Hadn’t thought about this before, but I noticed the other day that the Border Hawk longbow set a bunch of flight records... which they also talk about on their ILF LB page.

So I’m wondering....

Is the 1-piece version a faster bow, or is it more a matter of competition rules only allowing 1-piece rigs?

With the ability to add pre-load on the ILF, it seems likely that it should be faster, but maybe not?

Couldn’t the bowyer put the same max preload on a one pc bow?

MP

Good point! Makes sense that they could design that in....

But in pound-for-pound, GPP-to-GPP comparison, is there a reason that a bowyer would be able to get a clear performance edge out of one vs. the other?

Going to take another shot at getting some feedback on this one....

Not looking to start any hoo-hah - just wondering if there’s any hard & fast reason why a 1-piece would be faster than an ILF can be made to be, or if flight-shooting rules just require a 1-piece...

But if that were to be the case, why isn’t there a separate class for erector-set bows?? (LOL - but you never know what kind of glib poke in the eye will turn a sleeper thread into a 500-poster!)

well here are some rules.

https://usflightarchery.com/pdf/01-USAA-2017-General-Flight-Rules.pdf

Border had a "sale" on their bows a few years ago. Cameron had a bunch of them. Too bad he does not post much here any more or he could offer first hand experience.

DDave

The only thing tangible I can add to this post is to say I owned a 64# Border Hawk longbow and it was one fast sum-beach. Probably as fast or faster than any "traditional" bow I've owned.

You’re killing me with that past tense! First Damascus Dave says he sold off his Venom and now this!

Thanks, Frank! Time to do some reading....

I realize this is not what you're asking but I've always looked at ILF bow's ability to shoot light arrows is where the speed comes in.

I don't shoot a chronograph much anymore but I never really noticed any real speed advantage shooting an ILF bow over any other quality bow with GPP being equal. I have never shot a Border although I'd like to. :)

From my understanding if you could basically build three sets of bow limbs identical except for how the limbs are joined to the riser, the one piece would be faster than the bolt down and the bolt down would be faster than the ILF. ILF is a convenient way to attach limbs to a riser and it's main advantages are interchangeableness and tuning. It's less efficient than bolt down and bolt down is less efficient than a one piece!

But in reality, most here, including me, likely couldn't visually see the difference when shooting with identical weights. The best reason to buy a bow is how it fits you. The second reason is your ability to be accurate with it. The third, and maybe not even third, is how fast it shoots.

Speed tests are done using the same grains per pound at a certain draw length, and that is the only fair comparison Of course lighter arrows will be faster, and heavier will be slower, but I've always found the medium off high and low to be the best for me. The best bow you will ever own will hit where you want it to hit, and be like an extension of your arm. It may be a very fast bow, but it may not.

The use of the cronograph has ruined more archers than any case of the yips ever has.

I'm no expert in bow building, but I have shot a lot of different style bows, and shot them a lot.

I don't see (have never experienced) a one piece bow shooting any different than a takedown bow (in performance) simply due to that one difference. It's always been other things in their construction making the difference.

All else being equal, whether the limbs are bolted on, or glued on makes no difference.

Two bows (one takedown & one a one piece), if having the same geometry of riser & limbs, same amount of working limb, same length, and same material of make up, should have relatively the same preload, so if tuned the same will should perform relatively the same.

ILF is simply a limb attachment system, and does not make the bow perform any better (or worse), than any other takedown or one piece.

Rick

I'll add this:

I prefer a takedown bow due to their convenience of storage, and transport, but if I thought for one second I was taking a performance hit due to my preference, I would be seriously considering making a change.

The only thing an ILF offers over the conveniences mentioned, is it's range of tuning options, that you can do without getting out the rasp, file, and sandpaper to accomplish. 8^)

Rick

Chris, in my mind, the only way for that to happen is if something is changing in other areas due to the different types of attachments.

Probably something as simple as a slight difference in limb take off angle, which has a huge impact on preload even in the slightest amounts.

Rick

I've always been a firm believer in the fact that performance is a product of unbraced, and braced sideview profile. It really doesn't matter what material the limbs are made of, of or how the attach to the handle/riser.

" The use of the cronograph has ruined more archers than any case of the yips ever has. "

I've shot over a chrony once or twice, then forgot what it said ;-)

I know my bow is fairly fast, from having shot my share of slow ones. How fast is not as important as, 'do I feel confident about hitting consistently?' And that is at least as much a function of quality practice as bow, arrow, speed or any other factor.

Well, Frank, Border agrees with you ;)

They also point out that their ILF LB risers allow the limbs to attach at a different angle which is good for pre-load and allows a properly low brace height for a longbow... and it stands to reason that a bow with a low BH and high ore-load would still be accelerating the arrow in that last 1”-1 1/2”, which could be a real difference - especially for someone with a shorter draw length to work with....

I haven’t read up on too many bowyers, but it does seem to me that those guys are doing something pretty different... certainly the only place I’ve read anything about a 62” LB (with quite a bit of R/D) being suitable for UP TO a 27” draw...

I know Border has said in the past that the ILF version of their limbs do not perform as well as the bolt down. Because they can't control what riser it is going on so they have to tone it down a bit to allow for different setups that may create excessive stress. Don't know about one piece but can assume the same thing is happening.

Did some test the other day a 1 pcs 56" 44# @ 26 and a ILF take down 56" 44# @ 26"...... The ILF take down was 10 fps. I feel before the test the 1 pcs was faster??? surprise. I did this test for myself and both at the same session. Both were my bows. different bows and manufacturers would probably have a different results. It is all in the design of the limbs 1pcs,2pcs,3pcs, makes no difference. Its all in the design.

I have some area friends that string crab with ifs, they believe that method with a one pice bow would come with less performance because of the tuning issue. A couple of them do like to mess with that lower limb setting a lot.

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