What do you consider to be more important when looking for a new bow? Is it the the bow itself or the reputation and track record of the bowyer? For me a bow is only as good as the man or women who stands behind it. Some bowyers have a stellar reputation for not only building a great bow but for being honest, reliable, and all around stand-up guys. For me, a bow is only 40 percent of the equation.

What are your thoughts?

For me it is the bow. There are people who can rant and rave over how good a particular bowyer's bow is. I shoot it and may not care for it for one reason or another. That is why if you can, shoot one before you buy it. DANNY

Any bowyer who has been in business for a decade or more is likely trustworthy and capable. There are literally hundreds of guys who can build a great bow. I really don't care who makes it an some of the old manufacturers had over a dozen bowyers working for them and produced wonderful bows.

The bow has to fit or it's not worth having...no matter who built it. You know when you have one in your hand and shoot it. Up until you do that, everything is what someone else thinks.

It's the bow, knowing the bowyer is an upstanding guy and craftsman is nice, but no matter the cost or reputation, if it don't fit, it ain't no good for me!

I think it is both. A bowyer that has been doing this for decades and designs a bow obviously the bow design is a result of the bowyers ability and knowledge. Now this is for a custom made bow - not referring to those made on a machine. I guarantee you no one can build a JD berry bow like James Berry, a Bruin bow like Mike S., a Caribow like Abe P., etc... and I would say the same about many of the other bowyers.

For me it is mostly the bowyer. I recently ordered a popular bow and after the many delalys, excuses, and broken promises, I will not buy from him again. He can make an extremely good bow, but treating customers poorly will be his demise.

No matter how much you like the person or respect his work and designs,when a bow comes apart as you are making a shot(not making a shot) or develops a crack after a year of practice.It's the bow that is important.I like outstanding performance and beautiful workmanship but the bowyer that provides reliability gets my respect.I own 2 recurves from the same (now retired) bowyer.One is a good solid bow/the other is magic...go figure.

It has to be both for the shooter to win in the end.

In the early days of blacktail some were good, some were dogs. I know as I had 7 in my closet. Then a magic wond would show up. since Norm went to CC machines they were the same. Same with bighorn. I stopped both with bighorn then to BT when they got bigger. I was less important to them.

I agree---its both. Finding a great bowyer that is good to work with, stands behind their product, and makes a bow that fits you and your style and you've got it made. I think there are many great choices out there, but its no secret that I'm a huge Toelke fan.

It is the bow. I have had several customs from top names where the workmanship and quality weren't there. Only place I know of where the bow and all other components of customer service are there is Black Widow.

I agree it is both. Luckily for me I started out with a bowyer who makes superb, truly custom bows and customer service that could not be better. He doesn't need my endorsement but it's Dan Toelke and his son, Jared. "It doesn't get any better" is a somewhat worn out accolade but it certainly applies.

I think it is both also, I am into carving out my own, but if I wanted to order a custom laminated, I would get it from Craig Akin.

Self=bow: it would be from Pearl Drums, if he would do that.

Same with Gregg Coffey. Class bows and a really great person. Communication Is everything. If you feel uncomfortable asking questions or feel dismissive attttude, look else where. Question everything.

Both. The design of the bow is what will make me want to own one, but if the bowyer can't be contacted or keeps pushing the dates back, it will make me less likely to purchase another from them. Another situation that I have been witness to is when a new bowyer takes over for an established bowyer, the quality can suffer. I haven't seen this when it is an experienced bowyer taking over, but it lends credence to the idea that the bowyer matters.

I believe the bowyer is just insurance for your purchase. Lots of people are capable of building quality bows, capable of pleasing the most discriminating shooter. There are lots of guys on this site that build really great bows in their garage but have no name recognition or internet fame. That doesn't diminish the quality of the bows they build, just the confidence of the buyer. People want to have approval from their peers and name recognition when the mention the builder or company that made the bow they shoot is part of it. The fact that you have confidence in the bowyer may add to your feeling of it being a great bow but lots of people can build a bow that would feel just as good and shoot just as well...Find a bow that feels good to you and don't worry about who made it.

100% the bow if I am shooting it. To me the "maker" only counts with an investment grade collectible.

For me it's BOTH. But I am the both. Been building my own for so long now can't imagine any other way. My complaint department doesn't put up with anything I can't handle!

if it don't fit,,, forget it. there's to many to pick that do fit to buy one that doesn't.

A simple thought really, I sure wish Brandon was still building bows. And that Norm was not going to retire. And that Jack was my age.

DDave

Oh yeah and that I had met Papa Bear.

If I like the looks of a bow I will try to find out more about it. If its a great bow but some have had a bad experience I will pass. There is always one as good or better with a bowyer you can trust.

X2 camodave. It's not just the bowyer and the bow, it's also the archer and the arrow. Some are better than others. IMHO. So many bows,, so little time.

Idk bout 40%. Sounds like you’re cutting yourself short. Here’s how I’d look at this. Every single bit of my 100% would be about the bow I like. If the fellow wasn’t stand up I’d not consider it. Here’s another way to look at it. You get no credit for being a nice guy if your bow is sub par, certainly not 60% of the weight. Plenty of bow makers. Plenty that stand behind their work and are honest. If you only consider those there’s no percentage but 100% for the work they do. I’m buying no maker but his bows. If he won’t stand behind em he might as well be doing something else cause you’d be stupid to buy em.

Both

It's both.

The bowyer makes the fit that makes the bow.

I like that Mark, so true.

How do you separate the two? Not easily.

I've seen a few instances where ownership of a small bowyer's business has passed to new owners, and it worked out well. It takes a bowyer who can pass on his knowledge, and a new owner who can learn.

If buying custom I'd prefer an experienced maker.

The bow and the maker are important but making a lam bow and making a self bow are two different animals. Making a self bow I think the bowyer is the most important, you can duplicate a lam bow but every self bow is different. Thinking about the bowyer and bow, neither are any good without a good arrow.

I think it's both.It's true there are many good bowyers offering very good bows.However there are those that are exceptional at their craft.They have been at it for many years and have refined their bow designs to the hilt.It's also true that the bow fits and works for you or it doesent.That's the tricky part.Ideally the bowyer will let you try the bow you're interested in for a fee.Or be able to put you in touch with someone nearby who may let you try theirs.

My thoughts are the individual bow is only as good as the bowyer and how the problem is resolved meaning your only as good as your last bow.

I have had many customs built and by the same bowyers in some cases. I only ever had 1 bows that was not resolved to my satisfaction.

Some his fault and some of it was my fault and I lived with it. It was not resolved in my mind to my satisfaction and that was with streaked glass. Rather than take another chance I lived with it. It let him off the hook. Many others he did were great.

Id say thats pretty good odds when I know of other horror stories I herd.

Its best to go with big named bows or be willing to get disappointed possibly.

The individual design and feel for the bow has to comes first. If it doesn't feel right who cares who built it. If the bow maker is new it's a judgment call based on price and the bows performance. I'm not paying top $ to a newbie who hasn't been in business at least 3-5 yrs who may not be in business much longer to back the bow if it fails.

What do you guys have to say about crook like Adcock? The bow design was so good it started another company (or two). Still one of the top longbows for speed.

Bowmania

Only the shooter will know what feels right for him other then that its in the hands of the Holder LoL

the bow for me

Interesting question. The final decision for me is how the bow handles and shoots for me. But the bowyer plays an important role if they have created something new. For example, the O. L. Alcock creates a limb design that offered improved performance that may be important to many shooters. So in that case if the bow fits someone the bowyer is equally important.

The bow I like a lot and shoots well for me was a new design back in 2005. At that time it was the only bow like it on the market. Interestingly the bowyer only designed and built the riser, using commercially available ILF limbs to complete the bow. Without the bowyer the design may have shown up at some point but definitely the bowyer played a key roles.

Before custom bowyers ever made a mass presence, people were shooting perfect scores and killing game very effectively. A custom bowyer can make you a bow...mostly the only custom part of any of their bows is how they fit you. If you think you have the best bowyer in the world, and you are shooting great with the bow, then be happy.

A good bowyer will work with you and warranty their work. Other than that, there is not much that makes their bow heads-above a 1967 Tamerlane or Super Kodiak....or Howatt..or Wing or Pearson. They all do the same thing. If any of those fit you well, that is all you need.

My bowyer is at my beck and call and makes exactly what I want every time, any time I want one, any wood, any style, any color, glass longbows or recurves, snakey osage selfbows, sinewed recurves, yew English longbows, etc, tiller tailored to my shooting, for cost of materials, or even for free. Always fully accountable and available night or day, seven days a week. Full lifetime replacement guarantee on every bow. Any issue? It's immediately replaced with a new one. Great guy to deal with too ;^)

My bowyer is just like Jeff's (except snaky selfbows) and I do like his bows. He just glued one up today for me. - - Marc

Any time you want one Jeff D :-) lol thumbs up. JF

Nice

:^)

For me is the bow design who's making me to want it and the bowyer is the pedigree insurance.

Years ago I bought a custom bow. The wait was three times what was advertised. The draw weight of the bow was at the maximum of the agreed upon weight range. Even the agreed upon average was a mistake but the bowyer would not agree to anything lighter.

The bow was attractive but I could not shoot it well. The shape of the grip made me torque the bow. So I got out a coarse wood rasp and reshaped the grip and then had to refinish the bow. The bow was not cut at all close to center which made arrow spine choice critical. So I again resorted to the wood rasp, got closer to center shot and had to refinish the bow again. After my modifications the bow shot well but was really too heavy for me and I developed some nasty target panic issues.

Now years later I know better. I have an old Hoyt aluminum riser and replacement limbs. I did not like the grip so I replaced it with a custom grip from Jager. The draw weight was a bit heavy so I spent $100 for new limbs. No more custom bows for me! Not when I can buy high quality risers and limbs for a fraction of the cost of custom made items.

Bottom line the bow. I buy mostly used bows. Never been a big fan of having to have a warranty etc. I have seen and shot enough bows to tell if they are good or not. I have got bows from Bowyers that were not good at the business end of things but made killer bows. They may be out of business but I look for their bows. I tell all my artist friends(knife makers and Bowyers) to just make their product and do not get caught up in the custom stuff. Let their creatively blossom. But most get bogged down doing custom work. It is a Market to supply.

I have personally felt that it's the product. Having made a lot of bows, customers speak highly of them. Having never met me personally they couldn't make an accurate assessment of me: the guy who made them. But here's some insight on that subject; I've lived in the town I'm in for nearly 4 years, and I haven't become friends with anyone, if that will tell you anything.

If I were to keep one bow, it would be my Browning Wasp. I don't know who made it.

Mr. Mecredy... same thing here... been here 4.5 years and don't know the names of a host of neighbors I could hit with a slingshot. And yes KPC, at least half are seriously messed up. Man, I could tell you some stories. Never should have moved here.

Truth... next door neighbor's personalized license plate is PSYCHO.

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