From: mangonboat
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Date: 05-Jul-18 |
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I have a 1964-ish Firedrake, s/n 7619, lefty, 69", marked 39@27. Shoots very well but I cannot get those tips to stop vibrating on release. I've put ragg wool tarn puffs exactly on the harmonics on the string and the noise and vibration comes from the tips, not the string. I've got it braced at 8.125". Any suggestions? I cant abide a twangy bow. I have been shooting 600 spine carbons and I am going to try #6 MicroFlites.
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From: joe vt
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Date: 05-Jul-18 |
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I have always liked a low brace height. It may not help but try going lower than higher. Worth a try.....
You didn't mention the string material. It may be worth mentioning for those more experienced in string materials.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 05-Jul-18 |
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Lowering will likely make it twangier, but what the hey...you can try it. Try the fiberglass first...much more mass and may help a great deal. Make sure nocks aren't too tight on the string also.
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From: Orion
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Date: 05-Jul-18 |
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Brace height looks awfully high. Did you check the tiller? Could be way out of tiller. Regardless, a low stretch string, padded in the loops, will go a long way toward reducing the limb tip vibration.
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 05-Jul-18 |
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Did you put wool wraps below the loops?
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From: Silverhawk
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Date: 05-Jul-18 |
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Brace height may be a shade high but having said that noise from the recurves indicate your getting work from the recurves and it's a fast bow. Enjoy
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From: Mpdh
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Date: 05-Jul-18 |
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Are the tips bigger than they need to be?
MP
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From: mangonboat
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Date: 05-Jul-18 |
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Thanks for all the good ideas to try, with the exception of reducing the size of the tips. I am sure there is a "punishable by death" provision somewhere when it comes to sanding down the work of Harry Drake and Mathew. Fiberglass arrows and yarn wrapped below the loops sounds like the next logical steps.
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From: RymanCat
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Date: 05-Jul-18 |
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Sure does look high on brace. Twang.
I have had many Drakes all great bows . I have one still that I love.
Need to be very careful on string up with those tips too.
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From: BigHorn
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Date: 06-Jul-18 |
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wrap string ends or brushbuttons maybe, after playing with brace height
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 06-Jul-18 |
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I have a feeling that the brace might need adjustment as well.
I find my Drakes have a narrow window that they like and it's easy to detect once you are there.
Here's an excerpt from a thread posted a few years ago on Drake BH. I was curious about BH on Drakes and was comparing different bows. Hope it helps;
" Davidross and I exchanged PM's this evening as I was curious what the BH was on his Firedrake.
I had explained that my starting point was with the string just leaving the limb grooves and that translated into 6 3/4" brace to the deepest part of the grip. The bow was noisy with some wrist slap at that setting so I quickly moved it up a fair amount to avoid stressing the limbs.
It was quite a bit better but I kept increasing and the bow changed noticeably and hit the groove at 7 5/8". I went a bit over with no improvement and back down to that setting.
At that point about 1" of the top limb groove is revealed and almost none of the bottom and the tiller is dead on.
That is the exact same setting that davidross has on his! As he said above the prior owner Mr. Gerber "...had it well dialed in."
The limb groove reveal is also identical on both bows so the bowyer filed the grooves to a set length. It shows that using the limb groove method for initial BH setting can be misleading.
This would indicate to me that lam and wedge thickness were pretty consistent as was quality control on glue up.
Distance to the back of the sight window is 6 7/8". The riser depth across the shelf is a hair over 2 1/4" to provide an answer to crookedstix' question if my bow is slimmer than the one in the ad.
I was quite impressed with the similarities."
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From: Dry Bones
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Date: 06-Jul-18 |
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Not that I have lots of experience with the Drakes, BUT I would agree with the padded loops, and you mentioned shooting 600 spine arrows, but you did not say what your total arrow weight was. May be a mute point, but on a few different recurves I have noticed if I drop down below 8+- GPP I get more vibration, of course this could be string and not actual tip related, but just another thought.
-Bones
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From: Babbling Bob
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Date: 06-Jul-18 |
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If you could find some old brush buttons or have some old ones in a tackle box, bet they would take the limb vibrations to a loud thud. Think I like the vibrations better though.
Remember some of those bows, such as some of the 1962 Hoyt PM's with the first ball stabilizers. Seems like some of those I watched back then had vibraring limbs. The heavy wood risers which became popular a year later in 1963, such as my '63 Tamerlane, or the rosewood Wing Presentations and Howatts, did not have those noticable vibrations.
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From: mangonboat
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Date: 07-Jul-18 |
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I let enough twist out of the string to get the BH down to just under 8", shot tonight's FSOD with No 6 MicroFLite with 125 gr. glue on field tip with 25 gr tapered insert. Nice arrow flight but those tips still a-twitching. It seems illogical that the tip vibration will be less with lower BH, but I'll keep at it.
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From: jaz5833
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Date: 07-Jul-18 |
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My suggestion is that you talk to me about ridding yourself of that twangy bow!
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From: DanaC
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Date: 07-Jul-18 |
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They look like crap but how about trying limbsavers?
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From: indianalongbowshoote
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Date: 07-Jul-18 |
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try a different string, could be how the string is made causing it or if its a older string.
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From: mangonboat
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Date: 07-Jul-18 |
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Its a new B50 string with the loops sized specifically for this bow. Maybe I should try BCYX with yarn wraps. I dont think I can abide Limbsavers on a 1964 Drake, either.
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From: Pdiddly
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Date: 07-Jul-18 |
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Yarn wraps have cured a lot of buzzy bows for me...wool puffs help but the wraps seal the deal. I extend them 1/2" beyond the string contact point. I also use very thin yarn.
Firedrake limbs are not really "stiff" as in you can grab the string and move it up and down and the limbs move far more than other bows. Not sure about yours Mark. It makes them touchy for brace.
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From: jaz5833
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Date: 07-Jul-18 |
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Whoops! Just noticed it's a lefty. You're on your own with that one.....It can't be fixed!
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From: woodshavins
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Date: 07-Jul-18 |
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I had a low poundage Wing Swift Wing that was similar. I "assumed", the vibrating tops were inherent in the long limbs and low poundage. Not sure if that's the case but was my guess.
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From: mangonboat
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Date: 07-Jul-18 |
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I had the same thing with a 1962 Swift Wing, 29#, but quieted right down with brace height around 7.875 and wool puffs. I was even able to shoot 1616 knitting needles with no noticeable tip vibration. Who knows..maybe the cause it those pretty tip overlays out on the end of a long, skinny limb.
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From: arrowchucker
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Date: 07-Jul-18 |
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20strands of BCYX with half a cat whisker about 12-14” from tips. Hvy arrow always helps but I shoot 68-70” bows a lot and the BCYX sting is like a cable, no strech, no vibration. If you put all the other things on the tips to make it quiet you are adding weight, the tips are small for a reason. Performance!! Don’t ruin that by adding a bunch of heavy things. Call Ron at Extreme Bowstrings and he will make a string that fits you bow and your nocks for $15! A bout 700 million color choices too. Tell him Arrowchucker sent you! Arrowchucker out
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From: fewfeathers
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Date: 08-Jul-18 |
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I've had the same problem with lighter bows. You're probably using 14 strand B50. Reduce the strand count to 10. She'll turn on and quit vibrating. Also, the limbs won't rebound as far(the vibration.) So, you'll be able to set the BH a little lower. You probably won't need silencers. Rick
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From: fewfeathers
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Date: 08-Jul-18 |
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I just read Jaz' posts. He makes outstanding strings. I should qualify my statement above. I have 22 bows I use for students. Six are DH x200s. The rest are Samik Sages and a couple Stingreys. I've replaced the strings to 10 strand B50. I've replaced newer strings. So, I know it's not a new string vs old. They all shoot better and the tips don't flail around like they used to. I have 3 Hoyt ILF bows that were real bad 'till I put new strings on. I have a Wing Gull @27#. I put a 12 strand continuous loop B50 string on. This bow has very fine tips and narrow outer limbs. I've had several archers in disbelief about the weight when they saw the cast. Just reducing the strand count by 2 turned that bow on. You can reduce the string weight with modern "no stretch" strings. I've experimented with many bows. I believe, with some, particularly older designs need the shock absorbing qualities of a lighter Dacron string. A heavier dacron string hits them almost as hard as a FF type string. I'd try a 10 strand B50-Cheap and you'll probably be able to get one tomorrow. And then order an SBD skinny string. They have a little give and padded loops. You have a beautiful old bow that will outshoot most modern bows with the right string. Just remember, all that vibration will work on the glue joints, particularly at the fades. Rick
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