This post is a build along of my first Osage bow. Please join me on my journey to find the beautiful bow that surely lies beneath this wooden stave. I will update it with my progress and pictures along the way.

If you’re new and looking for a great Osage how to please check out Russell’s post below: http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/tf/lw/thread2.cfm?forum=23&threadid=232760&category=

How It All Started There is just something special about an Osage stave isn’t there? I don’t know if it was Russell’s amazing build along, Dean Torges admiration for it in “Hunting the Osage Bow”, or the beautiful bows I got to hold at Backhawk’s house, but something made me a bit speechless the first time I held my first Osage stave that arrived in the mail.

Though she didn’t say it I’m sure my wife thought I was a little crazy as I felt the piece of wood. I was amazed at the generosity of Russell, whom I have never met, who sent me the stave. He would take no money but only required the promise that I read “Hunting the Osage Bow”. A task I have since completed, and thoroughly enjoyed, but I suspect I will reread it many times over in the future before it all sinks in.

I pictured the beautiful bow that surely lies somewhere beneath that wood. I tried to remember the lessons that Blackhawk had taught me working on an elm log he had given me. I wondered if someday I would hold that bow and take aim on a deer and release that lethal blow.

My Goals Time will tell if I am able to successfully deliver the amazing bow inside that stave. However, I am in no hurry. I want to take my time and immerse myself in each stage of the process. Working with Balckhawk, reading, watching Mike’s videos (http://www.youtube.com/user/BoarriorBows), and seeing Russell’s build along have taught me a great deal and I will do my best to utilize what I have learned successfully and thoughtfully. I suspect it will be a lot of fun along the way!

Of course if I end up with a 60#er that launches arrows 200 yard and accompanies me on opening day of deer hunting, well, I’d be quite ok with that as well. ;-)

Thanks for sticking with me this far. I assure you future posts will be quit to the point. Well there’s a lot to do, we better get started!!

I took my scraper and scraped down the sides enough that I could neatly trace my target growth ring with a pencil. Then I slowly started working my way down 1 layer to the target ring. The draw knife technique took some getting used to and I could use a lot more practice but I got the job accomplished.

I exposed as much of one growth rign as I could with the draw knife and my straight scraper. There is a valley that runs down most of the back and I will need a goose neck scraper to remove that. I reapplied shalack to the back and sides until I'm able to get one of those.

Now I need to start thinking of the best center line for this bow. The stave has a bend to it as you can see. I suspect we can correct this some during heating. I'm going to get my new scraper and expose the entire back before overthinking the centerline.

Your input is appreciated! Thanks!!

Only 2 posts in and I'm hooked already. I'm looking forward to this .....and ..... PAHunter .... thanks for taking the time and effort in documenting this journey, it's much appreciated.

Phil

PaHunter, I've got a good feeling about this. Dean's book has a way of leading to the hatching of good bows through bowyers of good understanding and appreciation of the art of selfbow making. I can tell already, somehow, from just a couple of pictures and paragraphs, you'll do really well.

Now, more technical stuff.... how green is that stave? It's shape makes me want to steam the whole thing, lay it on my caul, and push it to center in just a few strategic moves, adding reflex at the same time, then lay it out along the straightened grain... instead of... Laying the bow out following the currently crooked grain, cutting it out, then trying to make corrections with a heat gun or something.

Another note... I would somehow mark the side of the stave, the right side in the third picture. Since that is the side the limbs of the bow hidden inside naturally grew towards, I would keep that factor in mind during design/layout... making it the arrow side of the bow if possible. That way, if the limbs try to return even the tiniest bit toward their original position after your heat corrections, after layout and limb shaping, even more importantly, say, after the bow is done... then they will move toward the arrow side, effectively making the bow less critical of arrow spine, not more. Try to see the bow inside the stave in your mind's eye, think ahead, and work 'with the bow', not against it.

Normally though, if the heat corrections are done properly and the thing remains aligned and stable throughout the construction and shooting-in process, it will never move back, but it's just a precaution.

I would dig out that valley with the gooseneck before steaming and correcting too... with that material gone, it may change how it clamps down on the caul, leaning one way or the other, which can change the bow's outcome a little. You wouldn't want to steam the back of the stave flat, THEN remove the valley, which may mean taking more wood off of one side of the limb than the other... which would mean your stave's back is no longer quite as 'flat' or in the same plane.

Like Jeff said, if you are right handed, I would make the limb at the top of the last picture your top limb. This will lessen the amount of bending needed and will give a more center shot bow. Looks like you have a great start. Hunting the osage bow is one of my favorite reads period, wether making bows or not, it is a great book on many levels. Good luck, and I will be folloowing along.

I should have said heat correcting, instead of bending.

Good advice, but I simply select the cleanest limb for the lower limb.

The bows I make have a shorter lower limb creating a balanced bow in hand.

I dont worry much about the alighnment at this stage. Pencil in the crown per Dean's instructions and go from there.

I use Dean's book more of a study guide after I read it a couple times.

Use bright sunlight and a sharp pencil to outline the bow. Indoors light just isn't the same.

Looking forward to following this thread.

Good luck with the build.

Russell

PS. Dont worry if the bow breaks. It's the lessons and experience that I care about.

yup...draw your center line down the crown...dont go off of where your string is in that picture...you must follow the grain and dont worry if it makes the string go off the handle for right now..that will be corrected later with heat. keep following deans advice..and reread(maybe more than once for it to sink in) each step your at each time before you go to work on it. ...or just come over here and ill peek over your shoulder...lol ;) as a hunter i like my hunting bows to be asymetrical as well..but to each his own there

take your time...its not about the destination, but the journey that gets us there

looks like Russell picked you a good stave. I love working with osage. Have fun.

Regarding the sealing of the back and ends, believe the log was cut and spit a year or more ago.

I dont think you need to do anything besides carve.

If it was mine, I wouldn't reseal anything.

However, when/if you use heat to make corrections and/or induce reflex, then get the limbs worked down until they are just about ready for floor tillering. Lot less wood to heat.

Store the stave in a nice warm area. A drying (hot box) with temps around 118 or so degrees with air movement would be ideal. That way, the wood is drying more and will be that much more ready to tiller when the time comes.

Keep those tools sharp.

Good luck, Russell

Everything you suggested makes sense. I’m realizing now just how interesting this process will be; hopefully for you at times as well. That is, you all have techniques that have clearly been very successful for you but will differ at times. Ex: steaming a stave vs. heating after layout out and reducing the bow. Or going solely with the strongest/cleanest limb for the bottom vs. taking into account the natural bend of the stave. I’m sure the key lies in better understanding the pros and cons of each technique. This is exciting!

For now I’m going to buy a goose neck shave, get the rest of the back exposed, and begin my second read of Hunting the Osage Bow. Actually I’m heading up to grandpa’s farm today to let some arrows fly and setup some hunting locations tomorrow. Two of my favorite things. ;)

@Jeff thanks! As for greenness; I believe the stave is a year old. You can faintly see 3-11 on it in the first picture.

@Russell The learning experience is much more valuable to me than the outcome. Of course, let’s keep our fingers crossed this thing sticks together to let a few arrows fly! ;-) Thank you! I'm considering making a hotbox. My cold basement is probably less than ideal for storage.

@Blackhawk You know it! What do you say we let some arrows fly and do some work next weekend?

@Phil, Bob, Gaur, very glad to have you along on this journey!

sure thing man...i was just out roving n killing stumps its so nice out today...just let me know day n time

Follow that lateral grain. Don't snap a line straight across. More in my site. Jawge http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/

Just a note... I too make all of my bows with a shorter bottom limb and try to use the clearest wood for the bottom, but if there's not much difference as far as that goes, other things weigh in... natural curve, twist, areas of or overall natural reflex or deflex, ring thickness, etc.

Cleanest wood on the bottom for me too. Jawge

This is gonna be awesome!! I read Russell's buildalong and was amazed. But he had to deal with knots and those scary cracking sounds. This stave looks to have a much smoother back. Cant wait to see more!

Waiting for my goose neck scraper to come in the mail gave me time to practice doing a proper finish on an elm bow I’m finishing up. I worked progressively finer sand paper, burnished, and am currently doing tru-oil and steel wool treatments. These are lessons that will surely pay off when it’s time to finish this Osage. I also constructed a tiller tree which I know from using Blackhawk’s, will help tremendously! Once of these days I just may end up with a ½ way respectable work area. :)

My scrapers arrived! And just a few thousand scrapes revealed just how deep the valley on the bow is. This piece of wood certainly has some character underneath. Not sure if that’s good or bad thing yet; but it looks pretty cool at any rate.

Getting sea sick yet?

Drawing a centerline is going to be interesting. The stave sort of has 2 crowns which both run close to the sides. Hmm…

The other side only has a very slight valley which is more of a flat spot. Let me know what you think! I'll upload a pic once I make a decision and pencil in the outline. Big decision time!! *holding breath*

Thanks for the input all! George I have read most of your site and the bow layout advice makes sense. Not sure how to do it on this stave yet but in concept it makes perfect sense. :) Thanks!!

Watching intently. Got an osage stave roughed out for floor tiller from a couple of years ago. It was too wet to finish at the time and then I went to Oz. Will be working on it as soon as my work situation is a bit firmer. Good luck!

That's looking good,now just draw the center line following the grain and then lay out the bow like any other,I would worry about the straighting and line up after it is floor tillered.It is easy to do then with dry heat or steam. Nice looking piece of wood. Pappy

Here's what I would do (you can follow Pappy’s advice too):

Measure from floor to tip of your nose. That's how long the bow would be.

Measure this distance starting at the better end of the stave. This would eliminate maximum amount of the wavy ring end.

Did you cut both ends with a very thin slice to show the rings in a clean view? Can you work down one more ring for a cleaner ring?

Where's the knots and pins I sent you?! lol...nothing like clean Osage to cut your teeth on.

Keep posting pics. We're all eager to see the progress.

Russell

Rob...id def make that a crowned belly as per how dean does his because of the concave back.

If you look at that last picture, PA, you can see those grain lines running tip to tip. Those are the lines you want to follow. Draw that center line following them right up the stave. You seem to have done a very nice job on that ring chasing. The choice of a goose scraper is excellent. Any other tool in that trough would have violated rings. Jawge

Didnt some guy make a ton of money off of a limb design like that? Nature already gave it to you. Looking good.

Bob, are you talking about that concave belly design?

Great advice to date. You will find some very different opinions and techniques on making bows. Much like making arrows. Listen to it all and see what works best for you over time.

I agree with Jawge and pappy on the layout of this one. I have made an Osage selfbow with a concave back such as that. I did (and would again) go to the center point of the stave, from there mark the middle of the width, then follow that grain out to each end. Lay out your bow from that line. Leaving a bit of extra wood will help you when you get to heat bending.

I also agree with Russell that if you have enough thickness, and you want the learning experience of chasing another ring, I would work down one more.

Often times I think a lot of extra hours and effort are spent to improve a bow 1-3 % in performance or longevity. It truely depends on what your preference is.

You did a fantastic job chasing that ring! That and tillering are the two most important factors.

Chris

Pilgrim, yes that is what I was talking about. Quess that didnt come across very well in my post, thanks for catching it.

Looking good. Blackhawk looked over my shoulder as I made my Osage bow last week and taught me alot. I am sure I will still be picking his brain LOL. I just got done setting up my own tiller station. And ordered a few tools that I needed. Good luck with the buildalong. I will be watching.

Thanks for all the input all! It all makes perfect sense. It seems the immediate question is wether to chase another ring. The next ring is not perfect but better as you can see in this new photo. The rings all look good on the other side. I'm not really sure if the effort would make it 1-3% better or potentially much more. If the strength gain is very minimal I would not mind keeping the more unique looking concave back. However if the strength gain is potentially subtantial I'm all for it. I'm not making any rash decisions. I'll chew on this a bit.

To chase or not to chase that is the question...

To me, a flagrant innexperienced dude who just read "hunting the osage" myself. That next ring looks thickerand a little better but still charactery. Just looks like a better ring to me.

I agree that for the back of the bow, the next growth ring down looks better.

I am amazed that that crooked as a dog's leg along the back is considered great wood for a self bow of any consequence..:) Looking at the string line, you are going from one far side to the other and maybe just enuf wood for the working limbs in between..unless you subject the reduced wood to torture and heat..:( HOW LONG IS THAT STAVE?

But I'm picky..:)..Have at it, young man ..and keep us posted..:)Jim

Wish I knew the back looked like that. I would have sent you a different stave.

Good challenge to cut your teeth.

Russell

Russell, respectfully,

I surmise that you were the gentleman who possibly selected and cut and rendered that osage log into the stave that PA Archer is working on..Tho it may be a bit 'green' after less than a year in the stave..it'll make a bow..of sorts.

I'm happy someone is still cutting osage bow wood..and helping others.Thank you.

One thing I learned about logs and staves and billets after learning how to assess the tree in the first place and get it on the ground is this:

Wedges and axes and hatchets have their place in the woodlot...or for the bowyer.

BUT, for osage, stripping the bark soon on and then SAWING the lines for the staves and billets with a SkilSaw and THEN using plastic wedges to rive out the staves yields many more great straight staves than the vagaries of using the splitting maul or wedges..

The log is gonna be twisted or corkscrewed regardless IF one cannot read a standing tree..

Runoff six inches left or right is no big deal until one tries to take such a split out stave and make something more than a conversation piece from the wood...Lateral vagaries of growth make little or no difference in a sawn stave or billet pair.

I dislike heat straightening-torturing wood to make it suitable for a bow..Just not natural..and the wood will fight you all the way even when you think you have won..Jim

In the osage land I come from, that is a great stave, and with care(that you are already demonstrating), you will end up with a fine bow.

If you have wood to spare, I "wood" chase the next ring.

I also think you should do the next ring. Takes some time but I think it would be worth it. It will put more solid wood on the backing as that pith is kinda thick between the rings.

The next ring down is better but the one you are on looks ok. That stave will have to be heat corrected to get the string on the handle. Have you done that yet? I would move the end in the background to the right and the other end to the left. Jawge

I am REAL curious if you balance those humps if it would balance the tension like those split limb wheelie bows! It would make a very cool looking bow for sure. The only reason I mentioned the next ring is because the current ring is mighty thin on the left side. I see you almost doubling the good wood in some spots a ring down.

That Russell is a fine man. He made my daughter a bow that lights up her face EVERY time she holds it. He offered me a stave and I declined because I doubted my my abilities to do it justice. Heck even dire said one time he'd scare up a yew if i wouldn't make it a girlie bow.

Once I held that osage bow Russell made, I had to get some. Happy to say I have been covered in yellow dust for three weeks straight.

BTW Good Lord that is pretty wood! I am taking a little Osage to make a Cross for my Pastor. Gonna tell her it is Sin wood, it darkens over time but if you give it a little ministry and sand it a bit it shines like gold again.

Flingsum

BRINGS BACK GOOD MEMORIES FOR ME. I MADE MY FIRST OSAGE SELF BOW ABOUT 20 YEARS AGO AND I CAN STILL SMELL THAT GOOD YELLOW DUST EVEN TODAY. THE OTHER DAY I OPENED AN OLD TRUNK AND FOUND MY DRAW KNIFE AND FILES WAITING FOR ME LIKE AN OLD GOOD FRIEND. I JUST RECIEVED MY NEW HOWARD HILL WESLEY SPECIAL IN THE MAIL AND HAVE BEEN HAVING A BALL SHOOTIN EVERY EVENING AFTER WORK. UNFORTUNATELY, I BROKE MY LEFT ANKLE IN A SOCCER MATCH LAST NIGHT ! I'M PRETTY BUMMED, SIX WEEKS IN A CAST AND CRUTCHES. HOWEVER, YOUR POST HAS INSPIRED ME TO SPEND THIS TIME ON A GOOD PIECE OF OSAGE AND MAKE SOME NEW MEMORIES..NOTHIN LIKE A SELF BOW, VENISON IS NEVER SWEETER THAN TAKEN WITH A SELF BOW....GOOD LUCK ON YOUR JOURNEY, I;LL BE WATCHIN.

The last bow I built had a concave back on one limb about half it's length. Gary Davis told me it will "rail" on the high ridges and likely fail. He told me to fill the valley with sinew and you will have no trouble. He was right.

Leave it, the stave is too thin already/

In life I believe one should make decisions and not look back. I don’t see why bowyering should be any different. Blackhawk and I contemplated all the ifs. The next ring down looked thick. The ring below that looked perfect. But after much contemplation, some careful measuring, and some of my wife’s brownies, we decided the current ring would work if we used one of the ridges on the side as the center. The decision was made and the pencil came out.

We also discussed if we would use the full length of the log and make a centered bow to make adjustments later. This is the formula that I have taken with my previous 5 bows and the extra security was at times needed. However after due consideration I decided to make this bow with intent, for better or worse. I chose to reduce the 68 inches to my nose height of 66. I also chose to make the limb with the knot the top limb and to make it 1.5 inches longer than the bottom. I had a plan and to it I will stick!

I put on my leather gloves, grabbed an axe, and wood began to fall. Perhaps I’m weird but there is something almost spiritual about carving wood in this primitive way. It’s as though the shavings fall in slow motion. Though before you know it there is an impressive pile of them on the floor and your stave looks surprisingly like the bow that you always knew it would become. Yes, I’m getting ahead of myself but that’s half the fun isn’t it?

Of course some bending will be needed once I remove some more wood.

I'm all about old school! ;-)

Brave move with the hatchet but I guess its something you wont learn unless you try it. Great stuff.

From the end the 4th pic shows a good layout. Looks like that one is the one you followed. If you were to lay it out like the 3rd from the end she may become a tomato stake. I use a hatchet too. No bandsaw. We wrote the book on old school. :) Jawge

hmmmm???...that shop n tools look familiar but i cant seem to place it? ;)

glad there was a phat 3" width on that stave to move the centerline over onto the ridge on the left. no more ring chasing required.

Thanks for all the input up to this point everyone!!
@charlie Yep I've done it on two before. I find the hatchet fun. I stop a bit shy of my lines and switch to the draw knife. I'm lettin my hand heal up a bit first.
@George right on!
@blackhawk is that a future BOM I see sitting on the chair behind me? hmm...

Now I'm going to work on arrows for a bit until I get all the feeling back in my right hand. ;-)

how to see it bend soon,, best ,, B

Hatchets always seem to make a better bow.....

I gave my hand a much needed break from making bows started working on some bamboo arrows. An activity that was even more fun than I expected and my daughter likes to help too. She only broke 1 and Daddy broke 5 so I think she is doing pretty good. :)

However the Osage stave has been leaning against my wall and persistently whispering to me the entire time. So tonight I gave in and decided to spend some time with my yellowish orange friend.

As I build a relationship with my tools it doesn't seem right to pick favorites. But I will say I thoroughly enjoy working with the draw knife. For some reason when I picture a bowyer I picture him using a draw knife as curled shavings float to the floor. So I decided to do the next round of wood reduction with one. First I brought in both sides to just outside the lines I have drawn.

Next I free handed a line a little less than an inch down to get some mass off the limbs. Next time I'll bring those lines down considerably to prepare the stave for floor tillering. My goal will be a rounded back as described in Dean's book.

Now it's time for the stave and me to get some rest. Next time I will continue to use the draw knife to bring the wood down enough to get some bend with a rounded back and begin floor tillering. I'll have to decide how far to take it prior to heat treating; a task I hope Blackhawk is available to help supervise. Hopefully this time I dont even scorch any fingers. ;-)

It does seem right, PA, to use you favorite tools. My favorite tool is the draw knife I inherited from Dad. It must be 100 years old and I keep it sharp, really sharp. That knife deserves better than to be dull. If that tool could talk...Jawge

I love to see you immersing yourself in the old ways. Handmade bows and arrows just seem to go together. Jawge

Another day and more cips fell. Perhaps I risk providing TMI with daily postings but my hunch is that conveying my tempo is important. Both so that the many of you more advanced than I can cretique my approach and that I can convey my pace to first timers (though I'm not far past you). :)
Last time I remove large chuncks of wood to have a more managable stiff stave. This time my goal was to aproach "stalk" my final bow dimensions and tiptoe toward some bend in the stave. Instead of 3/4 inch my new lines were 3/8 inch and I took off wood in a somewhat systematic way producing a rounded bely.

Oops, there's my new pic!

Free handing my 3/8 inch line. It's really not hard when you get the hang of it. Thoug my hands were mighty shaky on my first approach after Blackhawk taught me the technique. Just relax and let your hand glide across the wood. No problem!

First I shave down the sides to the line producing a nice point in the center.

Then I shave down the center and produce a hexagon. I kept following this two step routine until I produced the slightest bend in the limb.

When done the stave was still incredibly stiff but suggested the slightest movement in each side. Next time I'll continue this approach until I get into a reasonable floor tillering state; where there is a few inches of bend in each limb. Currently the fades are much harder to remove wood from than the limbs. I'm not sure if it's the quanity of wood, the angel, or just a change in density that produces this. no matter I will take my time and get them where they need to be. One more session with my draw knife and then on to finer tools. Please let me know if you have any suggestions, they are very welcome!

Thanks!
Rob

PA, it may be the direction you are going. Go back and read or check Russel's post. I remember he was very particular about direction to go at the fades.

riser is looking really long but you probably already know that.

I got a new scrapper from a friend today in the mail and looking forward to trying it out soon.

Easy to remove wood, a bit hard to add.

Extra material is a plus.

Working the limb into the fades and into the handle can be achieved with a drawknife for the rough parts. Work from the handle into the limbs with careful cuts of the knife. A sharp knife.

Then a wrasp working from the limb up into the fades and handle. Not the other way. This prevents the riple effect as you pass over the spring and summer growth rings.

Looking real good PA.

Russell

@Flingsum Oh ya I keep that post open on another browser tab and check it regurally. :) Wish I had the hot box Russell and Dean talk of but that's on my to do list. One of those scales would be useful also. One new toy at a time.
@Gaur I find myself using my scraper a lot. And now I have 3 new ones to play with! Have fun with it. Keep reminding myself, long strokes, long strokes...
@Russell That sounds like a plan. it makes sense that the angle causes the draw knife to skip over the rings. I don't have a good knife yet but I enjoy using my rasps so I'll cut over to those soon and work limb to fade.
Thanks!!

Though I'm triming the fades, I'm keeping a good amount of wood by the handle until I decide on a handle design. I'm happy with how my elm handle turned out but it was a good bit larger than needed. I'm getting ahead of myself but just wanted to let you know why the handle may still have a large block of wood on it for a bit. I'd prefer to make a smaller handle this time more like what I've seen most of you do. Some of the ones Black Hawk has done felt really good in my hand. I'll have to take a closer look. Then I'll have to make an arrow rest decision. But now I am definitely getting ahead of myself. It's hard not to try to picture the finished bow. :) Though I'm certinally in no hurry here; one task at a time...

Looking good, PA. Jawge

You are not getting ahead of yourself, if you are at the floor tillering stage bring your riser and fades to their intended length now. You can shape them any way you want later. I agree with gaur, the riser looks long at this point, decreasing the amount of wood available to work.

Excellent thread PAHunter ...really enjoying reading this.. Thanks

PA, I think that is a good idea. I almost always leave the handle full width until full draw. That way I can shape the handle accordingly to better track the string. Jawge

It's the weekend!! And that means time to get to work, the fun kind! I mapped out some aread of wood to remove around the fades and worked my rasps in an upward (toward the handle motion). Works great! But you already knew that Russell. ;-)

Here you can see the measurements that I reduced to for now. My next steps is to get the stave to a floor tillering state. Before I begin that should I remove a little more wood from the fades? That is, should I get it low enough that I can expect to see some bend in the fades during floor tillering?
Thanks!

looking good . I roughed out a stave today.man are my arms sore.

My current goal is to remove enough wood that I can begin to floor tiller the stave. That is, get a few inches of bend in each limb. I try to visualize the finished product and judge which areas need more or less wood removal. Any area that gets close to the finished product I am careful with. A violation of the finished product is a big offense. I use long stroks when possible and tools that remove as much as possible safely. For me that meant the Stanley Sureform at first for several passes, following the faceted (rounded) design. Then I followed up with a mid level rasp over the same areas to smooth things out. I'm now getting an inch or two of bend in the limbs and it's time to start identifying flat spots and hinges.

At first glance it appears the inner (closer to the handle) limbs are not bending much. Next I'll take 20 passes with the rasp at the top along the sides, 45 degrees, and top. Then 20 passes the same angles along the entire limbs. As soon as I experience more than minor bend increases I'll switch to a shave. Or if I hit 3 inches of bend in either limb I'll switch to the shave. My goal is to get increasingly more cautious. I can already tell that it takes a good deal less Osage to hold strong tension than it did hickory, oak, or elm. I love this part!! :)

Question What are the typical widths of your finished Osage bows at fades, mid limb, and tips? I'm trying to judge how much to take from the belly before narrowing the sides. Thanks!

PH,

That's a loaded question...sort of asking how much energy is required to move a truck 55 mph?

It all depends on the design and wood. Not all Osage is created equally.

Are you making the handle 5" long or 4?

Looking good so far...the best is yet to come.

Russell

Looks like your ready to start some serious bending now, your handle area looks much better. Try a bit of floor tillering in front of a full lenght mirror, helps me at least.

Looking good! Definately better than my first Osage.

We can only see the one limb there. Is the string track good or do you need to correct that limb? I suspect it is only that limb. In which case I would heat correct it, let it rest a day or so, then begin tillering.

Chris

@Russell thanks man! I want a 4'' handle; my pencil must have gotten away from me on those lines I freehanded. :) I know I'm just judging if I should take more from the belly or sides at this point. You mentioned to take from the belly to tiller and the sides to reduce weight I believe. Just trying to find a balance and not make the bow to narrow on the back or too flat.
@Bob good deal! I will try the mirror trick.
@Chris thank you! No the string tracks pretty far off to one side. I've looked at it a good bit and there may be 3 spots that need to be bent to get it straight. I'm going to get a bit more of a tiller going and then we can climb that mountain. ;-) Lots of options for heating and shaping...

Floor Tillering
I've put away the draw knife and sureform and I'm working my rasp. My goal is to get a few inches of bend in each limb as evenly as possible. To do this I put the ends on the ground and apply pressure above the handle producing some bend. Unfortunately I don't yet have a full length mirror but I do look from both sides on each end of the bow.
I mark any areas that have Knots with a K and hinges (too much bend) with an H. Last I mark the flat spot or non bending areas with lines that note where I should take off from. I also like to write the number of strokes I plan on doing. So I may hit one flat spot with 15 passes of the rasp and another with 40 depending on the amount of wood that needs removed. I try to keep doing a roughly even number of strokes on each limb while they are about even mass/bend.
I'll just repeat this process and gradually reduce the amount of strokes per check as the bend increases. Once I get a few inches of bend I'll switch to a scraper and shelf the rasp until it's time to rough out the handle.

I mark the areas I want to remove wood from. As I remove wood I watch the lines disappear to ensure my passes are even.

Top limb side one

Top limb side 2

Bottom limb side 1

Bottom limb side 2

It appears to me that most of the bend in both limbs is about 2/3 of the way down toward the tips. To put it another way the inner, thicker, limbs are not bending much. I've done 4 passes on these thus far and I'll continue unil I see seme more bend in the upper limb. I won't be using the rasp very much longer.
I still have lots of mud on my shoes from digging a huge ditch this morning. Didn't find and ancient artifacts. ;)
How quickly do you typically go to a scarper? I'm guessing I'll try something like this:
1) Draw knife to rough it out to an almost bending state
2) Stanley sureform until I get some bend maybe 1 inch
3) Rasp until I get 3-4 inches of bend
4) Scraper most of the rest of the way through tiller
5) Sandpaper - dunno yet, maybe the last few inches to max draw

PAHunter,

You really are doing great on this bow. You're waaaaaaaay more methodical than I am. Often times I just kind of "wing it" on some things. I think I just heard some gasps.LOL

Anyhow, I just brought back an older thread of mine titled "Chasing ring help". This is to show you that you're to a much better start than I was. In my defense though the stave I had to work with was "C" grade.

I look forward to seeing your finished bow!

Chris

PH...Your making me proud.

Russell

so far so good...get her loosened up some more for tomorrow morn so we can heat her up and make some corrections. i mean YOU..lol...im just gonna stand there n watch

Tillering with the Scraper
On to stage 4 and tillering with the scraper. First I used the scraper with several long strokes to remove the tool marks. Boy it's fun to run the scraper and watch the wood smooth out and shine up! I work it in exactly the same sysematic way I did the rasp.

Once I get a few inches of bend I put my oversized string on with leather cups for viewing on the tiller tree.

I continue to follow the same pattern of identifying hinges and flat areas. I typically draw pencil marks where I want to remove wood and jot down a number of strokes I wish to perform. If one limb is more still I jot down a number of full limb strokes to do as well to match the limbs up.

Bow at rest side 1

Bow flexed side 1

Bow at rest side 2 - always examine from both sides

Bow flexed side 2

Lessons from the Blackhawk School of Boyering 1) Never pull the bow beyond where you see a correction is needed
2) Never pull the bow beyond your target draw weight (right now I'm thinking 55 is my target)
3) Don't keep the bow flexed any longer than needed
4) Don't leave the bow braced beyond 18 inches for any length of time

Ok time for me to get some sleep, I have a lesson in bow heating/shaping with Blackhawk soon. I'll take lots of pics!

BTW I'm seeing that one limb has some reflex at rest and one has a little deflex. The one with deflex is bending a bit more. I worked the inner limbs on both sides to get some bend there and reduce the over bending that was occuring during floor tillering. We'll revaluate after heating but my strat given the appearence above would be to first reduce the slightly stiffer limb (the one wiht deflex) a bit with full length strokes. Let me know what you think!

correction - I'd reduce the stiff limb (the one with reflex at rest). Mostly full length strokes and perhaps a few extra on the inner limb.

Turnin Up the Heat
Wow what a day! Today I headed to Blackhawk's house to heat and bend some wood! Sure Chris is well known on here but did you know there is a whole town named after him? ;-)

My day started out by seeing my sewer backed up and my basement partially flooded, yea... But down the street from my house someone hit a gobbler last night so I tossed it in the back and used the feathers on my new arrows while we waited for the wood to cool.

That's chewed sinew used for the end wraps btw. ;-) The string tracked approximately 1.5 inches off center line at the handle to begin. We decided to heat the handle and try to get some bend in the limbs and bring the string to center. If that was not enough we would heat and bend the limbs as needed. First I had to remove some wood from the handle so we could heat it through. And yes I tried out the power tool for the first time in the intrest of time. I could rasp all day at home but Chris was doing me a favor here, though I'm sure he would have waited if I asked.

Next we braced the handle on 2x4s and put ultimately 2 clamps on it.

I coated it with Olive Oil and began to apply heat with the gun.

After 1 hour of heating and 2 of cooling while we shot and made arrows it was done. The bend had stayed and the string tracked just to the right of center, perfect for a right hander like me!

Heating the handle worked out well. We could have done the limbs instead but much more bend would have been needed. The handle bend also kept some cool character bend in the limbs. Next I will continue to tiller the stave to about 18 inches before we add some more heat to induce some reflex in the limbs.

LMAO...;)....thats funny poop with the golf course pic..good one

after we got it heated up we switched to the 4" C clamps for the bend...that handle was 1 3/8" thick and it bent with dry heat like a charm. came out perfect rob...good job.

YUP...another fine fun filled day at blackhawks shop with pahunter,hunterbob,and hdrider.

I had another great time at Blackhawks place today. And when you go there you always learn something new.I was impressed on how much PAHunter got that handle to move.And his arrows looked great. I believe everything is named after Blackhawk in that area.

looking good. A day hanging out making bows and shooting arrows with my guys is always a good day.

Blackhawk.thanks for letting me hang out today.I learned some things today just talking and watching pahunter work on his bow.can't wait to start my stave. I see I have a lot more to learn .seen a lot of wicked looking osage bows today.thanks again .ed

Thanks Ed....ur welcome.

And glad ya leraned something Bob

Good buildalong, I have to believe a lot of guys who have been thinking of building a self bow are getting much closer to actualy starting one after following threads like these.

Believe it badger. i am mighty close to starting one here. Gotta figure out how to find the stave in the plank I have.

Thanks for the positive feedback guys!
I had a blast at Chris's place as usual. It's nice when 3 of us are there so I don't feel like I'm bombarding him with questions alone. ;-) I was listening intently as you guys asked away.

@badger thanks man! This build along is a great learning experience for me but I really hope some other new guys run into it and realize that if I can do it, they can too!

Stalking Tillering
From now until we are almost done I will be using my scraper exclusively. Getting a perfect bend and then pullin back another inch. Always watching the draw weight to ensure that I don't draw over the target weight and that I am on track to hit the target weight. I decided to track my tillering in a spreadsheet. Yes this shows just how anal I am but I think it will be interesting and informative as well. The image shows what got me to a 15 inch draw.

Here are descriptions of the columns:
Draw Length: The max length I am currently drawing it too on the tiller tree or tiller stick
Draw Weigth: I measure the draw weight at that length
Estimated Draw Weight: I estimate the final draw weight at my draw length of 28 by taking the current draw weight * 2.5 * (28- current draw length). Or to put it another way add 2.5 per draw inch remaining
Tip: amount of passes of the shave on the this area of the bow
Mid: amount of passes of the shave on the this area of the bow
Inner: amount of passes of the shave on the this area of the bow
Inner: amount of passes of the shave on the this area of the bow
Mid: amount of passes of the shave on the this area of the bow
Tip: amount of passes of the shave on the this area of the bow

Here's an example: If it says Tip 20, Mid 40, Inner 60; I did 20 full limb passes, 20 more over mid limb and inner, and 20 on inner only. Hopefully you guys are as nerdy as I and I'm making some sense. :)

I'm using my tiller tree from both sides (bow both ways) and my tiller stick. While my bow is on the tiller stick I run a wooden block along it and look for hinges and flat spots. Here is an examle of a flat spot. I mark both with pencil and mark the amount of passes I plan to do. This will decrease over time as I approach my estimated target draw weight.

Example of a slight hinge

I constantly check the draw weight to ensure I'm on track and have room to spare to my target of 55. I also shoot for my target at 1'' short of my target draw length. So I'm aiming for 55#@27. You can always take more off.

On trick Blackhawk showed me that is incredibly useful is using a computer program, like Paint, to draw a straight line from tip to tip. It makes issues stand out much more.

Now I see 2 main issues I'm trying to resolve. But before I say what they are let me know what you think? What would you do on the next round of shaving? :)

Correction:
Estimated Draw Weight = current draw weight + (2.5 * (28- current draw length))

Tillering to 17 inches
Here is an updated chart with my progress to a 17 inch draw. It was far too hard to let that stave waiting to be tillered sit downstairs unattended. :) Keep in mind I'm tracking tip, middle, and inner in this chart to convey a general conception of the tempo of the tillering. The actual removal is done to flat spots and not to any premeasured "middle" section. As much as we may want it to be this stuff just isn't that percise. :)

@ 17 inches

@ 17 - the other side

Let me know what you think! All suggestions are very welcome. I see there are some patterns in my chart and exceptions where the light just caught the limb in a different way. haha You can see the estimated draw weight dropping. That's incentive to "get it right" before it gets too low. And to slow down. We will heat the limbs to get some reflex once I get the tiller to 18 inches which will add some draw weight back as well. I'm very happy with my progress today and now it's time for some deserved sleep. Good night!

Think you need to verify the wood is dry enough to continue the tillering. The moisture content is most likely too high at this point.

Did you monitor to the weight for a couple weeks while keeping it in a very warm environment?

Lower handle/fade looks larger than the upper. Brace tiller looks 1/4-3/8" greater on upper limb.

I'd cut some nocks and string to see how the string tracks. Increase brace height to about 4-5"

Once the bow is braced, then mark each limb just past the fades and use this mark to measure all future brace measurements for even to positive tiller at brace.

Lower limb should be a bit stiffer than upper.

Looking real good so far.

Russell

Bottom limb is stiffer than top limb. Both need to have the bending start at the end of the fades. Jawge

@George Yes I actually got a few of the later lines reversed in my chart thanks to a few beers and me forgetting right and left. ;) That's exactly what I'm seeing as well as a tiny hinge in the top limb 2/3 of the way out. The weird thing about the lower limb is that it is smaller than the upper (less mass). I keep thinking my eyes must be deceiving me. It is slightly concave on the back which may have soemthing to do with the extra strength. At any rate I would most likely take some strokes off the bottom only on the next round with some extra towards the fade.

@Russell I glad you brought up mositure! I don't have a scale or hotbox yet. Is there a way to judge moisture without them? I was looking for a good build along for a hot box. Does one exist? I'm a little challenged when it comes to building things besides bows from wood and completely inexperienced with wiring. I'd like to creat one. Right now I don't really have any warm place to store the bow unless my truck heats up. I have read Dean's instructions but I'm looking for something a bit more detailed on the wiring part at least.

Lower fade looks larger: It's not really, I positioned the bow a bit off center so that where I'm pulling is a bit closer to where the arrow will be. Do you center the bow when tillering?

nocks: Ya we are getting around that point. Because we decided to stop at 18 to put in some reflex I was considering delaying the nocks until after so I can ask you guys some questions. Your nocks on your build along look sweet btw! I don't know how you get em so smooth.

Brace tiller: Yep it's overly positive a bit, but I suspect it's a bit less than the previous 2 pics. taking a bit more off the lower limb should even that up nicely. I usually shoot for a 3/16ish positive tiller. Does that change at all now that my lower limb is a little longer than the upper?

Thanks, so far so good. Not sure if it's scarry or exciting watching the draw weight drop and my window to "fix" the bow closing. I don't know how you guys put out perfect tillers every time. Though I expect what looks perfect to me you probably see some flaws in. :)

I'm not going to do much more scraping before shelfing it until we put reflex in and get some judgement of moisture.

BTW here is the correct chart from last time. I got my top and bottom mixed up on 2 lines. I also put in my proposed next round of scrapes.

I dont get to worried about weight until I get the nocks cut and low brace. But, you need to learn the weight via pulling with the long string and floor tillering.

Regarding the hotbox, Dean has it covered in the book. Keep it simple. A couple lightbulbs and a thermometer.

Buy a cheap digital scale on ebay. Less than $20

Russell

Also, Sam at poorfolkbows.com has a hot box tutorial. easy stuff!

Thanks for the info guys. I ordered a digital scale off ebay for $6 that does 1g-5000g. I'll look into hot boxes and make one eventually. For now I'll toss it in my truck on hot days. it does spring back quickly after it's on the tiller stick so that's a good sign.

Got the tiller to 18 inches and now I'm going to pause to figure out a few things. I may also build a form that can be used to add reflex. The yellow rows where done this last go around.

Thats looking good rob...your def ready for brace. If your going to add reflex then nows the time. If you do then youll have to take some full length same number scrape off each limb(prob 50) after inducing reflex. And then put the leather cup long string on it and exercise it(loosen her back up), and recheck your bend and weight to make sure your still good. If so then go brace. Then its not too many scrapes to the finish line. Your doing good.

coming along nicely;-)

I apologize for the delay but I was debating adding reflex or not. The bow has not really tanken set intillering to 18 inches. However I decided to heat and add reflex for the experience if nothing else.

Tillering for Reflex
First I setup up 2 2x4s below the handle to raise the bow 3 inches. Then I clamped down the ends.

Next I coated the entire bow generously with olive oil to prevent excessive burning.

Then I worked the heat gun down both limbs. I primarially held it in one spot over the belly until it got brown but not black. I'd move it a little around the bow but 90% of the time I was aiming directly down. Once the back became hot to touch I moved on down an inch or so. Each limb took a little less than an hour. The heat gun was about 4 or 5 inches up on average.

I started on the right limb near the handle and worked my way down and then did the left. As I suspected the area I started in ended up with more bend. Next time I may do the inner limb on both sides, then middle, then outter. That may result in a more even tiller. Please let me know what has worked for you. thanks!

Holy cow! It kept pretty much all of the reflex! Osage is some crazy stuff. Maybe I overdid it a bit. :) I let it cool for 90 minutes before removing the clamps. I'm sure I'll lose some of that during final tillering but there is a lot to lose. Maybe I'll just do 2 inches next time. wow!

Excellent buildalong, PaHunter.

Just for your information, when making corrections with the heat gun, there needn't be any discoloration of the wood, and you don't need to put any oil on it. I've done hundreds of corrections without oil... not one single issue.

If you're scorching the wood, you're holding the gun in one place too long. When my heat corrections are done, even severe ones, there is no change in the color of the wood. Keep the gun moving and heat all four sides. My gun never stops moving. Though you're always moving, be patient and allow the heat to sink in. Wood is not a good conductor, so it takes a little time to travel through. Heating all four sides heats the wood evenly, allows it to penetrate from all angles, which speeds the process a little.

Don't overdo it. Keep checking the heat of the stave with your hand. It should be just hot enough that you can't hold on to it with your hand. Heating an entire limb this way takes some doing, but it can be done, especially when the limb is reduced as much as yours is... it doesn't take too long. Hope this helps.

Great thread!

Building a caul to clamp your bow to will maintain even and predictable reflex. I second the color change advice when bending wood, heat tempering is where you want to see the color change.

@Jeff Thanks man! I've read of doing it the way you described as well. Can you please provide a bit more detail on the process? How quickly do you move the gun? How much limb do you cover at once? If you have a good link please share. Thanks again!
@Bob This week I had the money for a heat gun OR the money for wood for a caul. :) I decided to build the caul as a future project. thanks!

The 3 inches of reflex the heat added addet an incredible amount of draw weight. Here are the results after several rounds of tillering with the scraper.

It took all the scrapes above to get the bow back to a decent looking tiller as you see here. Now we can progress nice and easy to my target draw weight of 55+ pounds.

Here's the full tiller chart.

I'll continue the tiller until I reach about 18 inches where I'll string the bow. If you are adding overlyas do you typically do it at this point?

Yeah..slap some overlays on

45@16

49@18 Estimated draw weight at 28 is 74 so lots of room to spare. Now I'm gonna decide if I want to do overlays and string it up. A bow is about to be born! ;-)

Overlays
I roughed out some overlays. Still have to decided 100% that I'm going to use them but I have the option. However I dediced to cut knocks and string the bow first to see where the string lies.

First I drew a line 3/4 of an inch down from the tips on the back of the bow and then I drew lines on the sides at about a 45 degree angle.

Then I use a file to cut along the sides. I really suck at lineing these things up. :)

The Problem!
When I braced the bow at an inch or two the string lines up very far to the right (the bad way for a right hand shooter). It's a good inch too far that way. I don't think trimming the handle and ends alone will sufficiently bring it back to center. I'm wondering if I need to do a little bending. I could possibly straighten the severe bend in the top limb by an inch and correct the string path. Before I do anything I try to brace it higher to verify the problem still exists.

Please let me know what you think!!

Suggest you use a couple weights on a strand of FF sting material.

There's often several sessions of heating and bending to get the static string and limbs alighned the way I want.

I like getting the masses alighned. Some folks dont. Personal choice.

It's an easy fix.

Your doing well. Keep the heat gun moving. Leave it still for a few seconds, then the browning occurs.

Russell

Primal Wood Bending
Ok I setup blocks and rulers to systematically induce the correct amount of bend in the limb. Then I changed my mind. I decided to go a bit more primal. My ancestors would have heated it over an open fire and bent it between two trees. Well I attempted the workshop equilivant of that. I heated the wood with a heat gun while I held and rotated it and then I manually applied pressure while wedged in an open vice. I could almost hear the drumbs of my ancestors beating faintly in the background as my forearms tired as I clenched the wood as it cooled. I'll give it more time to cool and then check how effective this technique was.

I have been testing with the string method but the string line at rest and at brace height is quite different. We'll see how well my last bend took and I will do some more drastic straightening if needed.

The heating worked! The string is tracking pretty nicely.

I take measurements a few inches down each limb and my goal is + 3/16 on the top limb (positive tiller). It's currently at + 2.5/16 so lookin good!

49@20

Are you monitoring the mass weight of the bow?

Looking good.

Russell

Arrows will soon be flying.

Good for you. Have fun. Jawge

Thanks guys! She's shaping up. Gonna get to work on those tips and handle soon.

Looking good Rob.not much longer and you will be putting a finish on that one.

I appled another small bend with the heat gun to straighten up the tips some. I also rasped down the last 10 inches to taper into a smaller tip.

Then I glued on some overlays that I previously shaped up a bit with a rasp.

In the end it doesnt really matter, but I started using superglue for my overlays so I could start working them down much quicker than with tightbond.

Handle
Time to rough out the handle. Everyone says handle is personal preference, and it is, but that isn't that helpful in building one. :) My best advice is to put your bare hand on it often and work it until it's comfortable and positions the bow properly. Other than that just keep it thich enough that it doesn't bend if that's not what you want. It doesn't take much thickness to keep it from bending. I don't prefer the look of an arrow rest but it helps accurarcy and I prefer being accurate more so I use one. Throught the handle building I sketch out where I want to remove wood from. Remember you can always take off but not put it back!

I use a saw to cut the arrow rest. Draw it out and go slow. I suggest not going quite in 1/2 way and leaving lots of wood on the other side.

Looking good to me. You've done this before.

Russell

Hot Box
I decided to bite the bullet and build a hot box. I used 2x12x6 boards and left over reptile heating equipment. I'm testing it out before I put my bow in there. I'm very happy with how it turned out. I had the heat pads, if they don't work I can buy some bulbs.

Suggest larger holes for air movement. Maybe like 1+"

Looking good Rob. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished bow.

Bow and future arrows are baking away at 105ish.

Did a quick tiller check after finishing the handle and tips. 47@20

52@23 +2/16 positive tiller

After a little tip TLC.

Rob...your about 50-75 scrapes per limb away from finishing...hurry up already n finish that thing,youve been dragging us along for over a month now. Lol.. ;)

U comin over fri? Bring it if u are...duh???

haha Ya but I'm in super causious, "don't muck it up" mode now. At this point do you recommend shooting some arrows at 1/2 - 3/4 draw to judge the bow's behavior before going to sanding? I was going to try to sand it in at 60# figuring it may lose 5 as it settles and gets used to my super long "compound" holds at full draw. ;-)

Also I want to ensure it's dry before yanking it back too far. Pulling basically to 20 inches several times I've lost 2 inches of the 3 inches of reflex. Still an inch left and I'd be thrilled if it ended up straightish.

Chris, I'll definitely be by on Friday after work. I'm coming from a client site so time TBD but I'll try to make it at 4 or 5. I'll be shootin my elm for practice as that's what I'll be turkey hunting with. I'll bring the osage with me.

Id make sure all my edges are rounded,all the tool marks are gone,and sand it out. Then brace it for a few hours and then check it. Youll lose 2-3 pounds easy by doing all those steps alone. And if tiller looks good where you where last at,then pull it another inch,and if ok still continue another inch if you can and not go over your target weight or past an area that needs worked. I bet youll be right on target and will have to make a small minor adjustment in tiller at most due to how it looks now,and maybe none at all. And if all is well then start shooting it.

I was just givin ya hard time....take as long as you need bro ;) sounds good for friday

Really wanna see this one!

Suggest getting the moisture content lower before any more bending.

Believe I cut the log 14 months ago.

Russell

Perhaps a stronger man would be able to let the bow sit untouched, but much like a fine burbon I lack the willpower to let a beautiful bow sit unattended for too long. I do not want to bend it yet as I'd like to let it sit in the hot box for a bit longer. However I think it is close enough to my intended draw weight that I decided to shelf the wood scraper and use sand paper from here on out. I went over the entire bow with 80 and used increasingly finer grits on the handle, tips, and back. I didn't fine out the limbs yet as I may need to do more sanding during final tillering. After a stay in the hot box I'll fire some arrows and work the tiller down to my intended draw length, which is a minimum of 55# at 27 inches.

After progressing to 600 grit on the handle and tips I am absolutely amazed at how silky smooth the wood became. I don't think that any wood I have perviously worked with became quite this smooth. It's like silk almost. Osage is some amazing stuff!

Rob...i am 100% sure your woods moisture content is in the safe to work zone. Theres several indicators telling me so. For one we dry heated the heck out of that handle(the thickest part of the stave,and if any moisture was left in it it wood have been in there) to align the string,and if any moisture was left there it wood have told us by checking. Next you tempered the belly pretty heavy for osage when you induced reflex in it,and you reported no checks. And then for a third time you made one more heat adjustment,and no checking happened. If osage is even a few percentage points above the safe working zone and you heat it the way you did,it will check on you and tell you its moisture content is to high. And last you lost 2" of 3" induced reflex,which is within reason for that much induced reflex. If it wasnt dry enough it wouldve take more of a loss than that because thats a more stressed side profile than a straight one. And im sure that tempering you did dropped its mc down even if it was on the high side.

Now is that stave totally "seasoned",well that can be debatable. But its moisture content is for sure aok.

That deep cut-out for your arrow rest may come back to haunt you. I did the same on my first osage bow and it snapped right at the cut-out.

Lots of folk carry their center shot recurve image of what a bow should look like into their initial selfbow building attempt. Selfbows don't need a deep sight window and cutting one out only weakens the bow greatly in the handle.

@Eric, hey no use of the B word on this thread! ;-) I figured this design will hold the arrow well, open up my sight picture, and give me close to center shot for accuracy. I cut in a bit less than 1/2 way and left a good amount of material expecially on the thickness side. Hopefully that is sufficient to make it durable.

If I can shoot equally well with an external rest, then I would consider it. I really like the looks of some of the soft rests as well. Now my primary concern is accuracy (as I learn to shoot). So i'm trying to do everything I can to have me equipment help me. Here is a pic of my elm I'm currently shooting. Thanks for the advice!

What's the thinest measurement on the rest?

Make the V-corner rounded some. That will help with stress concentrating in one specific spot. Worst thing is for a sharp corner.

There's some sexy curves in that handle. Really like it.

Russell

I think it's looking real good so far. Should end up being a fine bow indeed.

Here's a few things I see to consider: 1) I also think it's pretty gutsy cutting that far in for the shelf/ window. 2) Some like to file the nock grooves down at a bit more of an angle so that the loop isn't bent as much. 3)I think the rings are plenty thick enough to handle it (unless you got aggressive) but I wouldn't sand the back with 80 grit. 4) bundle the shoots together with twine or string while they dry.

Again, you're doing great...just some things to think about.

Chris

Shooting!!
This has been a great week all around. Yesterday a Sr. member of the gun club I'm in brought some 5 year old hickory staves he had in. He had always considered making a bow but never got around to it. I guess seeing me shoot mine at the club gave him the boost he needed. I brought in some pencils and a ruler and explained some basics to him as we laid out his bow on the massive stave. Really we could get 3 bows out of it if we really wanted to. I was thrilled to get to give me first lesson to a willing student. In return he gave me one of the hickory staves!

Today I went to Blackhawk's house on a beautiful sunny PA day to shoot some arrows, build some bows, and conversate with his kids (which may be my favorite part of it all). :) I brought my bow from about a 20 inch tiller to 27 with 80 grit sand paper alone. It was a pleasure patiently easing it in the final few inches. I'm quickly learning bowyering is no place for inpatience.
We got her tillered down and fired some arrows! And fire they did! You all are probably used to bows that spit arrows but the difference in this bow and any I've made before is night and day! There is no doubt the force coming out of it is lethal. Now it's just a matter of getting my aim down, which is improving. I was like a kid at christmas today. To fire the first arrows out of my new bow and to have such an impressive (to me at least) result was really special.
I've learned a ton making this bow and I'm excited for future efforts. Now I'm going to fire a bunch more arrows and finish this killer off! Of course I'll post some pics when I'm done.
Thanks! Rob

Looking sweet Rob. Congrats. You have a good teacher in Blackhawk he's been pumping out the bows and been making some really nice looking ones.

Great buildalong, great team work, great excersize in patience and taking as long as it takes to do it right. And now you have a great bow that should last many years. I like the way you guys work together.

that was fun last night watching your face all lit up when you started throwing some arrows with it,and you had a grin on your face all the way to your truck before you left. it shoots and spits an arrow proper in my opinion.

that picture rob posted was 57@27,so it will prob settle in at 57@28" when hes done.

PERFECT, and good job rob of hitting your intended weight buddy :)

thanks for the nice comments Randy ;)

Congratulations.