I had another homemade rest on here before this one and it developed the same groove. I didn't think much about it,but decided today I'd make another one. Well,this one is obviously made out of foam that is way to soft but the first two I tried today had poor arrow flight and this one did as well until it ate the groove and now they fly great. Obviously,I'm going to have to replace it soon,but why is it doing it at all and should I just cut a groove in a harder material to begin with?

Thanks, Matt

Torqueing the arrow downward when drawing? I had a friend that did that ..you could see a noticeable bend in the arrow at full draw!

It is probably the quill on the feather that is doing the damage not the arrow. You see it alot when the quill is too high and it digs in.

If it is a super soft rest then it could just be getting grooved, but it is unlikely.

I just got some gateway feathers that are tearing up my rest right now. Its pretty disappointing because I like their feathers.

You probably know that when an arrow is released with fingers, the nock end moves down, I used to know why. That is why the nocking point is usually set 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch above perpendicular. I suspect that the arrow is cutting the groove until it clears easily.

Also, the arrow seems to be positioned far from the felt plate. Do the arrows fishtail from side to side in flight? They usually ride right along the plate. Bareshaft tuning will answer all of these questions. ACS Bows or Fender Archery have good guides.

SB,I'm not torquing the arrow.I used to do that but now I'm shooting three under and not touching the arrow at all

Rick,it could be the feathers,but they are straight fletched and the cock feather is straight out and above the rest when on the string...but maybe

if it is the feathers,I guess I could just make a rest out of harder material and notch it like that

Gray Goose,bareshafts and broadheads group with the fieldtips. Also,the arrow sits next to the plate when at full draw ( I suspect that'll change shortly if the rest gets eaten any more

are you using a double nok?

well,I tried to post a different pic,but Leatherwall seems to really like that one,lol

That bow is set up to shoot a flipper, and a plunger.

I mean no disrespect. but I agree with bassman either put a flipper rest & plunger or a rug rest & side plate...what you have there is a half a55 combination of the two

That bow is set up to shoot a flipper, and a plunger.

Exactly.

The arrow rest should be higher so the arrow height is inline with that plunger hole.

Shooting it like you are has the tiller all out of whack.

Looks like you have made an adjustable side plate; if so, it should work fine.

I don't know what spine arrows you're shooting, the weight of the bow, the length of the arrows, where your nock set is or where you have the center shot set, so I can't help you at all.

From what I see, I would guess your arrows are acting waaaaay to stiff.

It's a home made rest made from what? If is not a piece of wood under the rug, that usage is almost normal since the arrow nock is very high from what I see and the arrow slides first before living the string.

Skipping all the technical stuff.

How do the arrows fly after it is worn in?

Does the wear stop at a certain point?

We can argue technicalities all day long. The real thing about any shooting is consistency. If it wears to a certain point, then stops, AND shoots well let it ride.

Is the inside hen feather positioned at the 4:00 oclock position? Try some powder on it and if it is the culprit try rotating to cock feather in.

Why must he have a flipper and plunger? Mine shoot just fine without. :)

You don't need a flipper and a plunger. My wife shoots a 25 inch Win&Win riser of the shelf with no problem. Look at all the people shooting warfed compound risers off the shelf with no problem.

Furniture pads would hold up better, but you still might be another problem.

Hard to really tell state of tuning from a picture, but I think your arrow may be to stiff.

Aside from state of tuning, my observations are:

(1) Your shelf pad is to wide.

(2) Your shelf pad is not tall enough. On that wide shelf bow, you need to get that pad up to the berger button hole.

I'll post some picture following this, showing how I do mine.

Rick

And what it looks like after lots (lots as in probably several thousand shots).

Oh, and P.S.

Shoot with your cock feltch "IN" at 90 degrees to the riser.

Rick

Exactly...

if you build the shelf up high enough let's say 1/2" to utilize the plunger hole with a ground down bolt & Velcro well ??? now you've lost the arrow as close to your hand as possible advantages of shooting off the shelf I.m.o. what he's got is a combination of the two WITHOUT the benefits of either... and like Jimmy Blackmon said (I can tune a telephone pole with a flipper rest & plunger)

There is "zero" advantage "for me" to have the arrow close to my hand as apposed to being 1/2" above it. I shoot the same either way.

BUT, I love the way the "higher" gives me better fletching clearance, so that's what I run with when I can.

Even on my BW bows with narrow shelves, I have always built the shelf up a little.

Rick

The arrow doesn't have to sit right above your hand to shoot "instinctive". I've used elevated rests for years and have shown it's okay to have them above the shelf.

Bows are tillered from the pivot (center) of the bow and the plunger hole is well above that anyway. You don't need to have a plunger and rest, you can shoot any bow off the shelf, but that shelf/plate looks cut well past center so that's part of the dynamic of getting arrows tuned. Arrows that cause issues with the riser or arrow plate simply are dragging across them and you are not tuned. You need to start over with the tuning.

What George just said:

Rick

I agree with Jim Casto Jr. need bow weight, arrow length and spine etc.

Put a Bear weatherest on it and be done with it.

Your arrows may be well tuned, but as i stated earlier, with the hen feather at 4 oclock and such a wide shelf, fletching contact is a good possibility.

Guys leave a space between shelf and sideplate for fletch to clear, but its been my experience that clearance issues usually happen further out near the outside edge of the shelf. The arrow is flexing around the riser at that point. As Rick did you can modify the shelf to accommodate and as we've stated try cock feather in.

Goerge has the answer you're not tuned.

If you shoot a bare and a fletched shaft (groups of) you'll see the bare are impacting left of the fletched.

In addition, the NP is off and I'm not prepared to guess which way.

You are torqueing the string - we all do and that affects the NP.

Figure both the up and the down and L and R with www.fenderarchery.com/blogs/archery-info/basic-tuning

Bowmania

http://www.arrowskp.com/site/3036a979aec04 2048e599a3cf4a0604e/default? url=http%3A%2F%2Farrowskp.com%2FKelly_s_Ti ps.html#2676

Good info here on feather clearance.

ok,I'm shooting 40# (a little less with my 27" draw) 32" 400 spine carbons with 150 gr up front.

Broadheads,fieldtips and bare shafted field tips all fly to the same spot.

I may be torqing the string,but I'm not touching the arrow(not saying you are wrong,just clarifying)

Rick,I'll try a setup like yours,what material did you build that out of?

I don't see where I need a flipper,I want something solid and silent,and I'll get it figured out eventually. Thanks for the advice from all so far!

and I was shooting cock feather out,I'll try in next time.

I just can’t see how 400s wouldn’t be way too stiff for your setup.

MP

The original question, about the groove being torn out of the soft foam, is easy: its the hen feather. Use a rest that is narrower so only the shaft sits on it and the hen feather will clear the rest - no grove. Use a harder wide shelf and the hen will bump the rear end of the arrow up just a smidge as it passes over the rest. As for other sets ups using plungers, adjustable rests, stick on rests, etc., that's a different question.

I agree with mdph. less than 40#s & 400s with 150 points hmmmm only if it's SR limbs on that bow

So you're shooting a 38# bow with 400 spined shafts and only 150 grains up front and you're getting perfect arrow flight? Have you bare shaft tuned?

I would move the nock point up to .75 inches above horizontal and add a lower nock point under the arrow nock.

Going by your photos razorhunter, I'd add that it might help to have the highest point of your shelf bump directly above the bow handle pivot point. It looks like your present setup has it by the most forward plunger hole.

Going by your photos razorhunter, I'd add that it might help to have the highest point of your shelf bump directly above the bow handle pivot point. It looks like your present setup has it by the most forward plunger hole.

Not sure why the double posts, I entered it ONCE.

My shooting, about 8 years into the process, took a big jump when I learned how the Olympic archers shoot. They strive for 90 percent of the draw weight on their middle finger. That clears up a lot of issues. Of course it takes a lot more work than changing equipment. But then equipment issues are not the problem, eh.

DDave

Some foams are not friction friendly, and will not be good no matter what.

400's are to stiff. 500's may be okay, 600's probably the best bet.

Why a plunger, a plunger allows you to make adjustments for improved flight due to spine/point weight/ shaft length issues.

I'm going to try this out tomorrow,I'll let ya'll know how it worked

I have no idea why it posted it sideways,It's straight on my computer

Nock point too low was my first thought. Lots of great ideas by more knowledgeable guys than myself though.

Because you are way the heck over spined to start with.

And the high point of your rest should be under the rear plunger hole. Tha's where the pivot point of the grip is at.

And whatever you have on the sight window is sticking out from the bow what 1/8" or more? That's making alreay stiff arrows even more stiff.

And, you're torquing the bow, the string, or both. Tha's why the arrow rest is wearing a channel in the middle.

Best bet is to get you some .600 or .700 spine arrows or some 300gr. field points. 300 grs. MIGHT be enough.

The bare and fletched arrows may all be grouping together, but it isn't in line with the draw/force line of the bow.

I'm only selfbow shooter so I have know idea what a flipper or plugger is. To me I'm thinking to stiff of arrow and probably to low of knock point on string. I shoot almost all my bows off knuckles. I bareshaft for spine weak or stiff. When I get that set up I set knock point on string at about 90degrees and slowly move up until I don't even feel arrow on my knuckles. Then it's perfectly quiet. If I hear or feel arrow something is wrong with the way I tuned arrow to bow. But when I do this method I usually don't have anything wrong.

I don't know if any of that helps but good luck finding answers to your problem.

Bjrogg

fdp,it sounds like you're a little bit aggressive there buddy. I'm just trying to get my bow right,I don't need a good scolding,lol

ok,I just went and shot it and you may all be correct that the arrows are too stiff.....but the bare shaft always hits to the right of the fletched one,and I see it turn that way in flight with the shelf like it is right now. (with the other soft foam shelf they flew well and everything to the same spot) I believe ya'll when you say they are too stiff,but I can't make them show it....I moved the strike plate to the left(same)I put 100gr tips on (same) so I have no idea what's wrong with it

fdp,I reread what you posted...I may have read waaay too much into that...sorry about that!

I was just looking at goldtip's spine chart and they say 400's are what I need,they don't recommend 500's until 30" arrows Now,I'm not saying that a spine chart is correct,I'm just saying that's what it says,lol

so does Win&Win's and 3 Rivers....don't take this the wrong way,guys.I'm not saying any of you are wrong,ya'll have been doing this for years and years and I trust ya'll,I'm just wondering why all the spine charts are overspining me....How the heck is someone supposed to select the proper spine?

razorhunter,

1) ignore the charts,

2) share as much data about your setup, pictures and videos of yourself shooting; ask for recommendations BEFORE buying a dozen arrows; borrow others' arrows to test/shoot.

3) listen to the advice you've already been given here -- these fellas have learned thru trial and error: hundreds of thousands of shots, and thousands of hours tuning in aggregate.

And, keep up the great attitude -- you'll be so happy with a well-tuned bow & arrows and improved shooting form to boot!!

All arrow charts are going to suggest a stiffer shaft. It's a liability if you use a weak shaft and get hurt off what they recommend. Even a local archery shop will give you stiffer shafts. But that's why we bare shaft tune.

That bow is set up for a plunger and flipper. With that set up you can easily tune those stiffer shafts.My vintage bows I use a stick on rest. My self bows I shoot off the shelf.

razorhunter, once you're done with your arrow rest, could you post up a photo of your arrow resting on the shelf? (the drawing below is what I'm describing) It would be interesting to see where the arrow point lays in relationship to the median plane of the bow string.

Razorhunter, the above diagram is what I described in my PM to you. AND now Mr. Alaniz can't say anything about somebody lending you arrows.

Bowmania

I agree the charts are WAY stiff but you asked for advice yet don't seam to want to except it. I'm shooting a converted to ilf Hoyt riser with Morrison max 1 limbs 38# @26" draw & 28"warrior 700 spine with 200 grain points are awsom out o1f my bow

iv had this riser for over 35 years it's a Hoyt ram reflex recurve I killed my first trad deer with this bow 35 years ago notice where I slightly rounded the shelf for when I shot off the shelf. & when I did I had a rounded peice of wood 1/4 from the corner with Velcro over that then a strike plate with a toothpick behind that & a trough for the 5 o'clock feather to pass through. now iv had the riser converted to ilf installed a flipper - plunger & it's shooting great & looking foward to killing a deer with my new old bow

george, its not traditional to shoot with a rest...dont you know that? you seasoned archers were doing it all wrong back in the day.

Back to the original question...the groove in your rest is likely caused by downward pressure as you draw the bow and when the shaft is first released. After the arrow travels a few inches on release it flexes around the riser and the majority of the shaft, including the fletching, will flex outside the shelf.

Typically when arrows are too stiff the rear near the fletching will hit the edge of the shelf and cause noticeable wear along the edge.

i,I'll post a pic if I ever get it worked out,lol

Timex,not trying to ignore advice,just askin' a question or two along the way...and trying to not buy different arrows,but it looks like I'm either going to have to buy new arrows or heavier limbs,lol

Bowmania,thanks again!

speaking of heavier limbs,how heavy would they need to be to use 400 spine full length arrows with 150 gr points?

55ish lbs.

Flash,Thanks

So,I need new arrows....what spine do ya'll recommend for 38#@27" full length with 150 gr heads? Also,could I shoot the same arrows with a 45# bow (43#@27")?

Thanks for the advice in advance!!

Kevin nice illustration and exactly what happens.

Lancaster archery supply sells individual shafts buy 1 700 spine shaft I think you'll be surprised & a side note iv never been a fan of heavy point weights but as I keep going lighter in bow #s & subsequent arrow spine I'm finding that I'm up to 200 & 225 point weight to get the gpp I want & the heavy points on a light shaft hit surprisingly hard. I'm no foc guru but it's way up there

I would test with 600 and 700. Hard to say whether the same arrow will work out of two bows.

[[[ "what spine do ya'll recommend for 38#@27" full length with 150 gr heads?" ]]]

To shoot full length (32") you are going to need .500's to work with your specs, and desired point weight. Even then you may have to cut them down a little, to like around 31.75".

``````````````

[[[ "Also,could I shoot the same arrows with a 45# bow (43#@27")?" ]]]

Yes, but they will have to be set farther "outside" center, than on the 38#er.

Build the .500's up they way you want them, then tune them to the 38#er. After you've done that, then shoot them from the 43#er while adjusting center shot placement, until you get where you need to be.

``````````````

Side Note:

Your .400's will work at full length if you bump your point weight up to around 175gr. You'll still have to work with center shot placement, but they can be tuned to shoot just fine there with the point weight raised.

Rick

I recently bought goldtip warrior & carbon express heritage shafts & both measured 30" but whatever I tried to help...good luck & I hope ya get it figured out

Timex,thanks for the heads up on the "full length"

from what I can see,the full length changes at the 600 spine,so should I get 32" 500 spine or 30" 600?

[[[ "from what I can see,the full length changes at the 600 spine,so should I get 32" 500 spine or 30" 600?" ]]]

30" of .600's with 150 grain up front is still going to be considerable weak, but will work just fine if cut them shorter (probably 29" +/- a little.

Of course a lot will depend on the weight & diameter of the shafts you choose.

Rick

Rick Barbee:

***To shoot full length (32") you are going to need .500's to work with your specs, and desired point weight. Even then you may have to cut them down a little, to like around 31.75".***

***Your .400's will work at full length if you bump your point weight up to around 175gr. You'll still have to work with center shot placement, but they can be tuned to shoot just fine there with the point weight raised.***

***30" of .600's with 150 grain up front is still going to be considerable weak, but will work just fine if cut them shorter (probably 29" +/- a little.***

fdp:

***Best bet is to get you some .600 or .700 spine arrows or some 300gr. field points. 300 grs. MIGHT be enough.***

I'm shooting full length 400's with 150gr up front I want to shoot full length,so is it better to drop some point weight on some 500's or add some to some 400's? I also must not be able to bare shaft tune,because my bare shaft ALWAYS goes to the right of my fletched shaft,indicating a weak spine and I know that's not correct (even does it when I shoot 100gr's up front,so I know it's wrong) I just went and shot it and my broadhead and field tips group together,but the bare shaft is still to the right

Try using archery rest material instead of felt..raise your nocking point, rotate your feather location.

now I'm confused

Timex, me too, lol

I could go up to 45# limbs, I was thinking about going up in weight, anyway

razorhunter...did you strip everything off the side plate/sight window and star over? Are you aligning the entire arrow from string through the point of the arrow with the target?

Jim Ploen called this process you are experiencing "chasing spine".

fdp,I've only got a furniture pad on it now,very similar to K Cummings set up.And yes,I have the string blur just to the right of the arrow and I think I'm looking down the whole length. I'm getting better flight with the cock feather out than in. I'm not getting quite as good of flight now as I was with the soft foam,but it doesn't seem to be wearing,either.

two field tips and a broadhead in the group,then the bare shaft to the right.....the group wasn't always that tight,but always that pattern

Okay,thats a massive difference. Got something going on with your form. Wild ass guess, released in a forward motion.

Looks very much like fletching contact. I'd bet just about anything on it.

On many occasion, I've been there, done that, and even often "intentionally played with it" with many different orientations, and combinations, just to see the differences.

Any time your bareshafts fly relatively good (even if a little stiff/weak), but your fletched shafts fly off one direction or the other, there's only one thing to be causing it - (fletching contact).

Generally, your arrows will shoot a little stiffer fletched, than they do bare shaft due to the additional tail weight the fletching adds, but it isn't by much.

Now, that don't mean there isn't something in your form, that might be amplifying the issue, but the issue is there regardless.

Rick

Right from the start wrong arrow too stiff!

What distance is that group shot from?

I really don't understand why folks are so allergic to starting out with a bare shelf/sight window to see if an arrow will shoot at all from a particular bow. If it prints right for a eft handed shooter, you move ths ide plae left. If it prints right, add more weight or change spines.

Are you aiming all of those arrows in the same spot, and if so, where are you aiming? Where the fletched group is or the bareshaft?

Rick, the bare shaft pretty much flies trail sideways to the target

Fdp,20 yards

The bottom line is - we (none of us) can really put a (for sure) finger on any other issue you may be having without seeing you shoot.

I'm trying to look at the "whole picture" using the information you have provided. I'm not saying your arrows aren't to stiff, but I am saying there's more trouble there than just a spine issue.

One simple fact of the matter is: With the type of riser you have there, you can make even very out of spine range arrows fly pretty good, and even accurate, but bad form, and fletching contact throws that all out the window.

There are more pieces to the puzzle, than what we are seeing here. It might be time for us to see some video of you shooting, to include video of your arrows flying away from you, and specifying where you are trying to make them hit on your target.

We're all trying to help here, even when we argue among ourselves about it. LOL

Rick

I know you're all trying to help, and I appreciate it, too

I'll try to get a video of me shooting soon

Thank You all for the help!

Get rid of the whole soft shelf idea. Serves no purpose. Replace with something skinny and hard, like a 1/8" wide strip of rawhide.

[[[ Get rid of the whole soft shelf idea ]]]

^^I agree wholeheartedly with this.^^

I use a piece of wood to build up my shelf.

The velcro covering on that wood is thin, and primarily just to cut down on noise.

The velcro does wear very well though, and is slick to draw the arrow over.

Rick

I re did my shelf yesterday again with velcro . This time I cut a piece 1/8"x1/4" to put under the covering perpendicular to the arrow up from deep part of handle . I think it's makes it more spongy. Time will tell.

Ok,here ya go....but I think it's gonna be like taking a car to the mechanic...whatever I was doing to make the bare shaft fly right,I'm not doing in the video,because it's grouping with the fletched ones

Ok,here ya go....but I think it's gonna be like taking a car to the mechanic...whatever I was doing to make the bare shaft fly right,I'm not doing in the video,because it's grouping with the fletched ones

https://youtu.be/6R6J93wQPWo

Great, now your arrows are showing stiff, as they should. I'm thinking my wild guess was correct?

heck,I don't know what I was or wasn't doing,honestly....I shot some more after that and it never did it.....I don't THINK I was doing that,but who knows?

razorhunter - I just watched your video and every arrow you nocked onto the string gave out (to me, mind!) a LOUD click.

I'm only going by what the audio shows, am not standing next to you but my dear boy, I swear your nocks are horrendously tight.

As an aside to your original post, tight nocks, well, there's a problem unto itself. Most of us measure nock tightness by tapping the bow string with the side of the index finger and seeing if the arrow parts the string.

Just wanted to throw this out as an additional tidbit for your 'tool box' of arrow tuning tools.

Plus 1 for i's observation.

Sounds and LOOKS like you're having to push those nocks on with some force.

i and Trader,they are definitely tight....I haven't adjusted them at all,but I've always hated nocks that were looser....that's one thing I'll try to leave like it is,as I've dropped a few arrows out of a tree,lol If I straighten out all my other problems and tight fitting nocks are holding me back from being a lot better archer,I'll loosen up a bit (I'm not being sarcastic,I just really would have to see that the nocks were messing me up to change 'em)

"I just really would have to see that the nocks were messing me up to change 'em"

I understand what you're saying but correct nock fit really needs to be part & parcel of your basic initial tuning. And lots of people are using two threaded nocking points, one above and one below the arrow nock. Helps a bit to retain the arrow, even if you're up in the tree tops :)

There are a few good vids out there that show how to tie these up and they're nifty because one can 'screw' them up and down the centre serving to adjust nock height.

Your form looks pretty good.

I would jump up 25 grains in point weight and try again.

Or lower your brace height by about 3 twist at a time and try that.

i,after further examination,I'll concede that they are too tight. I can actually hold the bow up with it,lol

How do I loosen them gradually? Emory board?

I agree. Your form don't look bad, and yes your nocks are to tight.

I was hoping to be able to see & analyze the arrow flight, but not really able to see it well, even at 1/4 speed. As far as I can tell it don't look bad either.

(Before you do anything else, get your nocks fitting properly, and see how things work then.)

The best way I have found (for me) to adjust a nock for fit is to heat it in boiling water. Leave them in the arrows, stick them (just the nock) in boiling water for 10 - 15 seconds, and while they are hot clip them on one end of the serving where the serving is tied off. Let them cool for 10 - 15 seconds while clipped on there, and they should give you a real good fit when you clip them on at the nocking point.

Rick

Yup what Rick said. Reason for clipping them on the end of serving is the serving will be a couple thousands thicker there.

Thanks, i'll try the boiling water trick

I went back out and filmed some more, but i'm not sure if you'll be able to see any better.... maybe next time it's sunny I'll try to get the camera positioned over my right shoulder

I'm glad to hear that my form isn't awful, too

Thanks for all the help, guys..... sorry i'm so stubborn, lol

ok,I shot this video yesterday,so the nocks are still tight (actually,I haven't loosened up yet,but I haven't shot yet,either,lol) another angle of me shooting and some arrows flying towards the camera

Thanks for looking!

https://youtu.be/6vmKHpkVAwE

Arrows definitely look like they have a little bit of a left hook( stiff) to them.

Getting your nocks fitting properly will solve some of that, then we can go from there.

Rick

You are why I am here. Spine of arrow depends on the way you grab the string. Film your self.

Rick, thanks, i'll keep ya posted

Little Billy, explain what you mean?

Well,I'm no Robin Hood,but I'm happy with my shooting I had furniture pads for a rest with this group

but they,too were wearing so I put a piece of wood that was barely wide enough for the arrow to sit on and shot cock feather in. seemed to do pretty well,but my nock point is wrong and the harder rest shows it.I've messed up and got the brass nock points on so tight I can't move them.If I decided to go for a flipper and plunger,what do ya'll recommend for hunting?

Check lancaster archery, they have them.

Did you loosen your nocks, and get them fitting properly?

Rick

I asked this earlier on this thread. I know you are shooting at 20 yards I get that. But, are you aiming that bareshaft and the fletched arrows at the same spot? If you aren't aiming the bareshaft and the fletched arrows at the same spot (meaning trying to put all of them, bare and fletched, in the same group) all that you know right now is that you have 3 fletched arrows that match.

Also, did you loosen the nocks as as Rick suggested?

The group posted today doens't look any different then the group posted on the 18th.

Rick,I did loosen the nocks.....I had to use the edge of a spoon to do so,because they wouldn't loosen very much at all by boiling and putting on the end of the serving....but yes,they are much looser

fdp,I'm aiming for the same spot with the fletched arrows and the bare shaft

Thanks,guys!

It looks like the barehaft and the fletched arrows are separated by about 12" with the bareshaft being 12" to the left. Is that correct?

no,the bareshaft is about that far to the right.....confusing to me,as I know that it's overspined....when I did the video,the bareshaft hit pretty much with the fletched arrows,and I have no idea what I was doing differently.....bareshaft almost always flies way to the right

You have an alignment/form/concictency issue. I can't get the video to play. But, if when you made the video, you were grouping bare and fletched together, and now you aren't, you are doing something drastically different to have that much separation between those arrows.

I actually meant to type that the bareshaft was to the right of the fletched.

At this point I would suggest that all you concentrate on is getting the bareshaft, and the fletched arrows to all group together. When you get that worked out, and your form is solid, then revisit the tuning piece.

You may want to shoot through paper,so you can see what your arrows are doing. Are you hitting where you want with fletched arrows? Have you shot with broadheads?

I agree that I'm doing something wrong,but I have no idea what it may be.....plucking the string should make it go to the left,correct?

There are a number of things that could be causing it. My guess is that landing on plucking the string is over analyzing the issue. I'm still pretty convinced that it's an alignment thing. Especially since a couple of folks indicated that your form looked good in the video. Concentrate on having the entire arrow from back to front pointed at the target. Don't pay any attention to where they land in relation to the target. Just work on getting them all together.

There could be fletching contact as Rick indicated earlier, but one would think that you would ahve seen that in the video.

Flash,I'm hitting pretty good with fletched arrows and broadheads are hitting with the fieldtips

honestly,I'm pretty happy with my consistency and ability to hit the target....I would just like to get it tuned in

fdp,I'll concentrate on that tomorrow.Thanks,Man

That's definitely consistent shooting. Looks like your bare shaft and fletched arrows are nice and straight in the target. Almost seems like your aiming differently when shooting bare vs fletched. Is your arrow inside of center shot? There looks like an awful lot of shelf outside your arrow.

Just to be clear, I think that you are shooting very well.

thanks Flash. the bareshafted arrow turns almost sideways (tail left) about halfway to the target and planes to the right. I have no doubt it's something I'm doing,but I have no idea what it may be....my bow arm is completely extended,I've concentrated on keeping my fingers close to my face and pulling through the shot. I feel like my form is pretty decent and that I'm pulling with my back muscles.I'm shootin better than I personally have ever shot. so,like I said,I have no idea what I'm doing

also,I was just outside of centershot (to the left).

Razorhunter just wondering why you shoot 32" arrows with your 27" draw? Not a criticism at all- just curious. I've always cut my arrows so that the rear of a broadhead doesn't quite touch my finger at full draw. With your specs I'd be shooting 600's with a chunk lopped off the end:) JayInOz

It makes it easy to get a close "point on" distance and adds weight for a quieter bow and harder hitting arrow (in my opinion,anyway)

is it only with this bow that bare shafts impact different than fleched perhaps shoot a different bow & see if the results are the same or different also have you checked string & limb alignment of the bow. and lastly have even tried a 700 spine shaft.once again I think you'd be surprised maybe even enlightened

are you still shooting .400s with 150gr points out of a 38@27 bow ???

if the answer is yes I think you are so overspined that you are actually getting an opposite bare shaft reading similar to the knock to low description in the a&h tunning guide

To be having all the problems you describe, I can't help but notice that the bare-shaft is stuck into your backstop awfully straight, more so than your fletched arrows.

You need to rotate those hen feathers if your arrows were fletched with a Bixzenburger..that bottom hen feather will eat into your arrow rest if it is not slanted correctly..Means putting new nocks on..

OK,I just bought some 500's,put the 150 gr tips on them....and....the same.I mean a carbon copy bare shaft still way to the right(the same amount)

I give up with the bare shaft tuning for now.

the 400's and the 500's group extremely well for me

broadheads hit pretty much with the field tips....right now I'm just shooting field tips anyway,and when hunting season gets closer,I'm going to get some 50# limbs anyway

Don't overthink this.

You have all those fletched shafts in the yellow.

"What the hell more ya want them to do?"

On a side note, adding feathers to a bare shaft makes it act a little stiffer.

You are done and ya did well.

Just have fun and shoot.

RC,I agree....I'm happy with the bow,I'm tired of tuning. I'm just gonna shoot while I have some hair left

Atta Boy..

^5

Razorhunter, I enjoyed the heck out of this thread. Good job from one relocated Georgian to another.

Thanks,Tlhbow

If that #2 spot is where you were wanting the arrows to go from 20 yards, then I don't see any reason to continue fussing with it, especially since you say the broadheads go right in there with the field points.

Still puzzles me about the difference between bareshaft, and fletched, but there's only so much you can do/see on the interweb.

Rick

Maybe the field point or nock isn't glued in straight?

Rick,I appreciate all the advice....and I'm sure I'll be needing more of it!

Hey razorhunter I just had a scathingly brilliant idea:) Work out which feather is cutting into your rest- and cut it off! Shoot a group and let us know how it works out:) Here to help brudda:) JayInOz

JayInOz,I'm just going to cover my shelf with AR500 steel ;-D

Stainless fletches maybe? Could affect FOC a tad. I'll ponder some more...... JayInOz

razor blades for fletching,ar500 rest,damascus steel shafts....gonna be kinda dangerous and slightly heavy

On the bright side- wind drift won't be a problem:) JayInOz P.S.- In about half an hour I'm going to kill and butcher a three hundred and fifty pound saddle back pig on my own. My evening is about to turn into a big bag of suck. J.

So this is what replaced psychoanalysis.

I hope we get a final report on the outcome and if the problem got resolved. No more shelf wear?

Overspined arrows with really tight nocks, combined with low string nocking point would cause lots of problems! It would be really noisey, too.

I encountered similar issues with a young shooter recently. He was also badly over-bowed with the 45 pound recurve his dad bought online and gave him for Christmas... And it was a right-handed bow the kid was trying to shoot left- handed!

Twostrings,

"Relax.... now, think of the perfect bow in your mind... describe the bow to me"

"That's interesting"

"Nurse Ratchet, I have a special tenant that I feel will be staying with you for a long while"

Lol

Backcountry,I'll keep ya'll posted....I did loosen the nocks up

Thanks--that's how we learn!

Why are you using glue-on nocks? With inserts you could just rotate the nocks.

Is there any advantage at all, ever, with glue-on nocks and carbon or aluminum arrows?

Don’t worry about it. When you add feathers and their weight it willnstiffen your spine. You are fine.

ok,I hate quitting...I was just frustrated yesterday now,time for ya'll to pull your hair out. I decided that I was going to move my strike plate so far to the left that the bare shaft HAD to hit to the left....I also checked the tiller.I'm new to ILF,so before now,tiller was whatever it was.my top limb was closer to the string than the bottom one,so I evened them out.(I shoot three under) also,I'm shooting straight off the shelf just went and shot,and I found that the bare and fletch hit either in the same spot,or the bare hits slightly to the right (usually within two to three inches,which is about as well as I can shoot,anyway) but it's ALWAYS to the right,so I'll probably go a tiny bit further out with my plate. Guys,I have no idea why what should be stiff arrows are acting weak,and I believe what you are all saying,but I've finally got them to hit close,anyway

and I'm not using glue-on nocks,jk

The nock end of the bare shaft could be kicking off the side plate and sending the arrow to the right.

Throw that bare shaft away and just shoot and have fun:)

RC,I agree.....but it wasn't frustrating me today,lol

RC I believe you are correct...as I said twice earlier I think your SO stiff that your actually getting a week bare shaft reading. I think instead of the slightly stiff shaft plaining slightly to the left (knock right) what's happening is the overly stiff shaft is deflecting off the riser kicking the knock end of the shaft left giving a (FALSE KNOCK LEFT) indication. perhaps you should check out the Clay Hayes YouTube video how to tune recurves & longbows

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