Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Horse Bows

Messages posted to thread:
Brazilian Bowhunter 21-Jun-05
Tracker 21-Jun-05
Brazilian Bowhunter 21-Jun-05
MStyles 21-Jun-05
Jan 21-Jun-05
edmott 21-Jun-05
DaleRJ 21-Jun-05
Brazilian Bowhunter 21-Jun-05
edmott 23-Jun-05
peter 24-Jun-05
Norseman 24-Jun-05
peter 25-Jun-05
Norseman 25-Jun-05
Brazilian Bowhunter 25-Jun-05
ela gözlü avci 25-Jun-05
pete w 25-Jun-05
Norseman 25-Jun-05
edmott 25-Jun-05
Redbow 25-Jun-05
slimy 25-Jun-05
bluestate 29-Jun-05
Macbow 29-Jun-05
Brazilian Bowhunter 29-Jun-05
mooseman 29-Jun-05
bluelake 29-Jun-05
mooseman 29-Jun-05
bluelake 29-Jun-05
edmott 30-Jun-05
edmott 03-Jul-05
red baron 03-Jul-05
Jhoneil 03-Nov-05
UKarcher 03-Nov-05
2fletch 03-Nov-05
archer 04-Feb-08
dsuursoo 04-Feb-08
Tamr the Nomad 04-Feb-08
ProfX 04-Feb-08
tecum-tha 18-Feb-09
IndianGuy 18-Feb-09
juneauhunt 18-Feb-09
From: Brazilian Bowhunter
Date: 21-Jun-05




Is there someone here who shoot the turkish, mongolian etc... style bow? How do you like it? How accuracy are you with these bows?

Someone here who build them ?

I know they are fast bows but, are they smooth?

No problem if you post some pics too... Pedro Selegato

From: Tracker
Date: 21-Jun-05




Look up saluki Bows. He makes excellent Turkish style bows and shoots them from horseback himself.

From: Brazilian Bowhunter
Date: 21-Jun-05




Thanks Tracker, I'll have a look.

From: MStyles
Date: 21-Jun-05




When I go shooting, my Saluki's usually end up being the bow I take with me. I like my other bow's, but the Ibex and Scythian(s) are more fun to shoot. They are fast like you said, but with tempered bamboo limb's and the non-bending tip's, they are vey smooth. Other's who have shot my bow's alway's ask what's the draw weight? When I tell them they are shooting a 58#, 61# or 64# bow, they can't believe it. They alway's say, "No way this is that much weight". It feels lighter because of the no stacking, and smooth drawing. Accuracy lie's with the archer.

From: Jan
Date: 21-Jun-05




I was shooting with a turkish FlagellaDei bow for some time. FD is one of the many hungarian companies building asian style bows. They are not necessarily fast bows - just have a look at the massive tips...but certainly good fun! Always found it difficult to shoot as accurate as with a longbow or recurve. Some of the finest bows makes Csaba Grozer www.grozerarchery.com Especially the Old Scythian are worth a look or two.

From: edmott
Date: 21-Jun-05




I have a Rudderbows Hungarian bow that he gets from:

Justin Steinmetz Bowstick Archery 1204 Roosevelt Dr. Havertown Pa. 19083 484.620.1877

www.bowstick.com

> The make of the bow is Toth Istavan, a Hungarian bow maker.

I shoot off my hand -- it is blinding fast and accurate 68# with no stacking.

From: DaleRJ
Date: 21-Jun-05




Try Chris at http://www.spitfirearchery.com/ he builds custom bows to your requirements. I know Chris personally and have shot more than 20 of his bows. If a horse bow is what you need he can build it to fit you. DaleRJ

From: Brazilian Bowhunter
Date: 21-Jun-05




Thanks for all the information. Good stuff at Grozer archery!

edmot, how much have you paid for your bow? There is no prices at that web site.

I think I'll have to learn how to buid these bows... they're awsome

From: edmott
Date: 23-Jun-05




Jim Boswell (rudderbows) does not have any at the moment. > > > in November of 2004 I bought one for $363 but a month ago he had it for $275.

From: peter
Date: 24-Jun-05




I don´t belive in Hungarian bows. I´m living near the Hungarian Border. I never shot a horsebow with cast and speed. The limbs are full glassfiber, wrapped with leather at most of this bows.

 

Stay with your U.S. recurves....and have fun & speed !!!

From: Norseman
Date: 24-Jun-05




Yup, I own a Gorzer Scythian and it is AWESOME... less the $200 and a GREAT bow...

Although it took many more months then expceted to receive....just make sure you are aware of that and don't expect it in a few months...

But it was WELL worth the wait for what I received and paid for it...

Brazil- send me an email if you want pics of the Scythian I menitoned above... I just ordered another one too....=->

From: peter
Date: 25-Jun-05




Don´t they have very heavy syahs ?

From: Norseman
Date: 25-Jun-05




Peter,

The Scythian I have is called the Old style Scythian...it just has string nock posts.. no syahs....it is pretty fast... mostly I was amazed at what I got for the money... I am 6'4", so I don't shoot it much....I like longer bows...but it is a great deal for the price...=->

From: Brazilian Bowhunter
Date: 25-Jun-05




Paul, have you thought in building one of these bows? I'll send you the e-mail

From: ela gözlü avci
Date: 25-Jun-05




I own a 50 pound Grozer TRH laminated Turkish bow. TRH technology involves some kind of synthetic material, it's not fiberglass. The bow's performance is not bad, just a little bit under my Samick TD Hunter in the same poundage.

I also shoot a Grozer 45 pounder Mongolian bow. That's the type Peter was talking about: solid fiberglass limbs covered with leather. Within these light poundage spectrum it may be useless for big game hunting but it makes really fun to shoot with them. After all I met and spoke to Dr. Gabor Szolossy who got his doctoral degree with his dissertation about "the mechanics of Hungarian bows of 10th century". He said he had measured the performances of the fiberglass used by Hungarian bowyers and found Grozer's material superior. Actually I decided to my the Mogolian bow after I shot with Dr. Szollossy's all-fiberglass Turkish, Avar and Magyar (Hungarian) bows (all made by Grozer). The all fiberglass bows of other manufacturers may be inferior in performance (I don't know).

My last experience with Grozer bows is shooting a real hornbow. This 65 pound bow is very fast and impressive. This kind of replicas are more expensive than the replicas made of synthetic material.

The three of them have remarkable hand shock (compared to take down recurves with a build-up riser)but generally they're smooth shooters. There is no pinch and stacking although they're quite short (The turkish bows are under 55 inch). Additional I found them aesthetic and a part of history.

From: pete w
Date: 25-Jun-05




I have been learning to shoot a Spitfire 40# Sasanid style horsebow , with a thumb ring.

This is not as easy as it sounds but it sure is a lot of fun and a challenge.Spitfire  bows are fast, light, 14 OZ and quiet with no hand shock at all.Comparing them to american longbows/recurves is like comparing golf to football.

It is a fasanating way to shoot and it does take time to learn.

From: Norseman
Date: 25-Jun-05




Brazil- I answered your email....=->

I, too, like the looks of the old asiatic and mid east bows....we have to remember how OLD these designs are....it is amazing to me what they accomplished with the tolls they had...very impressive..

Brazil- That was the main reason I bought the Grozer bow was to see if I could build one with only all bamboo....haven't got the guts to try it yet....but I will...=->

From: edmott
Date: 25-Jun-05




The original recurves . . . Just think, if Ghengas Khan had lived and moved west would he have taken the bowmen of England?

From: Redbow
Date: 25-Jun-05




Gengish Khan was on the wrong end of the longbow,not the English bow ,but the Japanese bow. From what i have seen and my personal face to face dealings with Lucas Navotney of Saluki bows,just go and buy a Saluki. If hyou are really into Horse bows thats the bow you will end up with at some point. So save time and money and buy Saluki they are the "king of the hill."

From: slimy
Date: 25-Jun-05




Ive got an Assyrian static recurve coming in about 3 months. The Assyrian is basically a composite bow or Horse bow with a small forward riser, deflexed limbs and static tips at the end.

You could try www.javamanarchery.com

Gregg makes some really nice bows and almost all the fetures can be customized except the general profile and layout.

My bow is a Winewood Pakkawood riser, Bamboo actionwood core, buffalo horn overlays and masur birch veneers on the belly!

I cant wait: give his website a loook at:

www.javamanarchery.com

From: bluestate
Date: 29-Jun-05




http://www.hwarangarchery.com/

I have a Hwarang and am learning to use it with a thumbring. It isn't easy to find other horsebow owners in my area, let alone folks who use a thumbring, but online research makes me think that the Hwarang stacks up well against the competition. You have to admit that the Koreans know a thing or two about archery! I am nowhere near as accurate with it (yet) as I am with a Martin recurve using a three-finger draw, but I enjoy the challenge and the sense of tradition.

From: Macbow
Date: 29-Jun-05




I have a couple of Hungarian horse bows by Quadrex of Hungary - 46 & 52#. Nicely made for the money and shoot smoother and look much prettier than my friend's Grozer Scythian (the cheapest model), which admittedly is a shorter bow. I was shooting my 46# Hunbow today and comparing it to my 45# Border Griffon longbow - not a fair comparison as my Griffon cost over three times as much as the Quadrex - Griffon is yew/carbon/glass where the Quadrex is all glass leather wrapped with wood siyahs. My draw is only 27" so actual bow weights are lower. Using the same 11/32 50-55# shafts with 125 gr points and 5" feathers I found the Hunbow was very accurate once you get your bow hand position right but performance drops off noticeably as distance to target increases. I use a gap/split vision to aim and my longbow gap at 20 yards is roughly 30" below centre spot (Quadrex about 26"), point on at 36 yards (Quadrex 30 yards), longbow gap at 50 yards is about 24" above centre spot (Quadrex about 40"). The Hunbow however is a lot easier to draw and is a lot of fun to use especially when shooting instinctively up to 30 yards. It is also very forgiving, virtually silent and very tolerant of arrow spine with very little handshock (far less than the little Samick SKB). I get better results all round with lighter, longer arrows and smaller feathers. Haven't tested my 52# bow yet. Great fun, something different and perform OK for $200.

From: Brazilian Bowhunter
Date: 29-Jun-05




Thanks for sharing your experiences folks

From: mooseman
Date: 29-Jun-05




I have had a true horsebow (sinew/wood/horn) on order from Traditional-Archery-Scandinavia since Feb. of 2004. I just emailed them for a completion date for my bow. I don't like to get picky but most of the bows mentioned in this thread are not horsebows... they are wood laminate or fibreglas bows that in poor light conditions look something like a true horsebow. By the sounds of the replies, they do not shoot like true horsebows either.

From: bluelake
Date: 29-Jun-05




Mooseman,

First, one should consider what a horsebow is.  By definition, it would be a bow shot from a horse.  Many of the bows mentioned, including the Korean bows I represent, fall into that category; many people pick them up for horse archery, as they are well-suited to the task.  The Korean horse archery team (KEMA Korea Equestrian Martial Arts) uses only the laminated Korean trad bow.  A horsebow is not always the same as a horn bow, although the latter historically was often used as the former.  The definition of horsebow does not dictate what the bow is made from; while some may be a composite of horn/wood/sinew, others might use some manmade materials. 

Next, consider the looks.  If you look at the Hwarang, it looks almost exactly like a true Korean horn bow (in good light, too); often, people have to get right up to it to see that it isn't.  The feel and performance matches (and often exceeds) that of the true horn bow. 

Not all historic Korean horsebows were horn bows, either.  One that is still extant was bamboo-backed/bamboo-bellied and used no horn. http://www.hornbow.com/mokgoong.html

The Korean horn bow industry is in trouble, due to Korean gov't prohibitions on horn/sinew imports.  Eventually, the laminated bow may be all that will be available for use.

T

 

From: mooseman
Date: 29-Jun-05




You make some good technical points, bluelake. Perhaps the term (and for honesty and accuracy, terms are important) should be historic horsebows to differentiate the cheap knockoffs made from modern synthetics from those patterned after those used by the Mongols, Huns, etc. It is too easy and borders on the dishonest to call any bow shot from a horse a "horsebow". It is almost a sacrilige to call a cheap curved wannabe a horsebow. It is an insult to anyone who has taken the time and developed the talent to more nearly duplicate the materials and techniques that went into making the historic or traditional horsebows. IMO

From: bluelake
Date: 29-Jun-05




I understand your thoughts, Mooseman.  However, I would not blanket those made with modern materials as "cheap knockoffs."  Although some might fit that bill, there are also some that adhere to high standards.  The Korean bowyers who make the bows I represent have worked at their art for years; some of them are also horn bowyers.  The bows are hand-crafted, as opposed to production line, just like their true horn bow brothers.  A great amount of the materials used are natural, but even the man-made materials are the highest-quality available.

My son (ca. 2001) drawing a true Korean horn bow:

 

 

My son (ca. 2004) drawing a Korean laminated trad bow:

 

From: edmott
Date: 30-Jun-05




Bluelake  -- Cool pics!

From: edmott
Date: 03-Jul-05




Try this site:

 

http://www.flagelladei.hu/eng/composite/

From: red baron
Date: 03-Jul-05




i've shot a mongol a few times shoots low but great penatrashon

From: Jhoneil
Date: 03-Nov-05




Mooseman,

I checked out the Traditional Archery Scandinavia website and I think they are just selling Grozer Bows. Am I wrong? Is that what you ordered? Why did you not just order from Csaba himself? He is great and very quick. He makes "cheap curved wannabe" horsebows as well as ones made from traditional materials. I guess he is insulting himself by making bows out of modern materials :P

From: UKarcher
Date: 03-Nov-05




I bought a Samwha Korean replica about four years ago and it's the best fun I've had with a bow. It only cost about £60 ($100) new. It's fast, smooth and great for taking into the woods. I tried shooting it with a thumbring a couple of times but that just had me rolling on the floor with laughter. If you want a traditional bow with the punch of a compound then try a Mongolian, they are awesome.

From: 2fletch
Date: 03-Nov-05




I bought three of the Korean bows mentioned by Blue Lake above for resale. The weights are 42#, 45#, and 50# at 28". It took a bit of getting use to as the bows are short and very lightweight. By American bow standards, they look like they would easily break. Not so, they are made to pull well past the 28 -29 inches that most of us shoot. Starting with the 42# bow, I shot each of them 15-20 times as part of my normal checkout routine. I was impressed at how light in hand they were, how smooth they were to pull, but yet had great speed.

 Then I tried the thumbring. Now that's going to take some getting use to. I like the idea, but it's like relearning archery. With a little comprmising here and there, I believe that it's possible to use the thumbring  efficiently. I'm looking forward to learning this ancient technique.  

From: archer
Date: 04-Feb-08




I just bought a hungarian horse bow from Attilas Archery. It shoots great and has no hand shock. it is 55lbs. I am really happy with it.

From: dsuursoo
Date: 04-Feb-08




i used a toth mongolian style until the upper limb delaminated. turns out there's a maxiumum draw length, and i was exceeding it.

but amazingly sweet bows. i'll be making a traditional materials horsebow for next season.

From: Tamr the Nomad
Date: 04-Feb-08




Grozer Bows are pretty nice I shot one once. Have a Kassai and a Spitfire too Love my Spitfire.

Brazilian, Is that a number? Sounds like a lot of hunters.

Kidding, My brother is married to a sweet young woman from Sao Palo and I can't get her to tell me anything about the native archery in Brazil. What do you know?

Tamr

From: ProfX
Date: 04-Feb-08




I lucked into a Saluki Ibex second-hand and although it's more of a hybrid horsebow/recurve, it's just about the best-shooting bow I've tried yet. Light as a feather yet delivers an arrow with authority. I love the semi-pistol grip too.

Unfortunately, there's at least a 6 month wait... and I'd really like to try the Oryx too.

Anyone got an Oryx in the 60# range? ;-)

From: tecum-tha
Date: 18-Feb-09




I shoot one of the korean Hwarang 25 model which I bougth from bluelake. I draw it 25.5",it is 70#@28" and I shoot 600grain+ arrows from it. 185 fps average with those arrows at an IBO shoot, 7 shots. I try to do the thumbring thing and for flight shooting,it really works nice. For precision shooting(hunting) I prefer split-finger. I won aleady 2 archery shoots with it.

I gave it to another fellow and he draws 30". He was shooting a 907grain carbon arrow. This thing zipped out there!

From: IndianGuy
Date: 18-Feb-09

IndianGuy's embedded Photo



My latest number from my hwarang was 208 fps appx 57# at 32" weighs nothing and shoots very smooth with thumb ring draw. My custom longbow thats 59# at 28" shoots around 182 fps using the same arrow. Slow....not at all. hard to learn how to shoot with a thumb ring? Yes!...Fun? without a doubt!

From: juneauhunt
Date: 18-Feb-09




The old "Easton Axis off the hand from a horsebow with a thumbring" trick, huh?





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