LightPaw gave me this subject in a PM and I think it's a good one. May help some of our younger members in a preventative way. This will be a complicated subject for me to discuss since I'm 26.

We do know that in 1545 archers had skeletal damage. Were they self taught back then? I doubt that. I don't thing a soldier was given a sword and told to go kill the enemy. And I don't think they were just given a bow and arrow without some sort of instruction. Unlike I'm betting that more than 95% of us who I believe are self taught. The question is what were the archers on the MaryRose taught and was it any different than what coaches are coaching today.

The reason for that last statement is alignment. (See thread of a couple weeks ago called 'Alignment') My thoughts are if you have proper alignment which is synonymous with bone on bone contact, you won't have the same damage as if your shooting without it. AND the odds of you being self taught and having good alignment aren't too good.

Take Jake Kominski and Brady Ellison. They were probably coached in they're early teens. A little older than me at 29. What I wonder is what their X-rays will look like when they're 60? They started shooting with good alignment.

So what's the saying, 'the sins of the young are paid by the aged'. I guess it's not a saying it should be. I shot 68 pound at my then 30 inch draw for 20 years. When I started to get shoulder trouble I went to a chiropractor. She took an X-ray of me from the rear and we looked at it together. My spine when straight up from my tailbone to about where my shoulder started and then it took a half moon turn to the right and then back, straight up my neck. She said, “that's odd. What do you suppose caused that?” DUH!!!

What that did was pinch nerves in my shoulder/neck, making me thing it was a shoulder problem.

First off, if I would have had a coach for those 20 years, I wouldn't have been shooting 68 pounds (all the time). Second, the coach would have taught me proper alignment and I wouldn't have had my bow arm pushing against my spine and causing the twist. The string arm would have been pushing back to keep the spine straight.

I went to a physical therapist and she said that my back was the worse back she's seen in 20 years. “I could hide a football under your left shoulder blade.” I didn't know what that meant. You don't look at your back too often. I went home and looked into a mirror looking into a mirror so I could see my back. My right shoulder blade was about two inches from my spine. Left was about EIGHT!!! And my left shoulder blade was at a bad angle compared to the right.

I'm afraid this is getting to be too much about me and not enough about aging in general. I'd like some other Wallers to discuss ailments if they'd like to share. Then I'll come back and post some of my cures and preventative measures. Most from PT's and an archer chiropractor not named Wensel.

Bowmania

Todd, I'll be 73 in January, so I have a bit more years to consider than many young'uns. I've been shooting archery bows yearly, and quite a lot..especially in the early years..age 18 to 35. I've shot sixty-plus pound bows for about fifteen years, give or take a year. I still shoot regularly and without discomfort.

I don't know how to say how much archery has affected my skeletal makeup, and I doubt many can attribute much to just archery, unless they never did anything else. I have had some lower back issues over the years, but I've also been in two nasty car wrecks, played sports and was a kid growing up wild in the Appalachian Mountains. Bumps, whacks and bruises came from many venues and many activities.

I'm sure the old Celtic folks had many issues, but no car wrecks to mess them up. Couple that with the heavy bows they were required (soldiers) to use and that makes a difference also. Plus, Al Henderson wasn't around to help them out with form anomalies ;).

I think I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in and I think archery has helped with my good health more than any negative aspect of it. It's a good question though, but unless one never had any other abusive actitivy happen to their body, it's hard to narrow it down to just one or two things.

So, let me see if I got it right... the moral of the story is... don't begin drawing 68# @ 30" when you're six years old?

I'm beat up and in pain every day all day... and it has nothing whatsoever to do with archery. Preventative measures? Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

Ve get too soon olt, and too late schmart.

LOL. Agree Jeff.

Really no reason to think most of the folks back then weren't self taught. Had perhaps as much instruction as most of us today. Friends and family probably provided all the instruction they ever got, and, judging by a lot of the instruction from friends and family today, it probably wasn't all that good.

All that being said, I started shooting sticks when I was about six. Graduated to my first lemonwood self bow when I was about 10. Was hunting with a Bear Super mag or was it a Wing thunderbird when I was 14, and have been shooting a lot and hunting ever since then. I'm 72 now.

I also shot heavy (60-65#) bows for most of my shooting life, say 20 to 55. I now shoot closer to 50#. Have no injuries or malformations that I can attribute to archery. Badly dislocated my drawing arm shoulder in high school football, and it's been a bit loose ever since. It makes noise when I draw the bow, but doesn't hurt. Had something like tennis elbow ( forearm pain) on my bow arm about 20 years, but two weeks worth of exercise cured it, and it hasn't recurred. Neck muscles on the left side of meh neck are a bit larger than my right, but I attribute that to 4-5 years of manual labnor carrying heavy loads mostly on my left shoulder, while I was putting myself through school.

Long story short, can't say that archery has had any deleterious effects on my health. Probably just the opposite.

Jeff your right. I have been shoot in a stick and string since I was 8. Early on shot heavy,now shoot much lighter. Age is 75. Most of my aches and pains are the result of a misspent youth...Marines and law enforcement careers, not to mention sports and other wild activities. I have lower back problems and other infermaries but am still going. I will not stop shooting until they pry the bow from my cold dead hands. That said you are correct in advising the young pups out there to take care. God bless and good shooting for a long time to come. R Tom

Toxophilus pretty much describes the state of archery mid 16th century.

"" This will be a complicated subject for me to discuss since I'm 26. ""

"" I shot 68 pound at my then 30 inch draw for 20 years.""

Am I missing something here, it sounds like you were drawing a 68lb bow at 6yoa??

Been getting things broken and sprained since I started riding horses for work at around 6 years old. Archery keeps a lot of stuff working that would freeze up without constant movement. It has never did me any harm I'm aware of, and I'm 83. Ranching, on the other hand has caused me to have more collar bone fractures than I can remember, same thing for ribs and broken fingers and hands, along with shins, both long bones in both legs, arms, and some stuff related to internal bleeding for a few years. When I can't shoot a bow I use tension bands to do arm curls, weight lifts, lunges, etc. every day, because I'm still getting on a horse every day most weeks and still getting some stuff happening from doing that. For me it has been the cure, not the disease.

We start dying the day we're born.

I'm 2 weeks from 66, retired after a lifetime of tough, heavy work March 2, played hockey to 46, caught 70 to 80 games a year playing on a tournament fast-pitch travel team to 40, spent my years hunting from prairie pheasants to high country elk & mulies in addition to my home state whitetails.

Until about 15 years ago I shot recurves and Hill styles from 65 to 86lb. I'm now shooting 53lb and I'm fine with that.

My left knee was replaced 3 years ago, my right is nearing the same state, I've got arthritic shoulders and take a goodly amount of time to get loose every morning...basically "hurt from the hair down"...lol.

Archery and golf are my two remaining endeavors I can do, and do well. With those 53lb bows, I can shoot all day, and 36 holes in a day is still doable...albeit mainly with a cart. I love walking, but my right knee starts barking after 9 holes...I have to take it easy on Advil type meds due to ulcer possibilities.

What's my point to this diatribe? Life's too damn short to live in a bubble. I regret nothing from my life's ventures, other than being unable to do many of the things I loved. Getting older is hard on a fellow!

Could my shoulder issues have been lessened by bowing down years ago? I dunno...maybe. Stopping catching and goaltending around 35 might very well have prolonged the life of the manufacturer's original equipment. Maybe humping out of a 2600 foot Wyoming canyon with a pack frame loaded down with meat wasn't a good idea?

While I indeed envy the OP for his youth, I wouldn't swap any part of my life on this rock for anything.

Bowmania, this site should come with a warning, don't discuss getting old. I'm afraid your going to get some heated post but don't take it personal.

I can't blame Archery for all my ailments, open heart surgery sure didn't help or your normal getting banged up, but I do think I'd been better off shooting lighter bows for the last 50 or so years.

I’ve been at this bow and arrow thing for most of my life (I’m 68 now) and still have no problems physically related to archery. I’ve been shooting 50ish# bows for a long time, but have ventured into the 60# range a little while in my 50’s and early 60’s after working up to them. I decided that with arthritis creeping into my body to stop shooting above 55#@28” just to save what I have left. Most of the time I shoot 46-53# bows. Like Mr Hatfield it has been therapeutic for me. At 42yo I separated my collar bone at the shoulder playing softball, and it took a year to get back to 45# without having any problems. I guess the best thing we can all do is just stay within our limits and throw the ego away when someone walks up to you with a 70# bow and says “here, try this”. It isn’t worth it unless you shoot that wt w/o a problem and are use to it. Stay safe, Lance.

There are not too many traditional matches in my area, but there are some compound shoots. I was shooting at 25 yards (yep, from the youth stake). Shameless, I know, but whatever. Two kids (high school) were talking about how their shoulders would or were hurting them.

This made me think, what are the thing we can do throughout our lives to keep shooting into our 70's and beyond?

Some may have structural abnormalities they are not aware of. I recently became aware of one and I am 77. I was taking a PT evaluation, a follow up after surgery. They told me to stand up straight. I am--no your left shoulder is down-no it isn't. I flexed rolled my shoulders & done my best to stand straight. Why are you holding your right shoulder up? Hands on revealed my right trap was larger,as was the right side of my neck. Then the shoulder blade was said to be different. They ask my occupation before retiring. Then I knew. I am an archer. I had no instruction until well into my 60's. I have had neck problems and 3 vertebrae are fused with screws holding them together. Everyone's mileage may differ though. >>>----> Ken

I hurt my lower back when I was young. So I have pain everyday. Shoulders are holding up so far. Will be 73 next month. Still shoot up to 65#. Pain, sure, but it goes away by end of day. Back pain doesn’t. Course if I lost 100#’s it would help but I an’it seeing that unless struck by lightning. Point is, we are not all made up the same. Sure, same parts but those parts wear and tear different because of jobs we did or genes we got from our parents.

Jeff and Phil, I really didn't shoot 68 until I was 7, at 6 I was shooting 50. LOL!

Just thought everyone knew I'm closer to 3X26 than 2X's.

WillTell, Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't trad any of the discomfort against all the pleasure archery has added to my life. I'm betting no one here would.

I thank God everyday for my favorite sport - golf and golfers. If they knew how much fun archery was the sport would really be screwed up. Can't kill a whitetail with a golf club!!!

I'd like to get started with the preventative stage of this post, but the more I think about it, it might be easier if I posted pictures of stretching and excercies that helped me out.

The problem is I have no pictures. I'll try and get my brother to help with that project. Might be able to get that done WED.

Bowmania

Nothing affecting my shooting.

Just 71, I only have a bad day or so a week where I'm real tired and weak all day long. Older brothers both told me it's normal.

What has been scary is memory loss. Even to the point it's hard to figure things out or it can be very difficult to do anything mechanical. Can remember details of the past, but can't remember something if I turn around. Time will tell if it's serious.

Awful thankful when I'm stringing up my bows or eating fried okra in the summer and fresh baked apple pies in the fall.

Do you know a 22 foot combination ladder is? Heavy. It hurts my low back. I strung a 70" 89 pound longbow yesterday without a bow loader. that hurt my low back too. The common tilt of the dorsal vertebrae for some reason has never hit me. Just lucky maybe, or maybe it is the way i shoot.

Don't assume your body can't recover from whatever ails it if you don't give it a chance to try.

If you're sliding downhill too fast, change something.

Daily 7 exercise will get you limbered up and ready to start your day. Failure to warm up and flex joints may be the problem. Seldom see pro athletes of any sport jump in without some warming up.

I'm 61, have been active I many sports and activities all my life as well as a physically demanding job. I wouldn't change a thing. A few days ago found me running across the roof from hornets and I was losing ground and bailed landing in a 3 point stance and drove my left shoulder (drawing arm) up around my ear. Stuff happens, I'm thankful to have a light 55# bow to go to for a while. Getting older is tougher than I thought it would be, and definitely not for Sissies if you continue to live life the way you like it, and I do.

I'm just shy of 60 and started breaking bone at thirteen bucked off a handcockmare breaking left arm.couple years later fell off a second floor townhouse breaking one ankle and sprained the other. Got cast off in six weeks and horse flipped upside down in the shoot smashing my spur on just healed ankle. Horse flipped forward on me dislocated collar bone. Still out of plumb. Broke ball joint in half on right shoulder no surgery. Took five years before my arm would go above my head. Pulled on pipe wrenches for 35 years. One shoulder is shot both elbows don't close or open all the way. 20 years ago my draw was 28 1/2". Today it's at more than an inch shorter but will not measure it. About a dozen year's ago the bow arm started collapsing so I dropped to 52# bow. Currently shooting a 51# bow and mostly hunt deer and elk. Some days it's hard to get rid of the string. Being semi retired and active I won't have problems shooting that bow for many years to come.being retired I hunt from September to January minimum of 3 days a week. If I miss shoot for a couple weeks I'm pretty sore so it's my therapy for sure.

From a different perspective I never shot heavy bows and have shoulder arthritis so don't worry that you did it wrong. (Of course I have it in my feet and hands and lower back .....)

Just keep going :)

About 10 yrs ago my chiropractor told me I have the bigest discrepancy he has ever seen from left to right. He asked if I know why?? YEP!! He said I will prob have some serious issues as I age if I don't start drawing my bow as many times left handed as I do right. Maybe I'll start tomorrow.

I'm 70 and just started shooting again after a winter rest. Started at 63#. May go to 69 later.

What I do that may help is use bands all winter, go to the gym, and pull my bow with both right (normal) and left hands. I always believed that weight lifting should lead to a balanced body and only pulling my bow right hand would not lead to that.

Have had bone spurs removed from both shoulders and a bicep tedonisis performed on the left.

Will turn 63 soon, actually seem to be getting younger. Diet Nutrition and Attitude :)

I am 72 and have had a dislocated bone in my back that is pinching a nerve most of my life from my couch potato job a Lumberjack....Ha!Ha! I did that from throwing a 150lb log on top of the pile above my head.

I arrived at the swamp before daylight and didn't leave until dark I was cutting cypress in the water, I wasn't allowed to cut any on land. There were two of us in my crew and if you think wood is heavy, you should try picking up a post that is 5'6" full of water or an 11 foot piece. We loaded all the pallets by hand, I averaged 112 trees a day, never stopped for lunch because you wouldn't get back up again.

when I had to refuel the saw, that is when I would grab a biscuit and ham to keep going all day, No Breaks.

For breakfast I would eat six eggs, two biscuits and gravy, one pound of bacon and a quart of milk. You wouldn't believe what I ate for dinner. ...Ha!Ha! It's exciting to get a water moccasin swim between your legs, usually heading out of the swamp they didn't like the vibration that the saw was creating.

Now do you really think drawing a bow is going to hurt you, probably if you have a desk job and don't do a lot.

I can still shoot an 80lb bow, but I don't like it.

You work your body you will pay for it in your later years, but it will also help to keep you in shape plus an exercise program.

Like Mr. Hatfield said it probably helps to keep you from freezing up. I shoot about 70 arrows a day from a 40 lb hickory bow that I made not because I like the 40lb bow, that is what it eventually turned out to be from the moisture here in Florida, I was hoping for a 50 lb one.

I thank luck, genetics, my wife, and my personal tenacity for being able to do what I do at 61. In the last 5 years I've dropped a serious amount of weight and kept it off. I solved an issue r/t lumbar muscle injury and today I have zero back pain. Two of the last three years I've done extended solo hunts in Alaska for moose and caribou. I hunt Alaska (diy) every year. I'm a pretty good hiker. I take no routine medications. My Alaska bows are all over 60 pounds, and I can slow-draw any of them to complete full draw...anchor...hold...and release. I don't have shoulder or elbow issues. My knees feel great, even though there's a family history of really bad knees.

This summer my business built a stone wall of 150' length requiring 21 tons of natural stone weighing up to 75 pounds each. That's 42,000 pounds of limestone with a total stone count of over 900 units. You might not believe it but I hand-carried and placed over 90% of the stones myself, mainly because none of my employees has that particular skill and eye for the job.

I take my health seriously but I'm not obsessive about it. Beer, wine, bourbon, red meat and desserts are all on the menu in moderation.

Oh...and I can pull 8 hours of duty at the helm of my Harley and grill you a steak when we get home.

If this is aging....I'm not complaining.

Paul, nice looking little water buggy. What is it?

1976 Phoenix Isere, just shy of 15 feet long and weighs 29 lbs. I would take this boat anywhere, it has taken me on many adventures and brought me back. Got lucky and found this one locally hanging in a garage for $100, I have another just like it. She is a redhead and likes to be paddled :)

You guys are great. I'm 58 and have had a lot of bark get knocked off of me over the years. That said, I still shoot bows in the low 60s with no issues. I do dumbbell flys several times a week after some shoulder issues a few years ago but have no issues to complain about.

You can lay in bed and get out of alignment so the conditions many talk about isn't necessarily from shooting over the years. Just getting around you can get injured and when your younger it can heal easier but as we age not so much.

There are a lot of variables. I notice I have a lot of falls for many varied reasons.

Balance and strength is another that goes along with alignments and shooting too.

Other than fighting the weight thing, and needing to have both of my knees replaced, I’m doing pretty well. I walked away from a head on car collision with a drunk driver going 65 in a ‘65 Chevelle. I hobbled into an ambulance after going down with my brother’s BMW R100S on I-55 @ 65 mph. I’ve been lucky and watched over. In 2015 I had a small stroke that left me permanently a little dizzy. But other than staying off of ladders, I can still do just about anything I want. I work at maintaining my strength. I still shoot my bows 2 times a week. I’ll be 68 in Oct. Life is good.

My goal in life has always been to be carted away at the end, worn out, beat up and tired with a big smile on my face thinking WOW what a ride, So far I got the worn out, beat up part down pretty good :-)

I have to laugh when I go to the doctor and some young nursey asks me if I am in any pain. Pain is just back ground noise anymore. I figure there is something wrong if I don't hurt.

Considering all the different ages and ailments and non-ailments this was pretty interesting. Good for a couple of laughs also.

Not so happy about the pictures I just took. Now, someone will be able to come to Cheezehead land and take a shot at me or try to kick my butt because of my loud mouth, LOL.

Ok, here's the first one and I think for me the most helpful. When the chiropractor told me what he wanted me to do I said NO! Won't happen.

Go to the corner of two walls and put your arms up as shown and have your chest touch the wall. With my first attempt my chest was about 8, maybe 9 inches from the wall. I didn't believe it could be done until he showed me. Took me about a year and a half to touch. I don't give up.

I'd like to know how close other Wallers are to touching their chest.

Bowmania

That last one was more of a stretch. The following are exercises, either from a PT or a chiropractor.

This is done with a dumbell and a bench. Knee and same side hand on the bench. Extend your left hand to the ground with the dumbell and pull up to your chest. Then and it's the real key, move that elbow up past the back with the back muscles. It's like moving the shoulder blade towards the spine.

I really hate this. I do three sets of 15 with each arm. The rest I do 4 sets of 15.

Bowmania

I use the bench to rest my forehead on this. The PT just said bend over, but that was hard on my back.

Pretty much has the same final movement as the last one. Done with bent elbows. You can touch the dumbells in from of your chest and move up and finally squeezing the shoulder blades together.

These are done with a pully system. This one starts overhead and pull down to below the waist.

This is sideways. From one side to the opposite.

This last one is starting below the waist and goes over the head. I think these last three really improve shoulder strength.

If anyone has others, please share.

Bowmania

The body is important but the mind is the greater issue, try to shoot a dz or so every day to keep the focus. Been around some physical strong gents with dementia and that is the main factor in keeping a healthy mind, once the mind goes everything else is irreverent.

The last 2 are shoulder exercises. 6 in all and while they look like arm, are really shoulder. Do all 6 and they will last a long time.

LKM, Shoulder and back.

Bow

I do most of the exercises shown, on a Bowflex machine. I’m going to fight off the effects of old age as long as I am able.

MP

Fellows sometimes "it", old age, just seems to hit you all at once.

Last year I thought heck at 74 I'm good for another 30 years. This year 75 and after having full rotator cuff surgery in May, (currently rehabbing) my son passing in June, I just found out I have cervical stenosis, with two pinch point's that could lead to loss of use in my arm's. I'm beginning to rethink that the 30 years noted above may only be 20 years. LOL

Seriously regarding wear and tear on the body is subjective to many variances, i.e. type of work, life style, routine exercise etc.

IMHO,

When it comes to shooting a bow I believe it all begins with good posture from the time you put the bow in your hand and your finger or release on the string. If you do not have excellent posture from beginning to end in your/the sequence of your shot routine then the chances of having damage to your structural/skeletal frame is enhanced long term especially in a vigorous shooter.

In addition poor posture when shooting your bow tends to not allowing for or being able to realizing your full potential (skill) of shooting a bow.

*** note: There are exceptions to to the norm *** LOL

buc i.....God bless your son and all his family.

Kevin,

Thank you

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