I just drew this up while waiting for my morning coffee to perk. It is easier for me to grasp a concept when I have a visual aide sometimes.

Anything that falls in the yellow area is not going to be cut.

Anything that enters the pink area far enough to cross one of the blades will be cut.

Interesting to look at and realize how close yet how far away one can be when it comes to cutting vitals.

Not looking to pick sides on which is best as I own and shoot all three styles for various reasons.

Coffee is ready. Good Day

I thought about the chance of just passing by an artery for a long time. I used to use three blades to good effect, but I've seen some substantial blood trails posted here from two blade heads.

I think if you passed through a lung, or preferably two, there would be no difference. A veterinarian told me if you puncture the diaphragm they suffocate quickly. I think shot placement is more important.

How did I get on this touchy subject? Must be the rainy day.

Yep. And particularly interesting when talking about Whitetail and Black Bear. Probably the big game animals in this country that are the most hunted, as well as the mot often lost. In spite of the fact that they are some of the easiest to will. And many times they are lost due to a poor hit, or poor blood trail, each of which could have been potentially avoided by using a head that had a larger more inclusive cutting profile.

Diagrams are true for pass throughs. Which head gets the easiest pass through? I use the question, because our friend Rick Barbee has video of a 3 out penetrating a 2.

Pluse the flaw in the four blade. Most four blades have smaller bleeder blades. Those that don't have a sharpening problem.

Bowmania

I've also seen 2 blade holes scab over on long trails. Not to mention a bears hair clogging a 2 blade hole. Also 3 and 4 blades aren't penetrating bone unless you shoot a heavy bow. I've tried and killed with all 3 and knowing all that I still use a 2 blade ace. I've got the best recovery rate of my friends so I guess I got the bighead,lol. I'm confident when I shoot an animal it going to drop in sight or be a short trail. I'm not trying to brag, just saying if you have confidence in it then use it.

You’re assuming, of course, that all of the blood vessels that we are interested in hitting run basically straight. Which they don’t.

There is also the issue of penetration. Especially if you hunt from up in a tree, if you don’t get an exit, you don’t get a bloodtrail. Or not much of one....

If you strike a heavy bone with one edge of a 2-blade, the head is free to move away from the bone and”slide around it”, as some say. In muscle, especially, the 3 & 4 blade designs end up pressing the FLAT of the blade into solid flesh, and that head will wedge up against the bone, coming to a hard stop. BTDT.

Yes, more blades cut “more”, but if you just end up cutting more of the wrong stuff....

So on the whole?

I don’t know from bears; Larry sez he’s killed hundreds of ‘em with a #35 and you can just about throw an arrow through one.

Just a thought, but going with a wider 2-blade might do you more good than a 3 or 4-blade.... provided it’ll tune for you.

And last thought....

A clean pass-through doesn’t seem to bother the animals much. Innumerable reports of animals flinching and then seeming to ignore it. I certainly can’t say the same for animals that have stopped an arrow, though I did see my last deer calm down immediately once my arrow snapped off and dropped out.

I think we’d see a lot fewer long, thin blood trails if we all figured out how to get a clean pass-through double-lunger every time. Because a deer that walks off bleeding from two holes and beds down to die close by should not be all that hard to locate.

And a 2-blade seems like a good place to start...

Really doesn't matter if you put it through both lungs and out the other side.

No cut profile for the single bevel?

Btw, on that diaphragm thing. One of the few I lost was a buck quartered away pretty sharply shot with a 3 blade. The arrow went in back near the stomach. A week later after he was found by accident over a mile away in a city park with 32 1/2 inches of arrow in him. A friend who worked in the park found it by accident. He recognized the arrow and called me. The arrow went in behind the last rib and stopped against the opposite shoulder, taking out 1 lung and liver,and of course the diaphragm. The only thing we could figure was the pain of the arrow still being in him kept him running. Adrenaline can do funny things. I saw a deers heart beating outside its body once in w va.

On anything thin skinned I typically use a multiblade head. Simple fact is that what I hunt most is deer, and hogs. I want all the damage done on the inside as I can get done, and a 2 blade doesn't do as much of that on like hits. It doesn' mkae as big a hole on like hits, and doesn't cause as much blood loss on like hits. It simply can't because it doesn't have as much cutting surface.

Where I hunt is thick and nasty and I want all the blood on the ground that I can get.

The exit is just icing on the cake. However, I don't hunt from tree stands, so I typically have better shot angles the tree stand hunters do.

Do you get good enough blood from the entry? I’d think that the arrow whipping against them would make for a long tracking job.....

But the blood IS heavier while the shaft is holding the entry open....

The single bevel question seems good. But also the effect of a razor sharp two blade that is in the chest cavity when the animal runs. The effect of a 2 blade that is jerked out during a death run, etc.

Jmdavis, I usually sharpen the back edge of my broadheads just for those scenarios.

GF, not sure who that question is for but it's a rare occasion when the arrow isn't laying on the ground on the far side of the deer.

If you deflate the lungs, they are done. And that slightly further back aiming point gives you a bigger target as well with no major bones to contend with.

And no, Shawn and I don't always agree but we agree in that.

That's all I shoot for...double lung, and from the ground it is easier to get that than from a tree stand. You double lung with a 2 blade, and you will have a short blood trail. You make a bad shot with a multiblade, and you'll have a long one. Accuracy is the thing.

Thanks, Frank - when you said “Icing on the cake”, I thought maybe it was not the usual.

But yes, you can get away with more blade if you make sure to stay off the shoulder.

I’m not too interested in holding far enough back that the lungs start to taper off, though... where the scoring rings fall short (and most anatomical drawings/photos fall short) is in that the diaphragm is domed, and the lungs don’t extend nearly as far aft at the midline of the animal as they do along the ribcage. So a “solid” 8-ring hit can actually be really marginal with quite a bit of liver involved...

Happy medium for me!

GF, honestly anyone who has bowhunted for awhile, should dang well know deer anatomy, especially where the lungs are. They are a relatively big target as well, and have no huge bones protecting them on a broadside shot. That said, some folks just aren't patient enough to wait for that shot. I am, and if I don't get it, I don't shoot.

You guys keep saying just hit the lungs and your good. You want to be prepared for the worse case scenarios not the best!

If you make a bad hit it doesn’t matter what broadhead you use. After watching the the 3 rivers broadhead test I’ll stick with 2 blades.

If you make a bad hit it doesn’t matter what broadhead you use. After watching the the 3 rivers broadhead test I’ll stick with 2 blades.

Well, Spike...

Fred Bear said a bear with bleeders was like hitting them twice. And that sold a lot of heads for him.

It’s more like once and a half, though. Just mathematically.

If more blades make you happy, that’s fine; just recognize that they will impede penetration to some degree or other. Myself, I’d rather do what I can to guarantee a second hole.

Anybody have a link to the 3R test??

I don't always use a 2 blade... but when I do it's a wide one.

GF...this thread mostly revolves around deer, Black Bears, and such critters.

To be perfcetly honest, when shooting from the ground, and not having to worry about those high angle hits that I mentioned originally, and keeping shots from 20 yards in, and staying away from major bones, and using an arrow of reasonable weight, I can't hink of any hunting weight bow that won't leave 2 holes using a good sharp 3 blade head. It would have to be an absolute dog. ANd i mean a DOG.

And if you hit a major bone with ANY head, all bets are off.

At that poundage, a 3-blade should give you complete penetration on a ‘50s Buick.

How about the poundages that most Mere Mortals are shooting these days??

I’d expect most of us could get great results from a Woodsman (or the Thunderheads that I started with) as long as you don’t have to slide across a big bone.

Punching through the skinny part of the scapula, you may well be better off with a multi-blade - more ways for the bone to flex out of the way.

So it’s a bit of a crapshoot. Can’t really go wrong so long as you pick one you can get really sharp.

GF, it really isn't a crap shoot. Until "trad" became a thing most all the guys who were keeping longbows and recurves alive were shooting multi blade heads. Fred Bear, Roger Rothaar, Don Assenheimer, John Musachia, Dale Dye, Dick Robertson, Byron Schurg, Rocky Miller, Keith Chastain and scads of others. Most of these guys were western hunters hunting Elk and Mule Deer and most if them weren't shooting bows much heavier than folks are today.

Certainly one should use whatever they can get the sharpest and whatever flies the best. But at the same time you need to ga a realistic understanding of the subject.

Two blades will work okay if put in the boiler house :)

This was a 15 yard shot, I watched him go down.

Another Shark attack with great results. Complete pass-thru 48lb Black Widow Longbow.

Happy hunting my friends. Just put a sharp head where it belongs and the all work :)

Two blades will work okay if put in the boiler house :)

This was a 15 yard shot, I watched him go down.

Another Shark attack with great results. Complete pass-thru 48lb Black Widow Longbow.

Happy hunting my friends. Just put a sharp head where it belongs and the all work :)

Sorry for the double post (I used my phone)... I have no idea where the second picture came from, it's not mine???

Frank - by Crapshoot, I just meant that there are always trade-offs involved. You gain a little cutting edge here, maybe sacrifice a little penetration there. Pay your money and take your choice, eh?

The Wensel Bros. wouldn’t have made the Woodsman a 3-blade if they didn’t like 3-blades, but they did make it longer and leaner in profile than most triples (if not all of ‘em).

OTOH, Howard Hill espoused a 3:1 ratio.... but of course he was always dinking around with low draw weights and soda-straw arrows....

;)

"Thats where I always hit them" that's interesting. I don't many folks who can say that. I certainly can't.

You fellas sure do know an awful lot about broadheads and how they work.

:p

LOL.

They all work the same: they cut if they’re sharp and they don’t if they aren’t, and none of them work any better than the shot that you make.

I’ve just had the experience of a head lodging against a bone when it could have been redirected (or would have missed the bone entirely) if it had been a 2-blade. And I do think that if that head had passed through, I might well have had seen a shorter, slower, straighter death run.

Probably still wouldn’t have been any blood on the ground, though. I was really lucky that he tipped over within view.

LOL

Well, I really don’t miss. Hahahahaha. False.

George....EXACTLY !!!!!!! There would be far less deer lost regardless of the broadhead if folks would wait for a broadside shot and pass on others. Having said that I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE sharp Bear Razorheads without the bleeder blades....All I ever use.

Shot selection trumps everything else I would say. It defiantly trumps broadhead selection.

Hit`em right here. They don't go far.

Just a thought, though....

Broadside from ground level is a great option; bigger, thinner target and all.

OTOH...

We’re shooting at an oval. If you shoot through it from an angle, you can cut through a whole lot more internals in the process.

If you’re looking to maximize internal damage, you can use more blades or you can take a longer path. Both work. Both have potential downside if anything goes Not According To Plan.

Yep shot place tells us all !

Visual....

Yikes! Time for a new phone!

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