Bowhunter and guide attacked by grizzly

https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/this_just_in/article_fb78dcc0-94a9-5dab-804d-23991c46

Hip

That link don't seem to work, try this one:

https://buckrail.com/two-elk-hunters-attacked-by-bears-guide-still-missing/

Hip

I read on Bowsite they have located the body of the guide , sad.

Wow....my prayers for both guys and their families. It always amazes me when something like this happens...really puts things in perspective

Also read about an elk hunter that fell down a hill & ended up with a broadhead in his leg. sat phone got a helicopter there to fly him out. be careful out there

Yeah, it's a dam shame, the guide had 5 kids at home.

Hip

Sad event for sure. God Bless them & their Families.

If I am hunting in bear country I have both spray, and a large pistol on my belt (not in my pack).

I don't hunt areas, that don't allow me to carry a pistol. Period.

Rick

Rick, this is an account of what happened. The elk had been shot the day before and left overnight. The two bears had found it and were on scene when they dressed it out. "Chubon was able to run to his pack a few yards away and retrieve a pistol but was unable to safely fire a shot at the bear that had pounced upon Uptain. The attacking bear then spun, charged Chubon, grabbed his foot and dragged him to the ground. He sustained injuries to his leg, chest, and arm, but was able to throw the gun to Uptain and get loose before running from the scene to phone for help." Uptain was the guide. They found him deceased the next day. Only one bear attacked. Shotgun and 00 buck better than any pistol.

Very sad indeed. I wonder if that judge will have any regrets about stopping the Grizzly hunts?

I just returned from Turpin Meadows ranch, which is less then 1/4 mile from the trailhead where hunters head out into the wilderness area with their guides. The search party for the missing guide set up their command post there, just a day after we left. We were riding horses within 4-5 miles of where the attack occurred just two days before the event. We never had any problems with bears in the 3 years we've been at the ranch and we've been on many trail rides and hiked miles fishing the Buffalo Fork of the Snake River through heavy willow thickets along the river. We always carried bear spray on our belts. Seems to me the pistols should have been on the persons and not in the pack. Richard

That's too bad, that's one mistake that cost him and especially his family.

Sad story.

So sorry to hear this, prayers to the family.

I checked out that link yesterday...

One thing in the description above - I don’t think the bears were known to be on- scene when the guide & client started to work; no way would the defensive kit be stored in a pack if they knew there were bears around.... I’m actually really surprised that they didn’t have that stuff close at hand just on a principle. Especially on an animal that was left overnight....

Anyway...

From that one site, it sounds like Griz encounters are going through the roof, and in most of these cases the Wyo G&F folks are not “taking any action toward the bear”... Apparently the culture has shifted to where bears are given a get out of jail free card if it is determined that it was a defensive attack.

Reasonable people can disagree over whether bears should be prosecuted in case of a DLP mauling, I guess... (Defense of Life & Progeny). As long as the investigations are as thorough as when it’s a shooting, I guess that’s fair.

But this one with the guide...

#1, it’ll depend on the condition of the poor guy’s remains. If these bears have positively identified humans as Food, there’s no question whatsoever that BOTH have to go. If Mama Bear disappears a few days after she showed the cub how to steal an Elk from humans, all the cub will learn is that humans are a minor nuisance standing between them and a good feed.

But even if they’ve only figured out that humans are no more trouble than a coyote when it comes to claiming a carcass, that means that humans are now a Food Source, and that’s going to mean more Hunter-Bear encounters.

And MAN.... 5 kids. Is there a GoFundMe campaign set up for his family?

Prayers for his family, and prayers for a full recovery for the other man.

Why in the world would anyone carry a handgun in a pack? If it's not readily accessible, what's the use?

I was fishing once with a friend in a very remote backcountry area known for an abundance of bears. When we started fishing I asked him where is handgun was as I didn't see it on him anywhere (he had told me he was carrying). He proceeded to show me it was in a zippered compartment on the inside of his fishing sling-type pack. I asked him how in the world he was gonna drop his fly rod, pull that pack around, unzip the compartment on the backside, remove the handgun from the compartment and then remove the gun from it's holster, aim and fire before a predator (bear or human) was on him already? I told him if he was gonna carry his firepower like that he might as well left it at home, his pack would be a lot lighter. He thought a moment, removed the firearm from his pack, slid it onto his belt and onto his hip where he could actually get to it if needed quickly.

Like to know about a Go Fundme Account. I have hunted Utah 55 years, No Grizz, in Utah , Black Bears? You Bet..2 years ago starting with scouting trips July 17th until the start of the Archery season 8/23/17 . We seen and had 11 Lions on trail cams. I now Pack a 41 Mag on my hip 170 grain hollow points, The Black Bears have no fear of Man. To many Ding Dong and Twinkies tossed to em from trailers, And we had one lion sit and stare at us while we were sitting on a dirt road 18 yards,, could have cared less, 10 min stare down,, Please keep us all informed on the Gofund me Account. God Bless the Mans Family,

I think at close range Bear Assault is always a better option. I wish the canisters were easier to handle, they are a bit clumsy for one handed quick draw use. Buckshot is a more sure thing than a pistol, but bears can be sneaky and they are way faster than anyone ever counts on. I have been false charged by black bears, there is no way that i could have quick drawn a pistol on one of those, he came from out of no where. At least my wife could have sprayed him if it would have been a real attack.

To Larry's point, I've always wondered why the 12 ga. with buckshot is not the weapon of choice (where legal) in dangerous bear country. I was a fair shot with a S&W 629 44 mag when I owned one, but we're talking when the "stress needle" isn't twitching, must less pegged. I'd honestly expect I'd have as much chance knocking a charging bear out by throwing something like a .454 Casull at it. I have to think one's chances of getting out of a bad situation would be exponentially higher with the shotgun....and I wouldn't hunt where they weren't legal.

A double-barrel 12ga. PISTOL would be really nice to have in a bad bear situation. If they were legal.

It's a trade off, The large caliber magnum pistol is easier to carry and can be worn within easy reach while doing other things. A pump 12 ga is more deadly but sometimes a pain to carry. I've carried both at different times when I lived and worked in grizzy country. Luckily I did not have to use either to save my skin.

Hip

Brutal way to go just like a Shark. Its a challenge we all can face if we are in the way of them. I had a couple experiences I will never forget and no guns and no sprays. Lots of prayer. Lord got me out of it and spared me.

They did trap and kill both bears.

Double OO buck is not a particularly effective round for an animal with the characteristics of a Grizzly. A 12 gauge slug on the other hand is about as good as it gets.

Have they recovered the handgun?

Hip

I thought a judge delayed the grizzly hunts

What JusPassin said. The couple of researcher friends working grizzly studies I've known several years back, plus the two or three government personnel I've met in the field on study work all carried 12 gauge pumps with slugs. Some favor Brenneke slugs because they are harder cast, flatter nosed, and do not expand as much, hence deeper penetration.

I believe the Forest Services tested numerous calibers back when for their policy on Alaskan bear carry and the 12 gauge slugs or 00 buck didn't make the grade for lack of penetration, but then I don't believe they used Brenneke slugs to test. Several of the bigger bore or mag rifles passed the testing and went on the list of firearms to carry in the field, but I don't recall what they were.

Someone here should have much clearer information on the government testing and policy requirements, and maybe even if it has stood the test of time.

More information from a 2010 Forest Service Document for the Alaska Region is copied below. I was wrong about the shotgun slugs, and this is also for Alaska and would include brown bear along with grizzlies:

a. Authorized Firearms/Ammunition. (1) The .375 H&H Magnum rifle loaded with cartridges containing a minimum of 270 grain expanding bullets is considered the most effective weapon authorized by the Forest Service for bear protection. Other rifle and ammunition combinations may be used in cases where personnel do not feel competent to handle the recoil of the .375 H&H Magnum, or prefer to use an approved personal rifle of some other caliber. However, the 30.06 with 220 grain bullets shall be the minimum acceptable combination. (2) The 12-gauge pump shotgun, with minimum 18" barrel and 3" chamber, may be used as an option in lieu of rifles with an authorization from the Forest Supervisor. At a minimum, shotguns must be loaded with 2-3/4" magnum, 1-1/4 ounce slug. (3) Cartridges shall be "like-new" factory loaded ammunition. (4) Handguns (excluding LE&I) are not permitted on Forest Service work projects or in Forest Service crew quarters, camps, or vehicles. (5) Personal firearms must meet these minimum standards. (6) All Forest Service firearms shall be inspected at the end of each field season by an inspector designated by a line officer. Results of these inspections shall be included in the annual report. Except for minor maintenance, all repair work shall be accomplished by a qualified gunsmith.

Shame about the guide. Someone ought to do a public service and find the bear in question and turn its head into a canoe.

very tragic and sad for his family and friends

Maybe more details from the survivor will come out about how the attack unfolded too, but it seems from whats been reported the sow showed no fear or hesitation of engaging humans to claim a carcass. Makes me wonder if there was some habituation in play here or was the mere scent of the dead elk enough to overwhelm any fear of man and she just charged in.

I live in NW Wyoming on the Wyoming/Montana border. The bears need to know they being hunted and they need to be controlled. My hunt with grizzly problems a few years ago was unreal. Relentless problems for 3 straight days up in the Greybull drainage up past Meeteesee...

00 buck in the side or front of the head to divert so you can use your lethal weapon. No need to be dead accurate and will turn even polar bear. Then you have the time to make a good shot.

Sucks poor wife and kids -

Don't know If id be able to shoot with a shotgun and then change guns for followup. that sure sounds good.

GoFundMe link is here:

https://www.gofundme.com/mark-uptain

I live in Alaska and have had 2 brown bear encounters this year. One of which I killed at close range in defense of life and property (338 Win Mag). There have been a few maulings this year in Alaska and the victims weren't carrying bear spray or firearms. If you're going into bear country, especially big bear country, be prepared. This story breaks my heart and I pray for the guide's family.

Sad too hear of his death and having a family.

When you carry a gun in your pack it can't help you when you need it

So sad to hear of the loss, bears need to fear humans and when not hunted they have no fear. To go into griz country and not have a defensive weapon is just plain wrong, to have a weapon and not have it readily accessible is tragic. When I go into wild country I always have a weapon on my hip, and loaded with solids, black bear attacks are rare but do happen, it's easy for us to forget that we are only the top of the food chain when armed.

I have been reading the historical accounts of the Lewis and Clark expedition. They report shooting Griz with large bore rifles and muskets some 8 to 12 times before the animal expires. Most times shooting clean through the Animals "Lights". I believe that is what they called lungs. I would not want to face a charging Griz with just a pistol.

I believe the most important thing that has not been mentioned is mental preparedness. If a pistol or other firearm is part of your survival equipment you should be thoroughly familiar and proficient with it and have it on or very near your person and you be prepared to use it. If your going into grizzly country you must accept the possibility of an attack and be mentally prepared to respond to it. Of course you still my end up dead but at least you have a fighting chance.

Hip

Hip, I think another thing in this case with an animal down overnight in bear country would be to have one guy standing guard with weapon drawn while the other worked the carcass. The sow and cub may have been zeroing in on that scent from a very long way away without the hunters realizing it.

I suspect the guide realized the site could be a powder keg with so much time passing before they found the animal. Kind of surprised they weren't better prepared for this by taking a long gun out with them in the morning. Seems the odds of a bear claiming the kill before they got there were quite good.

“I would not want to face a charging Griz with just a pistol.”

Nor would anyone with any clue as to what he was getting into! But I gotta say - it beats the snot out of a rolled-up newspaper...

I don’t understand the apparent lack of preparedness for a bear encounter either. Unless Griz are not generally believed to be in that area, I’d go out with the mindset of preparing for When, not If.

I guess MedicineMan is a relative of the client, so maybe we’ll get his side of the story...

It is unfortunate what happened, but ... This may be informative to some hunters that are in the grizzly's country

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbTM6Ef47QA&t=5s

So he threw the gun to the guide and ran. Interesting strategy.

I will not speculate on this event, it is tragic.

When in bear country I always pack a rifle, or stay out in the first place. From my Alaska and Canadian experiences, each and every hunter should pack their own sufficient rifles, not handguns. Never a guarantee, but ups the odds. Handguns are better than nothing, but that is about it.

jp, right or wrong from an ethical or moral standpoint, but he did survive the attack, which may have been his "strategy". Kinda' proves the old joke about being able to run faster than your hunting partner...

Carrying a rifle or shotgun while undoubtedly more powerful is not always as practical for a bowhunter as a powerful caliber handgun would be. It's right there on your side at all times. It more that better than nothing and has saved peoples lives. Check out this link: https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5RM70EQcs Hip

So, MObreaks -

What do you do when you are legally prohibited from carrying a rifle (as is typically the case while (Bowhunting?)

I suppose my .45/70 with some souped-up penetrator loads would be my best bet (given the inventory at hand), but the thing sure would be in the way if I were trying to gut an Elk...

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5RM70EQcs

I've only lived and hunted and fished in Alaska for about 50 years now, but I've studied this stuff fairly closely. I usually carry a Ruger Super Blackhawk stoked with heavy Buffalo Bore rounds in a Diamond D Chest holster rig. But If I have a moose or caribou on the ground overnight I'll be armed with a heavy caliber rifle upon my return if I have the opportunity. My choice is the Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 caliber, again stoked with heavy Buffalo Bore loads and hard cast bullets.

I too prefer the Marlin Guide gun, .45-70. Carried it on many a bowhunt.

And I agree, pistols are better than nothing.

OCR - can't think of one jurisdiction where you can kill the bear to get your kill back. If a bear gets there first its too bad for you unless you can scare it away like the guys in the video posted above claim to have done.

We carried 45-70 guide gun and had .44 mag pistols on our person on the two AK moose hunts I did. No close encounters so no need to use them, thankfully. Partner is resident AK and bought griz tag to avoid defense of life and property proceedings if we ended up in that situation and again thankfully we didn't...

Turns out I am a pretty good shot with my Henry 45-70 with open sights, but the horrendous noise is about enough to scare anything away. If a bear was chewing on me, I am pretty sure that I would put more faith in the spray than someone else's accuracy with a 45-70. In the past up in the Boundary Waters, there was a problem with people shooting bears with pistols that were not attacking anyone or anything. I was told that they shot the bears in the guts so they could run off and die deep in the woods. Grizzlies are a different creature, but the question I wonder about is when to shoot and when to watch?

My buddy, who has been chased by grizzlies in BC, always told me that a 44 mag for griz would be like defending against Mike Tyson with a 32 acp - woefully inadequate, but better than nothing.

Well a 500 S&W will certainly do the job on a big bear, as long as you can do your part, and that's hitting the vitals.

Wonder what a 500 Nitro Express would do? Saw that gun drop several big cape buffs.

Story here, more info

https://buckrail.com/injured-hunting-client-says-guide-saved-his- life-services-for-uptain-wednesday/

https://buckrail.com/game-fish-we-got-the-right-bears-one-was- sprayed-more-details-of-the-encounter/

https://buckrail.com/death-of-mark-uptain-by-grizzly-what-we-now- know/

And so they found a used canister of bear spray on the scene, and found pepper spray on the sow.

So the guide had spray close at hand and it did him no good; apparently enough to bail out the client. Makes Ron’s solution look pretty good...

Read the last link. Sort of confusing. The hunter was grabbed by a foot and swung around, but it reads like he was still horseback. Rode his horse to the top of the hill and phoned out. Must have not started to field dress the elk?

I had that same question. I would imagine a grizzly charge on horseback for someone from Florida might be a pretty good wreck.

Prayers to the family, not a pleasant thing to go through for sure.

As far as all the advice? some of you have experienced what its like to have a bear charge you...most have not.

Some of you may remember a few years back when I posted about being charged by a sow with a cub on an evening bowhunt. Luckily she was bluffing and never got closer than 10' both times she came at me.

the thing that impressed me most is how fast it happens.

I'd say 75% (or even higher) of the people that carry, probably cannot accurately shoot during a stressful life or death situation.

Because of that I'd say bear spray is probably the best defense for most, simply because it throws a wide cloud. True the momentum of the charge can or could carry them through the cloud, but statistics show it does work.

Don't kid yourself, unless you shoot a lot and have nerves of steel and are able to think and react quickly, a gun might not be your best option.

a shotgun at close range, meaning feet away is pretty darn impressive as well.

Not going to speculate on the incident since I wasn't there. I've spent enough time in bear country that I think, "that could have been me."I did find all the comments about large caliber rifles and shotguns interesting. Last time I checked, bow hunting and fishing require two hands. Where are you carrying that shotgun or rifle? Is it slung over your shoulder or up against a tree? Either way, to quote my dad, "worthless as tits on a boar."

We keep a longarm around camp, but out and about it's pepper spray and/or sidearms. In addition, with any of those large caliber rifles and handguns, if you aren't doing regular practice with it and can control it, again they aren't worth spit to you when the chips are down. I make a point of doing drills prior to trips, and I should probably do more than I do. I don't blame the bear, we're on his/her turf; however, I don't intend to just roll over and die either.

So sad. I pray that all involved are strengthened. Prayers sent. George

I agree that a shotgun with bock shot might work

I would think the pistol would be really handy at the point of contact if it gets to that point. I agree that trying to hit one in the heat of the moment from a distance would be hard and the spray or shotgun would be better. But, if I were wrestling around with one, I would sure as hell be firing rounds into the thing if I had a pistol and could hold it.

So sad, but always a possibility in bear country. If I hunted in grizzly terrain Id carry a glock 10MM with corbon ammo.

But as stated it is very hard hitting a target in a stressful situation. And I cant think of a more stressful situation

I’ve asked in a couple of places whether a semi-auto would even fire if you had it stuffed into the bear’s ribs, but haven’t gotten any feedback.

I’m leaning toward a Charter Bulldog stuffed with loads hot enough to render it inoperable after the 5th round.

Sad story

I agree with you Sir Mis......Glock Model 40 (10mm with 6” barrel)

12gauge buck is nearly 100% effective at 10yards on grizzly/brown bears. I know this because a friend shot one every year from his cabin to his meat house, you guessed it 30 feet! HE USED A Double and gave those bears two quick shots.

Was that head-on, or broadside?

But really, placement being as critical as it is... Unless you’re being charged, it’d be easy enough to make a solid shot with almost anything, but an inbound target would be a real Deal...

I had a charter bulldog for awhile but I couldn't began to shoot with any confidence six to eight steps away. Big bullet's are good just be sure the gun works for you. A bulldog is a belly gun just may want to start sooner.

I agree with the buckshot. It is my self defense gun

I’m not aware of how many of you have heard this already or not so I apologize if I’m repeating. The Wyoming Game and Fish Dept trapped and killed the two grizzlies that they believed were responsible for the attack on hunter and guide. Lance

Yep - found pepper spray residue on the sow and an empty spray can on the scene.

I hear you about the belly-gun, Tommy; the thought process there is that it would be easy enough to carry that it wouldn’t be in camp when I needed it.

It’d be interesting to know what level of accuracy you were after... makes me wonder how big a target a bear’s melon presents. I’d think a large blackie might have a 10-ring about the size of a CD. Which ain’t big.

Shooting at a black bears head isn't a good thing. I imagine a grizzly is the same. Bullets will just ricochet and maybe knock one out for a bit. Well trained police and others, well trained, have a hit rate of about 18% in stressful situations. Hitting in a "right place " on a bear that can run 30 mph with a sidearm is probably not going to happen, head on, with most anyone. I'm more interested in whether they both were still horseback. That would put a different spin on things. The hunter said they were in thick timber and the bear was just suddenly there. Anyone have more info on that?

“Shooting at a black bears head isn't a good thing.“

I’ll take your word for it! But it’s pretty close to center mass, no?

One of the guys who sells high-test loads says that blackies don’t require a great deal of persuasion, but if I ever had to shoot at one, it’d be good to know what I was aiming for....

So it is unwise to go into bear country unarmed, but bear spray didn't work in this instance and a pistol wouldn't ever work. Got it. This is a sad story, but is always a possibility in grizzly country. All I can do is hope the family will be ok.

Guide had a Glock 10mm but it was in his pack. Conflicting stories on whether the hunter was on horseback. I doubt any horse would stick around if a grizzly pulled its rider off. A Charter Bulldog might blow up on the first shot with hot loads. Bullets may or may not bounce off of a bears head, depends on the cartridge. Buckshot might work or it might not. In grizzly country one guy should be tending to the elk while the other has a heavy rifle ready to go.

Is there actual evidence that the spray got to the bear or if was even used? Having, using and hitting are three different things.

Spray canister was discharged and spray was found on the sow. Probably a big difference in hitting the bear with spray in the face or on the side.

My feeling? If I were in Grizzly country I would probably be bowhunting and not wanting to carry a shotgun or a rifle plus the bow. I've carried a pistol out there, but not all the time. If I were to hunt out there again, it would be one holster of pepper spray and another with a 44 mountain pistol. If your going to start shooting at a bear when charging and out 20 yards or so with a pistol, good luck. But, like I said before, I would rather have that pistol than a can of pepper spray if that thing is on me. It would be the pepper spray first, then I would be pulling on that pistol to get ready.

GF, one coming straight at you, the chest is center mass. Think about the search to find a sidearm that would stop a human in his tracks and then think about a 500/700 pound bear in full charge. You are probably going to bleed some. About the only place that's positive on a black bears head is the earholes, nostrils, and eyes. Alright for a treed bear or a close unaware one, but not likely under stress. Sad story, and none of us know what happened there.

Larry, one single thing it appears to be kind of obvious: they were not prepared to encounter a bear even when the bleeding Elk sat in the woods for one full night. A very cruel lesson.

I tried spot and stalk on a bear in Wisconsin, crazy I know, but the first thing that impressed me was how fast he was, near instant full speed. I have been false charged by black bears on canoe trips, one came from out of no where. I did not even time to stick out the canoe paddle that I had in my hand. Before passing any judgements on the this grizzly attack, it sounds like this may have been one of those things where they looked around and saw no immediate danger and then bear came from a position that their sight line was blocked until it was too late. We cannot tell. I said it before, Bear Assault canisters are too clumsy for fast one hand firing and the range is considerably reduced when shooting into the wind. When I was dragging my old butt around high elevations a couple of years ago, I talked to a woman hiker that had a grizzly ghosting her. She had time and a convenient breeze and floated two sprays towards the bear, when the wind was right and it worked. When she saw the bear take off, she came to harsh reality of how dangerous they can be. I was armed with my camera and my natural charm, knowing that there was an agitated grizzly on the slope made the hike back to my car a lot longer than I wanted it to be.

Small world. Guess the guide lived two houses down from my aunt. Sounds like they were close and she had good things to say about him.

When I was getting ready for Alaska back in the '80's I bought a Whitworth in .375 h&H, Had the barrel cut down and had it Magna Ported. That was on the advice of an old Alaska resident. I was inconvenient at time, But it sure was reassuring.

Prayers for the family.

Another example of how small a world it is. I just found out today that my company's managing principal is directly affected by this tragedy. His kids were/are home schooled (via internet I think) by the guides wife. My prayers have been sent.

Everything I've seen says that Bear spray was activated, and a pistol was at hand, but the guide still lost his life. I guess sometimes fate is just against us.

We don't know what the actual injuries to the guide were. Given the power and ferocity of an adult grizzly though we can only hope his passing was swift.

“I guess sometimes fate is just against us.“

Nope. One thing I’ve learned from my wife's dad & brothers - all 3 accomplished Naval Aviators - the procedural manuals are all written in blood. Every mishap is a learning opportunity, and they’re never happy until they figure out what the pilot could have done that might have brought about a survivable outcome.

In this case... The client’s story is that the guide (Uptain) was last seen on his feet, “fighting” the bear, and AFTER the bear had let go of the guide, attacked the client, and returned its attention to Uptain.

The investigators later determined that Uptain had been able to move uphill and away from the Elk under his own power before being overtaken a final time. It’s not much of a comfort, but they did say that the fatal injuries would have been instantaneously fatal.

Anyway, what all of that says to me is that Uptain had a fighting chance at at least one point in the ordeal. He was able to use the spray and exhausted his supply without the desired effect. Maybe that’s what bought him the time to move away from the carcass? I’m pretty sure that I read where Investigators said they could see, smell and feel the spray on and around the sow’s head. So it arguably did work... if only temporarily.

So it wasn’t “fate” that determined that Uptain’s Glock was not on his belt; it was a tragic miscalculation based on (apparently) the assumption that sprayed bears don’t come back.

Brutal reminder that a gun in your pack is like an unbuckled seat belt or a helmet strapped to the saddle-bag.

Lots of talk about "aiming" at certain parts of a charging bear. Well, like in a gunfight, there isn't a whole lot of aiming going on. Mostly it's point and shoot. But shooting at a charging bear is going to be a lot like wingshooting. You don't shoot at the bird/bear where it was; you don't even shoot at the bird/bear where it is; instead, you shoot at where the bird/bear will be. Bears are fast moving. Very fast moving.

Stay smart in bear country. Expect the unexpected. Be safe, everyone.

Usually not a lot of lead required on a straight going-away or in-bound target, so long as it’s pretty close to eye-level. Not sure I’d have the cojones to drop into a kneeling position, though in principle it could make it an easier shot to pull off.....

Something Larry said has made me think about this.... Most likely, if a bear comes at you in earnest, you ARE going to bleed some. Maybe accepting that up front is what gives some folks time to make that first shot count?

I guess that’s why some pistols are set up for a lanyard, so there’s a chance you can get it back after you’ve been knocked flat on your back...

I am reluctant to offer any comment, but one clearly established fact in the episode under analysis is that they were going back into the bush to retrieve an elk shot the day before. Even in the most suburban hunting areas of the east, leaving a deer overnight involves an assumption that coyotes will find it first and there may not be much left when and if the hunter does find it. If you're hunting antlers, that's not so much of an issue. I have no personal experience with close encounters with grizzlies, but plenty with black bears and a consistent theme is that once they find a big food source, they are not going to give it up willingly. Because their sense of smell is so keen, they are going to find a dead animal in their territory if given the entire night...they dont need lanterns or flashlights. I dont shoot deer in the evenings anymore. I just don't see a reason to give the predators a 12 hour head start. If I had traveled thousands of miles and paid thousands of dollars, I would probably want to get in as much hunting time as I could. But if a friend or family member of client shot an elk that was left overnight in grizzly country, you can bet we'd be packing and somebody would be standing lookout with a 12 gauge pump when we went looking for that elk the next day.

Just an update that may answer a few more questions from the Jackson Hole News and Guide:

JACKSON — The grizzly bear that caused tragedy high in the Teton Wilderness never let up from a full-bore charge before hitting the Jackson Hole outfitter she fatally mauled.

When the approximately 250-pound sow bruin first came into view, pounding downhill out of a clearing, Mark Uptain was removing the head of a four-by-four bull elk for his client, Corey Chubon.

It was Friday afternoon, and the elk’s four quarters had been removed without any sign of bears. Chubon had killed the elk with an arrow the day before, but the hunters didn’t find the carcass until Friday. Even so, the hunters saw no sign grizzlies had touched it.

The sow grizzly, in other words, was not coming back to claim her meal. Her 1 1/2-year- old male cub was nearby, but ultimately he was watching from the outskirts and wasn’t being threatened. Nevertheless, she was not bluffing.

“It just came on a full run,” said Brad Hovinga, who supervises the Wyoming Game and Fish Department’s Jackson Region. “There was no hesitation.”

Even for grizzlies, which are inherently protective and aggressive animals, this is unusual behavior.

“A female with a yearling attacking in this manner, I’ve never dealt with that,” said Dan Thompson, Game and Fish’s large carnivore chief.

The now-dead grizzly, around 10 years old, was in good shape, with plenty of fat and nothing outwardly wrong.

Chubon, who did not respond to repeated requests for interviews, provided the above account to Wyoming Game and Fish investigators. The Florida man, who was on a guided Martin Outfitters bow hunt with his father, relayed his recollection to Game and Fish at length on several occasions.

As the bear first hit Uptain, who carried bear spray in a hip-slung holster, Chubon went for a Glock that his guide had left with their gear a few yards uphill. For some reason, he could not get the handgun to fire. When the female grizzly diverted her attention away from Uptain and toward the Floridian, he tossed the pistol to his guide. Evidently, it didn’t make it to Uptain, who was a lifelong elk hunter, small-business owner and family man.

Within moments, the bear turned back toward Uptain. Chubon, whose leg, chest and arms were lacerated by the bruin, ran for his life. His last view of Uptain, which he relayed to investigators, was of the guide on his feet trying to fight off the sow.

In an interview with the Orlando, Florida TV station WKMG, he described Uptain as his hero.

“I’m just extremely blessed and fortunate to have made it out of this situation alive,” Chubon told WKMG.

Bolting from the chaos, Chubon huffed it uphill to the duo’s horses, mounted one and rode uphill to a ridgeline near the crest of 10,258-foot-high Terrace Mountain in the Bridger-Teton National Forest. Amazingly, he caught a signal to phone authorities, who flew in to rescue him. Teton County Undersheriff Matt Carr, who was among the first responders, said the call out was a feat in itself.

“I’m not quite sure how he did that, because there’s no cell service out there at all,” Carr said. “That’s something we could not duplicate when we were there on the scene.”

Using the description from Chubon, searchers in a helicopter were able to locate the elk carcass that caused conflict around 7 p.m. Friday. There was less than an hour of daylight left, and the call was made to suspend the search until sunup Saturday.

“We ran out of flight time,” Carr said. “Helicopter restrictions don’t allow us to fly past a hard-and-fast time. And by that point, we couldn’t get ground teams in. The risk to the rescuers was far too great at that moment.”

It will never be known exactly what unfolded between the grizzlies and Uptain after Chubon left the scene.

When Carr and Game and Fish wardens Jon Stephens and Kyle Lash arrived at the quartered elk early Saturday morning to continue the search, they initially assumed that a drag mark heading downhill was from Uptain. Later, investigators discovered this was the slick left from the elk’s gut pile.

“It was confusing, because there was blood and struggle and debris from the elk dying,” Hovinga said. “There was a blood trail from the wounded elk coming in. On the scene, it was difficult to determine whose blood was whose.”

The gut pile drag mark heading downhill drew searchers attention away from where Uptain had died 50 yards uphill from the elk carcass, in a grove of timber. The nature of the 37-year-old’s fatal injuries and lack of a drag trail uphill suggest that he was able to walk after the initial attack, about 50 yards, but ultimately was killed by the grizzlies near where he was found.

“From the nature of his injuries, his death was pretty instantaneous,” Teton County Coroner Brent Blue said. “His fatal injuries were fatal instantly. He wasn’t going to be walking after the fatal injury.”

Bites to Uptain’s head likely ended his life, Blue said. Although there was massive trauma, his body was intact and showed no signs of having been fed upon.

At some point during the struggle, Uptain was able to douse the adult sow with bear spray, which has a high probability of thwarting an attack.

“When we were looking at the [adult female bear’s] head,” Hovinga said, “we could smell it, and we could feel it.”

Hovinga was quick to point out that bear spray was not put to use at the time of the initial attack — perhaps because there wasn’t time.

“We feel that he deployed that bear spray sometime after the initial attack, but before he succumbed to his injuries,” he said. “A lot of people have said, ‘Well, he sprayed the bear, and it didn’t do any good.’ We can’t say that. We can’t say that bear spray wasn’t completely effective.”

The discharged canister was near where he died, not at the elk carcass downhill. The thrown firearm was found uphill of the bull elk’s scattered remains, but downhill and distanced from Uptain’s body.

After locating Uptain around 1:15 p.m. Saturday, Teton County Search and Rescue, Game and Fish and citizen search teams that grew to about 30 people flew out and rode out on horseback.

Game and Fish large carnivore biologists set out three leghold snares concealed in cubbies in an attempt to livetrap one or both of the grizzlies in the overnight hours. Aboard an airship that clattered overhead Sunday morning, they could not see if it worked. But after unloading from the chopper late Sunday morning, Thompson, Lash, Stephens and Game and Fish colleagues Brian Baker and Mike Boyce could make out bawls that told them they had captured the cub.

“Based on the vocalizations and the different tones, we knew we had a younger bear,” Thompson said.

The worst-case scenario was trapping the cub, with mom running free. That’s what happened. The quintet of biologists and wardens, four of whom were armed, chose a path in the relative open in the effort to gain a vantage point of the trap. The sow heard them coming.

“She appeared on a full charge,” Thompson said. “When she visualized five of us standing there, she paused for a second. We had guns up. There was a question, ‘Do we take her?’ I said take her.”

A barrage of gunfire ended the life of the grizzly that killed Mark Uptain. Her stomach was “full of elk meat,” one indication that told the Game and Fish folks that they had killed the right bear. Paws with pads and claws that matched tracks left at the scene the day before further corroborated the connection, and DNA evidence has been sent to a Laramie lab to cement that the right bears were killed.

The cub, about a 150-pound animal, was sedated before Thompson made the call to kill the sow’s dependent as well. His primary reasoning was that Uptain’s injuries suggested the cub was not a passive bystander.

“That yearling was involved in the attack,” Thompson said, “and was a contributing factor to his fatality.”

Asked if there were lessons to be learned from the fatal attack, Thompson said there was no “overt” wrongdoing or decisions made that belie best practices for hunting in grizzly country. Game and Fish’s large carnivore chief also stood behind his decision-making.

“I’m 100 percent confident that we removed the target individuals, and I’m also 100 percent confident that was the right thing to do,” Thompson said. “She was teaching an offspring that killing humans is a potential way to get food. We’ve had 10 other human injuries [from grizzlies] in the past couple years, and we haven’t attempted captures in those situations because of our investigations and the behavior of the bear.

“This was completely different, dangerous behavior,” he said. “It’s not something we want out there on the landscape.”

Thanks. Makes more sense now.

Yeah, it does fill in the dots a bit. And Larry, I've been thinking more about what you said about 00 buck and "swatting the bear" with it. I think I read past what you meant and was focused on killing the charging bear, not stopping the charge or turning it, which is basically what bear spray does.

You've got a ton more experience with black bears than I have, but your comment got me reading and researching what several others conclude or at least believe in. Quite a bit of that from those who have shot charging big bears comes down to the quickness and familiarity of their weapons, more than calibers and actions.

And many note that even the big bore rifle and slug guns don't result in instantaneous death or stopped charges because of shot placement unless in the central nervous system, which becomes a very small target in the heat of things. Hence maybe 00 buck to "turn" a bear has more to it than I originally thought, and then maybe a good slug to follow.

I appreciated the input from many of those above. This debate will go on. I'm not certain there is one good or perfect answer.

Elderly OCR - Don't sound like it... Posted over on Bowsite, there was an update on gofundme from his brother in law. The gun was empty.

https://www.gofundme.com/mark-uptain?viewupdates=1&rcid=r01- 153775836212- 7f2384f00e954b77&utm_source=internal&utm_medium=email&utm_conten t=cta_button&utm_campaign=upd_n

My wife and I have contributed to the go fund me. You should to. Leaving behind 5 children........ So very sad. RK

Yeah... sounds like the client managed to drop the magazine and then throw the guide a paperweight shaped jus like a Glock. It’s a shame that Uptain didn’t get the spray into action when he drew the sow off of his client.

No question at all that those two bears had to be removed from the pool, though...

Not sure why these stories get such a grip on me... guess it’s just too upsetting to hear of the needless death of a good man... if it could happen to him...

A Glock has no external safety except a lever on the trigger. If a round is in the chamber all you need to do is squeeze the trigger. If the chamber wasn't hot then you would need to rack the slide to chamber a round. If the gun was in the pack it probably had a loaded clip with no round in the chamber. Someone not familiar with the weapon wouldn't know what to do.

It doesn't say what caliber the gun was but if it was a 10mm with a 15 round magazine it would have had a good chance of stopping the bear.

Why? Do you think that slapping the snout of the charging grizzly will make her change her mind? What you think you will do is not all the time similar with what you will do. All the studies are talking about brain kicking in "survival mode" in this type of situation and the single way to do the right thing after (too many) generations you didn't need it, is to think and prepare in advance for this type of situation. The guy who escaped did exactly what "survival mode" told him to do: "you are the most important thing, get the hell out of here".

GF - Can't remember what article I read it but the guide used the whole can of bear spray,,, said the can was sprayed until empty...

Elderly OCR - "Where was the bow in all this mayhem?" Good question… Ya know after all articles, discussions and debates, never heard where was the bow in all this…

PS There is the rule of 10/80/10 rule of survival created by a psychologist: under life threatening situation just 10 percent of people control their fears and act rationally. 80 percent find themselves stunned and relatively unprepared to respond. The last 10 percent become hysterical unable to cope with the situation at hand.

Bone - YES, the guide used up the whole can, but maybe - before he’d been mauled much - the spray could’ve bought him enough time to locate the gun and mag and get himself in business.

Where was the bow? Probably on the horse. Not much need for having it handy while you’re quartering out your bull. I’m still wondering how the client was able to catch up his horse and get into the saddle. You’d think the bear would have spooked them a bit.

My money is on a compound.

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