I have been struggling for a while with trying to understand people who seem to need permission to try something new. I think the internet has created a group of people who are so dependent on what others think it is foreign to them to learn by trial and error. Kind of like if Jeffer was still waiting for someone to make a video of how to shoot. Or Rooty was waiting for a tutorial on how to build strings and arrows. Or Peter was waiting for someone to compile a list of Howatt serial numbers. Or Larry Hatfield had decided to follow rather than lead. Or Frisky or Mr. Stout had no opinion. Leader or follower. Which path do you choose?

DDave

As part of this non discussion I would like to offer the acronym WWLD which of course asks What would Larry do?

DDave

I wonder about folks too.

I'm neither a natural follower or leader. I travel my own path, don't get lonely there, and don't need much in the way of advice or validation. I tend to question everything, but study, test, deduce, and DO on my own rather than ask others for answers. I don't mind helping folks who are willing to invest themselves, but many folks nowadays just want spoon fed, but then to say 'look what I can do'... part of the instant gratification thing perhaps. I don't play dat.

Hey have we a Canadian Frisky now? Why struggle with it Dave its the new wave of ignorance and lazy.

People don't even know the path they can't see the Forrest for the trees. Woodsnanship is a lost art they would rather shoot a lame deer and grow nip than do whats harder and do it on their own and learn it like the old dogs have.

Talk is cheap.

One last bit and then I will mind my business. What if Tony had chosen to wait until someone else wrote about it.

And my apologies to the leaders here I did not mention. You know who you are.

DDave out

Thanks for saying what I was really thinking Cat.

DDave

Created my own niche. Don't try to lead - just hang around with some old dog stories.

OH! OH! you did it now Dave.

I don't know what you're try to get at??? I'm guessing most of us are leaders and not very smart at least in this aspect. Part of my point is due to accessibility when we started, but we all (most of us) chose to take years and years to learn by ourselves (trial and error). Instead of choosing the fastest/easiest/most mistake free path of getting a coach.

In part, that's why we're satisfied with 20 yard accuracy and WHY Tony says we stink.

Bowmania

A Canadian Frisky!!!# ?? The Horror! .. ..The Horror!#&** sandy.

Im gonna move on to the next thread. Is that leading or following?

I have always repeated a mantra to my kids and students:

Drive fast but wear the helmet, look both ways before you take candy from strangers, but never pet the burning dog.

The intention is to encourage kids to take risks, they usually have great reward. Also to instruct them to not be stupid, pet the burning dog, there is nothing good that can come from that.

anyway I say this because I think the internet has reduced the amount of risk taken in almost any situation. The internet give us access to so much information that we never had. We can research and watch videos and gather opinions, and data and what not to the point we have reduced the risk that needs to be taken to accomplish something.

I am considering a small business startup, and I will admit I have spent a considerable amount of time on the internet trying to reduce the risks that need to be taken to be successful. One has to keep in mind that most of what is on the internet is opinion and sometimes poor advice, but that said, information reduces risk.

Therefore: to answer the question. I am the risk taker, but I have also found ways to reduce the risk and I am taking advantage of those risk reducers. Thanks to those of you that have helped me reduce the risk of starting a business.

oz

"LOL"

I'll only lead if you choose to follow.

What some of you appear to be overlooking is the fact that taking too much advice off o' the internet IS high-risk behavior!

I think 40-50 years ago, a guy starting out who had the smarts to seek out a mentor and the good fortune to find one was probably thought to be doing a lot of things right.

Now the mentors are fewer and farther between, but fortunately they seem to congregate here...

I never found a mentor 'til I found this place, so I did a lot of experimenting on my own and made a lot of easily-avoidable mistakes along the way to becoming a functional bowhunter. And now that I have the patience for it, I'm really interested in becoming a reasonably skilled Archer... The kind of guy whose arrows go where they're supposed to with a minimum of fuss because he knows how to tune a rig.... I'm also facing some financial constraints that I didn't have 25 years ago, so I'm very happy indeed to be able to dodge a bunch of $50 screw-ups with arrows and what-not.

And on the hunting side, I can safely say that I'm 100% self-taught.

So I don't know which type I am; mostly just the kind who is happy to help and e helped as the situation permits.

Times have an are continuing to change. People would hardly ever admit it but fear is there biggest driving force. They all have good ideas or good intentions. The fear of not being successful or the fear of what other people would think, the list could go on and on. Our society has done nothing but try to push everyone to conform to a standard. I see it in education daily and it is destroying the imagination and personal drive to be great.

Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!

If you follow and they let on the gas you get the smell.LOL

Who could ever follow Frisky you might get nipped up as Joe is? Or even worse somehow connected to Cat lady. How could that stink? LOL

Wow I really need to get a life!

A leader is something that's earned and assigned. A lot of folks may think they're leaders, may strive to be leaders, but aren't. Don't know if I'm a leader, but I do know I'm not a follower.

Neither. I retired from the US Army 15 years ago, and archery is for fun. I try to help others when they ask and I try new things when I feel like it might help my shooting. There is no "chain of command" here. That would ruin it for me. - John

I am the leader and I have three followers. People, not so much.

3 kinds of people 1)those who watch what happens 2)those that make things happen 3)those who wonder "what the hell just happened?"

While I agree with your principle thesis, I believe it is wise to shortcut the process by learning from those you trust through proven results. My entire Youtube video library was created for the sole purpose of share my experience for free. I don't know how long you've been in the NeoTrad world - post 1990, but initially folks were very hesitant to share their experiences.

This was due in large part because anyone who did not follow the "Traditional" model were decapitated and their head hung from the London bridge. A few trusted agents helped me along the way, and I decided that I would share everything for free. There is so much more behind this, but you get the idea.

I set out to learn everything I possibly could about archery. I have spent countless hours learned to shoot every style and use every aiming method possible from instinctive to face walking, point of aim to gapping and of course crawling the string.

I believe I am a better archer for having traveled that road...

Sorry thought this was Leatherwall.....its this cool thread about trad arcjery.

It's this cool website about trad archery

Years ago I was the LEADER and my little brother was the FOLLOWER. I drove all the way to Anderson Archery near Lansing MI,and little brother was with me. That's where we bought our first bows. That was in 1971, little brother was 9 and I was 24. We started bowhunting together the very next year and 45 years later we are still bowhunting together, however little brother, being 15 years younger, has become the LEADER and me the FOLLOWER.

What just happened?

Agree Dave...the search function on the LW using "keyword" can answer 95% of the questions posed here over and over, like brace height or arrow selection.

It just seems some folks need to be told or perhaps they are unfamiliar with how to do a search.

My best adventures have come from trying something new and questioning conventional wisdom when it leads to illogical conclusions.

I recently watched a video Jeffer posted about unlearning bad habits and reflected that he and I came from similar backgrounds, both growing up in Ontario without archery or fly-fishing clubs, not much in the way of gear or assistance and making our way alone thru trial and error as there were no other kindred souls.

back in the early 70's I was one of a handful of people who fly-fished the St.Mary's Rapids in the Soo. Now it's crawling with fly anglers...internet.

I started tying flies and fly fishing when I was 13 with materials from the only mail order outfit in Ontario. I went to the library and read books and taught myself how to fly fish.

Same with archery...my brother and I read books and figured out what worked and what did not. That's how we had to do it.

That continues to this day. I do like to help others out as I do realize there are followers.

But if it's to be then it's up to me!

It's still an individual sport and there are no rules. Any objectives and goals are strictly personal. We are lucky to have helpful and experienced people, but I don't think they consider themselves "leaders." FWIW, that's what turned me off about the PBS; too much hierarchy and elitism. - John

I watch and when someone does something stupid, I do not do that!

Well I ain't no "Brave Heart" but I ain't afraid to try something new if it's legal. In my time on this planet I have shot a number of different style bows, not every type of course and not because I am afraid to it's just that I haven't came across the chance to do so. I also have what is considered by some as a "bad" habit--- I tend to say what I mean.

Neither leader or follower. I am a teacher. As mentioned above about Jeffer's video "Unlearning bad habits", Jimmy Blackmon's videos on shooting. Jeffer and Jimmy Blackmon: Teachers. DANNY

I grew up on a farm. Most everything we did was trial and error. We learned by doing, testing, redoing.

We were testers and inventors. If the tool we needed wasn't made, we grabbed the welder and invented it.

I tend not to categorize people. Doesn't come natural...

Seems like when I ask for advice or help someone steps up to the plate and responds.

Sometimes folks find it hard to ask for advice or help. They'll probably get over that.

I am blessed that I learned to do many things before the Internet. Finding the information was as difficult and graifying as learning to apply it.

I also learned to do many this before I was unfortunate enough to find ou they were impossible.

With the availability of information today there is no excuse to be ignorant. Yet here we are " a generation so much dumber than its parents"

WWLD? If it's not helpful, keep my mouth shut, never stop learning, never stop listening, never quit trying new things, never discipline a horse while standing on the ground, either ride it or leave it alone, don't let age be a reason to quit anything, respect other people and their beliefs, keep color confined to a box of crayons, enjoy all aspects of Archery, make wild meat a major part of my diet, keep reminding people that Mr. Hatfield was my father, and always keep in mind that my main goal in life is to grow old enough to be a problem for my children.

I like what Mike said, I tend to make things happen, some good, some bad as I cannot stand the "establishment"!! I am not a follower unless someone wants to lead me to their best deer stand or fishing spot! :-) Shawn

Right on Larry.. I want to be just like you when I grow up.. and whether training horses..or dogs it's helpful to be at least a little smarter than the animal. That's where some people have problems.. I think. Sandy

As a general rule I only ask for advice from people who I'm sure know more than I do. That said I like to figure things out on my own and experiment. It's part of the learning process for all things in life I believe.

I had a bow doing something funky a while back when I shot broadheads from it and I couldn't figure it so I sent a PM to George and he got back to me promptly with some things I could try..I appreciated the input and his wisdom. I've read enough of George's posts over the past 10 years to know that he knows this game better than I do.

Viper wrote a great book and I've read it cover to cover and still reference it when I need to. But Tony lives out here on Long Island and I've shot with him many times. He helped me improve my shooting tremendously and we belong to the same club. I always know where I can find him if he is shooting outdoors during the summer and I need some help with my form.

These are the kinds of people I seek advice from. Still, that does not make me a follower. It's an acknowledgement that they have learned more in this area than I have and I can improve myself by gaining from their knowledge if they are willing to offer it.

I have to admit I may have tried the odd new thing that was not legal. Everything we do can be a learning experience eh.

DDave

I have to admit I may have tried the odd new thing that was not legal. Everything we do can be a learning experience eh.

DDave

Would you care to expound on that odd new thing that was not legal Dave?

I feel like we've had this conversation before. Trial and error is fine but why reinvent the wheel. Just because someone ask questions before they do something doesn't make them a follower it makes them wise. Do your research then do your legwork. What is the purpose of this message board if not to share? I can only speak for me but I have to remember that I asked the "stupid" questions before I knew they were "stupid".

Not until the statute of limitations runs out. You guys should know everything is being bugged these days. We even have hackers working for Putin here in Canada.

DDave

This is a great thread.

Learn something new every day. You can learn it from a five year old you know!

Leader or follower?

One ex marine guy I like a lot is always describing himself as alpha. But you look at a lot of his life choices and they are definitely "beta"

I agree with Jeff Durnell at the top of the thread. I don't need to be the" lead dog" although I have been that a lot of my career. Ultimately I just need to be my own dog.

X2 what Larry said!!

Deno

Just think, if it wasn't for Trump Canada there would be no incentive of the illegals moving there, God Bless Trudeau; there is a good leader.

My post came one the board before Larry's.

What he says is the recipe for a successful life, always open to new things and respectful of others.

I

"I have been struggling for a while with trying to understand people "

A noble endeavor.

"people who seem to need permission to try something new"

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

They don't see a risk in asking. I don't think any of them are asking to be ridiculed for asking questions.

I've never really thought about the whole leader/follower thing. It's never been important to me.

What about if your taking live fire you still want to lead in battle?

Ok I'm following you but not down the wrong path.LOL

Frisky has enough sense to not be a Legend on this tread.LOL

When you consider yourself a leader, every once in a while turn around to see if anyone is following.

I started this thread early in the morning. Now it is late in the evening and my thinking, due to having been trained by some great people to shun either/or thinking, is now very different.

In the words of that great Canuck, Red Green:

I am a man. I can change. If I want to.

DDave

I will just gather up what information I can and go it alone.Been plenty of failures but lots of successes too.A a short list of things I taught my self and successfully done.Archery, Horse riding ,fly fishing.surfing.arrow shaft making ,Flint knapping.There are many more things that you can learn by yourself.You may need some basic skills or athletic ability but There is no reason as to why you can't .Its just up to you.Just go for it. OSR

Pretty much just ask George or Jawge or Magera or Dire Wolf,,where is Dire Wolf b the way?

I love to read the posts by, the experimenters, the tinkerers, the "what if" guys. Those that explore the dark corners of archery's conventional wisdom. These are the guys that genuinely have something to say and contribute to moving archery into a better place. Most of the time when they come here and share their thoughts, they're trashed by the "not thought of by me " fragile ego Youtube experts

When among superiors I don't mind following. If I find myself to be the ranking officer,I don't shrink from leading either. It is the natural order of things. >>>-----> Ken

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