Anyone hunted in Ishi country, near Deer Creek. I have been watching videos of his old hunting grounds. Many believe he was a medicine man.

Never heard that one before....

But I guess being the last surviving member of a vanishing tribe isn't enough for some folks.

Try to PM member Traxx on here. He has a lot of info on Ishi. bvd

Dan:

He's talking about Ishi the California Indian. And Deer creek in Tehama County California. I've hunted very close to there, I have a friend that has a ranch on the northern edge of Deer Creek and hunted on that ranch.

Bob

I live about 20 mies from where he was discovered. Have hunted the deer creek area many times. Very few deer there nowadays as it's a general zone, not subject to a draw with very limited tags. Never heard of the medicine man thing.

That's how legends grow. Little pieces are added on as the story is told. I've read two books on Ishi, and most of Pope's accounts. If there was a mention of him being a medicine man, per se, then I missed it. He knew how to use plants for medicine as most all Native Americans did.

I'd like to hunt there as well at some point just because.

I've never read anything related his being a medicine man either.

He was betrayed by a medicine man. bvd

George, I think you hit it on the head,he was highly skilled on plants. I think the vid I watched related his skill for knowing plants and elevated him.

I’d be interested in hearing the details on Buster’s story, assuming there is any truth to it... ;)

It’s true what George said, though… No telling how many of our heroes in the oral tradition are composites of any number of individuals over time. Robin Hood is probably just one of the best known examples… Of course, that does explain why there is often conflicting information out there about each of these…

GF, Ishi did not want an autopsy done on his body after he died. Dr. Saxton Pope knew this but, he had the autopsy done anyway. He sent Ishi's brain to the Smithosiun in DC. Many years later it was tracked down and returned to be interred with the rest of Ishi's remains. The whole story of this is told in the book: "Ishi's Brain". The book is available on Amazon. Traxx told me about this book some time ago. bvd

thanks for the info,, very interesting,

There were no protections for NDN remains until around 1990, when the NAGPRA legislation first forced the federal government to take stock, federal agencies and museums reportedly had the remains of between 100,000 and 200,000 Native Americans in their possession, and there are still many private collections displaying NDN remains in "trophy" rooms. Here's a picture of the Glidden "collection" on Santa Catalina Island.

It is not unusual to find remains at small museums and historical displays, still, across the West.

It always amazed me that if a person was non white and been dead a couple hundred years, then it was somehow OK to dig them up, along with their posessions. I'd like to see them try that with some of the Puritian cemetaries in the northeastern states.

Hmm all very interesting. How could someone have a collection like this privately? That's a lot of skeletons.

Cat, he bought them from grave robbers along with whatever else was buried with the bodies.

It's common today to meet NDNs ("indians" as noted by Larry Hatfield) who ascribe to a variety of beliefs and practices that might seem beyond the mundane experience of white people. White people are often unable to think beyond whatever their radios and preachers yell at them.

someone said.in a previous thread that ish I was in bad shape when found by pope ? starving they said ?

He was in bad shape when he was found outside of a slaughter house. His camp had been raided and all of his weapons and supplies had been stolen by the raiders. Pope did not find him. He met Pope later after he was brought to the university where Pope taught medicene. bvd

I did a book report on "Ishi in two worlds" as a teen in high school. The story was fascinating to me at the time, and still is.

But keep in mind that any drainage or bottoms or ridge or mountain we hunt today, was the hunting grounds for Native Americans at some point in the past.

For those fortunate to have some native ancestry, every place we hunt is the footsteps of our ancestors which only makes our hunts more meaningful.

Well-said, John.

Hai-hai

When I was a youth, the Tennessee Valley Authority was going to flood a lot of land-some of which contained the remains of the “mound builders”. I was a volunteer to dig up the stone box graves and an archaeologist from UT would photograph and catalog everything in them. Theobjects and Skelton’s were taken to Nashville i think. Then the they built the dams. I surely did learn a lot about the ancient folks who roamed those hills from those excavations. The tools they crafted and buried with the dead were amazing. Traxx has been ill but is on the rebound and i’ll Ask him to stop by as he has an intense interest in this man. That part of california looks gamey, but there is not a lot of nutrition for deer in mature pine forests, I was up south of there last weekend and only saw three deer in 4 days

The Sierra Club et al got most of the logging stopped, but we now have PG&E burning it instead. The tree huggers are now claiming that the spotted owl actually prefers burned trees to the green ones. So no cutting the standing burned trees. If this fire season is a repeat of the last two, there will be a heck of a lot of new nutrition sprouting up.

Deer love grazing on fresh growth, after fires. Neither Sierra Club nor PG&E can be blamed for population growth.

Ishi was,in fact a Medicine man or rather a Doctor as they were called in that culture..Many of the songs recorded by Edward Sapir,were Doctor Songs and were translated as such,by the last remaining fluent speakers,of the Mountain Maidu dialect..Ishi's Mother,was Maidu and it is told,that his elderly uncle,was a doctor and how he inherited the trade..Ishi,would not have been taught these songs nor used them,had he not been trained in the use and meaning of them..It is also documented,that there were raids on cabins,after the lower camp was discovered and the raids were,carried out by several individuals,and the evidence pointed to native perpetrators...Lige Graham was repeatedly hit with severe losses and it is told that he devised a plan of revenge..He poisoned whiskey bottles and labeled them as such,much to the disapproval of other non native inhabitants of the region,most notably,the Speagle family,who owned the camp a few miles down stream..It is a tradition of the culture,that if a doctor looses too many patients,that he or she,would be punished by banishment or execution,depending on the circumstance..It has been told and believed,that Ishi ran from the remaining people,for fear of execution due to his inability to heal those from drinking the poison from those bottles..

I have spent time in that country but not hunting it..There used to be many deer in the cooler months but in the more hot months they migrate higher towards Lassen peak...While i was there,there was a bit of agriculture of the illegal type going on,but in recent years,i have been told,it has escalated,to the point of being fairly dangerous,so be careful if you venture in there..

Hmmm...NDN, excuse my ignorance, but what does this stand for and does it have anything to do with Elizabeth Warren? Isn't she claiming to be the last of the Yahi???

NDN = Indian.

Dan--- the Deer Creek area in Ohio is very familiar to me. We have one spot along the creek that was so productive we called it "The Meat Seat". I can't begin to count the deer ive taken from that spot over the years, let alone the deer my buddy and his boys have taken.

BVD,,,

Actually,it was Kroeber who donated Ishi's brain,to the Smithsonian,after the fact..Kroeber actually was not present and sent a telegram to Pope telling him,not to conduct an autopsy,but Pope had already performed it..That is about the only action,i defend Kroeber for.. It was a good old friend and mentor of mine,who was instrumental in repatriating Ishi's Brain from the Smithsonian and his ashes from the Mount Olivet Cemetery...Contrary to the report from Kroeber,Cremation,was not the traditional burial practice among Ishi's people..

Traxx, glad to hear that you are on the mend. I knew that Kroeber was out of town at the time and didn't want the autopsy done. I just couldn't remember his name when I posted. bvd

NDN. OK, I get it. Took awhile. Won't be long untill the entire English language will be in that sort of code. I understand that the Millenials can't read cursive writing now.

But I guess being the last surviving member of a vanishing tribe isn't enough for some folks.

It will never be enough for many,,because there was and is evidence,that he wasnt...There have been many contradictions,in stories accounts and evidence,between Kroebers Narrative and others,even among the staff at the university...I do not believe there was such a tribe,as the "Yahi"...The name was not even used by Kroeber or Watterman,until it was professed by Sam Batwi,,who was suspect at best...It is reported,that communication between Batwi and Ishi,was minimal and mostly of pantomime..It is also reported,that Ishi didnt even care much for Batwi..In later recordings,it was reported by Edward Sapir that Ishi's word for man,was Yahi from his stories of a legendary bowyer among the people,who owned a Steele ax..Ishi Called Him Chuno Yahi which translated to Wood Man and is of the Pit River Dialect..

NDN was invented by native kids didn't like the white man's "Indian" label. Just fyi.

And, fyi, Ishi was one of the survivors of the genocide.

It was Originally N'Dn,pronounced Indin,as most native people in the lower 48 pronounce it..It wasnt until the millennial generation,that the term Indian became offensive..Seems like that generation,feels they need to redefine everything..

Ishi was a Yahi. Yahi was his tribe. Tribe was in the wilderness. Wilderness was his home.

Haiku poem. Written by fourth grader Scott Germond, some year ago. I hope Scott is doing well. - lbg

Traxx, you got it all wrong. NDN is grest for texting and for email...

..it's tiresome when old geezers and wannabe geezers damn entire generations.

I suggest you listen to Native America Calling. You can find it easily.

I'll bet Ishi is saying right now OMGROLMAO.

Funny,,i saw the Term,in print,,long before the internet and cell phones..Tell me how i got it all wrong..

Can't help you with that. You responded to something you read right here, generalized that to an opportunity to make negative comments about something you think you remember having heard long ago.

I don't think there's anything negative or political about the use of NDN, but I'm only 76 so my memories probably don't go back as far as yours....and I do shoot with a lot of Navajo people.

Pretty common use for years around the Yakama Rez and other places in Washington. Usually just ndn, not capitals like I typed. Here's a site that shows that. They just posted the relay race winners at Muckleshoot.

Funny thing is,,you seem to keep implying im older than you..LOL...I have no issues with the Term Indian or NDN and neither do any of the real NDN's i ever grew up around,in the lower 48..Its just the Millennial Generation,that seems to,take issue with the term..Dont even get me started,on "Native American"".....LOL

Going to NALS, Traxx? I'm not. Had lunch with Dave Doran's widow, Nancy, last Wednesday. She is still back East. Just got back from Uganda.

Larry, wish you were going to NALS it would be great to visit again.

Todd how are you doing?

Nope, not going to NALS this year Larry....Gettin better Jeff and back to work..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Genocide

...worth remembering when we think about "Ishi".

IMO it's stupid to damn an entire age group ("millennials") if we want both archery and bowhunting to appeal to young people...to prosper into the future.

Pretty sure the vast majority of that generation will not read that comment or care,

The question is:what are YOU doing to recruit younger folks into our chosen sport?——not just jk-all of us

Larry give our best to Nancy should you see her again.

StikBow, I'm not "recruiting" any youth (I shoot several Navajo 3DS every year... ALWAYS involves youth and often grandkids).

I'm Christian: archery/bowhunting isn't sacred, it's social, fitness, and recreation/competition like baseball...we all know that for a very few it's also a practical way to feed families (which explains wheels). That we (LW) regularly damn an age group is opposite of recruiting...it's destructive, backward. That age group deserves respect for focus on family and career, as well as success in hunting (and Olympics).

I wrote a response, deleted it. We were talking about Ishi before the thread was redirected

I seldom visit this forum anymore, but thought, what the heck lets crawl out of my hole and see what's going on at the Leatherwall.

Now I know why I stayed in my hole so long LOL!!!!

Geeze the guy just wanted to know about hunting around deer creek.

I've hunted near there several times long ago. If my memory serves me, its pretty darn hot up there during archery season and the deer where sparse. Aside from that, I remember the hunts fondly because of the fine company and adventure of the experience.

Crawling back into my hole now........

No sherwood,,you are exactly the type response,the op was looking for,,,Its unfortunate that others cannot stick to the topic,and use Second hand knowledge,to debate a subject,that they only have third hand knowledge,as their basis for debate..

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