Okay, I’ll admit, I’ve suffered from this damnable stuff for years. I’ve tried everything I’ve seen and read on the topic and still, no cure. I hunted and shot with a clicker for years, then, started anticipating it and blew up. I shot left- handed for years and did okay, but have never been able to shoot as well as I do, right-handed.

After much trial and error, I’ve come up with a regimen that DID IT for me as well as a friend, who also suffered from this demon. We finally have SUCCESS.

Now… I’m not a good shot, not a psychologist, not an archery coach or anything of the sort. I’m just a desperate archer who’s tried everything. Nothing worked—until now.

I honestly “think” if you're willing to put in the work and spend 63 days following the regimen I’ve put together, you'll have success too. If you're as frustrated and as desperate as I was, in the words of President Trump, “What in the hell do you have to lose?"

So far, two guys have followed it and both have been successful. I don't want to post it all over the place—just yet. (Not real fond of making a fool or ass of myself.) I'd like to get some feedback from a few guys to see how it works for others. If it works for the majority, then, we’ll just pass it along to everyone. If not, we’ll just say... well... just another bunch of crap. :^)

So… I need some guinea pigs. I’d like 10 or 12 volunteers who are willing to follow a strict regimen for 63 days; who are willing to put in the time and effort and not cheat or short-circuit the drills.

If you’re interested, just PM me your email address and I’ll forward you the regimen and a spreadsheet to keep track of your progress on. I’d appreciate communication along the way with updates of your progress too.

One in.... 11 to go. :^)

Jim is a great one, in every sense of the word! You should take him up on such a good offer.

Elderly,

I know you were kidding, but No! If this helps a few guys, in two months I'll post it all for everyone to see. If not, we'll chaulk it up as another... well... Alford. :^)

My friend and I can now shoot in control of our shots. We haven't been able to do that for 35 years. So...........

Two in... 10 to go.

Three in... 9 to go.

Four in... 8 to go.

It will not let me send you a PM Jim. But count me in. See if you can send me a Pm and I will give you the info.

Five in... 7 to go.

63 days?....uh,no. I switched to left-handed and that was the end of it..7 yrs. Ago!

I switched to LH 23 years ago. But RH shooting stayed in the back of my mind- unfinished business as it were, always bothering me for years.

One teacher I studied with insisted on ambidexterity in his particular style, my chiropractor insisted I exercise both sides for spinal health, so very slowly by hit & miss (MISS!) attempts made partial gains and got back about 30% control RH.

There is still a lot of woodshedding to be done. Jim's method is promising, I did some similar things myself over the years. I coach a lot, so it's important to be able to hold things together in front of my students. Fortunately, LH shooting is perfect for teaching; majority of archers are RH so I am face-to-face with them for showing them stuff, and then watching them. "mirroring" is a term I learned for this face-to-face kind of demonstrating.

Yep, I switched to lefty too, about 10 years ago. No more panic, but I'm a righty... so.... I never gave up hope. Wasn't the end of it for me.

Good for you. I'm glad "you're" satisfied.

It won't let me send you a pm Jim but I would like to try it. Thanks. Brad Maybe you can send me a p.m.?

hunterbob,

I sent a PM. Let me know if it goes thru.

Six in... 6 to go.

any way to know what I'm getting myself in to first?

Yeah Jim, if it takes 63 days and involves no shooting,or blank or blind bale only,by then the hunting seasons will be over. Could be a very clever way of eliminating all the competition for that big buck. 8^) >>>>-----> Ken

Beendare,

About 20 to 30 minutes a day for 63 days of STRICT discipline.

bowcrazy,

I'll send you a PM. We'll see if that works.

Seven in... 5 to go.

That's funny, Ken. I'm thinking the kind of guys that are desperate enough to try this have lost all confidence to hunt anyway.

You're on the right track.... a lot of blank bailing for sure-- but not all.

Amen, I went through Jims program several years ago and it works!

Jim thanks for the email but I’m thinking I should wait till after hunting season or I guess I could use the wheel bow and that wouldn’t effect your program

Jamie,

I honestly don't think it would affect you at all if you use the compound.

Ok thanks that’s what I’m thinking also I’ll get started on this tomorrow

Sam,

Unless someone just sent it to you, you've not gone thru these drills. I've never seen this program anywhere. It only exists in my mind--and my success with it. :^)

... and, of course in the success of my friend too.

Jim, I have the same problem as hunterbob. Please try to PM me and then maybe we can contact by email.

I would love to give it a go Jim. I just started bowhunting today though and can't imagine not trying to fill my tags till about December.

I'm doing real well with the clicker right now but would really like to go back to without it.

Is it possible to hunt and do this or do I need to wait?

Sounds good Jim. I did the Jenkins bridging and still do it to keep my form and control.

I have control now but I say one can always improve.

I think that's the key, Sam--staying with it all the time to keep the control and form in check.

Jim, a shop related accident messed up my left elbow. I shot through it a few years but the pain started to get so bad it actually CAUSED the worst case of TP known to man! I HAD to switch sides! I can't even pull 25# right handed!

Glynn,

I'm thinking if you're using a clicker, it shouldn't affect this program at all. We can give it a go and see how it works for you. PM me your email address.

Sorry to hear that, SB. My TP wasn't physical--all mental.

Nine in... 3 to go.

I’m in. Unable to pm you for some reason. Shoot me a pm and I’ll text you. Id be a great candidate....

Jim I get a server error when I click on your name. I'll try PMing you over on TT.

Jim I would like to be in but I get a server error. When I try to send a pm

krakka17 & Glynn,

I just sent you guys PM's. You can send your email by return path.

Ten in... 2 to go.

Big-D,

Just sent you a PM.

Eleven in... 1 to go.

Okay... we're all done and all thru.

Now... I'm counting on you guys to follow the drills to the letter and not cheat. :^)

I know things will come up and the holidays so none of you will probably get done in 63 consecutive days. So, I expect we'll be back about the the first of the year with reports from everyone.

Wish them luck.

:^)

I hope people join in. I've had it for fifty years.

one more maybe?? please...

I just wanted to make one more post to thank all you guys for your willingness to give this a go. Hopefully, we'll find out that my buddy and I aren't flukes. :^) If you guys have good results, I'm hoping we can offer help to literally thousands of folks who are afflicted with this devil.

Thanks again, and good luck to all of you.

Jim I've had TP for years and shoot with a clicker. I would like to be included in your program but am unable to send you a PM. One more in the try out wouldn't hurt anything. If your program does not work for most of these guys after the 63 days, are you going to offer it to people that want to try it anyway?

Arrowflinger,

My fear is folks may not follow the drills TO THE LETTER. So... I'd like to see how many really stick with it compared to those that don't.

Like I said, this is for the most desperate among us. :^) I've followed the Rod Jenkins method, tried all of Kidwell's suggestions and did the psycho trigger taught by Joel Turner. I thank God for these good men and I know their methods have cured many--but not me. While I made improvements there was still no CURE for this demon--for me.

It's really very simple. It's all about ingraing, confidence and MAINTAINING; the key may well be the maintain part.

Let's see how it goes with these fella's and we'll go from there.

It's going to be hard not shooting at all for awhile but I am 100 percent all in . I hope to be one of your success stories at the end of the 63 days.

Sounds like something I had to do when I shot compound, shoot no shot, but did it for two weeks. It still fares up for me, but knowing I can stop it and drawing without releasing a few times I'm OK.

Spot-on, Chris. Similar to Len Cardinale's program, but longer and more rigid--I think--with maintenance drills at the end.

Jim, Are you going to do an open piece here? Or is that part of the "Not real fond of making a fool or ass of myself." I'll do it for you, because I'm use to making a fool or ass out of myself, in fact, I do it weekly!!!

I can't PM you either, but very interested for coaching purposes. In fact, on the other current TP thread I made that request.

Bowmania

Todd,

Hopefully, the results will speak for themselves thru the volunteers. We'll just have to see how it goes.

Shawn,

Most times I can figure out what you're getting at... sometimes I don't. This is one of those "don't" times. This thread has nothing at all to do with snap-shooters.

after day one im finding I have it in myself to draw and hold without shooting...I bet I did 30-40 draw and hold with no shot today and Im already feeling much better...thanks Jim this is helping me already...

That's good news, Darron. Part of this stuff (and deeper) is tonight, you'll reflect and meditate on what you just accomplished. The next time you'll be more confident going in and hopefully a little more confident cominig out. :^)

You simply HAVE to follow the drills to the LETTER.

Remember, it's not just draw and hold. It's draw anchor, set you back muscles keeping tension, and "immerse" in aiming, then let down.

Nice of you to be willing to help people Jim.

Jim- If possible please forward the info to: [email protected]

Thanks in advance.

Kevin in Michigan

If you have it I say we have to learn to live with it. I don't believe it can ever be overcome and cured completely.

Glenn, you may be right that can never be cured, but you're definitely wrong that it can't be overcome.

:^)

For all you fella's who have the drills and are going to start. I have no idea how badly you suffer from this devil and we're all certainly different so.........

You absolutely MUST have a shot sequence and use good consistent back tension during these drills. Go over each part of shot sequence every time and when you come to full draw, you must consentrate on aiming. When I use the word immerse, it means total and complete thought towards aiming. In the end, you’ll be able to hold on the target while aiming without that NEED to open your fingers and release the string.

You may not be able to advance, or extend your distance as quickly, or feel as comfortable as we'd like. So.... if at any time your not comfortable, slow up and go back to the previous step. We’re in no hurry here. Stay with it—you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. NEVER stress yourself; don’t let any anxiety come it. Stay where you are, or go back a step or two. Do NOT try to advance until you KNOW you’re ready to.

Hey jim,could you send me the info?

I don't mind "burning a hole" in the target as long as we call it immersion. lol

Thanks Jim

LOL

.... and I don't care if you immerse in aiming and call it burning a hole--just make sure you do it.

lol lol

Well I've been hunting and didnt see this till just now.....way to go Jim!!! I am anxious to hear the results that is awesome of you to do this. I asked Lenny one time how many people followed thru COMPLETELY on his program....he held his index finger and thumb about a 1/2" apart and said "this many" LOL

Very generous offer. I wish you all the best in success!

It's only been a week since the first guinea pigs... or, I mean volunteers, started their drills. I'm getting some very good feedback how their confidence level and control is increasing daily.

Very encouraging--so far.

Thanks again fella's.

Jim

Thanks a lot for doing this. Looking forward to the results once the trial period is over.

Jim, I want in but can't seem to get through to you through PM. If you could contact me (PM) I would love to get in also.

For those of you who are following or participating in Jim's regime, Jim has been kind enough to send me a copy of the regime for review.

I'm choosing my words very carefully because I don't wish to corrupt or add a bias to those participating, but could I reinforce Jims comments that, to obtain the absolute best results, those participating follow the the regime to the letter.

This is going to be very interesting.

Pm sent !!!

Another great by-product of this exercise is the blank bale opportunity. You can experiment with string finger tension, anchor points, elbow height, scapula engagement, bow hand placement...everything.

I have been slacking on the bale, this is going to help me with my shot, ie, getting to know it better.

I can't do this every day either, so a few months worth.

I think it is great! I had TP but got rid of the control it had on me and now shoot with control due to learning a sequence and keeping it in check by bridging and draw and let downs.

It is not a bad thing to admit that you have it,,it is worse to let it go and not get your control back.

I Sam, known by many and feared by few and I have TP.

OK, now let's go to work and get our shot back!

Up for Jim's thread.

I couldn't get through to Jim by PM either.

Jim, Why the insult? I’ve helped people from this site and internationally as well...anyone who has met me knows l’m sincere, helpful, and that my methods are very real and do work. I wish you the best with your TP solution.

David A.,

No insult indended. I simply made a quip in reply to Elderly OCR's post. I apologize for offending you.

Ok...thx and l hope we can all defeat TP and related such as buck fever for the hunters here...pressure hunting situations may be the severest “final exam”...

I never read anything about “Target panic” as I’m afraid that I’ll catch that dreaded disease!

Liquid Tension, if it works on a massive enraged bugling bull elk at 15 yds. it’s pretty much bullet proof...Pressure like no other in my opinion...

I don’t wanna derail the man’s thread. I hope it works. For the guys who aren’t in/didn’t get in target panic is a brain problem imo. We need to reprogram the brain. If I had someone w this issue I’d tell them to stop shooting. Begin string bow work. No bow shooting. The string bow work would basically be working on perfect form and retraining the brain/body. After much repetition and doing this everyday I’d ease them into shooting. First thing is just drawing (w arrow of course) and not shooting. Than very close blank bale. The idea here is only form and they’d still be working a string bow. They’d eventually shoot targets very close, still working form on a string bow. The idea here is not to test tolerance it’s to rebuild form and a non flinching way of release. The more patience and time the better and this must be done under no pressure. . I’d have em work string bows before breakfast, before bed, after work or school, visualization would come into play as well. There’s no magic fix. If anyone had taken time and done this and it hasn’t worked let me know cause everyone I use it on works. If any doubts return the string bow, an reinforce good habits. Fellows I’m sure would love to “pop a pill” and have it go away. It’s not. It takes retraining through repetition. With a string bow you can draw, anchor, release and follow through. The very close range blank bale starts to bridge the anxiety some feel shooting w actual shooting. Tp does not need to be enhanced by practicing a bad habit. Keep doing the same things and get the same results so stop and retrain. Hope the op has a great idea and stopping shooting isn’t great right now but neither would working on tp issues during bow season. It shoulda been dealt with already. We need to start somewhere. I’ll be honest I know of no way to “half do this”. The way I show this is a matter of at least a month w only string bow. 100 times a day. At least a month, preferably more. The string bow form work needs a commitment and should not be stopped at the blank baling part. Actually should be done fairly regular for months. At best bet you’re looking around the same timeframe as the op’s idea.

I had to start late as we got married this weekend. I think if I’d have mentioned the word archery in the last week I’d have gotten the boot before the vows. ?? thanks again for th opportunity I’ll stay posted.

I think most people at this stage know it's a mental affliction. That was figured out forty years ago for the most part. It's awful to someone who has it, and the fix may be a variable and not necessarily one size fits all. I don't like to see anyone go through it, but anyone who says they can just fix it has to show how to do it. Jim is trying to do that so I won't interject anything on my own here.

I had a short bout with the yips about thirty years ago, and I had all the experts tell me how to fix it. Yep...just like now. I lucked into what worked for me....read that "for me". My brother-in-law was shooting his compound at the club and ask me to shoot a few shots. I pulled it back and with the let-off I settled into anchor. I shot about a dozen arrows under control. The next day I shot my recurve just fine and had no more issues. Read again...that is "for me"...and likely a hundred other guys wouldn't realize the same outcome.

I sure hope Jim's method works. It's a horrible malady for anyone to put up with and it is all mental.

It is all mental coupled with the way the pressure has affected the physical reactions to it.

Buck fever is a little different but confidence in your shooting helps.

Learning to stay calm comes with experience in the field.

Some have the "Nerves" but actually, I hope I never totally get over them.

Deep breathing and waiting on the proper shot is key.

I want to get excited if I don't, what fun is it?

George I hope you weren’t thinking I was dismissing what the op has in mind. I’m actually not. I’m just giving guys that seemed to want to try something an idea that works. Here’s something to think about? Do you think a reaction can be trained? I’m referring to a brain response? Look at the secret serivice, totally even unnatural response because of brain training or reprogramming a brain. Now I’m not saying someone has to be secret service material to succeed I’m just giving one very easy to understand examples how the brain is more powerful than the body. How many guys truly powerlift? Is training only physical or do you need to set your brain that this weight is going up? How many guys w strong brains get real hurt cause they push harder than they should? The brain is powerful. Hand to eye coordination can be practiced. Look at boxers or mma guys. All trained, practiced, perfected responses to what happens. In shooting once you’re form is right, the sight picture is lined up is there not a response? Is it not triggered by the brain even if subconsciously ?? The brain needs to be retrained to respond properly. It can be done. Now here’s the thing tp has been going on and talk about it is always popping up. No one refers to brain/body response and eliminating it. Like I said let guys keep trying the same exact obviously non working things and we’ll continue to talk about it. Retraining the brain is the key. A string bow if done w commitment will help because it is a retraining of only the response from the brain. There’s no bow, no target and no anxiety. Yes there could be some deviation but the brain response issue must be resolved and not just have an archer run around trying all kinds stuff until a magic formula suddenly appears. No magic, we’ve trained the flinch/doubt in. Gotta untrain it. Use the brain

Bowguy,

I don't think I could have said it better myself. I tried, but I don't think I did it any better.

:^)

Yessir! Very good layperson explanation!

Bowguy .. in layman's terms you've got it pretty much spot on

Besides the importance of the brain, some techniques lend themselves to more TP tendency than others. In the opinion of many (and I agree) the Asbell method and related snap shooting methods are examples. And in the opinion of many (and I agree) the Olympic method (s) are much more resistant.

One thing I have seen with TP and people that can't get over it is almost everyone cannot stay disciplined enough to run a program of any sort. They give up because of lack of instant gratification. Most of the time TP had been bred and fostered for months upon months and won't be fixed in a week or two. It takes a little bit of time and lots of discipline.

Can't wait to see the results Jim. I will be one of your first patients. I mean customers. No wait, patients because it is a sickness. :)

I'm eager to hear some results too. So far... some very good progress is being reported--anxiety going down and confidence going up.

Like Demmer (and others) said, the problem will be keeping enough discipline to stay with the regimen--TO THE LETTER. :^)

I think some aspects of TP can be fixed in less than a week. In less than a day. In less than an hour. Now performance anxiety, that is another matter as in buck fever or shooting in front of people, tournament pressure, etc. but just being able to complete a full draw and get to a solid anchor is the first and arguably the most important step and that can be done more readily with certain methods than others.

The explanation is because some of my release methods esp. using my nontechnical releases are very awkward to snap shoot. You're going to get to anchor, that's almost guaranteed. Now you might have TP in aiming or rushing your shot once at anchor...it depends on how we define TP, but there is a lot of protection in these releases.

This aspect frankly has very little to do with the brain and thinking...as partial proof of what I'm saying, look at compound shooters. Even those with so called TP almost always have it in aiming and rushing their shot or punching the release, not in the draw/anchor aspects like traditional archers/bowhunters. True? Of course, there are some exceptions I'm sure just as in almost anything.

I don't blame the human condition, I blame methods...the same applies to accuracy issues. Almost all trad. archers and bowhunters are trying to do something that is not accuracy friendly in the way they shoot. Of course, many people like trad. bows to be difficult, demanding of talent and dedication...they are very happy with the status quo.And if you have TP, that's unfortunate but they will advise you all types of cures when some of the problems are simply because the methods are not user friendly from the get go....like walking a narrow plank suspended 20 stories up. Well, wouldn't it be a lot easier if there was a hand rail, for example?

It all depends on the archery game you want to play. Some techniques lend themselves better for certain games and others are better for other games. Using releases other than fingers/thumb release is not the answer....

"" ...I think some aspects of TP can be fixed in less than a week" ....

That's a pretty strong statement David, do you have any objective evidence to validate that statement?

Been following this thread and am sure this process will work. I see mention of people who have done this type of process and then go back and start over if issues start to come back.

I wonder if using this process coupled with a non-anticipatory trigger like a clicker would keep it from coming back.

Or is it something that some people,for whatever reason, are just prone to having TP no matter what their sequence is and need to reprogram their brain every now and then.

"Using releases other than fingers/thumb release is not the answer...." Well, all releases use fingers and or thumb as they are attached to the release. Of course, fingers or thumb may not be the triggering component, but that would apply to glove and tab as well.

"a new mechanical release or any new archery gadget is generally a cure for 1 to 3 days."

My releases are nonmechanical and are not gadgets. Nevertheless, even with a mechanical release it pretty much guarantees you will get back to anchor. True?

Phil, the part of TP where you can't get back to anchor can be fixed in a lot less than one week. As in like 5 seconds. Yes, five seconds or less, the very first time you use my releases. I'm using plural because I invented a half dozen. The only way you can't get back to anchor or close to final anchor would be to intentionally sabotage your draw just to prove me wrong.

Compare to glove or tab where many people CANNOT even get to anchor they have TP so bad. With glove or tab many are releasing the shot way before anchor. So a release can help, but again it may not be the complete solution or even a preferred solution by many. The problem with releases heretofore is that must suk for trad bows, anyway. The inventors gave up too soon...

*most*

Gimmicks never fix TP, not releases, not clickers. The only thing that gets you back on track is a disciplined shot sequence and ingraining proper shot execution close up, not trying to hit anything. Saying you can fix it in "5 secs" is false!

Work is all that will keep TP at bay and then training to keep you in good control.

Shot triggers and mind triggers and all the gimmicks are at most, a day or two till your mind figures out it is a bandaid.

I am not selling anything or have anything to gain, only the truth.

Both of you need to read my statements more closely. I said in so many words a release can almost instantly fix that part of TP where the archer can't even get back to anchor. I did not say a release could by itself fix other aspects of TP. However getting back to anchor is a big step in the right direction for many sufferers of TP.

In fact, one can go to almost any trad. tournament and witness a high percentage of trad archers short drawing and do not get to anchor.

TP is a big subject and there is not just one type of TP, hence not just one solution for all.

Also, there are other reasons to use a release that are not related to TP. But that doesn't mean I'm against tab/glove. In fact my original "release methods" only used tab/glove.

Anyway, a release can help with the short drawing/snap shooting aspects of TP. But then so can other things, such as form work.

Thank you for the reply David, but with all due respect you havn't answered my question ....

... do you have any objective evidence to validate the statement that some aspects of TP can be fixed in less than a week.

Phil, just my students and the fact in the compound world almost everyone using a release does get back to anchor vs. all the short drawing we see with trad. archers. Again, this doesn't mean the have totally solved their TP, but they will have solved a major aspect of it and that is helpful.

Liquid Tension, there are short cuts in this world. Always have been. One, is knowledge. Another is valid technique.

With respect to archery, I would say human friendly technique. For example, one short cut to accuracy problems is to use a sight. A harder more labor intensive method is to shoot instinctively only. The latter is not human friendly because of the difficult to repeat alignment tolerances as well as "eye-hand coordination".

Of course, many won't want to use a sight on a trad bow. So then we can use the arrow tip, etc. Just examples...

Let me use the analogy of a car engine that won't run properly. Let's say the timing is off, the starter is broken, and the coil needs to be replaced. We fix the one of these, will the car now run properly? No. Was fixing one of the problems helpful? Yes, in the sense we are partly done.

In the case of a car engine, all the issues need to be fixed if we expect it to work properly. Similarly for TP when there are multiple aspects involved. However, in some cases a car engine only has one issue and in some cases that is also true for TP.

Engines and TP are both big subjects and one fix will not necessarily be a complete remedy.

We’ve all got and heard notions about the curing this darn stuff. I believe LT is on the right path with bale and bridge. If folks are willing to do the work, they’ll come out fine.

I am, however, convinced that most target panic suffers MUST learn to hold on target without the anxiety and without the fingers automatically opening up. My drills are designed to retrain the brain to do just that--FIRST. I’m of the opinion we sufferers have to learn to be "comfortable” at full draw before we even advance to shooting any arrows. That’s why my system is heavy on wall drills (anchoring, expanding, keeping tension in the back all the while aiming, then letting down) then, it proceeds into the bale shooting and bridging slowly.

So far, everyone that has reported back can do just that. They ALL can draw, anchor and aim in comfort without any yips biting at their heels. This is in just two weeks. So far…. so good. Confidence, seeing improvement and learning that the system WILL work will keep hope alive and give them the knowledge to keep this damnable stuff at bay along the way.

TP discussions ALWAYS drift and rant. They're NEVER written concisely. THEY"RE TALKING TO THEMSELVES, mostly ABOUT themselves.

IF THEY WANTED TO BE HELPFUL they'd link to favorite YouTubes.

Rant? You must'a posted in the wrong thread. I haven't seen any rants. Actually, it's been one of the more civil discussions I've seen here for a long time.

As for the YouTube video's, I'm not aware of any that even remotely addresses what's being discussed here.

Another short cut is proper equipment. An example would be bow poundage. Being overbowed can lead to TP. Even having discipline is a short cut. Finding good teachers or TP cures is a short cut vs. just suffering and going it alone.

Jim, there are shortcuts to almost everything in life and the common denominator is often valid knowledge. If your method consists of valid knowledge, then it also is a short cut!

I think this is all very positive.

Too much chatter.

Several videos address this.

Demmer has enough accomplishment and self discipline to write meaningfully and concisely.

Hey John, If you do not like reading this TP thread it is about Jim helping others on a path to get them back on track. We all need to step back and let Jim's thread do what he intended.

I for one will not post anymore and hope people are helped.

I have got side tracked with deer season. Have done a couple days of drills with the bow I shoot. I need to pick up a light weight bow to do the drills correct.

Let's ask this creative question. Imagine your bow while being super fast had a draw weight of only one ounce. Let's also imagine the bow had super stabilizers so you could hold it dead steady with no effort. Would TP still be an issue for anyone?

Yes. David I think you are missing the point. If you don’t prioritize you will get nuts/TP from shooting an invidible bow.

I'm not sure, a bow you can hold dead steady for as long as you want with no strain what so ever...?

Basically can you push a button w/o TP under pressure? Just creatively thinking about the various parameters...

All of my shooting flaws disappeared when I took a break for several months, eh.

DDave

Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objective, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say.?..

Guys ... can we all just take a breath for a second and give a little time and space to those guys participating in the trial.

I'm sure you'll all agree, that the last thing we want to do right now, is put doubt or confirmation bias in the minds of those who are progressing through Jim's program.

We all have our opinions as to what TP is and how to fix it, but lets not muddy the waters.

Much difference from Len Cardinale's program?

Gun hunters and crossbow hunters have target panic too, has to be between the ears, from either anxiousness or excitement. " Buck fever" has been around forever.

Taking human lives, having your life at risk is a lot different than tournament archery...or even deer hunting.

I believe part of the problem with many TP sufferers is that there are too many things involved in their shot sequence. Alternatively, many don't even have a shot sequence or a poorly ingrained one. Under pressure the system doesn't perform or performs out of synch.

In tournament style sequences, you can shoot a lot of arrows and have time to moderate the pressure in many tournaments. In bow hunting scenarios, you may only get one shot in a season and it may in a very time limited situation...Therefore, for hunting I do not recommend a ten step or even a five step type of sequence.

Couple more days and the first guys will begin to shoot their first arrows. I'm anxiously awaiting some reports over the weekend--with my fingers crossed.

:^)

I'm anxiously following this thread. I need to build a new shot sequence asap. TP has ruled my shooting long enough. Jim I hope your system works would love to try your method.

Well... I just got my first report following the first phase of the drills. Day 22 is when the first arrows are shot. Here's the report.

["Done my drills shot felt good was pulling when the shot broke good follow through."]

Great news--so far.

Jim, good for you and very generous. Hope it works out for everyone.

"Jamie,

I honestly don't think it would affect you at all if you use the compound."

Compounds don't change anything other than you can have less physical strain, but most people shoot more bow than they can handle, easier bow just means the shoot a higher marked poundage. Of course there are a lot of older archers, or otherwise challenged, who are up against a wall like 40 pounds they can't legally drop below.

Releases can solve target panic but only if your only problem is a conscious triggering thought, and you use a release to fire with back tension.

It is a medically known fact that not all yipps are psych, in fact psych is mostly not the problem either. Aging can lead to yipps, or a motor control loss that looks like them. Yipps/TP are not a psych problem in that there is something abnormal about the owner's brain. There could be, and it could cause them, but the normal case is a person who is entirely normal mentally. The normal case of TP is just a process problem. The common way of teaching archery almost guaranteed people would get TP as it emphasized a quick result with no serious attempt to master the process. This helped pro shops sell bows, but over the longer time leads to people getting TP. The normal sales process in mainstream archery is you go to a pro shop, they put something in your hands and get you on target, that afternoon. That was good for sales and good for becoming a 2 season hunter, it was bad for learning to shoot correctly.

"Releases can solve target panic but only if your only problem is a conscious triggering thought, and you use a release to fire with back tension."

Short drawing and releasing waay before anchor is uncommon with rleases. Not so with glove or tab...additionally, there are many ways to "release a release" other than back tension...

I just want to say that I spent a most valuable couple of hours with Jim Casto, Jr. yesterday. I have known Jim for many years and made some great hunting trips with him. Jim's heart is truly in archery and he really cares about others who struggle with a problem he has had lots of experience with. He is always ready to help. Thanks, buddy. :o)

There are of course things that an individual can do to control TP. For myself, the goal was to get it to a point where it was not a constant issue. For myself, the phycological burden was lifted when I learned to shoot without forcing everything and not beating myself up over a miss. A trick that old classical musicians use, I am one of them, use when they make a mistake is to mentally say "How untypical of me, accidents will happen." Then they precede to go through that same phrase until all of the dysfunctional tension is gone and the correct notes come out as a matter of natural incident.

Good to hear David, Jim is certainly one of the good guys!!! Keeping an eye on this thread.....

Don't come any better than Jim. And his son as well. Both are great archers and hunters and eat and sleep this stuff.

It's awful to old AND ignorant. But I don't even know what target panic is. Would some explain it? Heck, I might have it and don't know it. I do know I miss a lot.

It's awful to old AND ignorant. But I don't even know what target panic is. Would some explain it? Heck, I might have it and don't know it. I do know I miss a lot.

Basically it is an inability to control the shot sequence. It affects different people in different ways. Some can't get to full draw before having the overwhelming urge to release the string. It can also cause one to freeze at full draw and not be able to release, not be able to get on target without releasing too soon. I'm glad you don't know what it is. It isn't just missing, it is being unable to control your shot and release when you want to.

Jim ...

Without compromising or introducing confirmation bias to those archers participating in your TP program, ...

... are you in a position to give any indication a to how the group are progressing?

It's perfectly OK and I fully understand if the answer is NO COMMENT

The other day, all of a sudden my wife could not touch anchor, engage her major muscle group. Like she ran out of strength. Even a light weight bow did not work. Then came up with a game. "How deep can you drive a blunt into the dirt bank? Anyone that comes by will wonder what made those holes." She powered up hit the dirt bank hard and claimed that her arrows went was far as mine. Her inability to use her larger muscle group was gone, she settled hard on her anchor and her follow through was solid. After about 30 practice shots, she looked even stronger and more accurate. Tp in its many forms can sometimes just be a passing fickle notion and a little change of the mental channel can fix it.

Phil,

Unfortunately, I've only heard from two of the volunteers in the past week. So... far they're having great progress; confidence and control growing.

I hope I'm wrong, but it appears most are either unwilling or unable to follow the drills, to-the-letter. In any event, they're not letting me know how it's going. I'm convinced these drills will keep the demon at bay, but like Chris and Len Cardinale said, few will pay the price.

My shooting pard, who is a TP survivor, told me many times that when folks would say they sure wished they knew what they could do about their affliction, that he would offer a book or tape by Joel to get them started.

They just didn't bring it up with him after that much.

Jim I was wondering how guys were doing. You’re right most guys won’t pay the price, they want an instant fix. If we could make a pill to cure this we’d be rich. To deviate some I think part if not most could be avoided w a good coach watching people learn so these bad habits aren’t practiced in. Don’t recall one person we’ve taught having this affliction and many have been at it for years. Some only get coached in summer but shoot all year long so there is potential for issues.

Good morning to Jim and all. I am one of the testers. I have not started my program here in Michigan . Still hunting. Sent Jim a e-mail and got his ok to start my program December 1st. So I can dedicate 100 % of my effort on the program. So I will post my progress as I go , do you guys want weekly or bi weekly up dates . I’ll be more than happy to share my progress good or bad. Thanks so much for Jim’s program and offer. Happy hunting from my blind to yours. Have a blessed day.

I had a slight injury not able to pull my bow back yet. But I am going to do the drills . Probrobly will not be able to start for a couple more weeks. I started and got like 3 days in . And I was doing it with my 48 pound bow. I do need to find something in the 30# range.but I was thinking if I did it with what I shoot it would be better.

hunterbob, and others. I am doing the drills with my #44 Field bow and it started out very tough. I used the theory that since I shot a lot of arrows through that bow on Field rounds that it would work.

Running these drills the way I do seems similar to my regular shot, as far as how long I hold back and immerse in aiming. Fact is I had to go to every other day and longer a few times to be as strong in the sequence as I think I needed to be.

After a couple of weeks I am much stronger but there are days when it is still too much to go through the drills non-stop. If you can spread them out through the day it might work better.

If you are wanting to progress through the drills daily I would highly recommend a lighter bow. I don't care about the deadline as much as I do the result so I'm OK at this point.

I would like to be satisfied that I'm ready for shooting by the end of April for our Field league, but we shall see.

I gave up hunting this season to start Jim's program. I am only on day 8 but not having any urges to release the arrow. I figured if my shooting was so bad that I needed the program I didn't need to be shooting at animals. I will gladly put this season on pause if I can get this thing under control. I am following the directions to a "T" and intend to see it through to the very end. :o)

Jim I’m going to start your program this week! I’ll keep you posted.

Tom. will be day 35 for me.

Tom. will be day 35 for me.

What particular symptoms is the target panic being measured by.

dean,

The program I put together was one that helped me and a friend who have had this darn stuff FOREVER, it seems. Specifically, it is designed to eliminate short drawing, not being able to hold at anchor while aiming. In short, getting on target, be comfortable (at ease) while aiming and building confidence along the way. The first 21 days is designed to retrain the brain to do just that. It’s heavily laced with wall drills— drawing, going thru every aspect of your shot sequence, acquiring anchor and letting down. There is no blank or blind bail work in this program. No arrows are shot in the first phase.

Since we’re all different and some have the demon worse than others, some guys may be in complete control at the end of the 63 days; others may have to slow down and take more time. All that is pointed out in the Word document each of the volunteers received.

So far… all the reports I’ve received are all positive, save for one fellow who had to drop out due to health reasons.

These drills are a combination of things I learned from Len Cardinale, Rod Jenkins, TJ the target panic Guru and much trial and error on my part. I know it WORKED for my friend and me. I’m confident it'll help other too. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

P.S. cecil has been keeping me posted all along with his progress. I was very eagar to hear how everyone did on day 22 (the first day to shoot arrows). I was thrilled to learn cecil shot his day 22 arrows in complete control. I was thrilled for him.... and me. lol lol

Received this report from one of the volunteers:

"So, closing in on my drill to actually shoot an arrow, I shot day 19's regimen on the Field course today. My bud was shooting close range cause he is still chasing deer, it is a lot more enjoyable to me to walk the wooded course and do the drills than in the garage.

I am so comfortable with my shot sequence this week, trying to really pay attention to some of the finer points of the expansion movement. Thinking about direction of elbow movement and engaging scapula. There is so much to be said about this process and how it has brought me back on track to just that, the process, and not the outcome of any shot. When all you do is try to perform the steps in your shot sequence as perfectly as possible then that indeed becomes the focus...which is the purpose after all. lol

Seems very logical.

Absolutely no urges anymore even as I practice the expansion and imagine setting off the clicker. Very confident is how I feel. Also curious how, or if , adding the loose is going to change things. I'm guessing not much.

So..about a third of the way through and feeling good."

Awesome

Very interesting:

... and another report:

"This is my day 30. I had a late start cause we got married.. and yadda, yadda, yadda.....anyway this is working great. I think the real reinforcement is drawing 9 times and shooting once, it teaches you to let down for sure. I even had a couple instances where on the 10th arrow it didn’t feel right. And I was able to say... NO. And just let down. And then shoot the 11th. Working well man. I’ll keep you posted! Thanks for a great system"

For me, TP had everything to do with compounds, competition, and scoring rings. The stress for perfection brought it on.

When I totally switched to traditional, pure instinctive aiming, and just shooting at "stuff", the TP left and never came back. It's been 32yrs of just shooting for fun without my former mental block. If I get in a funk (usually right before bow season) I go roving, instant improvement.

Shooting arrows is supposed to be fun. If I keep it that way I have no issues.

Another report:

"For the first time in over 10 years I can anchor, aim and shoot in control. Sometimes I still get antsy but I can let down and start over. When I feel insecure I just move closer and do a few let down drills. I hope that is OK."

My reply was, "OF COURSE that's okay. That's what this is all about. Having the tools to know how to kick the demons butt. Congratulations and thank you for all the hard work you've put in. I trust it will only get better."

The latest reports:

"I've been following your formula to the tee EXCEPT I stayed with my same weight bow(44lbs). Today I ran down to Lancaster archery and bought 30 lb limbs for my Satori. Today was day 43 and I shot from 5-30 with the lighter limbs with complete control. Shoulda bought them to start. I'll finish these last 20 days with them. Thanks for your help"

"Jim, day 18 is under my belt and doing great to this point. I have utterly no urge to release. I have settled into a comfortable 31” draw. I am following the program to a “T”."

Jim,

A very good friend of mine got you’re detailed formula/TP cure along with the Excel spreadsheet and forwarded them to me. He didn’t think he’d have the fortitude to give up shooting for that long -but I do!

Anyway, I’ve begun began your program 2 days ago and wanted to talk to you about it however I am unable to send you a private message for some reason. I keep getting an error page. Would love to connect about this as it is been a battle for me for over 35 years. If you can’t reach me through a PM on the LW feel free to use my email: [email protected]

And thanks for Taking the time and energy to share your ideas and maybe grow them with us here on the LW!

J.

Jason, do the program as designed. It takes a commitment but I think you will be pleased with the results. I just completed day 20...I can shoot an arrow in a couple of more days!!! I expect it will go great. I actually am having fun just being able to relax and focus on retraining my brain.

Thanks for the encouragement David! I’ve connected with Jim (got your email Jim!) and I’m doin’ it! Day 3 done and LOOKOUT! :-))

Good for you Jason. Today I finish day 21...tomorrow I can let one go!!! I am enjoying the process.

Maybe I should try this. I may need surgery on my middle, string finger, so I can't shoot much anyhow...

Jim, would you kindly consider sending me your suggestions on this. I will rise to the occasion. Actually, I'm doing pretty darn good now that I've been working on shot sequence for a good 6 months or more.

Get's a little dicy at 3D events, lol so I'd like to give this an honest try

day 23 and all is well. I am enjoying drawing and shooting without that hellish urge to SHOOT IT!! :o)

WONDERFUL news Dr. David. Kick the demon's butt!!!!!!

Just talked to Al Smith. He's up to hunting weight, feel'n good and in control for the first time 30+ years.

Jim, looking forward to the results sounds encouraging.

The latest report (today).

"Jim, I just completed day 50. I'm in complete control and it feels sooooo good. Thanks so much..."

Up-date. I just finished the day 27 exercises and boy am I pleased. Now shooting at 15 yards with utterly no urge to blow up. LOL Jim emphasizes "immersing" yourself in aiming. That needs to be emphasized because one of the big issues with TP is the urge to release the moment you get even close to the target. To retrain your brain not to have that "idea" it is crucial to do the shot sequence steps and then FOCUS, FOCUS, Focus on the spot you intend to shoot...when you are ready. Thus far I am extremely pleased with the results. It requires discipline to follow the regimen as laid out. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. It is so pleasant to shoot an arrow at 15 yards now in control. :o)

More great news, Dr. David. Of all the volunteers, I figured you to be one that would have the mental fortitude to follow the drills TO-THE-LETTER.

I'm counting on you to be the poster child for success. How's that for added pressure?

:^)

Day 6 for me. I keep going back a day or two because I need to take a day off now and then, like you suggested Jim, because of shoulder problems. These exercises, along with the physical therapy ones and stretches are beginning to make a difference! Two days back I bumped up from 23# to 30# which may seem like nothing weight but it's been a HUGE growth for me! :-)

No TP! but today's the big day of moving up to 5 yards! LOL!

Takin' my time...

The latest report (today) from a volunteer closing in on the last days:

"Today is day 61 I have 3 days to make up. my shots are controlled shots now. I plan to keep right on with the 4 let downs and shoot one arrow."

Another report today:

"Performed day 32 drills earlier today, really amazing how this works. I was at the range and had some folks show up, had to explain why I was letting down so much. ha ha They were familiar with TP though and also amazed at how these brain exercises are working.

Of course they wanted to see how the actual shots went too and I was glad to have the pressure myself, the real deal. Executed the shots just like executing the "let downs" , great stuff...."

The latest report:

"Jim, day 54 is under my belt. I had a hiccup the other day. My very first draw at 5 yds I let loose. I have no idea why except my mind was somewhere else. I got right back on track though and am doing well. I've been mixing my excersizes up between 30 lb and 39 lb bows.... There is no doubt in my mind that this is working and I can feel confidence growing and doubt lessening."

Day 31 checked off this afternoon--half way through nearly. I got to shoot at 20 yards! No yips, jerks, no little demon in my head screaming SHOOT. This is so cool and I am actually having fun doing it--look forward to my daily sessions. Feeling calm and in control feels so good, AAAAH. :o)

Just finished day 8. Anxiety is way down as can be expected at this point. Having been relegated to snap shooting I've never been able to concentrate on a point of aim for more than a flash but now doing it 30 times a day before let down. Tomorrow I need to go out to 20yd so need to be at the club range at sunrise to make it to work on time. Guess you can say I've committed to make this happen. Thanks for the opportunity, Jim.

Krag,

I'd highly suggest that you DO NOT try to advance beyond your complete control. If you're feeling any anxiety just stay put for a while, or even go back a step. You're in no hurry here.

The latest report:

"Merry Christmas Jim. I’m in Michigan for Christmas and took my bow. I just have 2 days left and this is a great Christmas present to be shooting in control..."

Day 38 done today and still amazed at the results I am experiencing. This is the best approach to treating the dreaded archer's affliction I have seen.

The latest report from Jim Keller:

"I’ve had target panic for over 50 years in all forms imaginable shooting compounds with releases and fingers and also with my traditional bows. I took Joel Turners online course and though that helped me a LOT, I still had tp.

So when Jim graciously made his off for 12 volunteers to try what helped him, I signed up. I committed and gave up my archery season to try and once for all get this demon off me.

So it began and I followed it to the Tee except I started it using my hunting bow and not going with a real light bow.

I did eventually get new 30 pound limbs and kept going following Jim’s program as he spelled out.

His program WORKS. I am now shooting controlled shots.

I believe I will always have to fight it at times, but have learned how to combat it and only shoot controlled shots....

... I love shooting and shooting in control is so much better...."

I think we've seen enough evidence to-date. So far... EVERYONE that has followed these drills TO-THE-LETTER has had success.

So... it's time to just pass it along.

:^)

All you need to do is PM me your email address and I'll forward a PDF file to you.

Jim Casto Jr keep getting server error ?

Some folks need to hit the "Private Reply" link in the center of the page rather than the handle link.

I've sent you a PM. You should be able to reach me by return path.

Jim, I cannot initiate a PM to you but I can reply. If you message me I'll send my email address.

Thanks, Phil

GEE WHIZ!!!!!

I had no idea so many were following this thead and were consumed with the demon.

I'm sure if you guys follow these drills TO-THE-LETTER you'll be successful.

Keep the PM's coming.... I'll try to keep up.

:^)

Jim, I'm like Phil. Please send me a PM with your email. Thanks Shick

“after day one im finding I have it in myself to draw and hold without shooting...I bet I did 30-40 draw and hold with no shot today and Im already feeling much better..” I found this to be helpful too. It’s also good to practice your draw, anchor and hold. A solid foundation that I built as a 11 year old had to be revisited.

One last post in this thread--I think.

:^)

I just wanted to thank all the volunteers for their hard work and effort. The results, thus far, have been even better than I could have hoped for. Many are still at it and others are just beginning on other forums. While we have a lot of anecdotal evidence here, time will tell and give a more definitive conclusion.

So... if anyone else is interested, just PM me you email address and forward the PDF file of the drills to you.

Happy New Year to everyone and may all of you be in complete control of every shot.

:^)

I cannot PM you Jim. My email is [email protected]

I would appreciate if you email the PDF file. Thank you.

SixLomaz, if Jim didn't get in touch yet let me know and I can send you the regimen. Jim is away on a hog hunt and asked me to fill in with any help anyone might need. If anyone wants the program, you can PM me or email at [email protected]. I am one of Jim's satisfied clients. :o)

OK, it's been a while since any results have been posted by folks using Jim's TP program. So I'll pass on my experience. I did day 59 today--only 4 more to finish. I am able to shoot back at the 30 yard distance the program calls for at this point. I have absolutely no TP symptoms whatsoever. I have not been able to do that in so long I can't remember when. This has put a new joy and excitement into my archery. For anyone on the program, stay the course, follow the instructions exactly, don't rush things, and don't shoot an arrow before the time it calls for.

One other thing, I am convinced that it is important that you begin the program AIMING at a specific spot rather then introduce a target later. I believe that has been a huge help to me.

I'm just trying to figure out what sort of "graduation" I need to plan for now. LOL

Hey David, you and a bunch of others have caught up and passed me on the drills because of bad weather and life scheduling but am determined to hang in there and do it right for Jim.

Looks like this weekend I will get to shoot day 46 and 47. It's an amazing thing and I hope it brings relief to all those who desire it.

I'm thinking for my graduation that it's going to be fun to shoot two arrows in a row, that will be weird.

Dr. David,

I'm going to be eager to hear a report from you while you're in Florida chasing those pigs. I want a FULL report of that first PRESSURE shot. I'm thinking that may be the graduation present you were looking for.

:^)

Now you're putting pressure on me, Jim. LOL Yeah, I'm excited to see how that is going to go.

Just wanted to publicly thank Jim. I have been having some problems with TP recently. Not out of control yet but I know that it will be if I do not get control of it now. I reached out to Jim today and he sent me the program. Thanks again, Jim

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