Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Supercharged Bear TD

Messages posted to thread:
COVEJEEPSXJ 23-Apr-12
COVEJEEPSXJ 23-Apr-12
COVEJEEPSXJ 23-Apr-12
Paul M 23-Apr-12
Mike Etzler 23-Apr-12
Hunt OH 23-Apr-12
COVEJEEPSXJ 23-Apr-12
Tradbh 23-Apr-12
Orion 23-Apr-12
Wolfkiss 24-Apr-12
COVEJEEPSXJ 24-Apr-12
Wildbob 24-Apr-12
Ryman Cat 24-Apr-12
TinHorn 24-Apr-12
4nolz@work 24-Apr-12
Tradbh 24-Apr-12
COVEJEEPSXJ 25-Apr-12
K Cummings 25-Apr-12
Bill C 25-Apr-12
Kenny Lester 25-Apr-12
DanaC 25-Apr-12
George D. Stout 25-Apr-12
raghorn 25-Apr-12
COVEJEEPSXJ 25-Apr-12
COVEJEEPSXJ 25-Apr-12
DanaC 25-Apr-12
bowwilid 25-Apr-12
Mike Etzler 25-Apr-12
raghorn 25-Apr-12
DanaC 25-Apr-12
DanaC 25-Apr-12
rd2 25-Apr-12
dkard 25-Apr-12
COVEJEEPSXJ 25-Apr-12
Gvdocholiday 25-Apr-12
Ryman Cat 25-Apr-12
Ryman Cat 25-Apr-12
COVEJEEPSXJ 26-Apr-12
leveraction 26-Apr-12
SportHunter 26-Apr-12
dkard 26-Apr-12
Ryman Cat 26-Apr-12
Wolfkiss 26-Apr-12
Tradbh 26-Apr-12
DanaC 27-Apr-12
moosehunter 07-May-13
rare breed 08-May-13
HillbillyKing 08-May-13
bowdoc 08-May-13
newell38 08-May-13
George D. Stout 08-May-13
Blackhawk 08-May-13
Selden Slider 08-May-13
reddogge 08-May-13
lonfitz 08-May-13
Paul M 08-May-13
4nolz@work 08-May-13
Frisky 08-May-13
4nolz@work 08-May-13
stagetek 08-May-13
Frisky 09-May-13
bowdoc 09-May-13
From: COVEJEEPSXJ
Date: 23-Apr-12




Border Archery has introduced new Bear Takedown Limbs loaded with their Hex Technology. The limbs are just being released and will be available on their site very shortly. Many options will be available.

I was totally blown away when I unpacked them.

Fit, Finish, Materials, Design, Attention to Detail All Unbelievable. Order them up boys. I have a set and they are awesome. I am still working on getting them setup perfectly (been super busy with work) but I must say WOW.

I have them shooting nicely now with a GoldTip 5575 right around 9 gpp. I have the limbs on a Mag A Handle. Shooting an 8 strand Skinny String with Wool Puff Ball Silencers.

They are wicked fast. I don't have a chrono so this is all "seat-of-the-pants" but the limbs are the fastest Bear TD limbs I have ever strung up. Not that fast means everthing but sure makes you take notice!!!

I still need a little tuning to get them setup perfectly and find that optimum sweet spot.

I am not a real technical bow guy but again going from a seat-of-the-pants feeling these limbs build weight real early in the draw cycle and towards the end of the draw actually feel like they draw easier. Somewhat difficult to explain and you need to draw them to really feel it for yourself...If anyone on here is going to be at The Baltimore Shoot in May the limbs will be there and anyone is welcome to take them to the target butts or join us on the course to shoot a round.

From: COVEJEEPSXJ
Date: 23-Apr-12




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From: COVEJEEPSXJ
Date: 23-Apr-12




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From: Paul M
Date: 23-Apr-12




nice

From: Mike Etzler
Date: 23-Apr-12




Those look powerful,,really nice,,Thanks for the pics.

From: Hunt OH
Date: 23-Apr-12




how much can people expect to pay for a set?

From: COVEJEEPSXJ
Date: 23-Apr-12




Mike, You are quite welcome. Hunt OH, The prices vary depending on options and specs. Please contact Border Archery for prices, I don't want to misquote.

From: Tradbh
Date: 23-Apr-12




With the changed limb angle and those NASTY hooks,they OUGHTA be a screamer!

From: Orion Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 23-Apr-12




Interesting. The limbs look a little delicate near the ends, but given that they're mostly carbon, I expect they'll hold up OK. Might you have a pix of the strung bow with those limbs? Thanks for sharing.

From: Wolfkiss
Date: 24-Apr-12




COVEJEEPSXJ, I called up to border two weeks ago and shot Sids Prototype limbs on an old Mag A riser.Weight in the mid 40's, they sent my 575g arrow to the target with authority, very smooth and similar to my hex5's, gain very little weight the last couple of inches of the draw, like you stated almost feels like a let off.

I ordered the hex 6 mediums 56# @28 to give me a 60"bow on my o3 A riser.

Now I've just got to wait........tick, tock.

From: COVEJEEPSXJ
Date: 24-Apr-12




Orion, Nothing delicate about the limbs and yep, that is carbon. Border has been using the design in their bow limbs and also ILF limbs so it is tested. I will post some strung pics when I get some free time.

Wolfkiss, Excellent. I might suggest sending your riser to Border to have the limb butts shaped to fit your 03 handle. The textured paint on the limb pockets/sockets on the newer handles can make limb fitment an issue. That is unless you already tried the Border limbs in your newer handle.

From: Wildbob
Date: 24-Apr-12




Thanks covejeepsxj. Those look realy nice. Are they as smooth and quite as the bear? Or do you get a little more vibration with the carbon?

Thanks again for the post.

From: Ryman Cat
Date: 24-Apr-12




Sweet whats the price of these Nick?

My limbs from Jim Gainey should be here in a week or so just got off phone with him. They are going to be slick to with bone tips. Can't wait to see what they do on A and B risers.

From: TinHorn
Date: 24-Apr-12




That is the wickedest recurve I've seen in a while! Those tips must move like lightening when you release. I'll bet it throws 500g broadheads at over 190fps, easy. I want to see a foto of it strung, and BTW, what's the brace height? --TinHorn

From: 4nolz@work
Date: 24-Apr-12




I bet Bear Archery is thrilled.

From: Tradbh
Date: 24-Apr-12




WAY too high tech for BEAR.They'd need another 50yrs. To get it right!

From: COVEJEEPSXJ
Date: 25-Apr-12




Thanks Guys. The recommended braceheight is between 6.5" and 7.5". Currently I have it right around the 7.5", but at the end of last week I was messing around with a different string and had it shooting pretty well at 6.5". The weather turned sour then and I didn't get to shoot it much after that. I still need to get some more string time to get it right where it needs to be.

The limbs when setup correctly are just as smooth and shockfree as the original Bear Limbs. Tuning is pretty crucial with them though.

I will post some strung pictures this evening.

I am getting a good bit of questions about the price. Please contact Border Archery for exact prices. They vary based upon which model and options you choose and I don't want to misquote.

From: K Cummings
Date: 25-Apr-12

K Cummings's embedded Photo



Looks to be their Hex-6 ILF limb with add-ons, yes?

KPC

From: Bill C
Date: 25-Apr-12




K Cummiins: Yes....my thoughts exactly. I have HEX 6 ILF limbs on my DAS riser and they look just like what you outlined.

BTW..,anyone have a RH A mag riser they would like to get rid of?

From: Kenny Lester Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 25-Apr-12




"I bet Bear Archery is thrilled."

No joke. I agree with 4nolz@work. Just another foreign rip-off of a classic American design.

Maybe Fred was kind of lax on his patents but I doubt Escalade Sports will be so kind.

From: DanaC
Date: 25-Apr-12




Bill, I suspect that with the availability of a truly high-performance limb, those risers are going to appreciate in value. A lot! (They do show up n e-bay; I'm tempted to gobble up a few, strictly as an investment ;-) )

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 25-Apr-12




I think you may be overstating the desire for those limbs. There will be some who choose them, but the market will not be devastating to anyone. Call me back in ten years and tell me how much this has affected Bear's limbs sales.

Ryman Cat, we know you hate Bear dude.....but there wouldn't be a classic Custom Kodiak T/D without them. I think they are the best T/D made....just the way they are.

From: raghorn
Date: 25-Apr-12




Bear, or Rose Oak won't have any competition due to the price on these Border limbs. A different looking limb for sure, but they are not going to take over the market unless traditional shooters are not concerned with their cash flow.

From: COVEJEEPSXJ
Date: 25-Apr-12




I would say that the availability of aftermarket limbs (there are numerous bowyers making limbs for the Bear TD's) has done nothing but HELP Bear Archery's sales of their takedown risers.

From: COVEJEEPSXJ
Date: 25-Apr-12




I would say that the availability of aftermarket limbs (there are numerous bowyers making limbs for the Bear TD's) has done nothing but HELP Bear Archery's sales of their takedown risers.

From: DanaC
Date: 25-Apr-12




Raghorn, wadr, have you ever shot Border limbs? I have a set made several years ago, and they *-smoke-*. If a pile of dollars landed in my lap anytime soon I'd buy some new Hex's and scare myself ;-)

I can't wait to see some chronograph numbers comparing Border limbs to anything Bear makes.

No, that level of performance isn't for everyone's budget, but neither are the majority of custom or even semi-custom bows out there.

And really, have you priced the Borders out vs. Bear or Rose Oak?

From: bowwilid Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 25-Apr-12




I have never seen a Border but I just bought one (Recurve with HEX4 limbs) and will be shooting it this Saturday. It will have a lot to live up to as I have several other bows that I like a lot and are great performers.

I've talked to and e-mailed Sid at Border (never met him) several times this week.

Here's what I was sent in an e-mail this morning about the Bear Limbs:

"On the Bear fit limbs they are high performance with exceptional torsional stiffness much more than the HEX4 they should be faster and much smoother as well They are based on the HEX6 design although we can also make a HEX5 version as well. We make 4 lengths and on the A riser would make 58” to 64” length bows The bow facings are all carbon construction, no glass The B-HEX6-W wood core is $536. The B-HEX5-W are $441 They should give about 190 fps on a 10 gpp arrow perhaps a bit more depending on tune and shooting technique bow lengths drawlength etc."

I've had several different versions of Bear-made limbs and like em. I also have two pair of Rose Oaks (#1 and #3) and I like them as well. I have no idea for sure but I expect these Border limbs to be performers.

You can see from the prices above that they are not at all higher than many after- market versions.

In talking to Sid I think he gets a bit of a bad rap by well-intentioned fans who are may be more strong in their "pitch" than they should be. Like many (not all) bowyers I've talked to and ordered bows from, Sid believes in his product and is very proud of his R&D. You can tell he gets a bigger kick out of raising the performance bar than most of us like to shoot.

From: Mike Etzler
Date: 25-Apr-12




It's gotta be tough being Bear Archery,,living up to a legend ain't easy for sure. Fred Bear would probably be flattered at all those who choose to make limbs for arguably the best takedown system ever made. Pretty big complimant I'd say. I'm sure they've got folks wanting a riser be it new, old or a Mag. Limb makers will come and go but the originals are the originals,,not really enough to argue about.

Limbs look great Nick,,sure wish I could be at Baltimore to give them whirl. Take Care My Friend.

From: raghorn
Date: 25-Apr-12




DanaC; I have never shot a Border but I did not say anything against how they shoot. Just the price of the limbs. The other day the price was 999.00 GBP = $1612 USD Today it is showing 404GBP =$652USD They are a intriging set of limbs but for the XX fps gain over my Bear limbs it's not worth the money to me. Others many want to drop the bucks and will be happy doing so. Guess I am just cheap or comfortable with what I have.

From: DanaC
Date: 25-Apr-12




"Expensive" is a relative term. A new set of Bear glass/wood TD limbs sells for $340. That's steep in today's market, where you can get carbon/foam ILF limbs for under $300. Or glass/wood limbs for well under $2000.

It's nice to have options, including true 'premium' stuff, even if you can't afford it. Because as things change, today's top shelf is tomorrow's mid-point gear.

(Like fly rods. The top rods from ten years ago are half the price today.)

From: DanaC
Date: 25-Apr-12




oops $200, not $2000 !!

From: rd2
Date: 25-Apr-12




Good looking set of limbs,IMO they look fast and quiet. As KPC pointed out,they appear to be modified ilf limbs which to makes sense from a manufacturing standpoint.Good luck with them I'm sure you will enjoy them.

From: dkard
Date: 25-Apr-12




The 999 pounds was a place keeper. The Border Website has finally been updated and is changing daily.

dave

From: COVEJEEPSXJ
Date: 25-Apr-12

COVEJEEPSXJ's embedded Photo



Mike, I am sorry to hear you aren't going to be at Baltimore this year.

Sorry Guys, I just got in a bit ago and don't feel like braking out the camera tonight but here is a picture of a set of the limbs braced (the picture is from the Borders).

From: Gvdocholiday
Date: 25-Apr-12




I'm now shopping for an 'A' riser just to get these limbs.

From: Ryman Cat
Date: 25-Apr-12




Are you febal George I love Bears all Bears and I even swallowed my pride and bought a 2011 Kodiak granted it was used for a steal and shot it for a while. I saw another fellow at my club and looked at his bow though and thought Hmm this is what mine will look like so I offed it. He said he had about 2,000 arrows through it already and it looked beat andthe glass was horrible and he didn't even realise it until I pointed it out. I showede him mine and he looked at his and shock his head I listed it Forsale while I could still get my money out of it.

I may also be getting a Bubinga riser the guy who Big Jim is sending it to asked me if I wanted it and he has Borders limbs on hold wanting to see the riser first. So probably a chicken will hatch another Bear bow on my step.

I only said George that the new Bears suck and they really do based upon all the cosmetic issues they are having and poor quality appearances. I have a ton of Bear bows as well as many other classics and customs and with the Border limbs its going to hot rod the bow too. The way the Border limbs sweep in at the tips looks to be like a slim line design that Bob Lee started with Wing way back when.

I have a set of Jim Gainys limbs due to arrive here in a week or so he says. Well see what they can do no my A mag and my B woodie.

The other bubinga is an A so I'm waiting to see on that as well.

George where in the Lords creation did you come up with I hate Bear? I wanted a green stripe but couldn't bite it and pay the price yet.I like all bows actually but Bears are everyones favorite its what I cut my teeth on too.

Glenn / Cat

From: Ryman Cat
Date: 25-Apr-12




Doubles post Ugh. Wow Nick that is one wicked recurve look there.

Heres an idea? What about long bows limbs for the Bear TD does any one think that it would ruin the Bear TD look?

A set of Borders skinned what do you think that would add some bling to the limbs.

I was never into fast before but now its starting to work on me.

From: COVEJEEPSXJ
Date: 26-Apr-12




Bear tried Longbow Limbs on the Takedowns in the 80's. The result was terrible.

From: leveraction
Date: 26-Apr-12




will the old wood risers hold up to these limbs especially type two?

From: SportHunter
Date: 26-Apr-12




Really cool looking limbs, going to have to get a set for my A risers.

From: dkard
Date: 26-Apr-12




From the Border Website,

Available in four limb lengths. On the "A" riser for example 58", 60", 62", 64". On the "B" riser 62", 64", 66", 68" Brace heights between 6.5" and 7" on A risers and 6,5" and 7..25" on the longer riser.

The possibility of a 64" bow on the A riser is pretty cool, although with the Border HEX limbs you could probably use a shorter set for long draws

dave

From: Ryman Cat
Date: 26-Apr-12




Yeah but look at this technology today Nick what they have been coming up with interchangable limbs with 1 riser either long bow or recurve. I just bet it could be done and I'm visualizing the number 1 set now long bow limbs on the A say like in a 64" lengh or a 62"?

Whos going to try it? Those border limbs look so slick on your bow Nick I am definutly looking into them as well to.

Thanks for sharing and unless we see this going on or are exposed to it we won't know?

From: Wolfkiss
Date: 26-Apr-12




Border do make an ILF longbow limb, the Bear fitting limbs are modified ilf. I bet if you emailed Sid he would probably say he can do it, assuming limb angles are right.

From: Tradbh
Date: 26-Apr-12




I don't understand that extremely low brace height? All of my takedowns have shot best at Bears recommended 8 1/4-8 1/2". And that's the OLD recommendation,BEFORE Escalade sports.

From: DanaC
Date: 27-Apr-12




I believe Borders are designed for a lower brace height. Gives a longer power stroke.

From: moosehunter Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 07-May-13




ttt

From: rare breed
Date: 08-May-13




Not sure about the "radical" recurve design. I'm an old "Bear guy" from way back. I prefer to give my business to Americans. I see nothing wrong with the Bear factory limbs-- although I would love to pick up a couple of pairs of Rose Oaks. Heard nothing but superlatives about them... Shoot Straight, rare breed

From: HillbillyKing
Date: 08-May-13




Just Me But Lower Brace Heights always seem less forgiving and the new FF Bear limbs are hard to Beat But Brandon Stahl always seems to Do Just!!! That But This Being said Ive never shot the Border Limbs so can not give my take on them ~HBK~ !!!

From: bowdoc
Date: 08-May-13




boooooooooooooooooooo ........ bd

From: newell38
Date: 08-May-13




Those are pretty cool!

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 08-May-13




Guys, it's just another choice, and an expensive one that fills a niche for those who just have to have something different. Are they better? Probably faster, as that forward design and low brace automatically add speed...I don't know what other "Gozintos" Sid uses in their makeup. As for me it's not different than buying aftermarket limbs from any other bowyer...it makes it a partial Bear. I am a Custom Kodiak fan, but it's not a Custom Kodiak if it doesn't have Bear limbs. Just my opinion...that's all. If you like them and can afford them, then I don't see an argument.

From: Blackhawk Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 08-May-13




I've shot those Border HEX 6's on other risers and have to say they are something special. Try them and I bet you will agree.

From: Selden Slider
Date: 08-May-13




So then it's really not a Bear T/D anymore, is it? The riser is just the handle, the limbs make the bow. How does one rave about a particular T/D and put another manufacturers limbs on it? Poor Fred must be turning over in his grave. Frank

From: reddogge Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 08-May-13




The ILF people don't have too much of a problem putting different manufacturer's limbs on different manufacturer's risers. It's done all the time with no squabbling. What makes Bear risers so sacred?

From: lonfitz
Date: 08-May-13




I sure wish I could get them to make a set for my Bighorn T/D.Don't know why more of these companies ,do not start making limbs for some of these other classic Bows that are no longer made.

From: Paul M
Date: 08-May-13




Thats a sweet bow

From: 4nolz@work
Date: 08-May-13




the difference is the Bear system is proprietary the ILF is not (thats the allure of it).Bear has never enforced patent infringement although fred could have many times over the years.For me if it doesnt say Bear nowadays I dont want it.Design your own.The others are just opportunists imo no matter how nice they are.

From: Frisky
Date: 08-May-13




I don't think patent infringement is an issue, as patents expire in 17 years or so I was led to believe.

Joe

From: 4nolz@work
Date: 08-May-13




I know that just, pointed out Fred never enforced them even back when he could have.

From: stagetek Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 08-May-13




Very interesting to say the least. I would love to see Traditional Bowhunter Magazine do a test of the aftermarket and factory limbs available for the T/D handles. It would be one very "well read" article.

From: Frisky
Date: 09-May-13




Yep. Fred was a generous fellow.

Joe

From: bowdoc
Date: 09-May-13




There was only one person I ever knew of that was contacted by bear archery and told to stop selling their limbs.That was sometime in the late 1970's and that person was the late great Paul Shaffer I bet I spelled Pauls last name wrong.Paul was the only person told by bear archery's legal staff to stop or else bd





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