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Stickbow.com's "LeatherWall" Traditional Archery Discussion Forum
Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Best traditional shooter of all time

Messages posted to thread:
Babysaph 19-Jan-20
Bowmania 19-Jan-20
George D. Stout 19-Jan-20
Trad Rick 19-Jan-20
Babysaph 19-Jan-20
Babysaph 19-Jan-20
GLF 19-Jan-20
Frisky 19-Jan-20
Phil 19-Jan-20
Nemophilist 19-Jan-20
Don 19-Jan-20
Phil 19-Jan-20
Don 19-Jan-20
Bobmeister 19-Jan-20
George D. Stout 19-Jan-20
JDBerry 19-Jan-20
George D. Stout 19-Jan-20
WalnutBill 19-Jan-20
olddogrib 19-Jan-20
Nemophilist 19-Jan-20
David McLendon 19-Jan-20
2 bears 19-Jan-20
larryhatfield 19-Jan-20
Nemophilist 19-Jan-20
PECO 19-Jan-20
bigdog21 19-Jan-20
DanaC 19-Jan-20
Claymore 19-Jan-20
Mike Walker 19-Jan-20
Darryl Payne 19-Jan-20
Therifleman 19-Jan-20
mgerard 19-Jan-20
Claymore 19-Jan-20
MikeT 19-Jan-20
2 bears 19-Jan-20
moleman 1 19-Jan-20
deerhunt51 19-Jan-20
Pdiddly 19-Jan-20
Nemophilist 19-Jan-20
RonL 19-Jan-20
Deno 19-Jan-20
papadeerhtr 19-Jan-20
Jim Davis 19-Jan-20
babysaph 19-Jan-20
babysaph 19-Jan-20
babysaph 19-Jan-20
lost run 19-Jan-20
babysaph 19-Jan-20
babysaph 19-Jan-20
babysaph 19-Jan-20
babysaph 19-Jan-20
Babbling Bob 19-Jan-20
Babbling Bob 19-Jan-20
RonL 19-Jan-20
David McLendon 19-Jan-20
3Ditional 19-Jan-20
longbowguy 19-Jan-20
longbowguy 19-Jan-20
Simple Archer 19-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 19-Jan-20
Boker 19-Jan-20
AspirinBuster 20-Jan-20
ca 20-Jan-20
shandorweiss 20-Jan-20
deerhunt51 20-Jan-20
r.grider 20-Jan-20
Nemophilist 20-Jan-20
hawkeye in PA 20-Jan-20
Greyfox 20-Jan-20
Zildjian51 20-Jan-20
Eric Krewson 20-Jan-20
Will tell 20-Jan-20
Will tell 20-Jan-20
fdp 20-Jan-20
AspirinBuster 20-Jan-20
Wayne Hess 20-Jan-20
oletrapper 20-Jan-20
RymanCat 20-Jan-20
6-GOLD 20-Jan-20
Yeller 20-Jan-20
Mike E 20-Jan-20
Mtquiver 20-Jan-20
Douglas Tubbs 20-Jan-20
Therifleman 20-Jan-20
Therifleman 20-Jan-20
Frisky 20-Jan-20
Mike Burch 20-Jan-20
hawkeye in PA 20-Jan-20
Will tell 20-Jan-20
babysaph 20-Jan-20
babysaph 20-Jan-20
kaw369 20-Jan-20
lamb 20-Jan-20
lost run 20-Jan-20
Andy Man 20-Jan-20
Silverback 20-Jan-20
Babysaph 20-Jan-20
Zbone 20-Jan-20
Iron ranger 20-Jan-20
Greyfox 21-Jan-20
bowhunt 21-Jan-20
GUTPILE PA 21-Jan-20
Supernaut 21-Jan-20
Missouribreaks 21-Jan-20
Jim 21-Jan-20
Smokedinpa 21-Jan-20
Eric Lechleitner 21-Jan-20
Jon Stewart 21-Jan-20
NOVA7 21-Jan-20
NOVA7 21-Jan-20
Frisky 21-Jan-20
Backcountry 21-Jan-20
D.Lewis aka tonto59 21-Jan-20
Lost arrow 21-Jan-20
Frisky 21-Jan-20
Draven 22-Jan-20
Babysaph 22-Jan-20
buci 313 22-Jan-20
TrapperKayak 22-Jan-20
Will tell 22-Jan-20
Ron LaClair 22-Jan-20
Iowacedarshooter 22-Jan-20
RD 22-Jan-20
Tim Finley 22-Jan-20
Babysaph 22-Jan-20
Two Feathers 22-Jan-20
PaPa Doc 22-Jan-20
Curlis 23-Jan-20
Greyfox 23-Jan-20
ground hunter 23-Jan-20
Frisky 23-Jan-20
Lost arrow 23-Jan-20
buster v davenport 23-Jan-20
StikBow 23-Jan-20
Frisky 23-Jan-20
AspirinBuster 23-Jan-20
AspirinBuster 23-Jan-20
larryhatfield 23-Jan-20
Zbone 24-Jan-20
bowhunt 24-Jan-20
Frisky 24-Jan-20
Zbone 24-Jan-20
Curtis Schaffhauser 24-Jan-20
Liquid Amber 24-Jan-20
Babysaph 24-Jan-20
Elkpacker1 24-Jan-20
David A. 24-Jan-20
Greyfox 24-Jan-20
Babysaph 24-Jan-20
D.Lewis aka tonto59 24-Jan-20
David A. 24-Jan-20
ScoutII 24-Jan-20
Okaw 24-Jan-20
Silverback 24-Jan-20
Mike E 24-Jan-20
Greyfox 24-Jan-20
David A. 25-Jan-20
Phil 25-Jan-20
Iwander 25-Jan-20
Iwander 25-Jan-20
Iwander 25-Jan-20
Iwander 25-Jan-20
Iwander 25-Jan-20
Iwander 25-Jan-20
AspirinBuster 25-Jan-20
ottertails 25-Jan-20
DanaC 25-Jan-20
Mike E 25-Jan-20
David A. 25-Jan-20
Flyman 25-Jan-20
fdp 25-Jan-20
Zbone 25-Jan-20
reddogge 25-Jan-20
Babysaph 25-Jan-20
Babysaph 25-Jan-20
9/10 Broke 25-Jan-20
David A. 25-Jan-20
Babysaph 25-Jan-20
bowhunt 25-Jan-20
Iwander 26-Jan-20
Iwander 26-Jan-20
Iwander 26-Jan-20
Iwander 26-Jan-20
Iwander 26-Jan-20
Wapiti - - M. S. 26-Jan-20
The Whittler 26-Jan-20
Sunset Hill 27-Jan-20
SeminoleBob 27-Jan-20
David A. 27-Jan-20
Babysaph 27-Jan-20
Babysaph 27-Jan-20
Sunset Hill 27-Jan-20
Saphead 27-Jan-20
babysaph 27-Jan-20
Sunset Hill 27-Jan-20
long bow 16-Sep-20
Desperado 17-Sep-20
Kelly 17-Sep-20
Terry thoreson 17-Sep-20
Terry thoreson 17-Sep-20
SteveD 17-Sep-20
aromakr 17-Sep-20
Tundra 17-Sep-20
RymanCat 17-Sep-20
Stan 17-Sep-20
Ron LaClair 17-Sep-20
Verdeburl 17-Sep-20
Verdeburl 17-Sep-20
sagebrush 17-Sep-20
Ollie 17-Sep-20
From: Babysaph
Date: 19-Jan-20




Who do you guys think was or is the best traditional shooter of all time.,someone that shoots split finger and not crawling the string or string walking or any of that stuff? I'd say from what I hear it would have been Paul Schafer

From: Bowmania Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 19-Jan-20




How many movies did Paul work on???

Bowmania

From: George D. Stout
Date: 19-Jan-20




There were many great shooters before the new age folks decided it wasn't proper to shoot over 17 yards. ;) The best I ever say, and shot with was Rodney Hoover. He didn't string walk and used one anchor split finger. He shot as high as a 548 once on a 560 possible field round, and averaged over 500, and that was on the 5-4-3 scoring. Field archery was 28 targets from 20ft to 80 yards, 4 arrows per target.

Not sure why someone had to be in the movies Todd. ;)

From: Trad Rick
Date: 19-Jan-20




As much as I like Fred Bear, Paul was absolutely a better. So I would have to agree with you Babysaph.

From: Babysaph
Date: 19-Jan-20




Don't know bowmania

From: Babysaph
Date: 19-Jan-20




That is incredible George. Those are the guys I would like to see shoot

From: GLF
Date: 19-Jan-20




3under has been around as long as archery so why is the english hold the only traditional one?

From: Frisky
Date: 19-Jan-20




The most impressive I've seen, in the US, were the Wilhelm brothers. For fame, it would have to be Howard Hill.

Joe

From: Phil
Date: 19-Jan-20




Frank Bilson .....

York Round score @ Royal Toxophilite Society July 18th 1951

143 hits ... 26 Golds TOTAL SCORE 813

If you think its no big deal ... give it a try with an all wooden ELB and wooden arrows

From: Nemophilist
Date: 19-Jan-20




WOW ! That's like asking which recurve or longbow is the best one.

From: Don
Date: 19-Jan-20




You guys have heard of Howard Hill right?

From: Phil
Date: 19-Jan-20




Don ... you heard of Horace Ford right?

From: Don
Date: 19-Jan-20




Howard Hill actually shot the extras in the Robin Hood movie. They trusted their life to him

From: Bobmeister
Date: 19-Jan-20




Otzi or Ishi or someone like them that hunted to survive.

From: George D. Stout
Date: 19-Jan-20




It was a movie Don. If you want to see old time shooting, go to youtube and look for the Wilhelm Brothers. No question Hill was one of the best.....of his time.

From: JDBerry
Date: 19-Jan-20




For me its ..Ken Wilheim

From: George D. Stout
Date: 19-Jan-20




From: WalnutBill
Date: 19-Jan-20




My vote would go to Byron Ferguson. It's hard to believe what he can do with a bow and arrow.

From: olddogrib
Date: 19-Jan-20




Thanks, never saw an arrow basically shot that accurately from the hip...so much for the mandatory bone on bone anchor requirement!

From: Nemophilist
Date: 19-Jan-20




George it was a movie but Howard Hill actually shot at real people.

"Howard Hill also did all the shots which required hitting human targets. The stunt performers wore heavy padding underneath a steel breastplate overlaid with some balsa wood to absorb the impact of arrows and each stunt performer was paid $150 per arrow every time they were shot. Can you image being one of these stuntmen waiting to get shot by a real arrow at real speed? It was a bit of a relief to know that Hill never missed. He was so concerned about authenticity that he also worked closely with the sound department to produce the distinctive arrow sounds by using specially made arrows." http://brothers-ink.com/2015/12/howard-hill-and-stunt-performers-for-the-adventures-of-robin-hood/

From: David McLendon
Date: 19-Jan-20




Paul Schafer was one of if not the greatest traditional hunter ever, but he didn't compete in target archery, make movies or shoot pain pills. But to me and for what I value, he is the one, and it's a shame that he's not still around.

From: 2 bears
Date: 19-Jan-20




Howard Hill was the best I have see personally. Others have fantastic reputations and videos also. >>>>-----> Ken

From: larryhatfield
Date: 19-Jan-20




Walt and Ken are "real people" also. I have a cd of all of Wilhelms movie shorts. When you do a frame by frame of Ken shooting the collar button off Walts head, you can see that the arrow was in Walts hair, and one of the feathers drags the button off of Walts head. Thats why the button sort of falls down the front of Walt's face. Don't think Ken ever had to take a back seat to Hill shooting at anything.

From: Nemophilist
Date: 19-Jan-20




Check out this Howard Hill video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo8UZneuggE

From: PECO
Date: 19-Jan-20




The best shooter, actually only known shooter I ever say, was Byron Ferguson.

From: bigdog21
Date: 19-Jan-20




From: DanaC
Date: 19-Jan-20




OP, WADR your definition of 'traditional' is totally bogus.

Sick and effin' tired of people DICKtating how the bow MUST be shot.

And yeah if this topic gets yanked I will rejoice.

From: Claymore
Date: 19-Jan-20




Ron Laclair

From: Mike Walker
Date: 19-Jan-20




Paul Schafer in my mind and from what I've been told by friends that shot with him.

From: Darryl Payne
Date: 19-Jan-20




Ann Hoyt. Look up the records and yes she did shoot for many years with out a sight and split fingers

From: Therifleman
Date: 19-Jan-20




DanaC--- good post. OP should probably spend a little time reading the Wensel article " there's no shame in aiming". In that article Paul's style was described as using a high anchor and using the tip of his arrow to aim. The OP i believe would count these as " that stuff". I don't doubt that some folks are excellent " instinctive shots". In all the shoots i hit each year in ohio and Indiana i can think of only a couple guys that were truly gifted at " not using any of that stuff" as the OP alluded. The guys winning are the guys who have developed solid form and a solid aiming system. I too get tired of the whining regarding how others shoot their bow. Its interesting--- if you're not shooting well, no one cares how you approach the shot, but start to win consistently and you'll have many critics. Shoot however makes you happy.

From: mgerard Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 19-Jan-20




Not Ron LeClair. I personally saw Tom Parsons spank him on the 3D course at Compton's. Ron did outshoot me, so yes, he is good. :>)

From: Claymore
Date: 19-Jan-20




We all have bad days so Ron is allowed one.

From: MikeT
Date: 19-Jan-20




For me it was the archer that lit the Olympic Games Tourch with a flaming arrow some years back. No idea who that was but it was the coolest thing Ive ever seen. :)

From: 2 bears
Date: 19-Jan-20




I think you are right Larry. I wasn't fortunate enough to meet the Wilhelms though. Did they compete in field archery? I am not sure I have even heard of them hunting but have see trick shot videos. They were awesome. >>>>------> Ken

From: moleman 1
Date: 19-Jan-20




The names of those above we're and are great shooters indeed but there also the closet archers who never get mentioned. At many a local and no so local shoots I and others have had our butts wrapped and handed to us by some mighty good and solid shooters. They were hunters and shooters who flew below the radar, that never expected or strived for accalades but we're gifted shooters nonetheless.

From: deerhunt51
Date: 19-Jan-20




Howard Hill, not even a close second. Howard won over 160 field archery compations. Every one he entered.

From: Pdiddly
Date: 19-Jan-20




100% agree with the Wilhem brothers...especially since Walt shot so accurately from the hip, overcoming a significant challenge after his accident.

As Larry pointed out, Ken's shots were PERFECT,as they had to be...his brother's well being was on the line.

2bears...they did hunt...a lot. I have read several accounts of their hunting exploits, including one after a nuisance bear in Canada. Very entertaining, yet modest in their presentation.

Two true gentleman whose skill was unquestionable.

From: Nemophilist
Date: 19-Jan-20




Howard Hill and archery….

1– Shot exhibitions in 3 world’s fairs.

2– Produced 23 short subjects for Warner Brothers.

3– Filmed “Tembo” in Africa–was shown in 57 countries and in seven different languages–RKO release.

4– Did all the shooting in the following feature pictures: Robin Hood, Elizabeth & Essex, They Died with Their Boots On, Dodge City, Virginia City, Buffalo Bill, Bandits of Sherwood Forest.

5– Hunted in 12 countries of the world.

6– Took well over 2,000 animals with a bow and arrow.

7– First white man to kill an elephant with a bow and arrow.

8– Appeared in 5 wild west shows.

9– Published two best seller archery books: Hunting the Hard Way and Wild Adventure

10– Appeared in 14 major Sportsman’s Shows.

11– Toured the United States putting on exhibitions for schools and general public.

12– Won 196 Field Archery tournaments in a row.

13– Won the Florida State Target Archery tournament in 1928.

14– Wrote the first set of archery Golf Rules in 1928.

15– Won 7 National Archery Golf Tournaments.

16– Set new flight record of 391 yds., 1 ft., 11 in. on Feb. 26, 1928 at Miami, FL.

17– Pulled 172 lb. bow–heaviest bow pulled by any man on record until recent years. (Items #16 & #17 verified by Dr. R.P. Elmer in Encyclopedia Brittanica, 1932.)

18– Drew 35,000 spectators in Grants Park, Chicago in 1941, where the crowd tore the shirt off his back, and took his arrows, bow and quiver as souvenirs.

19– Won the International Field Meet at Milwaukee, WI in 1942.

20– Awarded a plaque by Archery Council of CA in 1959 for his outstanding achievements in archery.

21– The Helms Athletic Foundation Hall of Fame in Los Angeles, CA has on displayarrows Hill shot in Robin Hood, his two books, and pictures.

22– In January 1962, was elected an Honorary Life Member of the Professional Archery Association.

23– In 1971, placed in the Alabama sports Hall of Fame.

24– In 1975, A.B.C. Bow Hunter’s Hall of Fame.

From: RonL
Date: 19-Jan-20




That is an impossible question. There were many many great shooters, most no one ever heard of. In 50’s and 60’s there were a lot of guys and gals both hunters and paper punchers, but then that was when there were no Trad Police and real archers would take animals well beyond the 17.5 yards. But then they did shoot field and a 80 yard walk up.

RonL

From: Deno
Date: 19-Jan-20




X2 what Nemophilist posted.

Just my opinion, but Hill's excellence in target shooting, hunting, and bow making place Howard Hill second to none. The term "Hill Style" attests to his influence on our sport. The Wilhelm Brothers are among many other amazing archers, but Howard Hill in my opinion will forever be the Gold Standard.

Deno

From: papadeerhtr
Date: 19-Jan-20




Byron Ferguson best shot I personaly ever saw period.

From: Jim Davis
Date: 19-Jan-20




Ferguson has often said, "I am no Howard Hill."

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 19-Jan-20




HH didn't shoot instinctive. He shot split vision if I remember right

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 19-Jan-20




Here we go. I knew this would happen. I meant guys that just shoot without judging distance and shooting some sort of gimmick. Like Schafer

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 19-Jan-20




Dana C. I don't care how you shoot. I truly don't. I asked a simple question that had nothing to do with how you shoot. I don't care what type of gimmick you use. I was just wondering who was the best shot that looked at what they wanted to it and shot. So far it seems like the Schafer and the Wilhelm brothers. And of course our own Aspirinbuster.

From: lost run
Date: 19-Jan-20




Stacy Groscup is the best I have seen.

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 19-Jan-20




Don't care if you guys aim and use sights. This is my thread. Why would it get yanked? I have done nothing wrong. Don't like it move it like Frank says. I don't care if the Wensels aim. Don't care how they shoot. I just asked a simple question. Move on

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 19-Jan-20




Well if Paul Schafer shot like that then he would not qualify for this topic. And I agree it is hard to beat someone that has a system. And again I do not care. Seems you guys do. I defy you to show me where I have a hard time with how you shoot. If I want to shoot that good I will get a compound with sights or a crossbow. Fortunately I do no need that but I do not compete where it is needed.

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 19-Jan-20




Imm go with the Wilheim brothers from what you guys describe here. I do have a friend that is very good with a compound. But he needs to know the distance.

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 19-Jan-20




There you go. I have seen Stacy and now that I think about it he was the best I have seen too shooting the way I describe.

From: Babbling Bob Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 19-Jan-20




Betty Grubbs, who is in the OK Archery Hall of Fame was a great one and often had the highest score at regional field archery events of all the competition, whether women or men. She shot in the Instinctive division and was two time NFAA National Champion.

At the tv station where my Dad was a television director/producer, she would shoot into the hole of 45rpm records and do other trick shots for demonstrations. Betty passed away very young or she would have had a great career. She also became a champion after being dianosed with cancer, so she was very determoned as any of her competition would tell you. She had the look of a champion where she was going to beat your brains out when she shot. On the 80yd walk up, you never had to wonder if her arrow would nto be in the center 5 zone.

Watching her and the Wilson Brothers and others back then, there were sure some great ones as George said above, whose names we will forget, but who could shoot lights out, anywhere, with any bow.

From: Babbling Bob Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 19-Jan-20




Darrell Pace, a young fellow, who won Olympic and World Championships was one of America's best. Never saw him shoot, but he was on the cover of every archery magazine.

From: RonL
Date: 19-Jan-20




Ok if everything counts how about Jay Barr, Olympic champion Korea 1988 I believe. They still shot 90 meters, as Robin Hood (Errol Flynn) would of said,

A fit distance for men to shoot. Or something like that.

RonL

From: David McLendon
Date: 19-Jan-20




"Lewis saved his friend Bobby's life with a single well placed heart shot. ;"

He didn't get there in time for Bobby Trippe though.

From: 3Ditional
Date: 19-Jan-20




I'd have to say Jeff Kavanagh (Goes by "Jeffer" here on the Wall) is the best I've seen.

Check out his vids on youtube and see for yourself.

From: longbowguy
Date: 19-Jan-20




Howard Hill - lbg

From: longbowguy
Date: 19-Jan-20




Howard Hill - lbg

From: Simple Archer
Date: 19-Jan-20




The way you are asking I would half to say myself. Simple

From: TrapperKayak
Date: 19-Jan-20

TrapperKayak's embedded Photo



Alot more than just a good shot...:)

From: Boker
Date: 19-Jan-20




Lot good shots out there and though it’s fun it’s unrealistic to compare them.

Some are good at field or 3d or trick shooting or hunting or etc

Rarely is anyone person that I have seen good at all of them equally

Byron Ferguson has pulled off some amazing trick shots, I mean it is what made him famous so yeah he’s really good at it.

But I have heard him say he wasn’t any good at 3d

I think that principle could apply to a lot of shooters.

Just my opinion

From: AspirinBuster
Date: 20-Jan-20




I think what you must do is look for consistently hitting the mark. No video or on tape but a live show. Able to do it over and over in front of a crowd. Video can be edited and dubbed. That’s one perimeter. Second you have to compare apples to apples. The arrows, bow materials and engineering in today’s bows are much better than the old days. So that’s another consideration. The old time shooters didn’t have what we have today.

Knowing what I do for a living I know about accuracy and consistency. I can tell you hands down Rev Stacy Groscup was the most accurate instinctive shooter that ever drew a string. Bar none. I shared practice ranges, hunts and shows with him and at any age he was amazing. Think about this. In his 60’s , 65!if memory serves me right, he once did a show for That’s Incredible” - and they had special close up cameras on the aspirin tablets. He hit seven consecutive shots in a row - a feat no other archer (not Hill, Fred or any of them) has done. 7 free thrown pills in the air. One after another. And he almost hit the 8th one. At age 82 he hit a baby aspirin 7th try. Age 82. Let that sink in.

Anyway, this is what I do and I can tell you he was amazing. As far as a Longbow /gap style shooting Hill was good but I would put Byron right beside him. Byron is an amazing Archer and has been able to promote the sport globally. He does a great show and I’ve seen him live several times.

Ron LaClaire would also be in the top of the game. Another amazing shooter.

Having said all this, I’ve done shows in Amish country in Ohio. I once stood amazed at a group of young Amish boys shooting homemade wooden bows and arrows at a target. They were as accurate as any man and every one of them could hit their mark. They probably won’t ever step on a stage but think about it- no tv or video games. They spent ALOT of time shooting their bows. Great seeing that.

Accuracy is tough to judge without a contest with each shooter side by side. Again I say the 7 in a row aspirin shot wins, I know of no other archer that consistent at any age. My two cents.

Frank

From: ca
Date: 20-Jan-20




Frisky

From: shandorweiss
Date: 20-Jan-20




Not that my opinion matters much, but for me it will always be Howard Hill. He did it all. Tournaments, hunting, trick shots. When he was shooting, no one could beat him.

There were and are a lot of people who do great trick shooting. People have mentioned them. It takes a lot of practice and setting up the trick shot, then it can look like a miracle. I heard a story that after Hill retired from tournament shooting, he was sitting at a range having a drink. Someone recognized him and asked if he could still shoot as well as he did in the films. He said, "get me a bow and arrow and we'll see." Someone brought a bow and arrow... which he had never shot before. Then he told the questioner to take his cup and set it on a target. I'm not sure how far away it was, but the guy did so. Hill shot the cup out of his hand just before the guy put it on the target. That takes nerve, huh? And complete confidence in your ability to shoot. With a bow you never shot before.

The only person I can think of you might be a better shooter is Legolas. But he was an elf.

From: deerhunt51
Date: 20-Jan-20




Just the long range shots that Howard Hill made look so easy makes the rest on the list a distant second. Realy no arguement.

From: r.grider
Date: 20-Jan-20




Have to be Howard Hillj

From: Nemophilist
Date: 20-Jan-20




I'm going with Howard Hill. Winning 196 Field Archery tournaments in a row by itself says alot. Plus adding all his other achievements.

From: hawkeye in PA
Date: 20-Jan-20




Anything I've read Ben Pearson should be in listed in this group also, at least on wing shooting.

From: Greyfox
Date: 20-Jan-20




I’d have to think Howard Hill........for all those records, films, and achievements ....And, seeing a film of him shooting a cigarette in a gals mouth!

From: Zildjian51
Date: 20-Jan-20




I would have to go with that I personally had contact with would be Cliff Necessary from back in the '60s.

From: Eric Krewson
Date: 20-Jan-20




The Wilhelm brother that shot from the hip reminded me of some old guy quail hunters I knew that also shot from the hip and were good at it. Pygmy hunters in Africa shoot often shoot from the hip.

I found I can snap shoot from the hip, not particularly well but could see how someone could develop this talent.

From: Will tell
Date: 20-Jan-20




I read that HH shot a Hawk out of the air at 100 yards. That's pretty hard to beat.

From: Will tell
Date: 20-Jan-20




I read that HH shot a Hawk out of the air at 100 yards. That's pretty hard to beat.

From: fdp
Date: 20-Jan-20




Problem with a lot of Howard Hill's claims, particularly the target archery related claims, is that the majority of them can'tbe validated. There doesn't seem to be enough documentation around to support the claims.

He was an exceptional shot there is no doubt, but no better than a lot of other shooters around at the time.

The Wilhelm's, Ande Vail, Hugh Rich, Horce Ford as mentioned (who could actually be credited with having developed what is now considered "Hill style" shooting) and lots of others.

I'd say there have been too many to pick just one.

From: AspirinBuster
Date: 20-Jan-20




I forgot about Ben Pearson! Fred stood out and so many of the other bowyers and shooters at the time were overlooked but yes Ben Pearson would Probably be a top ten.

I’m thankful for them all. Think about how many little ones saw a Howard Hill film and took bow in hand. Or saw Fred and followed his tracks. They all promoted archery and made it better and added members.

But FDP, you may be right. Would be hard to pick one.

My two cents. Frank

From: Wayne Hess
Date: 20-Jan-20




I was, when I was 13th-14th with my red fiberglass Shakespeare bow ! Frogs , snakes , birds, and rabbits, Feared Me.

From: oletrapper
Date: 20-Jan-20




We will never truly know. All we can compare are the ones that people know about, read about, see in person, etc. My buddy's grandpa was in charge of meat hunting for his family when he was a young boy. His father gave him one bullet and told him to come back with one rabbit. He did it daily. I say that to note that there are people in the world that would blow our minds with their marksmanship, but no one has ever heard of them. It is just part of their life. No fame, no fortune, no books, no publicity. Just people that can flat out shoot. Much like some of the largest animals in the record books (That were found dead). There are probably thousands of record book animals that were eaten by buzzards. All we know is what we can see. I would venture to say that the greatest archers are not alive today, were not around 100 years ago, and we may never hear or read about them. For most of the civilized world, archery is not necessary for survival. But, it was necessary across the globe at one time. Can you fathom how good of a shot you would be if your life, family and livelihood depended on it?

From: RymanCat
Date: 20-Jan-20




This is way too complicated to draw the line on the Leatherwall and say who's the best.

In life there are no bests or worsts because as soon as you decide who the best is in your mind someone comes along and bests that . You all should know about beasts and I should not have to say this to any of you. Come on now with all this fake news.

I will tell you who is the best it's none other than Joe boy you know he goes by the Legend its Friskey. Just ask him he will tell you.LOL

My guess is Howard Hill in my mind it always has been ever since I was a lad.

Best bow, best arrow, best dog, best wife, best deer, best toenail clipper or best toilet paper to use.

Best Church all bests is all total fake news.

I feel this is impossible to pick in all reality.

From: 6-GOLD
Date: 20-Jan-20




Rod Hoover passed away a few years ago, he was a great shot.6-gold

From: Yeller Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member
Date: 20-Jan-20




Steve Rapp

From: Mike E
Date: 20-Jan-20




It's been my observation that trick shooting is more about timing and repeatable form. Shooting a ring or whatever from the hip at a few feet with decent skill and enough practice more than a few could do it. However with what I've seen Byron, Mr. Wilhelm and Hill do goes far beyond that as far as actual skill with a bow and arrow.

From: Mtquiver
Date: 20-Jan-20




Obviously CA has seen FRISKY shoot. My vote is FRISKY as well.

From: Douglas Tubbs
Date: 20-Jan-20




Pretty awesome shooter Big bear. The girl that shoots with her feet. Question is does she shoot split toed, three toes under or walk on the string? Sorry could'nt help it.

From: Therifleman
Date: 20-Jan-20




Mike E, ive gotta agree with you about the trick shooting. Most of what ive seen in these performances were pretty easy to duplicate at home with just a little time spent. Most of the folks in the crowd are not that familiar w archery so these shots awe them. I often wonder how the performer would fair in 3d or 5 spot, as opposed to balloons at 15 feet...

From: Therifleman
Date: 20-Jan-20




Mike E, ive gotta agree with you about the trick shooting. Most of what ive seen in these performances were pretty easy to duplicate at home with just a little time spent. Most of the folks in the crowd are not that familiar w archery so these shots awe them. I often wonder how the performer would fair in 3d or 5 spot, as opposed to balloons at 15 feet...

From: Frisky
Date: 20-Jan-20




It's about time I'm getting some votes around here!

Joe

From: Mike Burch
Date: 20-Jan-20




I’ve heard and seen some amazing shots in video, but personally with my own eyes the best I’ve been around was Tom Parsons. The man is an amazing shot with a longbow...right or left handed. He has a gift for sure.

From: hawkeye in PA
Date: 20-Jan-20




This isn't a bakers thread.

From: Will tell
Date: 20-Jan-20




I'm for Robin Hood or William Tell.

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 20-Jan-20




Like Wolfie

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 20-Jan-20




Like Wolfie

From: kaw369
Date: 20-Jan-20




The best I have ever seen was Howard hill.

From: lamb
Date: 20-Jan-20




john demmer hands down

From: lost run
Date: 20-Jan-20




Jeffer and Wolfie are also at the top of my list with many others.

From: Andy Man
Date: 20-Jan-20




Mike Burch;

I don't know if Tom Parsons is the best of all times

but he is darn good, He is rather old now, but even now I havn't seen anybody that can consistantly shoot better- He is fantastic on long shots

I don't live too far from him and have shot alot with him- way out of my league for sure

From: Silverback
Date: 20-Jan-20




Are you telling me Howard Hill actually travelled around the country entertaining children and the general public with his exhibition shooting without shooting behind his back? Holy Moly does Aspirinbuster know this?

From: Babysaph
Date: 20-Jan-20




But AB shoots instinctive.,

From: Zbone
Date: 20-Jan-20




Another vote for Howard Hill...

From: Iron ranger
Date: 20-Jan-20




James jean!

From: Greyfox
Date: 21-Jan-20




I’d have to go with Howard Hill.

From: bowhunt
Date: 21-Jan-20




Another vote for Frisky.Hes climbing up the ladder.

I would have to go with Hill.For his hunting prowess,his strength,Athletic ability,trick shooting,all the different kinds of shots he could make from varying positions,the speed of his shooting with accurracy,ability to hit moving targets and his tournament success.He could do it all!

From: GUTPILE PA
Date: 21-Jan-20




STACY GROSCUP!!!

From: Supernaut
Date: 21-Jan-20




In my mind it's Howard Hill from everything I've read or seen.

Frisky receives an honorable mention.

KPC, I too push my wife's tolerance limits, I like to keep her on her toes. She hasn't kicked me out yet and I haven't even had to sleep out in the shed. A good woman is hard to find.

From: Missouribreaks
Date: 21-Jan-20




There have been many great traditional shooters, kind of depends on how one defines the greatest, and in what venue. Fred Bear and Ron Laclair are pretty admirable in what they accomplished both on the target course, and in the woods.

From: Jim Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 21-Jan-20




Ken and Walt Wilhelm, Howard Hill, Ben Person.

From: Smokedinpa
Date: 21-Jan-20




There are quite a few on here that are very good as well.

From: Eric Lechleitner
Date: 21-Jan-20




George Hendrick used to go by straight arrow on here 295 out of 300 he says he still has the target with witness signatures instinctive no sights no gap no sting walking. Eric

From: Jon Stewart
Date: 21-Jan-20




Sorry Kevin, don't count. No-one is sitting behind the target.

From: NOVA7
Date: 21-Jan-20




Howard hill often said he was no match for frisky!

From: NOVA7
Date: 21-Jan-20




Howard hill often said he was no match for frisky!

From: Frisky
Date: 21-Jan-20




NOVA7- Yes, this must be true, as I heard about it. However, I haven't been able to find documentation on the Hill quote.

Joe

From: Backcountry
Date: 21-Jan-20




Ya, word on the street is that Howard wasn’t much of a baker.

He was pretty handy with the bow and arrow, based on some old timers ‘ accounts. I sure wouldn’t know.

From: D.Lewis aka tonto59
Date: 21-Jan-20




Kevin you made me laugh! Hope your wife don’t find out. They have an uncanny way of finding out things. Nice shooting!

From: Lost arrow
Date: 21-Jan-20




Just found out that on another forum Frisky’s handle is Cookie Crusher.

From: Frisky
Date: 21-Jan-20




LA- Funny you should mention that, as I've been looking all over for cookie cutters, lol! My new handle will be Cookie Cutter.

Joe

From: Draven
Date: 22-Jan-20




The best (shooter) is the one nobody heard about.

From: Babysaph
Date: 22-Jan-20




Well now that you can hit the ballon you have to go to a smaller target. Maybe once your wife sees how you do it then you can get her to toss targets for you.

From: buci 313
Date: 22-Jan-20




Darrel Pace

Without question the best shot I ever saw !

Once saw him shoot a 300 Blue Face round and leave approximately 1/2" of white on the O D of the bulls eye !

The Olympics changed the Archery rules due to his dominance.

Darrel, worked for and shot for E Bud Pierson Archery, in Cincinnati, Ohio as a youngster.

From: TrapperKayak
Date: 22-Jan-20




Wow, If I shot a broadhead into the couch....I can't even imagine. Or boil a deer head in the kitchen...LOL! 'History' would be my first name. As in DEAD. Inscribed in my tombstone: Here lies History Sprague. You don't want to know 'His Story'.

From: Will tell
Date: 22-Jan-20

Will tell's embedded Photo



KPC, I've been in hot water for a shot gone bad.lol That's a arrow hole in my wife's favorite antique.

From: Ron LaClair
Date: 22-Jan-20

Ron LaClair's embedded Photo



Some don't know who Hugh rich was. He was the prem oer arrow maker of his time. He made the arrows for Howard to take to Africa when they flimed Tembo.

Hugh Thought the Wilham brothers were the best there was and I agree with him.

From: Iowacedarshooter
Date: 22-Jan-20




HOWARD HILL

From: RD
Date: 22-Jan-20




I shot a few times with Don Brown at NFAA shoots and was amazed at his shooting with a 121# target bow. Never saw anyone better.

From: Tim Finley Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 22-Jan-20




Thw Wilhelms and Howard Hill were incredible shots but some of the modern trick shooters like Groscup who came and shot at our shoot did all of his shooting at about 6 yards when he hit the aspirn he threw up his arms and people cheered but us with good eyes could see he hit it with the feathers on his flu flus .

From: Babysaph
Date: 22-Jan-20




Tembo? Is that the movie where they tied down the animals for him to shoot?

From: Two Feathers
Date: 22-Jan-20




Howard Hill.

From: PaPa Doc
Date: 22-Jan-20

PaPa Doc's embedded Photo



No ?.

From: Curlis
Date: 23-Jan-20




Mr. Pace, he is also a great guy.

From: Greyfox
Date: 23-Jan-20




In 1956 my dad bought a TV. I grew up on Earl Flynn and Robin Good so Howard Hill caused my love for bows. Frank Addington is the only man I have seen shoot a baby aspirin. Byron Ferguson amazed me on video. Jeffery's video of shooting discs. Would enjoy seeing Ron LaClair and Larry Hatfield shoot. In person I saw a young man from Ada, Oklahoma, Shiloh Butts win the MCAAP tournament. He can shoot a long bow amazing. I shoot with my son Klent. He is a very good shot. He won Oklahoma State Long bow Championship in 2013 with a Montana. Then there are shots you have heard about but not seen. Like Frisky's shot that hit a deer twice. Only the legend of the north could do that. It's like comparing the greatest quarterback,pitcher,golfer or tennis player. Many of the archers mentioned, I have never heard of. Many more I will never hear of. This has been a lesson in history. Thanks Kenny J

From: ground hunter
Date: 23-Jan-20




Best shot I have ever seen,, personally was Art La Ha,,,, man that guy could shoot running stuff

From: Frisky
Date: 23-Jan-20




I forgot about the deer I hit twice with one shot. I believe that does make me the last great bowhunter and the best shot of all time! I rest my case. Thanks for jogging my memory Greyfox, lol!

Joe

From: Lost arrow
Date: 23-Jan-20




Greyfox mentioned Frisky’s self proclaimed “ Legend of the North “ title. Well, this may be bigger than we thought. Due to our mutual interest in basket weaving I occasionally correspond with a gentleman in Madelia Minnesota. He has heard of some of Frisky’s feats. He claims to have heard reports of Frisky entertaining the kids in his neighborhood on warm summer nights by shooting lightening bugs with Flu Flus. How impressive is that ? Has Cupid been mentioned as one of the greatest shots ever?

From: buster v davenport
Date: 23-Jan-20




Howard Hill killed 2 deer with one shot. bvd

From: StikBow
Date: 23-Jan-20




Trick shooters vs archers with distances and less-than-modern equipment? No contest. Don’t even consider trick shooters

From: Frisky
Date: 23-Jan-20




Anyone can kill 2 deer with one shot. Did Howard Hill ever kill one deer twice with one shot? I did.

Joe

From: AspirinBuster
Date: 23-Jan-20




Gentlemen I beg to differ, I have not seen anyone instinctively close to Stacy Groscup. Their bow, his bow.. didn’t matter. Amazing talent in one man. Running shots. Laying on his belly. On his back. With his foot. Pulling with his Teeth while holding the bow with his foot. Compound. Recurve. Longbow. Didn’t matter. He was amazing. None better.

A sight shooter or gap shooter may have won on long distance but in hunting range with a recurve no one was even close. Not bragging just fact.

Frank

From: AspirinBuster
Date: 23-Jan-20




Remember - 7 aspirin in mid air. 7 attempts. All in a row. No misses. On national tv. Groscup did that. Not taped and edited tv, all in one take.

Amazing thing was he was 65 at the time. Saw him stand beside me and hit a baby aspirin 7th shot at age 82.

Frank

From: larryhatfield
Date: 23-Jan-20




Well, Stacy certainly is tops in the aspirin hitting catagory, but "best traditional archer" would have to be someone who proved themselves at more things than hitting aspirin. Hill certainly is tops in self publicity and shooting and hitting at all sorts of distances, Ken Wilhelm is probably the most versatile archer I have seen shoot, and I'm sure there are people in the United States and abroad that would have a lot of votes if only we knew about them. There is really no definitive answer, since it comes down to individual preferences based on personal reasons. I'm surprised this thread has gone on for so long.

From: Zbone
Date: 24-Jan-20




Frisky - "Did Howard Hill ever kill one deer twice with one shot? I did."

Huh? What's the story behind that?

From: bowhunt
Date: 24-Jan-20




Hill could do anything and everything with his featherlight longbow.He had no weakness.

On top of that he once held the world record for heaviest poundage pulled on a traditional bow(178 pounds I think or close to that).He was a freak like Michael Jorden.He's the Babe Ruth of archery.He killed elephants,cape buffalo and rhinos with bows well over 100 pounds.No one can match that.His feats of archery strength combined with everything else.Puts him alone on top of Mount Olympus.He was touched.

If thiers an Archery God its him.

From: Frisky
Date: 24-Jan-20




Zbone- I shot a deer twice with one arrow. I shot it through the heart, and later, I found another wound. Some believe MTQuiver nicked the hide when I made him field-dress the deer, but I believe I shot it twice with one arrow, even with MT being a poor field-dresser.

Joe

From: Zbone
Date: 24-Jan-20




Ah, thought you meant killed 2 deer at the same time, one shot, one arrow...

From: Curtis Schaffhauser
Date: 24-Jan-20




Wilhelm.

From: Liquid Amber Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 24-Jan-20




Most of the archers tossed out here were/are very good at one or two phases of shooting and that's it. Howard Hill hunted, roved, shot field archery, shot NAA targets, flight, shot archery golf, trick shooting and movie stunts. I don't know of any archer ever participating in the variety of archery that Hill did. And, he shot hunting weight bows through out. He entered several NAA Nationals with a 70# hunting bow against light weight target bows and point of aim markers. While waiting to go on the firing line, he would entertain folks shooting thrown coins. He finished middle of the pack. Those in attendance said they had never seen anyone handle a hunting weight bow as he did. There were instances when he was bested at field archery by one of the Wilhelms and maybe others. He was beaten by a kid from Utah named Mardee Robinson in the first Art Young Round head at an NAA National. Hill later got even in the Archery Golf event. He was so proficient at archery golf while living in Florida, if he was entered, folks wouldn't show up. When it's all added up, Howard Hill is still the Man. :)

From: Babysaph
Date: 24-Jan-20




Again HH doesn't meet the requirements laid out at the beginning..

From: Elkpacker1
Date: 24-Jan-20




Its Frisky for sure

From: David A.
Date: 24-Jan-20




"How many trad legends actually went to the Olympics?" Arvid Danielson was alternate to the Olympics SHOOTING WITH A GLOVE.

He also beat Hill's California tournament records and was a fantastic trick shot, back to back perfect 300 rounds, and various other records. I've shot with him in his backyard....we both now use nonmechanical releases, which I believe is soon coming into common use. We'll see...

From: Greyfox
Date: 24-Jan-20




Babysaph, which of the requirements did he break. I know nothing about how Howard Hill shot. Kenny J

From: Babysaph
Date: 24-Jan-20




He is a split vision shooter and I asked about instinctive shooters

From: D.Lewis aka tonto59
Date: 24-Jan-20




Ben Pearson shot ducks on the fly.

From: David A.
Date: 24-Jan-20




You are correct, but he never set out to promote himself. Probably one of the best all around shots we've had if we combine tournament archery and trick shooting. Byron Ferguson reportedly said Danielson would have put him out of business if he promoted himself.

I have a video of his trick shooting, and he could do it all including from horseback.

From: ScoutII
Date: 24-Jan-20




With out question Byron Ferguson.

From: Okaw
Date: 24-Jan-20




Long ago, for a brief instant in time.....I made an impossible shot on a running rabbit at almost 100 yards. A blunt to the head. Then reality sunk in after the next shot.

From: Silverback
Date: 24-Jan-20




so some really great shots never made themselves famous and others tell us how good they are all the time.

From: Mike E
Date: 24-Jan-20




That chick in the Hunger Games was pretty good. There's Hermit in SE OH that shoots flying squirrels in mid air for food and that's w/o night vision. There's a Mongol legend that says one of the warriors had his dog snatched up by an Eagle, following it on his horse he shot the Eagles feathers off one at a time until the Raptor landed softly so as not to injure the dog.

From: Greyfox
Date: 24-Jan-20




Sorry Babysaph,can you explain split vision shooting. Guess I need a dictionary. Kenny J

From: David A.
Date: 25-Jan-20




Silverback, you do have a point and it's similar for the so called "World's Best Bowhunter". For example, relatively few bowhunters of today know who Paul Schafer was...

From: Phil
Date: 25-Jan-20




It may come as a surprise to many here but .... archery does and has existed outside of the USA for quite some time and has produced some rather good archers

From: Iwander
Date: 25-Jan-20

Iwander's embedded Photo



From: Iwander
Date: 25-Jan-20

Iwander's embedded Photo



From: Iwander
Date: 25-Jan-20

Iwander's embedded Photo



From: Iwander
Date: 25-Jan-20

Iwander's embedded Photo



From: Iwander
Date: 25-Jan-20

Iwander's embedded Photo



From: Iwander
Date: 25-Jan-20

Iwander's embedded Photo



From: AspirinBuster
Date: 25-Jan-20




Big Bear Well, the board and electors put Groscup in the Archery Hall of Fame so somebody heard of him. When they filmed ABC’s Secrets of the Bible he was flown to film some shooting with a sling like David slew Goliath with. He was shooting things out of mid air to illustrate the accuracy of the weapon and prove that yes David could have been that accurate with his sling. Stacy was a humble Methodist minister and never self promoted or advertised himself. And he often did shows for free. The tv show That’s Incredible captured the 7 aspirin without a miss shot. No one in archery has touched that record. Trust me it’s the most difficult feat you could do - in front of a live audience and in one try- not multiple attempts and editing the video. He did seven in a row - no misses.

I have the 7th arrow from the 7th shot. He signed it for me.

Frank

From: ottertails
Date: 25-Jan-20

ottertails's embedded Photo



Who's to say with so many greats...Howard Hill, the Wilhelms, Paul Schafer and many others. And I was ready to throw Frisky in with them until I came across this rare pic of him with his first actual "Holy Grail" bow and a couple of volunteer goobers......

From: DanaC
Date: 25-Jan-20




"That chick in the Hunger Games was pretty good. "

Has anyone here mentioned Khatuna Lorig, who trained Jennifer Lawrence for that role? Or Brady Ellison?

From: Mike E
Date: 25-Jan-20




The bow and arrow have been around what 10,000 years or more, all around the world, to believe "best ever" is limited to the US over the last 75-80 years is a stretch at best. All the obvious apply. Who knows? Theres a teenager I saw shoot at OSTA a couple of years ago who was pretty darn good. Interesting though, Those Wilhelm bros. don't know of anyone close to them.

From: David A.
Date: 25-Jan-20




Frank, wasn't there a Groscup video at one time?

I'd also be curious if Stacy ever shot tournaments and if so how did he do? A curious fact is that phenoms like this seem to do well at all kinds of difficult moving shots but can't score at a similar level of stationary targets...go figure.

From: Flyman
Date: 25-Jan-20




I would have to say Barry Wensel is pretty good.Best on shooting big game,I ever saw.His videos and shots on running deer arreally amazing.Hes not a target archer,but hes the best shot in the the timber.

From: fdp
Date: 25-Jan-20




"A curious fact is that phenoms like this seem to do well at all kinds of difficult moving shots but can't score at a similar level of stationary targets...go figure."

David that's a really all encompassing statement based on nothing.

As has been mentioned the Thompson Brothers, Art Young, Howard Hill, Ken Wilhelm, Andy Vale, Fred Bear, Ben Pearson, lots of folks were good at moving targets as well as stationary targets. Historic eveidence coompletely flies inthe face of that statement.

From: Zbone
Date: 25-Jan-20




I take my Howard Hill vote back, Moe now gets my vote, Larry didn't even get hurt...8^)))

Too freak'n funny, I about spit my drink when I seen it...8^)

From: reddogge
Date: 25-Jan-20




The best aerial wing shooter on wild birds is Tim Wells. OK, so he uses a compound, you can't deny his talent.

From: Babysaph
Date: 25-Jan-20




I can't explain it but it was explained in these posts above with picture.,

From: Babysaph
Date: 25-Jan-20




Aren't WWE wrestlers actual wrestlers?

From: 9/10 Broke Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 25-Jan-20




Glad to see Tim Wells name. No doubt that shooting instictive, he is one of the best.

From: David A.
Date: 25-Jan-20




fdp, you cite some good examples. That tentative conclusion is only based on a few cases I know about, but I know of contrary examples as well such as Arvid Danielson who was excellent at both.

From: Babysaph
Date: 25-Jan-20




I forgot about Tim Wells

From: bowhunt
Date: 25-Jan-20




Pretty sure Tim Wells does not shoot a trad bow.I have never seen him do it anyway.I am sure he would be very good if he did.But Screaming Eagle bows dont count on this thread.Or Spears or blow darts.

Not too many guys in the history of archery in the last 10,000 years or whatever have killed lions,Cape Buffalo,Elephants and Rhinos with bows over 100 pounds or any bow for that manner.Thats what seperates Hill form the pack of many great trad archers over time for me.

From: Iwander
Date: 26-Jan-20

Iwander's embedded Photo



I can tell you for sure it's not me, however I do think Frank Garske qualifies. I know for a fact that when he showed up at a shoot, Howard Hill would leave.

From: Iwander
Date: 26-Jan-20




Perhaps it's difficult to separate "the best" from the "most famous"?

From: Iwander
Date: 26-Jan-20




I was told buy an old timer that new some of the great shooters, that those guys shot "a whole lot" of arrows on a daily basis. I do believe they all paid the price to become that good.

From: Iwander
Date: 26-Jan-20




This is a note I received from Alton Safford not too long before he passed away. I had received a bow built by Frank Garske and wanted to know more about him. Alton was a beloved old- timer here in Southern California for many years.

"Dear steve: Thank you for your note of Frank Garske, and one of his bows. Yes, I knew Frank well. At one time, when Frank first came down from Montana, we both worked for Hugh Rich in Glendale. Frank made bows, I made arrows. We used to hunt together- -- deer, elk, bear and antelope.

I am sorry that you never met the man; a famous archer, a fine bower, an architect. and an original sculpture. Truely. a renaissance man. But, alas! he died early this spring. I attended his memorial service there in Yucca Valley. And now he is gone. And I guess that I am "The Last Man Standing" --- the last of the Olde Bow Huners. The rest of them (Frank Garske, Dr. Kenegy, Howard Mathisen, Howard Hill. Wright Huff. The Wilhelm Brothers. Bud Forester, et al. are gone under. We all knew each other. We made ALL of our equiptment=== therre was nothing for sale in the l920s and 30s. We made it all: bows, arrows, broadheads, strings.

None of it was for sale. It was a different age, a different time. You didn't "assemble arrows". you MADE everything,every part of your equiptment, I miss those times. I miss all of y hunting buddies. I guess I am the only one left. I am 94 years old." "

From: Iwander
Date: 26-Jan-20




Here's some info on Alton:

http://monache.blogspot.com/2012/01/al ton-safford-long-bow-photo-by.html?m=1

From: Wapiti - - M. S. Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 26-Jan-20




Stacy Groscup !

From: The Whittler
Date: 26-Jan-20




He ain't been born yet.

From: Sunset Hill
Date: 27-Jan-20




OP post says best traditional shooter of all time. For me that would include all the aspects of shooting a Pre- mechanical style of bow.

So you have to look at all aspects and who did them all, consistently the best...not just parts and pieces. Not just target archery in it's varied forms, not just exhibition archery in it's varied forms, and not just hunting archery.

Howard Hill has posted the best compiled record of anyone, across all the mediums of traditional archery. He may have not won every tournament, hit every dime he shot at in exhibition shooting, or killed every animal he shot at. HOWEVER, he shot better than most archers in each form of archery he participated in, and no one was as great a shot over the wide diversity of archery Hill was, for as long as he was.

He dealt with the target archers of the time, complaining about his success, and arguing the validity....so he had an open-ended challenge for any archer, at any time, to come shoot against him for any amount of money, if he could choose half the targets. NO one ever took him up on the offer.

From: SeminoleBob
Date: 27-Jan-20




Howard Hill!!

From: David A.
Date: 27-Jan-20




lwander, that's quite poignant...we are all sunlight fading in the grass...nothing lasts forever except the earth and sky...even that will eventually be gobbled up by colliding galaxies...it boggles the mind.

From: Babysaph
Date: 27-Jan-20




I swear I saw HH shoot an animal that was chained.

From: Babysaph
Date: 27-Jan-20




And don't forget our very own Aspirinbuster. He can shoot mustard seeds out of the air. And he shoots instinctive behind his back.

From: Sunset Hill
Date: 27-Jan-20




Babysaph....you saw it? or you saw the Hollywood induced film of close range shooting of dangerous animals without the benefit of telephoto lens, slow motion photography, and creative digital editing such as we can see everywhere today.

From: Saphead Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 27-Jan-20




https://youtu.be/uTpBCdDfY-s

Ode to Alton Safford

From: babysaph Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 27-Jan-20




I saw him shoot an animal that had a chain on it. I forget the movie. Not important but I can not unsee it. Lost all respect for him then,

From: Sunset Hill
Date: 27-Jan-20




Yep, same with me and Hollywood movies. Worse is done nowadays to make a movie, so I lost all respect for most Hollywood actors.

From: long bow
Date: 16-Sep-20




I knew Frank Garske and worked w/him for along time on a castle built out of large rock and wood beams in pioneertown calif,He was the real deal , best archer,architect, and great man, he was like a father to me and friend. A great mentor to my life. May he R.I.P.

From: Desperado
Date: 17-Sep-20




babysaph....Excellent post. It is a shame some folks can't just answer your question without trying to be a PhD philosopher and dissect it.Of course you know some people go to bed and say " I hope the night goes quickly so I can get up early, eat a good breakfast and start complaining about something else" :( :( By the way, my vote goes to Byron Ferguson. Saw him shoot in person and was totally in awe !!!!! Be safe...Des

From: Kelly
Date: 17-Sep-20




I can vouch for Eric Lichtleitner’s post about George Heinrich shooting a 295 out of 300 on the blue/white PAA indoor target face. I was one of the witnesses. That is 20 ends of 5 arrows each shot at 20 yards with 5-4-3-2-1 scoring with the 5 white bullseye being 3” in diameter. That is 55 bulls out of 60 shots/arrows. Several of his 4’s were actually “kiss outs” from hitting previously shot arrows in the 5-bullseye.

George shot split finger, instinctive, tab, Staghorn bow, 4 fletch aluminum arrows and averaged in the mid 280’s in our mid Wisconsin indoor league. But George was foremost a Bowhunter, born, raised and still lives in north central Wisconsin.

From: Terry thoreson
Date: 17-Sep-20




Howard Hill

From: Terry thoreson
Date: 17-Sep-20




Howard Hill

From: SteveD Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 17-Sep-20




Nice to read about the "unsung" shooters. George Heinrich mentioned and he's a heck of a nice guy.

Good shooter and good guy that's a winning combo anyway you look at it.

From: aromakr Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member
Date: 17-Sep-20




I would like to make some corrections to this post: Let me preface what I'm about to say; those of you that know me, know I'm a Howard Hill fan, he's my Hero but!

Ron LaClair stated that Hugh Rich made Howards arrows for Africa, not quite, the African arrows were made by Ben Pearson Archery and sent too Hugh Rich for inspection and grading. To be exact there were 10 gross or 1440 arrows, you need a lot of arrows for 9 months in Africa.

Howard Claimed he won 196 tournaments in a row, however there are numerous articles in "Archery Magazine" in the 40-50's where Howard placed second and Ken Welhelm was first. Ken's eye/hand coordination was unbelievable as a semi-pro baseball pitcher, he threw 15 pitches to Babe Ruth in a exhibition game in Los Angles in 1929 and struck the Babe out 5 times. That story came from Hugh Rich and I've seen the articles of Ken beating Howard in Archery magazine myself.

Bob

From: Tundra
Date: 17-Sep-20




I go with the Wilhelm Brothers If you think about the equipment back in that time their shooting was nothing but amazing. They just flat out could shoot a bow & arrow. Read articles and watch some videos on these brothers. Incredible!!

From: RymanCat
Date: 17-Sep-20




I was going to nominate our very own Joe Boy none other than Friskey but would get called out for Fake News. LOL

We all know Joe does drive by's or should I say drive overs. He's the only guy I know that has the underside of vehicle 3/4 plate lined like a tank.

Then he uses those fake Rapalas to remove blood shot meat and grinds up for his cats. LOL

Imagination working today and thats not fake news. LOL

No one knows for sure who the best of the best is or can we even get close to it.

From: Stan
Date: 17-Sep-20




Probably some fella or lady that we have never heard of. Never in the spot light and never cared to be..

From: Ron LaClair
Date: 17-Sep-20




Bob, when I said Hugh made the arrows Howard took to Africa, I plead OTM (old timers memory) Hugh probably told me the story right but my memory didn't remember it right 8>)

From: Verdeburl
Date: 17-Sep-20




I read through all the comments, and can only say that I couldn't really point my finger to just one person. However what I will say is that to each, and every person listed in this thread as great shooters--I am thankful to God for all that these folks contributed to our sport.

From: Verdeburl
Date: 17-Sep-20




I read through all the comments, and can only say that I couldn't really point my finger to just one person. However what I will say is that to each, and every person listed in this thread as great shooters--I am thankful to God for all that these folks contributed to our sport. These folks cleared the path for all of us. Things like establishing actual hunting seasons where would could legally hunt game, shining a positive light on archery, and bringing so many folks into the fold. All of them deserve a debt of gratitude, and place of honor in the industry for their contributions.

From: sagebrush
Date: 17-Sep-20




I thought it was me,,guess not

From: Ollie Professional Bowhunters Society - Qualified Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 17-Sep-20

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