Well, I’ve decided to stop putting this off, and I’m jumping into the market for another LB; thinking to go a bit heavier while I still think I can!

I put a WTB as in the classifieds, and I’ve heard from a good number of the guys with great sounding bows and... Frankly, it’s a bit overwhelming!

So I’m looking for advice from those of you who’ve shot a lot of bows and (if I’m lucky) have done at least some of that shooting over a chronograph..

I’m pretty short; so my DL is short of AMO standard 28”, but pretty close to 27”. What I’m hoping to accomplish is to come out of a deal with a longbow that stores and transfers enough more energy than my old Howatt Hunter #55 to make it worth drawing the extra weight. I figure around #60 actual at my draw should do it... that’s about a 10% bump, so with some R/D, a high performance string and around 9 GPP, it seems reasonable.

Doesn’t it?

So what do you know about a modern type LB that would be able to show off its Mojo assuming a shorter draw? Does anyone build a bow that’s optimized for a shorter draw but that can be found in a higher draw weight?

Thanks!

So why not go to a really high performance longbow and get more speed from less weight? Dryad or A&H with ACS technology. Another fast standard design bow is the Toelke Pika but I really have no idea how well your current bow performs though, these I mentioned after just ones that I know are fast for a longbows, centaurs also are pretty quick longbows!

“So why not go to a really high performance longbow and get more speed from less weight? Dryad or A&H with ACS technology.”

I love the idea... but not as much as I love the idea of being able to pay my mortgage!

Looking for suggestions of bows that can be had at a fairly modest price. A Savannah or another Bamboo Viper would probably fit the bill just fine, and for the cost of a used Centaur, Widow or A&H, a guy could get a base-model ILF from Border. But I’m pretty sure I’d have to get a third job to cover that....

Havent shotnit through a crono but look into the old sky rouge bows if you can find one usually around $200 and my #50 is smoking fast. Also love my jk traditions i have a longer draw length myself but have had others shoot the both and they was impressed with both more so the aky though

I don't think your really going to need to go 5 pounds up in poundage to get close to the performance of your Howatt.unless your are looking at and ASL (American style longbow) of mild R&D longbow

I would look at moderate to more radical limbed longbows that have excellent performance and will be in the performance range of your Howatt.

Their are so many choices in longbows these days from a plethora of talented bowyers that make moderate to very aggressive limbed hybrids that rival the performance speed wise of many recurves.Shop around and find one that maximizes the performance of your 27 inch draw.

Black hunter 60" three pc longbow deal of the century

Howatt hunter is fast bow with ff string or even with a B50 or B55 string.I see the Black Hunter on ebay for 102.00. May go by a different name ,but is the same bow. I think that one would fill the bill nicely for what you want. Put a good ff string on it, and I think you would be happy with the results.

Big Jim’s Thunder Child is a great choice for a short LB. I shot with a short draw guy at trad worlds this year that was shooting one..very quick and quiet.

Economically, Kegan’s omega Native is also a great short bow. I shoot with Kegan a lot and get to try all of his prototypes. That little native with the heavy micarta riser is a nice shooter.

I have a couple of pretty quick ones for a short draw but they are not for sale. I would suggest a Robertson Overdrive Primal Styk, it may equal the Howatt at the same draw weight.

Give the Toelkes a call. The Pika is designed to perform at your draw length. Fast and quiet. I love mine!

Just some advice, which you obviously can ignore and likely will. ;) Stay with 55# for two reasons. Number one is you are used to that weight. Number two is it will be easier to sell than 60# if you have to do that.

Now figuring you will ignore my advice, I would look at a hybrid like the Black Hunter which costs less than a dozen carbon arrows does nowadays. They are smooth at your draw, which is the same as mine, and you wouldn't have the jumpiness of a small riser longbow. If you must have a real longbow, than buy a Northern Mist or similar design that doesn't break the bank.

Don't forget Mike at Madddog bows. New custom bow for the price of pretty good used one. You can have Mike make it the way you want it. Woods and weight.etc..

Gf..i have the same draw length as you even tho at 6ft i am fairly tall. I have a Toelk whip and the Pica..great bows, but if you want economy you can't beat the 3pc Black Hunter. You can buy different weight limbs and be money in pocket. I have two of them now.. and love them. Sandy.

I completely agree with George and some of the others about draw weight, Stay where you are.

Truth is you aren't really going to find a bow that performs any better at your draw length then the D/R bows you have now. Yeah there are going to be folks that tell you that this bow blows them away, that bow blows them away, yadda, yadda, yadda, but that's mostly hooey. How many different draw lengths and weight classes did Larry Hatfield set world flight records in with those bows?

If you are in the market for a new bow that's great, but don't think you are going to find something that's head and shoulders above what you're shooting now in the price range you want to stay in. It ain't happenin'.

The Sky Archery Rogue as mentioned is a great bow. I have a 66" 55lb'er that I've had since Earl owned the company. It shoots as well as or better than any other D/R bow of equal design out there today. Does it shoot noticeably better than the 2 you have? Nope.

GF I got a Robertson Purist that's 59# at 28" that's 60 inches. It has a short handle and long limbs and a few love nicks. Make me a reasonable offer and I'll send it to you. If you don't like it send it back. If you like it send me the money.

Here a the nicks

Used Toelke Pika or Whistler. Amazing bows for such a short length. If possible, try before you buy to make sure it’s a great fit for you.

Well, I HAVE been looking at the Blue Light special, but more as a possibility for a lightweight for #2 son and/or the Missus... But they only offer those up to #55... and I’ve got 3 of those already... and a #50. No offense to anyone who likes their Black Hunter, but I don’t think one of those will outperform my Bamboo Viper, even if I spot them the #5.

And I don’t think I’d be willing to put up with the weight of a 3-piece unless it was an ILF - where the weight is the price you pay for tuneability.

OCR - any help you could provide looking up that older thread would be appreciated!

It IS kind of an interesting engineering problem, though... Stored energy can be visualized as the area under the draw force curve, and you don’t need to be able to run the calculus to see that inches of draw on the long end add way more area than any of the ones in the middle just ‘cuz the line is higher... Good thing, too, because calculus and I never quite got along...

You’d have to design for every last bit of pre-load that you could get, starting at a really low brace height, I guess... Don’t see many bows designed for an old school Proper Fistmele, though. (Whatever became of him, anyway?)

But I guess now we’re moving past recommendations and getting into the Art & Science of Bowyery....

BTW, George - I always value your advice, but

That Robertson Purist is a sweetheart! I owned one a number of years ago and they are pure joy to shoot. For some reason I’ve always found Dick’s bows very easy to shoot. At 60” I bet that really spits an arrow. Shooting a Wolfer now and enjoying the heck out of it.

Give Kegan McCabe at Omega Archery a call. He makes a short bow “Native”. Very good looking bow. Almost pulled the trigger to get one. I shifted to a one of Gregg Coffey’s bows which I liked better.

Did you say you wanted a short longbow? I missed that. My fave is a 66" 60# Sentman Carbon Deluxe. Gary has no record so I don't know when it was built. Very conservative limbs. IMO extreme r/d in a longbow loses the biggest advantage of a longbow, which is stability.

Short Longbow??....

Is that anything,like a long short bow???

“Did you say you wanted a short longbow? ”

Actually, no. What I’m hoping for is a longbow, probably with a fair amount of R/D (or D/R, if you prefer), which performs up to its full potential at a shorter draw length.

Some bowyers, like Sid at Border, have told me that a particular bow will be at its best for a DL up to X inches at a length of Y; others make bows for shorter-draw archers and those tend to be shorter overall, just on the assumption that shorter draw = shorter person = desire for a shorter bow. I’m only 64” myself, but I’m open to a bow that’s a bit taller than I am, just so long as the bow is designed to work well at my draw. Andy Man made the observation that some bows just feel “flabby” at 26”-27”, and that’s what I’m hoping to avoid.

I am not near as analytical as you but I do know a bow designed for a 30" draw is not efficient at 26" to 27 " Just like compounds they perform best at near max. weight/draw. I have a good friend with a 27" draw and he loves his Thunder Child. He has other good bows and has built a couple too. As you know I have never been into short bows because of my draw length. There are a couple out there that are supposed to work well and designed for longer draw lengths but I won't buy another without shooting it first. I have had too many that don't work. The opposite of too long a bow too short starts stacking. That is stressing rather springing. Kind of like bending a 2 X 4 it doesn't have a lot of spring before breaking. You like to experiment. Build the grip up an inch even 2. Cut a radius to fit the grip in a block of wood the thickness of the riser round the back edges,pad it so it don't scratch the Viper. Use lots of tape to secure it. Walla, you have increased the draw. You will gain more with the increased draw than you will with a 5# heavier bow. If you are that impressed with it it is possible to make it permanent. It would just take a little bow building/repairing skills.>>>----> Ken

Surprised nobody has mentioned Jason Kendall's Kanati bows. I have a 56", 50#er that is my favorite bow. No finger pinch at my 28" draw, and has amazing zip. Cut to center, and very tolerant of spine (actually likes them a little stiffer than expected). Beautiful bows with fine finish worksmanship. I also have a 60", 54#er that is unreal, but more than I want to shoot for long periods. Check out his facebook page, he often puts new bows there for price of a decent used bow.

I was just about to recommend Jason and Kanati. Whoever says aggressive d/r is not stable has never shot one. Mine also is 56". 48# @ 28" and I draw 27". Will tune well with .600 or .500 carbon. Totally changed my opinion of "short longbows" - yes that is a thing. If you talk to him I'm sure he could design to maximize efficiency at your draw.

Of course, a draw force curve can be optimized to be more efficient at a targeted draw length. Long draw bows can tend be a bit mushy at shorter draws. It may depend on the design sometimes, but a bow properly set up for the individual, like a Schulz longbow will tend to start stacking past the targeted draw length. This means that the energy in the limb is being better used and is not getting eaten up by needing to carry along the extra weight of material not being fully utilized.

It doesn't matter, pick one and shoot it.

GF is looking for a magic performer, but silence is still deadly and accuracy trumps speed. My favorite bows may or may not be the fastest, but the realible accuracy with the fast pointing capabilities of my duo shooter non-center shot bows just click right for my shooting style, my fastest bows tend to get dusty.

Howard Hills favorite bows were not all that fast and no more center shot than my duo shooters, he may have been on to something. He was a better judge of accuracy because of his standards than I could ever be.

NOT actually looking for a miracle, fellas! Just doesn’t make sense to me to buy a bow that can’t show me what it’s got.

I’m sure I’d be extremely happy with a Savannah or another Viper in the right weight (and of the proper vintage). Or anything comparable (and comparably affordable). Larry seems to have a knack for building bows that are less dependent on draw length to generate their speed. So apparently there’s more to it than JUST the stored energy (which makes perfect sense if you’re any good at all with a flyrod).

Some people can jump around with bow designs and not have affect their hunting accuracy and reaction/coordination. I am not one of those, the more similar bows are to each other, the better off I am and the less amount of practice I need to do in any transition. It is bad enough that i may walk in a left hander, find a perfect place to set up for right hand and switch to right hand for the duration of that hunt, or the other way. During pheasant season, I most often walk in a right hander, i am a little bit more accurate on moving shots right handed, but I will switch to left hand if the situation call for it. It takes a very accurately built bow to be able to do that, perhaps that is part the trick in those two bows, they do what they are suppose to do. GF in your case you may lose some draw length with a steeper grip, I have a bit over a 70" wing span and I lowered my draw, should say, I tried to lower my to be 26plus a little both left hand and right hand. I think it would be good for you with your rather long draw at your height to stick to bows that have very similar grips and sight windows to what you currently find are working best for you. Howatt Hunters are one of those bows that I find very difficult to criticize, they work.

Perhaps a Martin Scorpian or Mamba with a nearly identical grip would be worth considering fro a heavier bow. I had a mamba for a while it shot very nice at my 27" recurve draw. It was was too good not to be in use, so I passed it along with a dozen arrows to match the new owner. He payed full price for the arrow materials and payed for a prime rib diner for me and my wife, good enough, plus he ran all of the way back to town to get my deer cart to hull out my wife's deer. What goes around comes around.

check out a stik made by rich emery....if you have facebook he has a ton of pics of his bows on his page called "stikbows"...ive owned 3 from him and they are great performers and a custom for a great price...you can get exotics and spend more or use his base wood/glass combo for a very inexpensive bow...ive got a 60in that I draw to 29.5 but I bet one of his 54 or 56in models would be outstanding at your draw...

I draw 27" and shoot a great northern fireball thats 59 @ 28" and use gold tip 500 with 160gr ribtek broadheads on 48gr insert adapters and love this setup and it preforms great.

OCR - thought I had mentioned that, but I guess that was in my ad...

I like 62”s, but could go a few either way. The Thunderbird was a revelation at 10”’-12” shorter than everything else, but... Yeah, probably 60”-66”, assuming the designed DL and I are a match...

Mike Treadway. DANNY

The answer to your question is Centaur

And a winning lottery ticket.

One of the guys I shoot with at the club has one and it’s a screamer. Just way outside of my price range. Unless you’ve got one that’s been kicking your butt and you just wanna be free of the SOB...

ROFL

They’re obviously a great bow. If I could take up building my own, there’s zero doubt that I’d be trying to come up with the best-shooting R/D bow that I could figure out how to build - target-shooting classes be damned. And I really doubt that I’m the only one with that kind of interest. Not convinced that I’m so smart that I could come up with a world-beater, either... There’s obviously got to be a limit to what can be done in terms of storing energy in a leaf spring, and limiting the mass has got to have a lot to do with it... the rest is in the timing, like the difference between a minor league pitcher and the same guy after he’s been coached into major-league form....

This occurred to me while I was out at the range earlier...

How long have the high-performance R/D bows been around? And what’s the difference in efficiency of a hard R/D design and a milder one?

And FWIW...Those leads on the Kanati, Stik and of course Mike’s Mountaineer are all excellent recommendations, given the budget constraints!

If you have already registered, please

sign in now

For new registrations

Click Here