Looking through past threads I see everyone says the are tuff,if they like them or not. Why are widows so tuff,what is "tuff",is there something special in them that other bows don't have?Looking for an honest opinion before I test drive.thanks

Let the battle begin!

In the video that comes with  new Black Widow bow there's one scene where a guy sets a bow on the floor, stands on the limb tip and bends the limb the opposite way.  And he just doesn't bend it a little.  I don't know if other bows would stand up to that - and I'm sure not trying it with any of mine. 

Phil

they are very tough! tougher than other bows? not sure, I guess it depends on the other bow. I had a martin Pioneer longbow that I uses to beat on and I would whip it against trees, poke camp fires with it, leave it out side all winter strung, and I would also unstring it and throw it at stuff like a spear. so there are defenitely other bows out there just as tough..

I think a lot of their toughness comes from the multi laminated risers and nice heavy finish.  Quality control is what they are known for and I'm sure that's one of the reasons they have a tough reputation also. 

 

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Black water, do you mean plywood? Oh now that's gonna fire a few folks up.LOL I had a guy ask me about a widder once, I told him just to go to LOWE's and get some plywood, glue it together and paint it and there ya have it. I'm just kiddin fellas, I like them there bows a lot and they shoot very nicely.

Anything that ugly must be tough to still be around.Let the games begin!

ROFLOMAO!!!!!!!  ;^)

 Plywood!!!!, how dare you.

LOL, yeah I guess technically you could call it plywood, but there are multiple layers of glass in the risers' also.  That's actually what I was referring to.

 

Anyhow, I own 4 widers and I'm scared to find out actually how tough they are.  They cost to d@mn much to throw around.  LOL

So you guys are infering that no other bowyers use "Actionwood" besides Widow??? Hmmmmm.............Try again, as just about everyone else that isn't making selfbows does too. Of course they might call it "Dymondwood" or another derivative, but laminated just the same. Widows can stand on their own merits, but at least get your facts straight........ TL

I think that red inter layer of woven glass in the limbs helps to make'em so tuff.

If you've never owned a widow, you havn't lived. Any traditional guy worth his salt owns at least one! :)

Are you sure thats not one of them shinied-up fancy-lookin' rocket-slingin' Ballistik recurves you're talkin' about there, Maine Bob? I hear tell those curvy beauties can get mighty darned ugly when for two years after you buy'em ya STILL don't get to shoot'em, lol...

See ya at the May shoot, Bob. Let me know if the club needs help setting up that morning and I'll leave a little earlier. Say, maybe if you're real special-good and say pretty please I might even let you try my 'ugly ole' MAII. It sure does shoot pretty, even if I can't actually HIT anything with it. ;)

had a Ballistik that cost $1200.00 and was the most unstable recurve I ever shot, but it was "very pretty". now Plywood is good stuff not that garbage particle board they build houses with now.

My Bob Lees, Palmers, Morrison, Blackwidows are plywood and they shoot very very well.

let me see the bows I owned that where not Plywood that shot terrible or broke where a all Bacote Shafer the slowest recurve I've ever owned and a big disappointment and waist of money, Harrison a 850.00 longbow that split up the limb at full draw,still have it under my bed. a Robertson that fealt more like you pulled the pin but didn't let go of the grenade, a griffen that stacked so bad 2" before the stated draw that it should of been used to hold up a baby sunflower plant and not traded to anybody, had a sentman carbon that was slower than my Mattingly selfbows drawing 10pds less than the Sentman, had an Elburg Jaguar Mag that was Soooo loud when I shot it you had to look over the tips because you thought they had to have a crack it was such a sharp sound, the Elburg cherokee I once had shot very nice though. what about the Earth Archery bows that look like a 2-yr old got a hold of the pen and wrote the specs on the side of the bow too bad they don't write how slow they really shoot, yeah all bows have they're flaws I guess and you can have a beautiful bow that shoots terrible or its un-reliable and you can have a plywood bow that will shoot like you've finally found the perfect bow. I really don't understand why people knock the plywood bows?

if we're going to kick the dirt at plywood bows we might as well kick the dirt at the non-plywoods too..

Tajue, That surprises me about that Shafer being so slow, Aren't they known for their speed? Never owned one but they sure are handsome bows. And yes, widows are tuff as any, I had a nock break today so I dry-fired my MA for the first time. It was really loud and it scared me a little but no damage to the limbs.

It's wood made of plies, it isn't plywood. FOr one thing plywood in NA is rearely made of maple or birch through and through. Baltic birch or aircraft birch aside.

Plywood is 0/90 alternating in some pattern or other. Actionwood (usualy maple until recently) is unidirectional. This creates very different mechanical properties.

Risers can use impregnated wood such as some pakkawood or diamondwood. The limbs should usualy be the lamed not impregnated stuff.

Sparta, nobody is necesarily saying that the materials make Widow bows stronger than other bows of identical material. The question was in part what makes them tough, and then what makes them tougher.

Widows have several other features that make them tough. A layer of glass down the middle of the limb. Not something I prefer, but it can't help toughen up the limb, and they also have the glass going back over the whole limb, there isn't a slice of wood that can seperate from the sheathed limb body.

My shafer was the prettiest bow with a really nice grip but for me mine was slow and had funny feeling in the riser when you shot it which almost felt exactly like one of them Lil Korean Bows. and don't get me wrong those bows I mentioned are just a few bad ones that come out. I've shot others from the same makers that where nice bows but like some widows being ugly and loud some are pretty and shoot nice.

something tells me Im gonna get an arrow in the backside for this one.

Widows aren't the prettiest bow around in my opinion, but they are the best all-around bow I've owned. Mine are loud only when the brace height is set too low. At 7 1/2 - 8" there is a loud boing))))). At 8 1/2" it is a quiet thump. Also I've noticed that most any bow is quieter w/ a regular string and not a fast flight.

I was just funnin' with Maine Bob...he had a bad experience with a new bow (you can guess which one) and it kind of hit me funny that nobody seems to have a problem with those kinds of problems with other bows but everyone seems to think nothing of jumping on the Black-Widow-is-garbage train. Bob and I know each other so its all in fun....and he's a lot better shot than I am so he'll get his revenge, lol.

Many people own (or have owned) a pile of different bows. I sure have. I like most of them and some have shot (for me) just as well as Widows, but I'd have to pick the Widow as the overall "tough guy" of the bunch. Even if you don't like'em, take a real close look at one some day. All those laminations and "plywood" make for one rugged bow...and thats to be appreciated if thats the ONLY bow you own and you do more tha shoot backyard targets with it. Pretty bows are nice, but "pretty wimpy" or "pretty dinged up" after a few years of hard use ain't nothin' to brag about.

Bowlim--I've owned 9 Widows over the past 21 years, so apparently you took my post the wrong way. When the bashers can't come up with a viable reason to trash talk a Widow, they fall back on their limited litany of "plywood", "ugly", "noisy" or finally not "custom". Each person is allowed their own opinion, but it gets old to see folks keep kicking the same dead horse.

I can tell you a dozen stories about how tough a Widow is, but either you know it already or you won't believe it anyway........ TL

I think the Noisey thing is Waaaaay over-rated/over-talked about in Traditional bows. 

Yes, without a doubt there are some bows that are inherently quieter than others, but I have never met a Traditional bow that I couldn't get adequetly quiet with some tinkering.

 

 

 

I have to admit, I only own one trad. bow, its a Widow PSA V, being new to the world of traditonal archery, I tried to gather as much info on quality bows as I could before I laid out my money. I honestly dont remember any one that actually owned a widow that had any thing bad to say about them. I am sure from what I read here that there are a lot of quality bows availible, but I knew that if I bought a Widow there would'nt be a concern about the quality or shootability of it. As far as "UGLY" ? back in the college days we used to have a saying, Go ugly early, and avoid the rush. avidarcher..

It's a personal thing, there are a bunch of real great bows to pick from. My choice is the Widow, but I don't bash any other bows out there. (Check the sponsors, there all find bows that will do the job!)As far as the widow bashers-let um cry-who cares!!!

Never owned one, but have shoot them before and they dont float my boat really, but seemd like a nice tuff bow.

Thanks for all the responce. I've made up my mind and am not gonna get a widder.I have a Chastain Wapiti I like but is to heavy, just got off the phone with Keith, the check will be in the mail Monday.

Had a widow for years great bow BUT! there are much better bows out there for the same price that shoot better like morrison,blacktail,and ron La clair super schrews.And thay don't look like a 2by4.

To each, his owm. That's why they make so many different bows, but for me I'll stick with my Widows. row

I've stayed out of the Widow threads because I had never owned or even shot one...until last week when I picked one up second-hand.

Can't vouch for the "tuffness" yet but I will say It is overall one of the best bows I have ever shot and it has impressed me so far.

Don't know that I would spend a grand on any bow but if I did a Widow would certainly be high on my list.

I don't know how everybody says black widows are over priced.any of the top longbows or recurves are as much if not more.are they better then other bows thats up to the shooter.I can shoot any bow out there but until i find one that shoots better than my sa i'll stick with it! >>>>>-------> 3DMUZZY

razor head you're joking, right?

I wonder what we would bicker about if BW bows were gone?

I've shot about a million arrows (it seems) from my 10 yr old LAG. I chuck it out of treestands, leave it strung most of the time and generally abuse it. It still shoots where I'm lookin' and fills the freezer each year. Yeah, they are tough. I don't know if it is coincidence or not but the two best recurve shooters I've ever seen in my bear camp shot Widows; absolutely deadly out to 50 yards. Most that shoot my longbow say it is faster, smoother, and less handshock than others they have shot. No plans to change brands here....

i had a friend string up a martin mountaineer longbow BACKWARDS and pull it to full draw BACKWARDS several tmes and the bow held up fine. I guess the lowly martin mountaineer is just as "tuff" as a Black Widow.

The video that comes with a Black Widow bow has a segment where Bill Bonner (I believe) stands on a limb tip of a recurve and bends the bow the opposite way it is intended to bend.  Maybe that could also be done with other bows, but I was impressed.

Phil

fiberglass has no memory, so maybe it stands to reason that it can bend backwards and be fine. Wood, does have memorey and will break.

 

though I did do the "ken beck thing" and bent an osage selfbow limb backwards and it was fine (long story, don't ask). It was a thin, wide-limbed bow.

I have owned ten or more Black Widows over the years. I currently have five hanging on my bow wall and would not trade them for anything. I have never found a better bow either in the recurve or longbow model. They are tough and unbeatable. Best bows out there.

i shot a widow once, about ten years ago. Very smooth, very nice bows. At the time I had a pse raven recurve and it shot smooth, but the Widow was buttah baby.

I shot a widow recurve and long bow at the PBS gathering in San Antonio, I loved them I shot other bows as well, my stepson and I loved the widows. We will get one soon.

Just FYI, In the new 2004 Black Widow catalog I just got in the mail if you turn to page 12 you will find Martin Bows and a little note that says Black Widow gets calls from people that are interested in switching to a recurve but they don't want to spend the money that a Black Widow costs. Their advice to these people has ALWAYS been to buy a one piece recurve from "MARTIN ARCHERY"! Then if you become "CONVINCED" that you what to "INVEST" in the "BEST" They can order a "CUSTOM" bow made by Black Widow. Personally I love My Martin Hunter and it's Daddy the Damon Howatt Hunter. I can see no reason to spend the extra money for a Black Widow. To each his own!

Brownie

I've been shooting a Martin X200 for about 2.5 years and recently ordered a BW TFII as my 2nd bow (thanks to my wife for a wonderful birthday surprise!!).  I contemplated ordering either the TFII or the Martin Dreamcatcher but stuck with the widow after seeing a TFIII at a 3d recently and instantly falling in love.  Nothing against the Martin bows, they are awesome (especially the Hunter - super fast) but seeing a black widow in action did it for me.  The bows look nice, they shoot nice, the owners LOVE them, and they come with great customer service.  I didn't mind forking over the extra dough (or letting my wife fork over the dough!) for that kind of product, whether it's a $1000 bow, a $50,000 car, or a $500,000 home.  What people do with their hard-earned money is their business.

At the 3d i mentioned above, there was an older gentleman shooting a TF one piece that seemed to be having a great time (even if he missed) UNTIL some a-hole began trying to diminish the value of BW in front of other archers.  The obnoxious guy was adamant about his bow being a "better" bow (whatever that meant) because it was cheaper and faster.  While the BW owner refused the other archer's shooting challenges and attempted to ignore him, the other guy kept shooting arrows at a hay bale, proclaiming his "smart" choice not to buy a BW, but whatever bow he had.  A better bow?  Maybe.  A better archer?  Never.  The guy's attitude was so far removed from the material i've read concerning archery that it made me feel embarrased for him.  Some people might get a thrill from putting others down bc. of the equipment they use but the real thrill should come from knowing that you're shooting the best bow for YOU, and having a great time doing so.  And, even though the obnoxious shooter did have great arrow flight and a nice looking bow, it seemed that he was more concerned (and perhaps jealous?) about someone else's bow and shooting other than his own - What's so fun or exciting about that? 

Now, i'm not an incredible shooter (yet) but i LOVE archery.  That should be enough right? 

 

i dropped mt BW out of a tree stand when it hit it came unstrung and leaped almost all the way back up to me. that was 2 years and thousands of arrows ago.

CaliWidow:

Yep, some guys are just plain nuts.  But really, a lot of bows are really rugged - but argueing along those lines is a bit unproductive.  Just remember that a really top archer will likely shoot his bow better than you shoot yours.  And he will also likely be able to shoot your bow better than you.  Not sure what that proves though.

..That he is a better shot than you.........

If you have a spare bow, then you may not need a Widow. I want a bow that won't blow up a week before hunting season. The MA series are the best shooters and bomb proof.

Excellent bows who is with me

Wow! 10 year old thread. The second year of my retirement.

Not as tough as al-U-minium risers.

I've owned a bunch of B/W bows and I have one in particular that I dropped out of my tree stand and watched it bounce tip to tip down the mountain, but it survived and then a couple of yrs ago I was shooting this bow in a indoor competition and had a nock explode in my face upon release. Again it survived so is it rugged? You decide.

Regards, Grouse

I crushed the edge of a limb , maybe 1/4 inch . Covered w/ Super Glue and have shot a thousand arrows w/o problems . I'd say very tough and that is a 14 yr old bow .

Never owned or shot one, stopped in one time just to lookie see when I was in the neighborhood, nice folks.

Was at a 3d shoot once, there was a guy about 65 or so shooting a widow was shooting from the compound stakes and givin em what for, he finished in the top 10.

they may well be great bows but I am unable to see my way to more than 500-700 for a bow, it took me a year to save for a Tolke whip 2 years ago.

I've got a 25 year old one pc. hangin in the basement, dont shoot it much, but when I do, she still throws em with the best of em ....They're "purdy sturdy" !!

I saw a pic of Bowdoc torturing a Kodiak Hunter limb worse than that! Just as " tuff " and NOT plywood !

My widow psaII is pretty tough. I goofed up last and shut in the car door. Put a couple dings in both sides a milk spots in the glass. Almost cried. Till drank a couple to calm down and sent 100 arrows though it to test. Nothing wrong with it. Just cosmetic.

Blast from the past, they are still just a stuff as ever.

SB, bear also makes plywwod bows, jusy an FYI.

My 60" SAIII was well used by it's previous owner since it was built in 1995. He told me the bow had been through more than I would care to imagine and had taken countless deer, elk, turkey. It looks 90-95% handled condition and shoots great compared to the few bows I can compare it to as a newb. I also (like grouseshooter002 above) recently had a nock explode in my face causing a dry fire and I see no effect, have shot it several times since. It is quiet only putting out a little "thud" and is certainly the most "forgiving" (see other recent thread)trad bow I have tried although again my experience is limited. I wanted a Super Kodiak or Kodiak hunter, hell I still want both even though it is likely that the the shooting experience from either may match it at best.

Another old thread, but good that people still use the search button every now and then.

The Black Widow has a long history so any criticism of the bow, other than fit, doesn't make any sense. And, there are many others still going from the old days that have stood the test of time. Shows you how good some of those old bowyers/manufacturers really were.

I own 3 of them.

Have owned , traded, shot a ton of different bows. Can miss with any of them. Reciently sold a Morrison Longbow that shot excellent just because the carbon on both sides of the limbs did not look woody enough. Bought almost all the bows used. Now have setteled on a PSAV 49# and a PSAX 45# [ the ironwood and Olive Ash look BEAUTIFUL to me] and that seems to fill my need of recurves. Have never liked the widow long bows, to me a Hummingbird 3 piece longbow fits me best. By the way, the laminated and epoxy impregnated birch wood seems to be the most stable riser material since metal. One opinion, Roy

I have been shooting a PSAV Ironwood bow for 5 years now. I also had a nock break on me and dry fired the bow. Scared me to death! but no damage at all and have shot hundreds of arrows from it since. Great bows! I will always own a Black widow.

So there you have it. Tuff bows that blow nocks. Seriously though today I got out both the Hoyt pro hunter and the Widow. I had been messing with the Hoyt for two weeks and now I shot them back to back. There simply is no comparison, the Widow is far superior in my opinion. The grip is outstanding, the draw is butter, the release cycle is so soft it seems like it would be slow but it isn't. The best part is really the weight and balance of it. Some may not like that weight to hike/hunt. I just feel lucky that I got it first or I may have never gotten one at all. I still want other bows and can appreciate each ones personality.

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