I've been a cedar man long time, still love em! But, in last 2 stumping trips,I've broken 5 shafts. I'm considering trying Doug Fir, and my first question is for an estimated answer? Most my cedars, 50/55# spine, cut 30", average finished arrow with 125gr point, I'd say average 515grs aorox. How much more will Doug Fir, same length, spine, point weight weigh?? And for those who've used both, are they much tougher really, and who really likes them more, and any other +'s to trying Doug Fir???

I can't find good cedar anymore so I switched to doug fir three years ago. I buy my shafts from Surewood in Oregon. Best wood I've ever used, straight, tight grain, no run out, and look great when stained & sealed. In the spine range you mentioned, the average weight of a full length raw shaft is about 420- 430 gr. When it comes to toughness it's very subjective, but when out stumping I would break a fair amount of cedars on hard hits. Since switching to doug fir, I've broken only one in three years. The only downside to doug fir is point and nock tapering. It's not as soft as cedar, and the handheld pencil sharpener type taper tools tend to shred the wood instead of shaving it like cedar. I use a jig with a disk sander, which works very well. Give doug fir a try, I doubt you'll be disappointed.

I like and use Doug fir a lot. I enjoy working with POC and like to taper them when I get time. They are a very good arrow, but they are not as tough as Doug fir, especially for rough use like stumping. My experience is they will take significant more abuse than cedars, and rarely snap behind the point. They are heavier, maybe not quite as easy to straighten, and don't smell good when you break them!

It is easier to get the heavy spine weights in 11/32 in fir, but that may not be that big of issue. While you can get some lighter weights in fir, they will generally be heavier. A hundred bulk in 60-65 lb. uncut at 32" averaged about 450-460 when I sorted them this winter. So you might be pushing 575 to 600 grains with your set-up, unless you specify light grain weight when you order. Some of the arrow makers on here can give you more precise weights than my estimate.

Like bows, horses, and dogs, I never saw arrow wood I didn't like. Short version: Fir is heavier but tougher than cedar. Try a dozen. I'm thinking you'd like them.

I switched from Cedar to Sitka Spruce when Hildebrands was still open for business. They were stronger than cedar and lighter weight. Since I have switched to Doug Fir from Surewood, but buy them from a small vendor at our 3d shoots. I go through his stock and find the lightest weight raw shafts he has. They are definitely stronger than cedar, but yes a little heavier, but I also switched from 11/32 to 5/16 shafts to help with that.

I've been mainly a POC guy for a while now. I've never had any issues with the shafts I get from Lost Nation.

But I did try some Surewood douglas fir recently and they are fine shafts and heavier than POC. But I don't usually take either of them stumping. For that I break out my ash arrows. They are almost indestructable and a good bit heavier than either of the other two. I wish I could locate a current source for ash shafts.

You should be perfectly happy with the Surewood shafts. I am. Don't know how they might hold up to your stumping environment.

If you have the ability to mill your own shafts, you can find quality Doug Fir boards with perfectly straight grain at many lumber & home stores. After turning several sets of shafts, you’ll develop a feeling for the spine by how heavy the boards are.....light boards for lighter spines, and heavier boards for stiffer spines. I’ve made hundreds of great Doug Fir arrows from lumber purchased from the big box stores. All you need ( in my case) is a stationary router table and a simple dowel making jig. I have the plans for making the jig if you are interested. Good luck! Richard

I have some 50/55 doug fir arrows that are 29". With 125 grain point they weigh an average of 478 grains. I like Doug Fir quite a bit. It is noticeably tougher than cedar and every batch of shafts I've got from sure wood have shown up remarkably straight.

X2 on the toughness of ash! I believe they are even tougher than carbon for stumping, but I can't seem to find a good source for tail tapered ash anymore so I have been shooting Doug fir and carbon the last few years.

with your ASL you will not even note the weight difference after a few shots

and as far as toughness stumping you will be well pleased

I find them to hold up very well

Sherwood has always sent me good stuff

In fact they do better than aluminum for me

and way better than carbons (I found nocks hard to keep in carbons after a few impacts due to micro crackding of the nock end and yes I footed them -I'm a serious stumper and don't just shoot leafs and tuffs of grass

live tree with a stick laying in the crotch

I believe I'll try em next shafts I order. I've been stumping with wood for years, and most of that was ground shots, leaves, ferns, etc, and the occasional for sure rotten stump! Since I've gotten back into bowhunting serious, and an asl, I've been bearing down on stumps a lot, especially lately turkey scouting, cause their just so much better practice for deer and such. This morning I shot a lot, and some stumps will fool ya, almost petrified! Actually I'd be pleased with an arrow around 575gr, that give me a little over 12grpp, where as I've been probably less than 11grpp. When I shot my other bows, 50-55#, I still had some Chundoo for them. I've still found cedar pretty tough, often bouncing back on impact, but this morning I broke 3. Few days ago i broke 2. Believe DF may please me well! Thanks a heap everyone!!

hollowed out hard as rock tree

some dead dried out trees (cedar especially) will break anything

BEARCURVE?? While Duggy Fur is an excellent arrow wood, You may need something tougher? Ash and hickory might be a good test or Chundoo (lodgepole) If Ken Forrester is still around maybe some kind of MAPLE?? Pls TRY to get some kind of test kits before You go ALL OUT! GOOD HUNTING & BLESSED BE!

No doubt that any arrow can and will break depending on what you hit and how. But the first ash shafts I ever got were from a place called Silent Pond and Madbury Arrow Works. They had a video where they shot an ash arrow into a concrete wall and no harm was done to it. I tried at home just for giggles and got the same results.

Maybe most of you know this but a good way to help prevent damage to the foot of the arrow is to make sure the points are fully seated and glued well. This is to avoid the point moving on impact which contributes to possibly splitting or other damage at the foot. It won't eliminate it but it will sure cut down how often it happens.

If Bill Carlisle is still around he can confirm the test Silent Pond did.

Shot Doug firs for years and then switched over to spruce!

I just weighed up some doug for this morning. 28” to bop and 160 grain field point cones in st 566…..

I agree that the ASH that I got form Silent Pond were the toughest shafts I ever had =-infact I had to drill through the judo point and shaft and rivit with a finishing nail to keep the points on

otherwise the impact would break the hot melt bond

the negative I had with them was the need for continual straightening very rarely would I break one

Bobbinhood - where are you getting your sitka spruce? I can't find a place that has any in stock.

MacLean, I just bought 2 dozen Sitka spruce shafts from Raptor Archery.

Thanks TC, I'll check it out.

I switched over to Douglas fir about 20 years ago. It's heavier than Port Orford Cedar, but MUCH more durable. Never looked back.

I commonly hunt with bows in the 50 to 55# range with 600 to 620 grain arrows. Full pass-throughs are not uncommon. Keep the broaheads sharp and a tapered shaft doesn't hurt.

If you call Carson at Surewood and ask specifically for the lighter grain weights in the spine you need, he will help you out. Honestly though, the weight difference probably won’t be enough to notice when shooting at hunting distances.

I'm gonna try DF. Sounds like they're the best compromise for a best all around arrow! That's what I'm looking for, not just the toughest so I'd be wise to try em. None are indestructible, and once I make an arrow I'm not gonna like having to restaighten. I know from experience Chundoo is great, but it seems they're in short supply, so not going down that road. Won't mind an occasional broken arrow, and DF gonna give me IMO, that best hunting weight, somewhere near 12grpp +- little! And I want one shafts material to stay with! Cedar a good choice, but DF maybe better!

Get the premium shafts with the tail taper. Best combination of strength and lighter weight. I don't recommend the hunter grade, not impressed with the strength of those. Talk to the guy at Surewood, he may be able to send the shaft weight you want. My last set of Surewood shaft arrows came out to 490 grains, that is @ 28" BOP, with 125 gr points

I've never used tapered shafts, but a weight reduction is an attribute I hadn't considered! Any other real advantages of tapered? Will 50-55# spine tapered shoot aprox same as the same spine in parallel, as a general rule??

SS Site states the tapered are 32" and it doesn't mention cut to length as an option. Will he cut these to 30" or best to just stay with full length?

Their Point and Nock Tapering Service seems to now be a separate product you will need to add to your cart.

BTW... almost all of my stumping Cedars have broken off just behind the head and have all been repaired with Reparrows. Has not happened to me with a Doug Fir yet, and the Cedars footed with Reparrows have never broken yet. I like the toughness and weight of Doug Fir, but prefer the finer grain and (to me) more pleasing recovery of Cedars. Been buying all mine from Surewood & Wapiti - and all tapered from both suppliers. If you'd like I can compare weight on a set of my Cedars vs Firs for reference, but it sounds as if you've already made up your mind.

Yeah, I'm gonna try DF from SS. I must admit I had considered Tapered, but I'm still up in air on that? I must admit tho, in an asl not cut to center, a tapered shafts makes a lotta sense!

There isn't any down side to barrel or nock tapered shafts at all.

Sure makes sense! Since I'm hanging wood, now good time as any to try em!

I fletch with a JoJan Fletcher, a significant amount of helical. Any problems changing to a tapered shafts there, the tail being only I think 5/16"??

Once I tried tail tapered shafts I never looked back. There is only a slight reduction in weight, but the big advantage is arrow flight. With a taper, the arrow recovers from the archers paradox faster and retains more of its energy downrange. They fly like darts. I like the process of making wood arrows, so I made a jig and tail taper the shafts myself. When it comes to fletching those shafts, I too use a JoJan with a good amount of helical. Zero problems fletching a tapered shaft. If you're looking to save a little weight, Carson is expanding his selection of 5/16 parallel shafts in low to mid weight spines.

You just have to make sure you get good contact between the feather base an shaft like with any other shaft.

5/16" isn't that small and folks been fletching them with helical feathers for years and years.

I fletch 5/16 with the Gierbhart (predecessor to JoJan) without a problem.

David, I agree with what has already been said. It’s worth the extra money to get them cut to proper length and with tail and point tapers done. I still break them stumping, but they are definitely more durable than cedars

The weight is not gonna be a problem, probably a benefit! I was just considering all changes, but the benefits of a tail taper sound worth it! For instance in my 53-55# bows I used to shoot, I shot arrows usually, best my memory. around 575-600grs, but some my best Chundoo 70-75# spine I believe where near 675grs, and it didn't make much difference! Weight change is something I'll quickly adjust too!

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