A Doe and two fawns walk in while your hunting, which do you shoot? Does anyone or will anyone purposely shoot a fawn? Or shoot a young deer that has just lost its spots? Curious about where people draw the line.

I get alot of shooting opportunities so I have the luxury of passing up if I want to,if they dont have spots I'll shoot the doe usually.

I will not take a shot at a doe with fawns in tow.

No does with fawns for me.

First year my son went hunting with a rifle he killed a doe with two fawns.One fawn would not leave the dead mother .I never let that happen again. Just plain wrong the way i see it.

There are bigger and better. No fawns. Don't need a deer that bad. Lone doe, no problem. Yearling in tow, take the doe. Fawn in tow, no go. I fill my doe tags selectively. Sometimes I take a yearling if its big enough. They eat pretty good.

Nope !! Wouldn't do it. Just wouldn't feel right.

Fawns that have lost thier spots are ready to venture on thier own, and when the rut hits the doe will chase them away. No use in taking a deer that small due to lack of meat, but the mom is fair game in my book.

I would not shoot the doe or the fawns.

Just a note, in my experience, every fresh doe that has milk (the two I have shot - only two for that reason, won't ever do it again) tastes like crap IMO. Real strong, lousy gamey taste. Especially a mule deer doe I shot once that I didn't know had a fawn in tow. It was the worst tasting deer I ever shot.

The best one to shoot is the one that stands still long enough.

I would shoot one of the little ones for a few reasons (unless they are really tiny) One: I am the only one that will eat it. Two: tender. Three: mamma can make another one. Four: (this is a big one for me) The younger deer have had less time to bio- accumulate the toxins that are in the herbicides, pesticides, and fungicides and the GMO beans they have been eating. I live in farm country, so the deer eat a lot of soybean plants.

I would likely draw the line at spots or tiny though.

Just watch and enjoy the show

Won't shoot one with spots.........with the hard winters we have in New York I will shoot a skipper, Mom can breed again and the fawn may not make the winter. Moving south shortly so winter kill will not play a part in the future for me.

I can relate and have a hard time shooting does with fawns. The thing that's funny in a couple weeks after you pass up those deer the gun hunters get their chance. I can tell you if they see three Doe there going to shoot the biggest one. The fawn you passed on a couple of weeks earlier has got some problems in the Pa. woods in December. I buy two, three and four Doe tags every year and haven't shot a Doe in the last five seasons.

I've been trying to kill a deer with a self bow and have had many chances for a little one but can't do it. When the rut starts as stated above the does run off the fawns. I've had them walk up to me within ten yards and it just doesn't seem fair to shoot one.

Never been hungry enough to be tempted. I also feel conversations like this fuel anti hunter resentment. >>>----> ken

No!

Please pass on those three.

Won't shoot Doe's with fawns. My son shot A small yearling. I would say it had just lost it's spots. There was another yearling with it. It wouldn't leave. I actually walked up pretty close to it and run it off. We've never shot one like that since. That's probably Been 20 years ago.

The doe would take a truck ride home If I wanted to, the fawn would always get a free pass. You have to consider where you live before you use a wide brush on a question like this.

Does don't run off fawns come breeding season here in the east. The family units will stay together...even the younger bucks. I've seen it plenty of times. The doe will birth the young in the spring on her own, but they will rejoin the family group. Once the bucks are old enough to breed, they go out on their own...usually at a year and one half old.

I've never had a need to kill a fawn. There are plenty of yearlings and older about to take home. You have to live with what you do and I suspect it's not a big deal to some folk.

yearling ok but not spots dr

yearling ok but not spots dr

Just now a doe and 2 fawns walked 30 yards behind my house. So No I wouldnt do it.

I am fortunate enough to have plenty of deer on our place, so I pass on does with little ones. If deer were scarce, and my freezer was empty.. would consider the doe if the fawns were free of spots, and they were not nursing.

Nope, no doe with fawns.

Hip

NO DOE WIYH FAWNS NOWAY

Even if the fawns are not nursing,they are still learning from mama. Fawns are pretty trusting & very curious,especially buck fawns. They need to learn where the food sources are and the dangers. I like venison but they always get a pass here. I don't kill & eat calves either. There are benafits to letting things grow up. >>>----> Ken

“The younger deer have had less time to bio- accumulate the toxins that are in the herbicides, pesticides, and fungicides and the GMO beans they have been eating.”

Don’t worry about the beans, man! The point of GMOs is that they reduce the chemical applications necessary to turn a profit on the crop. There’s just no credible evidence ANYWHERE suggesting that GMO crops have ever hurt ANYBODY.

I usually pass on fawns because it’s a lot of work for the amount of meat you get (though MAN can it be tasty!!). Does get a pass where the population is low, and they go first when the herd is overpopulated or you’ve got an antlerless-only tag. Then the doe is why you’re there. And if you have an antlerless tag in an area where winters are tough and the numbers are down, then you want to take the button. Improves the dam’s chances of making it through the winter.

We typically just shoot bucks as we do not have a pile of deer. However, if I get the opportunity to go on a management hunt then I find out what the goal is.

If they are trying to reduce deer #'s because there are too many today, I shoot the mature doe. The yearlings can survive on there own and now there is 1 less breeding doe in the area.

If they are trying to slow the overall growth, take the yearling as it will not be of breeding age for another year and that will slow production later on.

Where do I draw the line? Wherever it makes sense for the management strategies. That being said, the younger, the more tender!

Buttons are the same age as the doe fawns. They get run off in late September. I pass on the buttons and a good number of them survive just fine. The doe fawns have learned a lot from momma over the four months before bow season. Shoot which ever one you want. The others will be fine.

T4

With my failing health I shoot the smallest.

Hap

I have taken a lot of spots in the NJ early season for the Buck tag over the years.

Pa. no only mature does.

One time I had an eye stroke and wasn't seeing that great. I was in the tree in NJ. at my killing fields. Didn't have a doe yet for the buck tag and in walks 2 deer and yes spoted. Nearly gone. I shot the one he runs off down his trail. Ok the other deer still there I nock another arrow and shoot him also. I got down out of tree and went over to 2nd deer. Oh no a button buck. I should have studied both a little longer but the fever of needing the buck tag that was already getting old I need to have. I am pissed at myself. Ok left him there he's right by stand 50 yards and went to get the other. He went about 75 yards he was right there on trail followed blood right to him. I got up to him and oh no another button buck. Darn it I took out 2 of next years or 3rd years bucks so ow I am really pissed at myself. I shot both brothers the twins. Oh no what did I do? I cursed the state for having earn a buck in place.

Farmer was glad he wanted every deer shot. I arrowed 18 deer from this stand in 1 year that's why I called it the killing fields. I had it heavily baited always and had lots of deer coming and going. I spent a lot of money on bait to maintain that stand for what it was But yes 2 spots taken and both buttons and was sick over it. Farmer and NJ state loved it but me and club didn't.

I hunted that stand for several years then super Sandy took my tree down and I didn't go back there because things changed in the bush.

Spots are better eating but not much on them other than about 5 meal each after I cut up and trimmed out or maybe about 8 meals for 1 person myself.LOL

Best eating than some ragged old big doe.LOL

I also pass on the buttons but as I said I wasn't seeing that great. Prob. shouldn't been in stand but sick or not or afflicted I usually made it out into the bush. That's what killers do they hunt them up small or big they all go down in the history books.

Shot a button a few years ago with no momma to be found.

About 10 or 12years ago, I was heading for my van about 10 a.m. I was about 50 yards from my van and a doe wheezing and fretting came up between me and my van. she ignored me and looked back. Her two fawns were along the gravel road. A neighbor woman with her two dogs, a lab and a whatever, were getting close to the fawns. The doe ran part way down the slope snorting for all she was worth and the fawns stayed put. Then she ran all of the way to the fawns, kicked one with the woman and the dogs with in 20 feet of the fawns. The doe ran back towards me and stopped about 10 or 15 yards from, the fawns finally came running to her. she checked them both out walked past me heading for the trees, still making wheezing stress sounds. I asked the woman how she kept her lab from chasing the fawns. She relied, that when I brought their dog home and told them how it would sit by me, chase off a deer and then come and sit down by me again, She said they really appreciated that I did not shoot their dog. Her husband decided that the hunter his prize pheasant dog helped when deer hunting would probably shoot it's he put a shock collar on it and took it out to find deer. When it took off after a deer he hit with pull power. Now the dog is scared of deer. Anyway, that bond that the mama had for her fawns has prevented me from having the heart to shoot another doe with fawns during the regular archery season. Yearling does became my targets for my control tags that i got from that farmer. I think later when deer are grouping up after the rut, maybe that bond and dependence is not as strong, but one extremely cold evening in November heading home in the dark, a tiny fawn with spots and a small doe walked across a blacktop intersection in front of me. They were not doing well, how could a doe have such a young fawn that late? It is common to see small fawns and large fawns in October and November, but that was the first time I saw one with spots. On the other hand, go from Orange City to Lemars down Highway 60 to goto Bob's for a coney and you will see lots of young deer wasted along the highway, as hunters, we maybe do not need to fret as much as we do over shooting young deer and does, considering no one gives a damn about vehicle killed deer, but they get all bent out of shape when a bowhunter shoots a doe or small deer. Damn, i think I finally got my voice tipper to behalf it serve.

I've seen plenty of button bucks by themselves late Oct early Nov so the notion that does back east don't run off fawns for breeding season is not accurate where I hunt. I agree with PD... it all depends on the circumstances.

A year and half old doe, yearling, usually does not have any fawns, but they taste fantastic, every bite is a trophy.

If you don't know the difference between a yearling (age even in name) and a fawn, just Google it. I can't imagine anyone here that doesn't know that.

I pass on fawns and does with fawns. I generally don't look at shooting any doe until the late season, and then I'm going by size. My deer aren't very big in general, so for does, I'm holding out for one that is at least 85lbs.

I've never liked the math in the whole "if you shoot a doe, you've killed three deer". If that is your thinking, then you shouldn't shoot any bucks, because of all of doe's that won't get bred and have fawns. Shoot a buck and you killed a buck and 6 - 10 fawns. Who knows how many does that buck would have bred...

I agree that does do not "run off" fawns during the rut, but I have seen first-hand many times the doe leave the fawns and go to parts unknown during the height of the rut and in a couple weeks, suddenly be back in her core area and have the fawns back with her. I've watched that happen many years on my farm. I've seen the fawns wandering around alone or with another fawn in the regular haunts they were regularly seen with mama all summer/fall and no mama with them, then after a week or two, mama is suddenly back with them.

Here is a observation over the years. When I see a nice Buck chasing a Doe I never see a fawn with the Doe being chased. I'm sure after the Doe gets bred she reconnects with her fawns. I'm thinking the little ones I'm seeing are alone for the first time or sure act like it. Last year I had a little one come within 5 yards of me. I started talking to her, "Where's your Mama." She took off ran a complete circle around me and stood where she started from. All I could do was tell her to get going before she got herself in trouble.lol

I would not shoot any of the three with my selfbow. I see nothing wrong with it, I simply bowhunt for different reasons I guess. Not really sure why I kill animals, but I do.

It's a 24 hour heat where the fawns are alone, momma comes back a little ruffled ;)

I wouldn't shoot a fawn or a doe with fawns.

No, will not shoot doe with fawns. I will shoot a doe if i see her at least three times by herself.

Killing is killing, so what is the difference if you kill it now or in three months after it has grown a little?

So, Shawn, I'm reading that those 50 doe fawns you kill this year translate to 150 deer 2 years from now, is that what you are saying? I have to say, if you extrapolate those kinds of numbers from the future population, you can become the fortune teller of herd management, and glean admiration from every Fish and Game Department that manages big game. You can set harvest goals a year ahead of time and give mgrs a huge advantage over neighboring states. Sell alot of non resident,tags as,a,result. That is a mighty creative Wildlife management strategy, did you get your Masters in Future Deer Farmers of America? You are one Fart Smeller! ;^)

Not to be judgmental but I pass for no reason justba personal decision.

Would never think twice for another’s decision

In the past I would shoot any deer that wasn't spotted. Now I don't know if I would shoot anything if it doesn't have antlers. I guess when it walks into my wheelhouse I'll find out. I don't hunt in an area that has a tremendous amount of deer so opportunities don't come all that often. If you pass up a shot, there might not be another chance.

I couldn’t shoot a Doe with fawns.

When I was a young hunter, yes on the doe only. After I got a few under my belt,not anymore. Someone else taking them, no judgement from me.

This all comes down to a personal decision, period. For someone to infer that they would hunt with some and not others because they would shoot a doe with fawns is ridiculous. Let's not start throwing around the moral or ethical card on how others hunt. What if a guy has limited hunt time, what I'd F he's only able to hunt a few days a year? Any deer walking within his range I'm sure is going to get shot so they can have some meat in the freezer. Is he not worthy of sharing a hunting camp?

I wouldn't shoot a fawn with spots but by mid October they are old enough to take care of themselves so I would shoot them or the big one if I wanted to fill a tag. If you kill a deer for meat it really doesn't matter if its a fawn or an ancient stud buck as far as morals go. I have far more respect for the man who shoots a fawn and is interested in the meat than someone who shoots a big buck and is glad to give the meat away. I would say hunting for meat is the purist motive a hunter can have.

When you guys are done measuring, remember 6" is average ;^)

A well meaning gentleman posted above that there is no evidence anywhere that GMOs have ever hurt anyone. That is not true PM me if you want the evidence. I can fix you up. I do not wish to hijack this thread, but I have to tell the truth. Evidence for GMO destruction of human health is in many places. Now, back to the thread. Sorry, I just had to make a stand.

I have no problem shooting does with fawns. One, I love the meat, two, it's good wildlife management. If the fawns happen to be button bucks they are less likely to disperse the next spring. They most likley will stay in the core area they were raised. This info is per Gary Alt. Former deer biologist from PA.

nomo, I agree, Iowa deer are not organic. Last year I had a couple of times when many deer were on me at the same time. I attempted to draw, but the situation would have been questionable due to the positions of the other deer near the targeted deer. I called it practice draws and a bunch of people jumped on me for it. The last time it happened I drew twice at a large doe and the other deer changed positions enough for me to stop my draw and question the situation, a good time to have the self control to let down and simply enjoy their company. Hind sight has me thinking that i should have shot the forky that was in the clear earlier. A father and his teenage son had a situation last year where the son shot a button buck, the father chided him for not seeing that it was a fawn. I told him that he would change his opinion about that button buck with his first bite. Then I told the son, "Take good care of the meat and don't let him have any of it."

I wouldn't shoot.

The first deer I killed with a bow was a button buck. I was very proud of it. I've killed two more in the last 30 yrs with the flintlock unintentionally. I was gad to have the deer but would have rather shot a doe. I don't encourage people to shoot fawns but if that is what makes you happy then more power to you.

If you are worried about your deer herd, the least impactful deer you can shoot is a button buck. And they taste great.

Welts also remember, what you kill you have to drag, so a yearling is certainly easier then a big boy or girl lol.

So what would a button Buck be.... a fawn.

Early in the season I am not shooting any of the three...at least not intentionally. While the fawns are big enough to survive on their own they are still very emotionally dependent on their mama. The fawns themselves don't have a lot of meat on them so I am going to give them a pass. I prefer to shoot a young doe (yearling or a little older) for meat. I have lots of deer where I hunt in southeast Iowa so I can be pretty picky and pass a lot of deer without worrying that it may be my only chance. In my younger days I would have shot mama without a second thought. Nowdays, I don't feel the urge so much that I have to kill stuff to validate myself as a hunter.

Yes it’s a fawn until it’s a year old, a yearling until it’s 2 years old.

Sure, ya just don't lead em so much! Sorry, had to!

If I passed on doe's with fawns in Tennessee I wouldn't shoot many doe's. If they are 1 1/2 old here they usually have fawns even if you don't see them. So yes unless the fawns with her are tiny [late born] I will shoot the doe unless my freezer is already full. Yearlings are 1 1/2 years old and usually have at least 1 fawn here. Pappy

Shawn, my point was 1 dead doe = 3 dead deer the next year (50 dead does (inc. doe fawns) = 150 dead deer the next year (or two)) = BS. That assessment holds no water. A doe has a finite number of eggs. You kill a doe that has the potential to produce that many offspring. Not that they ever will. Say you kill a buck (all of which produce millions of sperm), does that mean you just killed millions of deer potentially produced in the future? That kind of logic escapes me. Many many other factors to be considered. Three dead deer for every doe killed is nonsense. As for someone calling you a killer, your reading skills are as bad as mine. He wasn't talking about you.

Im confused, Shawn you said in your first post you would shoot all 3.

Ok, I guess with that kind of logic, I 'ate' ignorant. If you kill a doe that 'would have had' 2 or 3, but there are other does around, chances are that doe will still have '2 or 3' to fill in that niche. Every area has a certain carrying capacity, and it that area is approaching full carrying capacity, that will determine survivability of individuals and the overall herd size in general. Predation, climate, food availability all fctor in. More live does does not necessarily mean a greater population. More dead ones doesn't always mean a lower population. An area can only carry so many deer. If an area is not at carrying capacity, then letting ANY deer live will eventually lead to a full carrying capacity of a particular area, omitting excess predation or extreme deprimental weather factors. The population self compensates over time and reaches equilibrium and its carrying capacity. Over the span of one season to the next, the difference between taking a doe vs. a buck vs a fawn, means next to nothing. In that span of time one dead deer is one dead deer, not two or three. I choose to remain ignorant in your eyes. That would a compliment. Thank you.

Have to say I'd pass on all three. Survival mode, different deal.

Simple decision for me...I never, ever, ever shoot a doe or fawn.

I don't have to think about not shooting a doe with fawns, esp. with UNBORN zygote fawns. It's instinctive. Comes natural. Not a birth control advocate, Plannned Parenthood does not get my support. Maybe if I lived closer to Albany...

Coyotes, lions, ect...wouldn't think twice.. Natural predatory instinct right?

Doubtful the American Indians would have thought twice right? natural predatory instinct right? kill or starve right?

Shopping carts have manipulated some of our modern ethics I'd say.

Doe and fawns stay together long after they no longer need momma.

And just because its a lone doe, don't mean her young ones aren't around. I've shot lone doe that still had milk in her udder.

Most archery seasons do not start till Sept. By then fawns do not need mommas milk.

I pass on smaller doe or button buck usually because they don't produce as much meat as larger animals.

Now if archery season was in early or even mid summer then that's a whole different matter. There is a reason our state game laws begin hunting in fall usually.

I like to watch those young fawns as much as anyone, hate to see them lying along the road hit by a car ect...

But the truth is by hunting season they are ready to survive on their own if need be, and they usually wise up pretty quick once it begins.

Which one is on first base now? The fawn or the doe?

True, But who defines ethics? you? me? One guy is happy with a button buck, another wouldn't loose an arrow. One guy shoots ducks off the water, another guy won't.

One guy is a diehard flyfishing purist, next guy fishes with nightcrawlers.

And can you have a clear idea of what good ethics are without having good morals also?

Save the fawns but abort the children?.... Are knowledge and wisdom one in the same?

Lots of treehuggers claim its not ethical to kill animals....But live like they have no concept of right and wrong.

I personally do not shoot fawns, but they are legal game once hunting season starts. So where does the idea that shooting young deer is not ethical come from?

From a biological standpoint those fawns are perfectly capable of surviving.

I would not shoot any of the three.

I will not shoot a doe with fawns

Not unless did not have anything to eat.

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