipsey River. He suggested Pay Pal and although I had an account through Ebay, I never used it. I was able to talk to John while I sent the funds and he could log in and see they were sent, while on the phone.

True I was dealing with someone I trusted, but I think if I was the seller dealing with someone I didn't know or was unsure of, I would do the PP thing.

Scooby: I have had folks send me the item before my MO reached them, but I would have been satisfied had they waited until my payment got to them. Over the years, I've done a lot of transactions here and on another site and I have had three people tell me "the check is in the mail" when it wasn't, and never was. This was usually after fairly substantial communication with the buyers. That's why I don't send the item before I receive payment.

I agree that the seller is just as much at risk as the buyer and that PP removes that risk for both from the transaction. What I don't agree with is the seller transferring the transaction fee onto the buyer. Why? In setting up a PP account to sell goods, the seller contracts with PP to pay the transaction fee on goods he sells.

In all other credit transactions, the business/seller pays the transaction fee, the buyer in effect is taking out a credit card loan to make the payment and pays interest on the loan. So the buyer is paying for the convenience and protection that way. Why should he have to pay the seller to protect the seller as well? For me, that's a deal breaker. It's the principle of the thing, not the amount of money involved, which usually isn't much.

pay pal is sweet, quick, easy, and keeps the records for you, I can see why someone purchasing for a school or the like would want to use it.

I just bought a real nice bamboo fly rod from China. Got a great deal but if it wasn't for pay pal I wouldn't have bought it.

Orion I too have had it just the opposite, that is my point. I had guys tell me, I sent the bow so I send the M.O. then I get the bow 6 or 7 days later, then I see the postmark and see they waited to get their money. Never deal with them again, its about honesty and not just that but integrity!! I was bought up I give someone my word I stand by it. Stranger or not. I have literally done over 2 hundred deals over the years, I had one issue and that was fleabay. There was other minor things like I said but both parties always were satisfied. Shawn

"What I don't agree with is the seller transferring the transaction fee onto the buyer. Why? In setting up a PP account to sell goods, the seller contracts with PP to pay the transaction fee on goods he sells."

I do agree with this in principle. The only exception I could see would be where a seller states up front that he will not accept PayPal due to the fee and resulting reduced net payment. That's usually a bigger deal on bigger items where PP fees can producing a sucking sound in the wallet. Then if the buyer wants to use PP anyway...he can agree (or decline) to handle the PP fee.

A couple of ways people overcome this: They simply add money to the base selling price and won't sell it as cheap in order to account for PP's take. They do a person-to-person (as in 'send money to friends or family') transaction which avoids any fee at all. I don't prefer that unless I know I'm dealing with a trusted guy on the other end.

Paypal definitely. Easy to use. I live 15 miles from a decent po and my bank. Makes selling and buying so much easier. Also Paypal provided me with a card reader so I can even swipe cards when I am at an outdoor show selling turkey calls. I also gather mushrooms, ramps and other outdoor edibles to sell to local restaurants, when they know I can just swipe their business card they buy way more poundage of goods!

Orion wrote: "...In all other credit transactions, the business/seller pays the transaction fee, the buyer in effect is taking out a credit card loan to make the payment and pays interest on the loan...

That's actually inaccurate. The seller already built-in to his sale price about 3% more to cover his costs for accepting credit cards. It's the same for everything we buy from any business that accepts credit cards.

Hey Craig Webby here from CNY, usually don't post on Leatherwall mainly because I have to remember pass words going to be posting now that I think I know what I'm doing. I have pay pal and I have a ton of bows If I see one I want and don't have funds I have a dedicated archery credit card I use, it's that or sell something first. I have used it a fair amount and never had an issue. Hope all is well.

Bill

True, Jim, but actually, most credit card transactions cost businesses a fixed transaction fee that is way less than 3%, though card suppliers may have had to raise rates they charge businesses to cover increasing credit card losses/theft, etc. Yes, businesses do incorporate the fees they pay the card suppliers into the price of their goods, but it is minuscule by comparison.

I agree that the seller could incorporate the fee into the asking price, and I'm sure many do. Then, it's up to the buyer to decide if he wants to buy the item at that price or attempt to negotiate a lower price. Separating the fee from the price makes the item look less expensive than it actually is.

In the end, I suppose it's most often a wash, but as a buyer, I'm not going to knowingly pay the seller the total cost of a service that benefits him at least as much as it does me, especially when it's a cost that the seller contractually agreed to pay the service provider.

Kevin: I agree that if the buyer rather than the seller demands to use Pay Pal, it would be appropriate for the seller to ask the buyer to pay the fee.

I don't like the idea of sending money "to family/friends" as a way to avoid the fee. That's less than honest, IMO, and I won't do it. Using that feature also voids the insurance/guarantees to seller and buyer.

I'd like for someone to help me find a credit card company with a transaction fee that costs less that 3%. By the time I pay their monthly fees, base % fee, swiping fee, call in fee and billing fees it costs a little more than 3%.

They told me when I signed up, it would only cost 1.5%.

Imagine that.

Jim: Fees have obviously gotten more numerous and complex since I last looked. The fees you describe though are a different kind, the kind financial institutions charge their card users for the use of the card.

The big card suppliers, Visa and MasterCard, for example, make their products available through financial institutions, for which they charge the financial institutions. To recoup those costs and make a profit, your bank may tack on all kinds of fees for your use of the card. What they can't get in interest they'll make up for with fees. I wasn't aware they charged cardholders a transaction fee, but some might. The card swiping fee you list sure looks like a transaction fee.

The fee I was talking about is the one the credit card supplier, i.e., Visa and Mastercard, charge the merchant to process the transaction. Every time a customer uses his/her card to purchase something from a business, that business is charged a fee to have the transaction processed through the financial system by Visa or Mastercard.

PayPal doesn't issue credit cards so it can't charge cardholders for the cards, but it can charge them to use their cards in the Paypal payment system. The transaction fee they charge sellers is similar to the transaction fee that Visa charges merchants, just a lot higher.

Pay-Pal, very safe for buyer and seller

Being in Australia , with the tyranny of distance I'm a PayPal guy . I have sent Money Orders that never turned up ... it's embarrassing to say the least and dang expensive. PayPal , as much as I dislike Internet crossing with Money is secure and quick

I had a deal working on this site. Soon as I mentioned PayPal I never heard from guy again.

I have done MOs but I now have PayPal. Probably for the best.

Depends on what country the other persons bank is in as to whether my bank will allow paypal. Paypal does not send your money to the other personas bank. They send your bank info, account number etc... If his bank is in Afganistan, Indonesia or another high risk country my bank turns it down to avoid scammers. I've only had it happen twice at which time they told me why. I haven't used PP since.

Paypal it is for me, buying or selling, unless I know you. If that sentiment is returned to me, no big deal. If the seller won't take paypal, then I need not buy it, again, unless I know you.

Paypal does all the verifying and vetting. Buy and sell with reassurance and confidence.

re: Jim Castro Jr.

Most CC processors promote the low fee of around 1.50% to 1. 75% per transaction and always making it sound great. But after all of the other fees, taxes, etc. are added on at the end it comes to 3% 0r 4%. Just like the cell phone companies with all of their fine print add ons. One thing a guy really needs to do is check the CC processors customer satisfaction ratings. And never commit to a contract. Find one that does not require one and find one that gets your batch deposit to your bank account the next business day. You hear horror stories of folks waiting several days to a week or more before it shows up in their bank acct. In our business we use IMA in Omaha and are real happy with them.

Paypal is a giant bank, run by another giant company - e-bay. Both take great care to maintain their security and their reputations.

I prefer using paypal over giving my credit card # to so many places. PPO has the card #, they charge me, the seller never sees my number; he just gets a 'you got paid' message.

I've sent checks too, but to people I 'know' and trust from a history of forum interaction. Been lucky.

BK: Regardless of what the card provider charges the user to use the card, my point is that in a PayPal transaction, the buyer is already paying that card use fee and paying interest on the loan he takes out in using the card. Why should he also pay the transaction fee that the seller has agreed to pay Paypal to serve as the money transfer agent?

My beef is not with Paypal. It's a very good payment system. My beef is with sellers who try to pass the transaction fee onto the buyer, particularly because the seller is reaping a huge benefit from the service -- i.e., guaranteed, trouble free payment.

Orion wrote: "...My beef is with sellers who try to pass the transaction fee onto the buyer..."

We keep going in circles, huh? :^)

The reason is, that the buyer ALWAYS pays those costs. That's why everything we buy has a built-in cost increase of about 3% to cover the fees charged to the seller for offering credit cards sales.

The same principal applies to individual sellers. A guy wants $200.00, in his pocket, for his bow. To get that, he has to add on PayPal fees and shipping costs. To get the $200.00 in his pocket the bow will cost the buyer an addition $6.00 (for PayPal fees) plus... say $15.00 shipping fees. So.... the seller has to get $221.00 for the bow.

Seems pretty simple to me. Either you agree to the sellers terms or you don't by the bow.

I was once burned on a set of Guardian limbs. PayPal only refunded 30% of my money. I haven't used them in years.

-Joe

re: Orion

Totally agree with you. I was just responding to Castro about the fees that a store retail merchant is charged by their CC processing company to accept CC payments in their store. In our store we pay close to 3% of the ticket total of items paid for by CC's. CC processors try to sell themselves to the merchants (stores) by saying transaction fees are 1.5% (base price) but when its all said and done after adding on all of the processing fees, other assessments, govt. tax, etc. its more like 3% or more.

I agree Jim that the seller can just incorporate the fee into the price of the item. That would be fine with me. Then it's my decision to purchase or not. However, when I'm told outright that I as a buyer have to pay the seller's fee, it's a deal breaker for me. As I said before, it's not the money, it's the principle of the thing. Full circle again.

PayPal is not a bank at all. They are a mediator who sends you transaction and banking info to the other persons bank.

It's hard to scam PayPal but once your info is in the wrong hands ,who knows.that's why some banks turn down PayPal to other countries.

The only scam i,very heard to work is when you allow them to pick up the item.if you don,the get proof you gave it to them they file a complaint saying they didn,the get it and PayPal pulls the money from your account.

I don't think I've ever done it....

If a seller wants to use a payment method other than PayPal but the buyer insists on it, I'm okay with the seller going upfront and requesting the buyer pay the PP fee. I know a Stihl dealer who will tell you he accepts a CC but you'll need to pay the extra percentage. He's a good guy but he doesn't like dealing with CCs...and the fees they collect. He could just refuse them altogether but he gives customers the option.

PayPal could collect a percentage fee of every single transaction but they don't charge for people simply sending money to family or friends. Obviously PP knows a lot of fees are being left on the table as people sell things and bypass the fees by sending the money as a non-sale transaction. PP collects the vast and extreme majority of its fees from sellers and vendors who are conducting business on the web every single day. Some very large companies now accept PP payments.

There are plenty of counterfeit money orders out there, Pay Pal is far more secure...

Using PayPal's "friends and family" option for a purchase is an integrity issue. If you use their service, pay them their fee. Besides, if you don't get the item, or it is damaged, you would be out of luck if you said the payment was a gift. - John

I like PayPal...I dont like the fees but understand it is the convenience and safety you are paying for with qualified addresses.

Never used their credit card...I just have it set up and tied to my debit card...usually if I sell something I just leave money in there for next time.

Makes sense to use something that provides a level of security and insurance you cannot get with even a Money Order due to the counterfeits out there with them as well.

Paypal for sure. Will not buy online any other way.

That Darn PayPal is just to easy and convenient. I set it up originally to register for a seminar I was planning on attending, but now - I have a few more bows than I need. ;)

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