So.......the debate on modern strings damaging old bows goes on. What are your thoughts on this?

And this?

That’s the worst I’ve seen, no matter what caused it.

Not sure if its the string.The bow is 60 years old.The Warranty is over thats for sure.Thiers different opinions on the FF vs dacron string thing as far as negative effects or longevity goes in regard to older Vintage bows.Might be the strings used.Might not be.I have seen no scientific studies on it.

You may also have a few or many dry fire issues with some of these older bows that have comprimised them.

B-50 might be friendlier?As the limbs dont come to a dead stop like a car running into a cement wall thats gets totaled.Some will say the dead stop is friendlier as the limbs stop vibrating sooner.Like I said no scientific evidence.So its speculative and subjective.

I think if I used the no stretch no creep strings on old bows I would definatly pad the loops with many strands of B-50.Even if it made for an overly fat loop.

Nemah, I'll answer your question with a question. What do you think caused this? 1959 Kodiak.

The answer is... a broken nock on an arrow resulting in the arrow falling off the bow upon release, and a dry fire.

The string was thick Flemish twist B55.

I would say an additional cause is that the tips on these bows are extremely narrow. There isn't much there to keep the string, any string, from going through the the material.

The paper micarta tip overlays didn't do much to reinforce those tips either.

Whenever a bow gets damaged with a low stretch string it invariably gets the blame.

We can see in this thread that bow tips can get shattered with a B-50.

bowhunt stated it perfectly. We cannot know what a 60-year old bow has been subjected to in its life.

The uncontroverted evidence that all sorts of people are using low stretch strings with zero issues on hundreds of bows with tens of thousands of shots through them over many years does not seem to sway the opinion of people who have decided that the string is at fault.

bowhunt, Well said.

A dry fire has killed many a good bow no doubt over the years.New, and old bows, and no matter what string material used. It is a choice as to what string material you shoot on a certain bow.For me when I shoot a skinny FF string on a vintage bow I invariably install micarta tip over lays on the bow,and make sure I have the right nock fit. Just my opinion ,but any thing less than that you are entering at your own risk.

I had one of the new ones do something similar, limb split a little lower down. Hard to eat $600 bucks but warranty was out. I only use dacron strings on Bear's that's the only failure I've ever had. Sorry for your loss I know it stinks.

The only time this has happened to me was a bow with phenolic tips and a low stretch string.

MP

BIG BEAR, that also has been answered many times hear, and to start you have to stop believing all the negative stuff about low stretch and look at what they do analytically. No one thinks through things anymore, they look for an answer on the internet, and it doesn't matter what the answer is or who gives it.

Low stretch strings do not completely stop on the shot, there is some give...that's why they are called low stretch. Benefits can vary and far outweight then negative aspects. Less vibration through the bow means actually less time for the limbs to remain in contact with the string. Enhanced performance because the arrow gets off the string quicker and at an accellerated pace. That allows for use of heavier arrows and an advantage that otherwise would take a heavier bow. And that bow in the photo had an issue that allowed the string to penetrate a longitudinal crack in the glass. Even without a dry fire it will eventually get in that crack and create a broken limb.

Now, here is the fact: I've used them now for over ten years on all of my old bows with no failures....and no marks of any kind on the bow tips to show I even use low stretch. I shoot a stiffer spine with heavier mass from the same bow weights, which is a big advantage to those of use who don't shoot bows over 50#.

Now I know not one word of what I said matters to people who are stuck on the "fast flight is bad" mode, but my experience comes from experience, and not someone's opinion who has never shot a FF string on an old bow, but rather gets their advice from Dear Abby on the net. Okay, I'm done now. :) Carry on.

I've seen the split down maybe MORE often on old bows using dacron than any with low stretch strings to believe it is a string problem, rather than a dry fire. Whether deliberate as a kid playing Robinhood when Dad wasn't looking, or accidental via a slipped off arrow or broken nock.

The complication is that the actual accident might have happened decades ago, but the tip hung together for some time before finally giving up.

Decent overlays that spread the loop's pressure across the entire tip instead of just down the nock grooves WILL lessen the probability of a dry fire split-down.

But in the end, I and so many others have used padded loop low stretch strings without issue not to conclude such failures have the root cause of some variation of dry fire abuse.

RickR

BIG BEAR, I'm sending a PM to you.

Padded loops is the answer I believe. I use them also but with padded loops.

Another thing is I'm not shooting a classic hundreds of shots either only a custom and only because the customs are built for this.

My skinny tip classics are not regardless of what string is on them.

You can put a bikini on a 50 or 60 year old and she can fly but underneath she is still old and she might get tired and breakdown? LOL

I don't have any skinny tipped old bows, that trend ended once manufacturers started selling en masse, sometimes up to 30,000 or more each year of one model. That volume negated a lot of 'cutcherin with limb tips and other fancy things and led to a more utility design that was quicker to turn out and less likely to be a fatality.

If you are shooting fast flight on vintage bows, do you use padded string loops and why?

I shoot fast flight on my new recurve (Galaxy Ember) and non-ff on my 70's Kodiak Magnum. I've heard I can shoot fast flight on the K Mag if I pad the loops. Wouldn't padding the loops negate the benefits of using fast flight?

I really, really love my K Mag as it's the first "traditional" bow I killed a buck with and would be beside myself if I totaled it.

I honestly don't care if someone wants to string their bow up with piano wire and let it rip. I'm just trying to figure out why there is so much difference of opinion on the subject. If manufacturers, bowyers and string makers are worried about fast flight versus non on bows, why are they? Wives tale or truth somewhere along the line?

Thoughts?

Many guys do with success.Padded loops for nock fit, and maybe a little cushion.A lot of guys shoot padded loop FF strings on their Kmags. Will not negate the benefits of using FF string using padded loops.If you are that concerned about using a padded loop FFstring on your Kmag tie a 10 strand B55 string for it.Opinions are like a$$h$$$$, and every body has one. What may seem to be fact to some may be a wives tale to others.It's a mental thing.

Nemah that was clearly caused by material failure.

Is there a prize involved?

DDave

Low stretch, B50/B55, or what ever it is your choice. Your bow your choice.

Would this be considered a skinny tip? 15 strand skinny with 33 strand in the loops.

Oopps,,'69 Necedah

Frank, the blood has got to be rushing to your head? Sleep uphill man!

the Earth was flat for Century's but eventually people came around:)

the paper micarta tips on the 59s were notorious for tip issues and were changed in 60' so its hard to make generalizations.Id never use FF on an original 59 but I would on a 60'

Good point 4nolz, there's dozens of threads where folks picked up a '59 and the first thing they did was to put new tips on 'em.

The deep, full cut Y shaped string grooves that go all the way through the fiberglass (like the early Bears had, as well as other bows of that era) really reduce the strength of a bow tip.

The best way to do a full Y string groove is to put a belly overlay on the tip, and then don't cut all the way through the belly fiberglass (similar to a Howatt bow tip).

Even though any bow can break when dry fired (regardless of the string type used), I personally wouldn't recommend using FF strings on bows that have deep cut Y shaped string grooves on the belly like the ones shown above.

Here's some tips I redid on a 59 grizzly,,,the old ones came off easily,...I put two laminations of Osage and the bow shoots lights out...I'm glad I did she's a shooter and I still hunt it...

One point,, over time like said the original paper micarta style tips popped off with just a flick of a finger nail..they lasted 50+- years and were the materials of the time...

Coat with super glue and wrap with binding twine. Sorry for your loss. >>>>------> Ken

What Brandon said x 2

This is a skinny tip. And it's a 1960 Kodiak, not a 59. Fiberglass tips. Same thing happened to it as with a 59, upon a dry fire from a broken nock.

I've shot 1960 Kodiaks and other 1960 Bear bows with similar skinny tips 10s of thousands of times with low stretch strings. They are the same size as B50 strings, Flemish twist. This is the first time I had a problem with the tip on one of these bows. And it wasn't because of the string. It was from a dry fire... and as Brandon said, b/c the tips are very small and not well reinforced.

What Brandon said X3.

I'm afraid after looking at it,?.unless you laminated , clamped and glued some overlays front and back and made your own static tip design would be my only guess n making it safe...

I was fortunate to receive the damaged 59 Kodiak from a fellow Leatherwaller. I have no clue how the tip was damaged. I used it to make a new form so I can make a few of the slinky 59'rs for some close friends. I never thought about trying to repair the damaged tip......a little over my pay grade. Anyone want to take on that job? Richard

Nope I don't want to tackle fixing it. Lamp :-) Awesome that you got a form built for your new rendition.JF

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