A few of us have been trying to crack the Howatt numbering system before they used the first number as the build year.

We figured out Brownings and Shakespeare's (crookedstix gets a great deal of credit for realizing the first letter was a month!) and now want to tackle Howatt's.

Cueman and I decided that getting pictures of a sample of numbers from four or five different models, as well as pics of the bow's riser and putting them in a spread sheet might be a good approach.

So the models we picked are the Hunter, Hi-Speed, Monterey, Diablo and Ventura. Bow's from the 50's and 60's are what we are after.

Here's an example of the pics we need.

Thanks

Pete Please post the pics and I will attempt to compile the data.

And then a picture of the riser like this.

That pic did not orient properly.

It would also be helpful to know if it has a knife edge on the belly side of the sight window.

A shot of the off side of the riser assists in seeing the knife edge.

Thanks for your help!

Peter

One more point is to advise if it has overlays on the tips along with the standard underlays. Thanks.

Beautiful bows

1964 Howatt Hunter

#HHV 2410L-62"

Knife edge

Standard wood underlay with modified tips, not sure if original.

Good luck on the project. I need some bad weather to motivate me to get back on the Hunter i.d. project.

Thanks Brad. I have not forgotten about your Hunter project.

Pete, what am I missing here? I thought it was already decided about the numbering system in the early years. The first number identified the bowyer and second number was the year.

Example was Buzz's Hunter above beginning with "24".

Maybe I just need another cup of Joe or am I late to the game?

At any rate, I applaud the efforts of you and others and really appreciate what you've done to solve the Shakespeare and Browning puzzles.

Here's a Howatt I found in an antique store near Ellensburg, WA.

Try again..

more

Crap! still upd!

last one

Eldorado diablo 47# DE25304. 58" Has tip overlays, 3M translucent glass with green overlay

Howatt Hunter 32#. HM9283. 62" Black walnut with rosewood caps Late 60 or 61 after the specs were moved to the lower limbo

No overlays on tips

Monterey 23# EDM98184 62" No tip overlays Very early 3 piece rider on lower limb, smaller than regular conquistador single piece label

Howatt Hunter 40# HHX 3075. 62" Flat belly of sight window Has tip overlays

Diablo 45#. EDV 3483. 58" No tip overlays

Howatt Hunter. 45#. HM 88989. 66" Walnut and rosewood No tip overlays

Ventura. 40#. HVX 2816. 66" Seafoam green glass back and belly Knife edge sight window Has tip overlays

54" Diablo, S/N DE49690, no overlays on the tips. Mr. Hatfield says its a 1959.

Here's mine: Hunter -- HHV 1738-62"

Knife-edge window

No tip overlays

Montery rounded sight window

Hunter rounded sight window

No pictures of overlays but standard wood overlays.

Oops No picture of the limbs on the hunter.

So Mr. Hatfield does not know?? Shawn

Howatt HI-Speed.

HST 4241L 58"

Shawn/ Scooby Doo

We're trying to figure out the correlation between the serial digits and the year.

When you see a Shakespeare serial number you can tell the month and year it was made, and the model, without looking at the decal.

Howatt Diablo 1964

#EDX 4047L, 58"

Knife edge riser.

Need your help guys. Know more of you have the older hunters, hi speeds, diablo and venturas. If you cant post pictures, how about the information on the bow in the best detail you can give us. Thanks, Kenny

TTT

Hi speed HST 4216L 58"

no knife edge

same

tip overlays

underlays

Diablo, I refinished this one as decals were shot or almost non existant. Serial number and poundage was in window. Transferred # to lower limb. Repo decal of what was there. It had a small separate decal "Diablo" like Magonboats above. DE 53055L 58"

might have missed this pic

underlays

Hunter HM 95590 62" Assume the HM stands for Hunter Mamba

no tip overlays on back white glass

underlays on belly black glass

something I noticed in this one is the edge of the sight window that is avoe your index finger. Some bows have a 45% slope to the outer 1/4 " or so. Others are rounded. Maybe a thing Larry will tell us about.

Ah yes, the Monterey that UPS broke for me. EM7(f) 973L 62"

knife edge on riser

no tip overlays

underlays

Mamba Hunter HM 43854L I stand corrected from earlier, I think HM stands for Howatt Mamba.

Upon looking at the glass on the belly and back of this bow, it appeared like the belly was woven or cross hatch and the back was smooth, now with the blown up picture, I think I can see cross hatch on the front as well, maybe a better smooter finish?

Hunter HHX 3701-62"

no knife edge

tip overlays

underlays

another Mamba Hunter Tan glass No serial number when I got it, I just refinished it again. Definite cross hatch glass front and back.

Ventura HVV 1773L-66" minty

Knife edge

Knife edge, now lets make sure everyone is talking about the same knife edge. I am referring to the back of the sight window that runs vertically up the bow versus the horizontal sight window transition to the shelf which changed from being a very tight "knife edged" line to a small radius curve after Larry made the sanding machine.

Knife edge, now lets make sure everyone is talking about the same knife edge. I am referring to the back of the sight window that runs vertically up the bow versus the horizontal sight window transition to the shelf which changed from being a very tight "knife edged" line to a small radius curve after Larry made the sanding machine.

no tip overlays

underlays

Ok, here are mine from top to bottom 1950 Mamba HiSpeed, serial HW1051, 58" 46# walnut? Green glass belly, very light brown back, knife edge imo, 1961(?) Hunter, serial # HM 65743 walnut with rosewood caps, 62" , 43# cream belly brown back no knife edge, 1958 Monterey, serial #EDM 68552, 62", 31#, rosewood lam riser, green belly, black back, no knife edge 1963 Monterey, serial # EMX373, 62", 40#, rosewood, black belly and back, no knife edge, Pics follow

Ok photos are upside down, so order is bottom to top in that photo

1961 Hunter decal

1950 Mamba Hi Speed decal

Tips

Tips again

1950 Mamba....maybe a knife edge? Hope these help guys!

Monterey EDM 68915 Maybe a refinish looking at writing

note that bevel on the window edge above index finger position

Thanks for all the pics and information...exactly what is needed. Keep them coming please. Pete

Howatt Hunter

#HHS 5262L, 62"

Bump...

I know some other people have some of these, any body else?

How about a Catalina with knife edge riser.

well here is a lefty Hunter I picked up this past summer ..... I love the green glass ......... Lonnie

Howatt Hunter, 1967, with knife=edge, has overlays & underlays

Howatt Hunter, 1967, with knife=edge, has overlays & underlays

sorry had to do the boy scout thing .... here are the rest of the pics of the lefty ......

why do people drill holes ?? check out the grain there is a cool diamond in this side of the riser

no tip overlays just underlays

opps

Howatt Hunter from two posts above from newt. Serial # HHA 7632 62". Sorry, posted pic of decal with serial # & initially it was showing - then gone???

Whats the length of that hunter RR, cant quite make it out but looks like 58" or ? Thanks

Its a 54" hunter ..... i bought it for 20 bucks at a flea market it had some issues i fixed and man does this lil thing shoot like a house on fire it is way fast shooting 1816 out of it and i love the green glass

Almost looks like they put a Hunter decal on a Hi-Speed, Lonnie...I've never seen a 54" Hunter, or a Hunter of that riser shape.

Here's another Hunter for the database; a knife-edge from the early 60's.

Lon, I don't think that 54" bow is a hunter. I am pretty sure it is a high speed with the wrong decal. Looks like the serial starts with HS. I am pretty sure they only made hunters in 66", 62" and 58". The 58" was in the early 70's for 2-3 years, 66" only in 59 or 59-60. In the very early 60's I guess the risers shape looked about the same and maybe Mrs. Pearl would get the decals wrong sometimes and not even realize it.

ya know i wondered about that i have had a few of the high speeds but i always say these bows were on a production line and we all have had bad days .......lol so this is a early 60's high speed with the wrong decal then ?? this is the one fun project bow i got for this winters blues just not sure which way i want to go with it ...... Lonnie

My Hunter (serial #1728) is very similar in appearance to Kerry's (# 1689). Question is, if the first digit is the bowyer's identifier and not the year designation, which number in the sequence would indicate that our two bows were made in the early 60's?

Backcountry, what is the entire serial number? HH something? Sometime in 1960 they stopped using the bower number and went to a 4 digit serial. This was about the time they started putting the info on the lower limb. The knife edge on your hunter stopped at the end of 62, so it has to be a pretty early hunter.

Hey Lonnie, Your high speed has me really confused. The serial starts with a 7, but it is not a 67. Those had a bubinga? center lam and the notch in the belly of the sight window. Yours is definately a pre 65, so not sure when it was made. Could be that the 7 digit is month on yours and it was the 313th made. I am familiar with the first digit 9 for the early new riser bows, just never saw a 7. Maybe it is really early in the new riser run. Could be why it is mislabeled, they just started all new bows and all were in rosewood and sort of looked alike except for length?

Kenneth (Cueman), I'll re-post a photo of the serial number. It is HHU 1738. I believe it must have been made after Howatt stopped using the first digit as the bowyer identifier. Therefore it makes sense to me that both my bow and Kerry's are '61 models.

I would agree with the Hi speed mislabeling and that they are both 61's. Don't know where that 7 comes from?

Here is what I think is a very 1960 Hunter, new riser style. I am thinking first digit is month, so August. I am guessing the high speed is July (7). Notice the conquistador label, not a ne plus ultra.

Yes backcountry, I think yours is a 61 Hunter.

I'll begin compiling the data next week.

The discussion in the last few posts is just why this needs to be done. The numbers mean something and I think the key to figuring that out is organize bows by riser design and see if there is a pattern to the serial digits and decals.

We know the line was redesigned in the early 60's and that's when the serial digits ended up on the limb. I believe that was 1961 but we'll see.

I think by 1963 the first number was the build year but that needs to be verified with a large sample.

I think we have a good start with the Hunters and Hi-Speeds so let's see what happens.

I also think the suffix digit 7 with a slash through it is a significant identifier as it is on all kinds of bows, as is the X suffix.

Even on bows with the slash 7 suffix and 7's in the serial number, the 7's in the serial number are printed without the slash.

Here's my 65 Hi Speed.

Larry mentioned when the year designation was added to the serial number. I thought he said 1962 but I could be wrong. I think, but again could be wrong, that the following numbers are sequence numbers. Somewhere in there is the bowyer. Larry's bowyer number was 8. He could clear this up for us in a minute.

Thanks Phil. Can you please post pics of the riser and tips of your Hi-Speed as well? We need them for this project.

It seems like some rosewood bows with a knife edge had a 1 at the beginning of the serial number. It could be that these were the first new style rosewood bows built in late 1961 for the 1962 sales year.

The last year of the walnut and rosewood Hunters was 1961 and they had the specs on the limb that year.

Here's the riser.

And here's the tip. Sorry for being a bit out of focus.

Mine may be too recent, as it doesn't have Yakima Washington in the logo, and doesn't have the knife edge (I think), but here are the pics of it.

Sorry if it is of the wrong era, but I would appreciate it if some of you experts could tell me a little more about it. I can't remember where I got it, but I bought it without a string and I've had it several years and have never strung or shot it.

Here's the riser.

Backside of riser

Overlays

String side

677th hunter made in 1972, Bubinga wood with 2 maples strips around a rosewood strip, I think anyway. Very good shooter. Get a string and start shooting that beauty.

Will do! Thanks for the info, grizzly.

nowheels..here's the 1972 Howatt brochure.

Got the one on the left Peter.

Thanks for the info pdiddly. Interesting thread!

Howatt Hunter 1962 no overlays knife edge

Knife edge..

Serial #

1965 Hunter. No knife edge. Overlays

Tip overlays

Serial #

Eldorado Monterey I think 1958 or 1959. These are tricky...glad to see there are others to compare

Serial number

EDM98333 Conquistador decal

El Dorado Diablo

Specs...

Overlays..I think this is a 1960

Decals

Hi-Speed Rosewood 54"

No knife edge. Specs on the limb.

HSX 1121 This bow has factory overlays. I don't have a pic of them.

Better picture of the specs...

I do have a picture of the tip overlay

Here's a Hi-Speed that belonged to crookedstix...now mine but these are his pics.

Specs on the limb..HW 6400

Whoops HW 6900 It has no overlays.

I think this is a 1961 as it's the last year of the walnut/rosewood riser and the specs are on the limbs. We shall see when I compare in the chart.

Here's a 1960? Hunter I had that now resides with crookedstix.

Specs...It has no overlays HM 66004.

This is one of the "five digit" serial numbers that needs to be compared to others.

The red decal is difficult to see on the red 3M belly glass.

Last one of the night...same as the one above but in turquoise glass...

I refinished this bow and it had a red decal on the limb. New one on the way.

Specs are on the riser...

It's a 62" Hunter...sorry.Here's the specs HM 18336

No overlays, just underlays. Rosewood is striking on this glass.

Not really part of the survey but here's a 1953 Mamba advertisement that shows an unusual Mamba.

And here is the bow!

Once again, this was Kerry's but came north to live in Canada.

Only bow I have seen of it's type and it's my birth year so special.

Here is the paper label...this is an oldie! That is the only number on the bow. The draw weight.

The overlays on the riser and tips are a different type of composite integrated into the light coloured glass.

The tips...

Last bow in my collection..a 1963 Howatt Diablo. There is another like this in this thread posted by cueman (Kenny) that also has the number beginning with three EDV 3483. It is a 58" bow.

This is ED7 3442, with the 7 being cross hatched. It is a 54" bow.

These bows were made very close to one another but the difference is the length and the suffix letter. It seems to me it is a bowyer mark.

The riser laminations are also different.

Actually they are the same except the rosewood in the middle of mine is very light...it has no tip overlays.

It has a knife edge.

So now it is time to make a spreadsheet and sort this all out. Please feel free to add pics of your Hunter, Hi-Speed, Diablo and Monterey. A pic of the riser and of the specs and if there are overlays on the tips.

Thanks to those who participated so far.

Welcome sir.

Thanks for youe efforts as well.