Watching the outdoor channel tonight I couldn't help but notice how competive whitetail hunting has gotten. Guys taking videos of their hunts and going after super slam this and that. Hit list and so on. I don't feel much like a hunter by just going to my cabin to hunt deer. Any deer
I agree they piss me off to, nothing but a sales pitch. I’d love to watch those guys on tv hunt state game lands for deer and turkeys. I bet we could teach them a thing or two about hunting pressured game.
I am no more judgmental about, or concerned with, what they shoot, than someone shooting a forkhorn on public land. By the same token, I expect the same courtesy if I pass on young deer on my land or other public land to give them a chance to meet their potential. My freezers are seldom empty.
I know what you mean. Now I kinda feel the same after last year hunting only targeted animals and this year not being able to really hunt anyways at least not yet I am seeing some things differently.
A buddy shot a buck he had saved for someone else and they didn't show up so he shot the animal. He showed me a photos of a white buck and I wanted that deer really bad but didn't say anything to him other than it was beautiful. The deer is at his wifes sons house who is a none hunter. He said ok Glenn if you want to go over there I will ask if I can bring you over. The son in law said yes bring him over.
Ok waiting on the call when the deer gets more regular again? Now waiting on the call. I didn't go get my licences yet though so I better at least get that ready to do.
I'm just feeling better lately thinking I can go out and sit in blind at least over bait and shoot the animal.
Now we all know that's no hunt its just a shoot is all that it is and a certain animal that has been selected.
Watching trail cams and selecting animals is like opening a catalog and picking out an animal. LOL
I know this might ruffle some feathers but I been at it all for a long time and last year I would not have said it this way but this season has been going on and I am just starting to think about it. Haven't been shooting so I better cut the overgrowth off targets and hope to start shooting again.
I felt pretty good today like I could have gone out back and hunted or shot the bow.
Its a whole new world for me these days. LOL
Its easy to get really caught up in picking and choosing animals but it also can translate into fish as well. I have none both pulling baits away from small fish so not to waste any time on a small fish. Running animals off stand because were small. Forcing animals or fish to do things others would not do. LOL
It can get really deep guys if you really think about it. I guarantee you don't get to see it all what really happens on camera shoots that are watched on TV.
I flipped the tv over to the pursuit channel last night for a bit which is possibly the second time this year. A guy had his hit list laid out basically and was going into sub detail about each buck and their habits, age, etc. Lol Well one of them shows up and he takes a hail Mary (to me anyway) shot at him shooting over his back. The next hunt it shows the same guy in the stand again when two nice bucks almost come in. Well it didn't matter because he was shooting again anyway. Not sure how far the deer actually was but he stated on camera it was 45 yards. He draws and shoots (I cringed) and the deer turned before the arrow was half way there. Which turned a very bad shot into just a bad shot luckily for him. The guy says he's pretty sure he got the heart on that one! Nope the deer was wounded and luckily lived, at least he said so. I was raised and taught you do not shoot unless you are 100% sure you can make the shot with a rifle and that archery is a close range only game and you never shoot past 30 yards regardless if you can drive tacks at 100. Game animals simply move to much and to quickly for such a slow moving projectile to be sure enough about a long range shot. I just can't wrap my head around it!! And even worse is seeing all the first archery deer kill pics each year with shot distances of 50-60 yards or more.lol I'm like really?
For this reason that's why I talk about killers so much and I know it ticks others off but there is a every big difference in all this.
Killers do just that they kill animals. Other guys say that's not hunting no its really not as some understand it it's killing.
To get called in on animals that others are working them for you isn't hunting its just shooting and you are executing the shot.
You want to walk around the bush that's ok and screw it up that's also ok if you think that's really hunting? LOL
Ask yourself wheres your animal to show for your efforts?
There's a lot of ways to look at all these things and to say what is being done this or that is ok or is not? You all have the opportunity to do things the way you think you should and when you do it. Why talk about whats being shown it's like Hollywood what being shown to appeal to public.
I learned not to bash anything like this that is being shown what they did on that day.I know there's things not shown as well that were possible so I take things with a grain of salt. LOL
Just two days ago I watched the last couple minutes of a bowhunting show where they were hunting elk in NM. The wheelie shooter takes a very long shot (I might guess around 80 yards) and hits the nice bull in the middle of the back leg. I was suprised they would show that. Then the shooter says something like "oh, the elk moved. that just happens sometimes when you take these long shots". Sorry show to be sure.
80 yard shot into the back leg of an elk? And then 'Oh well'? On tv? I'd like to beat that punk over the head with his bow.
If I said how I REALLY felt about those kind of jagoffs, I'd probably invent some new cuss words and be banned from this site.
I refuse to watch it or listen to a word they say, there or anywhere else. I couldn't name a single hunting ad-show personality. I refuse to buy anything they advertise and refuse to talk about their shows with coworkers and such. Son of a..., it pisses me off.
My buddy did this ...t to his kid & it infuriates me. His kid after he sits over his huge food plot will say I only seen a some small scrub bucks. Nothing worthwhile. Don’t hunt with these people anymore just plain idiotic & no respect for the animal. Sadly hunting is commercialized & these Idiots are the result.
Never watch those shows, I disconnected the cable years ago. More time to pursue my other interest and hobbies of which I have quite a few. I will watch a recorded older movie on occasion. I can't imagine a show like that being good for hunting in the eye of people who know little about hunting. Just my opinion.
I can appreciate someone who takes the time to cultivate their own land and who will work hard to improve the health of the heard. Someone that puts in their time to harvest the Most mature Buck or Doe they can ethically and within their states game laws and who appreciates having it on their table to feed their families. I have tremendous respect for these types of hunters and there are still a lot of them out there. TV personalities who also have hunting shows or infomercials about industry products are a dime a dozen. I think there are some sincere people out there that really do love the traditions of hunting and just like anything there are some who only want to kill a big buck to make a buck. Its a machine and I don't know that we can do much to stop it. I try anymore to just do my own thing. I left the world of compounds, gadgets and gizmos last season and I'm so happy I did. going the route of recurves and longbows has made archery and bow hunting fun again. Just like anything in life I believe all "hunters" will eventually come full circle like I did at some point we may just need to nudge them. I hunt the way I want with the method I want and I won't apologize for it to anybody. Given the opportunity to witness to other hunters about the traditional connection to hunting should never go to waste.
I don't watch hunting show on tv anymore either. Not only do I not have the channels that carry those shows but most of those of those so called hunters that were on the shows were so phony. The only show I did like was Eastman Outdoors. I'd be willing to bet most of the game killed on hunting shows come from a canned hunt.
It's now all about the Benjamin's Boy's. High dollar, high fence, and make it look easy , sell more gadgets. It has helped in some ways hunters in my area hunters seem to be a bit more selective in the deer they take not necessarily shooting every small buck that strolls by. It's created a sort of stigma about shooting young deer. Before in my area if it's brown it's down was the most common practice. There are a few legit guys on the outdoor channel, granted not many. I still enjoy Fred Eichler's show and Randy Newberg. Pick and choose your favorites, An upside guys like Levi Morgan who seems like a great example for young hunters definitely get more kids interested and give them some one to idolize other than ball players. I know it a stretch but I'm trying to find some positive things about these shows.
If I were to ever watch any kind of hunting video, it would be solely to watch animal behavior and see the animals I'd not have otherwise, but I could care less about the people shooting them. I can learn something by observing the animals behavior. But mostly I don't watch because all the whooping it up and high fiving is enough to turn my guts.
These threads calling out the BS on hunting shows will never get old. The horrible music, the whispering, the stupid face paint, "I smoked him", "I hit him a little far back", etc., etc. As sickening as these shows are, you don't have to watch golf. Turn the TV off, call and cancel your cable, and go shoot some arrows.
I agree with most if not all from previous posts. I will say that the one I do watch is called Meat Eater. I like to watch Steve, hunting public lands, do it yourself type of hunting. When did cameras take the place of good old fashioned scouting, learning and educating ones self to how deer or any animal is moving, etc. Have we become that lazy, that we cannot go out and walk the woods, take notes, glass to see what is moving and when?? And do not get me started on the Thanksgiving diners I have seen guys put out to attract Deer, etc. I am good with mock scrapes, tarsal gland drags and hanging a scent strip in a low hanging branch. But to put out oats, corn, liquid drinks, smoke sticks, anything else they seem to eat?? Sorry to rant on. I can say for sure, my son will learn the way it should be done, and the reasons why!!
I hate the modern hunting shows. They really do suck. Lee and Tiffany are the epitome of what is wrong with the modern HUNTING Industry. Selling their crappy products throughout the show. The crap they always say "I cant believe I finally got it done with the stick and string on the last day". Ugh!!!! your shooting a precision arrow launching machine with a built in range finder and sights, any monkey could shoot a deer with that!
I agree with all, guys. Have any of you watched Meat Eater?? Steve seems to be a stand up guy, hunts the right way and typically fixes a portion of the harvest by end of show. I watch this one only! Mostly gun, but occasionally he uses a bow to.
I didn't get into hunting until I was in my late 20's. My step Dad bought me a box of new VHS video's with Primos, realtree, and Roger Raglin included. I enjoyed them very much and followed there yearly video's for a good decade or more. Fast forward 20 years. I still love and respect Roger Raglin, but can't watch any of them anymore. I switched from a compound bow to a recurve bow and also switched to traditional dvd's and watched them for another decade. Now adays I'd rather go hunting than watch any hunting shows.
Yep. There was a kid at the club the other day who got out his gear and did some shooting while his dad sat in the car reading something... with the motor running...
So I'm guessing the kid was too young to drive, maybe?
Nice-looking kid, called everybody "Sir", friendly, all that...
Then he told me that he'd missed a shot o a 10-pointer at 40 yards. Shot low, figured he'd hit brisket because there was white hair on the arrow, but it was OK because he "harvested" a doe later that day.
I didn't mention that there's a whole lot more white hair to hit as you go farther back. I did mention that 40 is a helluva long shot with a bow, and he said "yeah, but my pretty good".
Nice kid. But I walked away more than a bit concerned about who his mentors are.
Most of the time I watch because nothing else much on the TV. I'll switch it to a hunting channel and they are farming or putting feed out setting up feeders, practicing shooting thee old crossbow. Just makes me want to get more and more primative.
You all should do what you see fit and be sure to have fun doing it. When you shoot a buck worthy of your choice this year, be it a 10-point or a spike, do your best to try to refrain from saying; "I smoked him!" .
iv got friends that are addicted to horns I also have friends that are addicted to billfish (marlin) I never have been nor will be a (trophy) gatherer. I'm a meat gatherer. I will admit that every year I take the 2nd week of Nov off & hunt hard that week & if a big buck comes by I will kill it & be proud of it but by that time usually iv already killed 6-8 does. I can guarantee you this 3 things that WILL NOT MAKE YOU A BETTER OR BIGGER MAN are billfish big bucks & deisel pickup trucks
I know it is popular on here to bash the hunting shows (I've been guilty of it as well), but these shows do promote the sport we all love. Every year we lose more and more hunters, so we can use all the promotion we can get.
If you don't like the shows because of the product promotion, then you must only watch PBS, because EVERY show on television is selling products.
I watch a select few that I enjoy and they are all on YouTube. Bill Winke does a good job on Midwest whitetail although I wish they'd hunt with trad gear... I stopped watching the cable channels for all the reasons stated throughout this thread. Its all about grip n grin and pleasing sponsors. Honestly I'm really starting to enjoy the podcasts and there are quite a few traditional ones to choose from. Check em out!
Low country, in no way shape or form have I seen a loss in hunters, especially out where I live. In fact, the amount has increased exponentially. There are so many out here it has come to the point where I am thinking of stepping out and leaving the competition to the masses.
The commercialism of it all is killing hunting as I grew up knowing it. Sad as hell. We got "facebook" hunters galore. Telling everyone where the deer and elk are. It is madness. 80% or more public land and you cannot find a place to go where you do not see people.
i stopped watching most of them years ago, but i dont like that new hunters think that what they are seeing is hunting, it often something lije pro bass fishing and lots of marketing. i got into trad so that i now mostly hunt for shots close shots. the older celeb hunters often took very long shot esp for their time and gearbut they never advocated others doing or even talked about it. chuck adams and jim ryan wereknown to take game at 100yd but they didnt talk about it. fred bear and paul schafer also shot at some serious trad distances but also didnt promote it they were all amazing shots and most people just arent and i suspect they knew that
The above video is liked, loved, cherished, etc. by young hunters. We are at an interesting point in hunting history. Young, answer at the click of a button, kids are now our hunters. They do not have the patience we have. Instant gratification is their mantra. Otherwise, they lose interest. I was so proud this year. This kid, who all of you longtime have watched over the years. My son Logan got his first bow kill last week.
there alk about $$$ and selling their products. If they arent killing big deer then there not going to sell their products. IMO most of the deer are on "ranches" were its a controlled hunt and fenced in enclousers. We all know you dont kill big deer that they show every week after week after week.
Well I watched it Jimmy; although I skipped to the beginning of the cluster. I had the thought toward the end that if the buck would have cooperated and run down the road they’d just have run over him. End justifies the means. Disturbing how they never showed any regret over the days of suffering the animal experienced. In the end it was all about antlers and what great hunters they were.
Listen at very beginning the one guy says they were doing it like the ‘natives’ of the past did it. Only thing they (natives) didn’t have a SUV to cut off the prey LOL. Sad to put that garbage out to be seen by anybody.
That video is from whitetail adrenaline those guys hunt hard! They hunt public land and from the ground. Yeah he hit that deer bad, but how many of you have done the same. Give him credit for never giving up on that deer.As for the accuracy I'm sure he has his days just like we all do. I can't believe how judgemental this group is on here. It's unreal.
They hunt hard lmao! Was it hard scouting from the road? Was the road dangerous with land mines? That idiot shot the deer in the leg & could careless. Then after the leg hit the idiot launches another unethical shot. I have no respect for anybody who hunts like that. The 2nd Shot really disgusts me!
Did you see the country they're hunting. If you watch the whole video. It's wide open country. They drive until they find public land on maps. They look for deer and then game plan and go in after them. So your telling me you never drive around and look for deer in the areas you hunt. So I'm a lazy because I drive around in the summer and early fall and watch deer in the fields? Then come fall make a move and go in after them?
Perfection has nothing to do with a Idiot taking stupid shots. I’m gonna ask you straight up without you diverting to such stupidity like “ Perfection”. After the 1st shot the retard launches a Hail Mary was that ethical? Don’t deflect it’s a yes or no.
I don't agree with the hail Mary at all. All I'm saying is the guys not an "idiot" I'm sure at some point in your hunting career you got caught up in the moment and took a questionable shot. Maybe not that questionable but still not greatest decision. Now I've met these guys and they are great people and do hunt hard.Maybe their methods don't stack up to your standard but with a limited time to hunt out of state in that type up terrain driving around has to be done. Try to take more into consideration when insulting someone. Jarrod should not have flung that 2nd arrow but he never gave up on that deer. I bet there is alot of folks who would have given up as soon as they saw where that 1st arrow hit.
No he’s an idiot that’s my opinion. Think he would showed the footage if his 2nd arrow hit the animal in the jaw with the arrow sticking out. He is a complete idiot because he’s after that deer for its rack no matter what. Doesn’t matter to him he has no shot he’s taking it anyway. Complete idiot & I'd tell that to his face & tell him I said so.
So this thread started out about what antlers and money are doing to hunting, and how hunting shows teach unethical actions to would be hunters.
Yes, most have made poor shots and had some stomach burn about it. Listen to these two; all I hear is how this is a deer of a lifetime and how torn up they are that the shooter might not end up possessing those antlers. Never once did I hear regret about that animal suffering.
Why put this out as for fodder for the world to see?
You sir are not what I expected from a trad guy.Ive had great dealings with mostly everyone, but I've heard if a few on here and I'm going out on a limb and guessing your one. Just like what was stated above. Don't watch these shows if you don't like them. It's really pretty simple. This whole food plot, growing bigger deer, trail cams etc. Is exhausting....if you don't want to partake then dont. Just like most of us choose not yo shoot a compound. But I'm not gonna bash a guy for using one. As to your hit it in the jaw comment I bet he would have shown it. Just like he showed the leg hit. Your negativity and attitude are why people are being driven away from archery. I still don't agree with the 2nd shot but that one mistake doesn't label a person.
Jimmy Blackmon posted it. I would never watch this guys show. Don’t assume you know me, my viewing habits, etc.. As for standards you defending this guy & even giving him credit is laughable. As far people being driven away from Archery anybody who takes Hail Mary’s should put the bow down. I’ve also helped plenty of Archers so your High Horse nonsense is just that.
Is your version of s “Trad Guy” a guy who shoots Hail Maty’s @ deer cause it’s a trophy? Maybe you need to reassess your definitions. If I am one those one you’ve been warned about I’ll be the BAD GUY it’s ok I can handle it.
JMO, having heard and seen that hit, I’m 90% certain that I would’ve gone for the follow-up.
I would NOT, however, been caught referring to these huge deer as “punks” and whatever other insults they chose to bleep out.
That’s not a hunt that I could’ve enjoyed, but I’m not obsessed with inches of bone the way these guys are. Frankly, I think it’s arguable (and not just a little bit so) that they were WAY over the line as regards pursuit with a motor vehicle. Maybe some of it can be excused because they were after the wounded buck, but...
And blowing off a wounded animal as just a normal part of Bowhunting is not exactly the message we should be putting out there.
Ok Jimmy, you asked for opinions so here's mine; That ain't huntin and they ain't hunters. That's some of the worst trash I've ever seen on video. And yes I've hunted country like that but not from an SUV.
All this stuff on TV - ALL of it, good or bad - is driven by advertising dollars.
If it's bad, 'Don't watch it' is a good start, but better if you write to the advertisers and networks explaining why you will not only not watch, but you will make sure to *not* buy their products, as long as they support garbage 'hunting'.
Money talks, and it's the only thing they listen to.
"5. They could ALL be titled, 'Stuff That Never Happens To Me'."
Did you ever wonder why it's the pimply-faced pizza delivery guy who gets jumped by a room-full of desperate Amazons?
Because that's who watches that crap. Pure Fantasy for people who don't have the prospects or the motivation to go out and find a meaningful relationship and spend so much time consuming the Fantasy that they wouldn't know the Real Deal if it kicked a boot up their back-end, so they sit on the couch watching somebody else pretend to be doing what they think they wish that they could do.
So that video Jimmy posted. 15 minutes of highlight footage from probably an entire season or more, and they still ended up showing us mostly the same guy just yapping at the camera and trying to sound like he's the Real Deal.
I guess the good news is that anybody who gets into hunting expecting anything remotely similar is going to lose interest REAL FAST.... And (we hope) before they wound too many animals...
Finally got some time to catch up. I want to defend a couple of things. The logic of don't watch it if you don't like it doesn't work. I watched it because the still shot showed the guy with a longbow. I was interested in seeing a good longbow hunt. I had no idea where the video would take me until I watched it. Fortunately, I was viewing the free trailer. Now that I have had the opportunity to see the content, I'll not purchase the full video. That's the best I can do.
"Questionable shots," is a relative term. Sure, we've all made, or rather missed, with a poorly executed shot, but there is a huge difference in studying the deer's habits, scouting well, setting up, trying to set the conditions for a perfect shot and then executing poorly verses racing through ditches after chasing a deer in a van and then injuring the deer with a poorly executed shot. Hopefully, you see the ethical distinction. In the first scenario, you do everything you can to get a high percentage shot and get a clean kill. In the second, you know that you'll likely get a low percentage shot, but you wing it anyway.
I'm not calling the guy names or running him down the road, but I do disagree with the way he chooses to hunt. It may not bother him, but it crosses my ethical limits. Also, if he posts the video online, he opens himself up to criticism. We are entitled to an opinion. Once you start posting videos, you enter that world. I knew that when I began making videos. I've been called horrible names, my integrity questioned with some of the long shots etc., but I knew that going in.
Finally, I posted this video noting that these types of things excite young kids. Generationally, we are changing. What appeals to them may not be what appeals to us. We will disagree, so in the end as long as it's legal they can do it. They like high excitement and have been desensitized to death and carnage. Their video games are more graphic than any movie I saw growing up. I almost threw up the first time I saw The Exorcist." They would laugh at that.
Jimmy I understand what you were showing, but like you said it got a lot worse when it went to that amatuer with the compound, he should have gotten one of the other fellows to shoot the second shot as he proved he couldn't hit the side of a barn while standing inside of it.
If I flubbed up the first shot, I guarantee I wouldn't the second one.
I don't think anyone should film a hunt, it should be experienced by the notice first hand, he would learn more and retain it than watching someone else. He or she would have many expectations after watching a film and probably mess up or be discontented with the outcome expecting something different.
Dana - did you not see that they don’t have any sponsors?
They probably think that gives them extra credibility while they build up a big enough base of Fan-Boys to where they’re ready to sell out.
Jimmy - I agree with you whole-heartedly, though that’s not to say that I’m not a huge fan of Spot&Stalk. I just draw the line at using anything other than human (or equine) power to move the Hunter from A to B in pursuit of an animal. I’m fine with a bicycle, but even an e-bike is disqualifying, IMO. That’s one area in which I hope there will never be a legal loophole, no matter how small the motor might be.
Some will say that’s a double-standard if I’m OK with riding horseback, and maybe it is, but it's hardly a meaningless distinction. No loopholes required.
And yes, moving from where you spotted an animal into an ambush location is Pursuit.
It seams to me that a lot of people on here got bit by the bowhunting bug by watching Fred Bear's exploits on the "American Sportsman". Along with films by Howard Hill, Ben Pearson and the Wilhelm brothers. Good or bad, the current crop of videos is just a continuation of that long standing tradition. Use your own good judgement. bvd
And Babysaph is the winner! If people are weak minded enough(a d they are and have been) to let others dictate what they do?? This forum nor any other educational source will do them any good. Can't save the world folks, but maybe your backyard.
I’m curious as to whether anybody has an opinion on how long that “hail Mary” actually was?
I saw the arrow way up in the air; looked like he lobbed it over the rack. But wide angle lenses make everything look farther away, telephoto lenses make everything look closer, and that deer still looked pretty big. So I have no clue.
40-50, I’m getting plenty comfortable enough to take a follow-up on a hit deer; 60 to 80, I might hold the line, but I usually fall short.
I quit watching hunting shows a long time ago. The whole tv thing has changed the way hunting is looked at. Here in my part of southern indiana it has caused a lot of leasing. Whitetail property television has even been selling ground here too. That has caused the price of property yo skyrocket. I really notice the difference in younger hunters. Their whole reason for hunting is to kill a massive deer. I grew up hunting in the 80s. We just tried to get a deer. If a big one walked by we would take it. Or a 6 pointer. Today it's digital scouting. Can't walk in the woods until the rut. Don't shoot it unless it's a trophy. Everybody has a lease. Not me. I'm shooting small deer on state ground for free and loving every minute of it.
It's outa control! What Did he SCORE?? Ya get him under a 100 yards? Lota youngsters buying into the GAME..Did you find you Deer after that 100 yard shot outa the back of your RAZOR? NA!But I shot another at 80 yards. Couldn't find him either! OH Well we will give it Hell Tomorrow.> I could go on BUT! don't want to anger to many Folks, JUST SAYIN1
What is wrong with people wanting to let deer get big? It's their own property, their own $ that they invest in food plots etc. I'm struggling to find what is so wrong with "growing big bucks". If it's not a fenced in ranch I'm failing to find any wrong doing. As far as asking what did he score?? What's difference in that and someone posting my turkey had a 10" beard 2" spurs. I see that alot on here, but no hate messages on that.
Aimsmall15 - I concur. Nothing wrong with choosing to look for a large buck. If you want meat then does eat very well.
As for the Hail Mary shot, I just hate the way I feel when I wing one and then track forever to no avail. The older I get the worse I seem to feel. I detest that feeling of knowing that I hit one in the guts and that it's going to die, but I can't find it.
When you shoot the long shot you exponentially increase the likelihood of a wound shot vs. a kill shot. That's why I personally keep them short. Man, I've watched some big bucks and never got the shot, but I felt a heck of a lot better than if I'd lobbed one in and wounded them.
Agree, animal deserves yer best viable shot. Hunting Sacajawea country last year in a trophy unit i had the biggest non typical bull i have ever had in kill range. 27-30yds. I was sure i could make the shot. Had to shoot over then under some small boughs. I let him walk by. I still ponder if i made a mistake? Then, realize it was worth just seeing rake that fir to shreds.
Wow. I dont know what's worse, TV hunters or trad guys who cant hit the 10 ring, but laugh and tell their buddy's that would of killed it. I'd put a 10 down, but we aren't turning in our score cards anyway. We don't need to watch TV to see unethical hunters, plenty amongst us and probably the loudest TV bashers. Maybe this should be its own topic for another thread.
I took a shot this afternoon, it was a long one, about 65 yards, and he was a big one, so I used a 3rivers Hammer blunt. About two inches over his back. He ran a bit and then stopped again, I held the point about a a foot over him and let another blunt fly, he moved and the arrow almost hit the end of his tail. He got away, but I found both of my Hammer arrows back. Later I had two yearling does come out, about the same distance, they were lucky that weren't squirrels, with that long range practice in, I might have gotten them.
Unethical hunters, in this case are we fretting about the possible fate of the deer or simply the actions of an aggressive hunter? We see how many deer there always along our roads, 12 in a ten mile stretch in September, a highway bordered by a small river with minimal woods. Among my bowhunting friends not one deer has been killed with a car, pickup or farm truck or semi, but the anti hunting woman down the street averages one a year. She totaled her mini cooper last week and everyone feels so bad for her. If she would put the damn iPhone down and watch where she is driving maybe she could not put another deer through the agony of doing from blunt force trauma, she cannot seem to understand that a deer on the shoulder can step out in front of her. Of course, it's always the deer's fault, according to her. She is not concerned about the deer, she is only concerned about the intentional actions of ethical hunters.
I once heard a bowhunter at a trad shoot say that he shoots all long shots. He said the outcomes were either he missed or hits the deer and kills it. He said his dog found all wounder deer and if it didn't kill the deer then it would still be living. I told him he was a maggot and we almost came push to shove. LOL. He reasoned he never loses deer because his dog finds all dead deer.
Gotta love the guys with dogs. My brother got into that crap with his black lab puppy this year. Maybe I haven't seen a true blood dog work but I see alot ot pot shots getting justified by I've got a dog, I know a dog etc.... I've run hounds all my life. I've learned alot about dogs and there handlers. You can tell a guys full of himself when he talks about his dog if he sings all the praises. Ask me about my beagle. Hes a smuck, does not like to pack, has a tenancy to roll in deer crap. Loves snakes for some reason. But if you wanna hunt rabbits, he will find one and run an honest line all day for ya. Everybody has faults, dont tell me your dog finds every deer. Kinda off topic but dogs and deer are a pet peeve of mine. Too many years of hounds I guess
If Larry can track an individual UN-wounded deer or bear by sight, you’d think that a good dog would have no trouble trailing a specific animal. Especially if it’s bleeding.
But that won’t do you any good if the dog pushes the deer onto property where you can’t follow it.
JMO, any animal recovered after it has spoiled or been worked over by scavengers doesn’t count as a clean kill.
It’s probably true that an animal hit between the rear edge of the scapula and the top of the diaphragm will either be dead in short order or recover completely, just so long as the arrow doesn’t remain where it prevents the wound from closing.
We had a little buck at the club that someone had hit through the shoulders and above the spine in no-man’s-land... one of the guys was able to put it down, but he was really suffering from infection. A real mess, I gather.
"What I would give to get through one topic without hearing the Trumpist Trumpeting....
I’m 100% on board with Ranger B. Heck, I once passed up a cow Elk at under 15 yards because I just wasn’t feeling Confident Enough (in that very moment) to take a completely unobstructed broadside.
And no regrets"
Exactly. And not that it should matter, but you've earned my respect.
A few years ago, I grunted in and passed on a huge buck at 10-12 yards, broadside, because I didn't feel the magic... a small portion of his lungs were covered by a limb. One of the biggest, and most handsome bucks I've ever seen. I could make that shot 95% of the time, but would pass it 100% of the time.... and I MEAN that. I smiled as he put a little distance between us, enough to make him secure from a selfbow hunter he suspected, and turned to look back, and a mutual calm came over us. From that moment until this one, I've been glad I didn't take that shot.
Everyone has triggers that throw in self doubt. Mine is deer that are looking at me. I know lots of people have cleanly killed deer that are staring them down, I have too, then one day I had a nice buck jump right as i was releasing, a clean miss, but i have never shot at another deer that was staring me down.