I remember the days when traditional shooters, no matter what style they shot were in the barebow compound class. Today I see soooooo many classes just for traditional shooters. Have we reached the " No one gets left behind" mentality at shoots, or am I reading too much into it? If you're a good shooter, you're a good shooter no matter what style you shoot. As a side note, I remember a lot of disgruntled barebow shooters when they got whomped by a traditional shooter.

A compound barebow is a large advantage to a to a single string barebow in my opinion. 25 yards and in, not so much but stretch it out to 80 and it's a huge advantage.

I like Trad shoots, but I know what you mean... I just go and shoot and sit by the campfire

Yes there are too many classes. Everyone has an advantage over us.

My opinion is that people bitch and complain until a new class is made and then those same people don’t go to the shoots so that you see 1-3 people in a class. The biggest complainers are usually the ones that attend the least number of shoots. I like shoots that separate classes by wood arrows vs carbon aluminum etc and those that have a separate class for selfbow. That being said I can always find a class to shoot in if I really want to shoot.

I have to go along with the “showing up to shoot “ comment. Why should a club spend the time and effort for a handful of shooters?

In the PSAA, there are fewer classes then there were in 1978 so I think it's working the other way over there.

Locally, all traditional is sorted into one class (actually two, male and female.) I think that's too simple, but it's 'fun' shooting, not competitive in any real sense.

In IBO you have Recurve Unaided, Longbow, Traditional, Female Traditional and Senior Traditional, plus other classes at the Trad World shoot.

Not sure how it is in other areas or organizations. No matter how you divide it, someone will complain, that's a given ;-)

Not enough classes and someone is getting screwed and not coming back. To many classes and the club isn't going to make enough money. Truely a no win situation.

Maybe not worry so much about the classes. They were put there for a reason and that was to have a level playing field for those with different skills. People have been whining about too many or too few for decades, but mostly the ones who aren't getting their arses kicked at every shoot. As your skill level improves, you can move up and compete on that level. Makes perfect sense to me the way it was set up and I have no problem with it. Easiest way to discourage new competitive shooters is to lock them in with someone they can never compete with.

My 2 cents folks.

I've always felt like I've given very nice awards at my events (even been told that on many occasions), averaging over $800.00 per event for 1st, 2nd & 3rd place for classes.

I've had 10 classes at the Howard Hill Southeastern Classic for years. Men's Longbow, Recurve & Self Bow, same for Women. A Juniors, Youth & Cub and then added a Men's Seniors Class.

At this past HH Classic, I was sort of chastised for not having a Women's Sr Class, by a woman. I explained I really didn't want to put a woman on the spot by asking ages or just assuming that fact. She told me she'd take a survey and even she had trouble asking or assuming a woman would qualify.

I'd also like to mention at this past Pre-Spring Arrow Fling, I had NO WOMEN shoot in the Women's Self Bow Class. SO, I had three awards that had no home.

I see over and over, only 1st or even 1st & 2nd place on the least participated class at an event.

I don't mind having classes for participants, but I really feel if I, or any club, doesn't have at least 5 or 6 participants show up to compete, it doesn't even pay for the awards given.

I don't know how to know this in advance, nor I'm sure anyone does.

For next year's 15th Howard Hill Classic I've thought of adding more classes for RU Men's & Women's as well as dividing Men's Longbow to Men's Modern Longbow for all arrows and then a regular Men's Longbow for wooden arrows only. It remains to be seen.

Sorry to be so long winded.

Terry Harris

bwallace, the "wheel" classes just were a continuation of classes for all archery. Again...One class? So aspiring archers would shoot against guys who have shot for years? No. Like golf handicaps, little leagues, Pop Warner football, etc., a kid or even adult needs to have a level playing field to learn on or they will just go to another sport. It's not classes that are keeping people away from shoots.

"Again...One class? So aspiring archers would shoot against guys who have shot for years? No"

With all the respect George, I beg to differ. Classes - at least the ones from here - have nothing to do with the years or skills, but with the equipment that can bring some advantages IF you know what you are doing. The most important thing is "IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING". For a competitive oriented archer, the fact he shoots with the best will push him in the right direction - he has a goal and an idea of what it takes to win. In any sport "nobody" became "somebody" because they were allowed to compete against today's "somebody". The key is to know when to go to a competition and what you want to achieve by going there. IF you talk about competition just for the sake of being in the woods and come back form there with a nice "feel good about myself" you are right. It should be classes for 1month archer, 6 month archer, 1 year archer, 3 years archer and so on.

I was one of the founding fathers of a club in California in the 1970's, Our big open shoot would often have 600+ registered shooters, it took almost as long to present the trophy's as it did to shoot the tournament and was a huge financial expense to the club. What ever happened to having FUN! Does there need to be a reward at the end of the tournament for it to be fun? For me no! I enjoy shooting my bow, and don't need to compete to have fun.

The was a competitive shooter in California I remember that would do anything to win, if he had to make comments to his competition that would distract his concentration, so be it. That's not fun as far as I'm concerned,

Bob

For these reasons and others I now just compete with myself exclusively. For me it’s like anything else when you add a reward people get silly. I won’t even shoot skins anymore because I don’t need someone getting pissed off over a quarter. I set goals for myself and either reach them or not. The biggest thing is that if you enjoy the competition show up and be supporting to those hosting. Shoot a class for a year before you make suggestions. Look at the big picture from the organizations perspective and make sure you aren’t trying to make a class that’s perfect for you but nobody else.

I think if your going to have competition than you have to even the playing field. You wouldn't put a high school player against a Pro. Putting all Archers in one group wouldn't be fair. I'm the most uncompetitive person you'll ever meet. I don't keep score when I golf or when I 3D shoot. I only ever entered one shoot where they kept score and that was fun but not for me.

This would be my ideal 3D setup. Fair and reasonably inclusive.

1) primitive-self bows/wood arrows.

2) bowhunter- recurves/longbow without mechanical rests/stabilizers.

3) open-recurves and longbows only forbidden equipment are sights and release aids.

Think it depends on the size and money available for the event. More attending = more money = more classes.

Remember when we first started seeing those inital compounds (allen bows), just after recurve risers got huge and heavy, they shot with us fancy target recurve fellows and no one said a thing. Nowdays, should be expected in small communities or smaller events where the majority of shooters are compound fellows, or special events geared to more a single type of bow such as OJAM or MOJAM, that if they are kind enough to have a recurve or traditional division which matches our equipment, we need to appreciate it, but not expect it. A senior event? Most of us who qualify, aren't old yet (just starting to get there).

Classes get added or eliminated as needed by the clubs/organizations hosting the events. It's up to them to do a good job with dividing according to demand. Example, one of the best things the I.B.O. did a few years ago was add the Traditional/Vintage Hunter (one of the bigger classes now). But that was after a failed attempt at a bowhunter class with the Heavy Hunter class. Just my .02 Regards

I remember back-in-the-day ('60's) either you were barebow (instinctive) or Freestyle (shot with a sight). Those classes were broken down into your ability to shoot. The complaint of those days were the ones who were sandbaggers. Shoot right up to the score where they would have to move up a class but then intentionally miss so the could win in their class. Wood, fiberglass or aluminum arrows didn't matter. Shooting off the shelf or with rests and Berger buttons, didn't matter. In my opinion, the downfall of competitive archery was when the compounds entered the scene and a guy shooting a recurve with fingers had to compete against the guy with a compound using a release. (Example was the Ben Pearson open held annually at Cobo Hall in Detroit back in the late 60's) Thank goodness, since then they've divided those classes. However, compounds did help to popularize archery.

Agreed about too many classes - our club just hosted the Southwest Sectional for NFAA, we had about 55 shooters - so many categories that often there was 3 or fewer in a category, seemed like most people who shot placed in the top 3 of their group. As it was, if there was 3 in a class, they all placed (e.g. last was 3rd place and got a ribbon).

I think that, in order to win something, YOU MUST BEAT SOMEONE. So if there are only 2 people competing in a class, only one gets a prize. If only 3, only two get a prize. The implication of an award is, you WON... but in order to win, you have to beat someone, anyone! Otherwise, it's just a 'participation trophy'.

IN a competiton it is just a Winner, the next inline is the 1st looser, the 3rd in line is the 2nd looser and so on. The problem of clubs spending more time on festivities vs actual competition time it's an internal affair not a "too many classes" issue.

In a competition it is just a Winner, the next inline is the 1st loser, the 3rd in line is the 2nd loser and so on. The problem of clubs spending more time on festivities vs actual competition time it's an internal affair not a "too many classes" issue.

In the 60s there was just the NFAA and like Zildjian51 stated two or three classes, barebow, Freestyle, Bowhunter and shooters kept a handicap card. Some tried to sandbag but if you shot every weekend and kept your scores on a handicap card you'd have to sandbag all year. If there were some that did that they had to be desperate to win a trophy.

I do find it frustrating these days where there are so many different archery organizations out there, each with a different set of equipment rules it would take a spreadsheet to keep it all straight.

USA at all the national events have three basic classes. Compound, recurve (Olympic), and barebow. I shoot the barebow class and love the simplicity of three classes. Ages are broken up, but three bowstyles for the most part. USA barebow numbers are growing too for what it's worth

I think at last years NFAA National Field there was like 116 classes. No kidding. Cub, youth, young adult, adult, senior (50+), super senior (60+), master senior (70+).. Then multiply by. Trad, longbow, Barebow, bow hunter freestyle, Bowhunter freestyle limited, recurve limited, freestyle, open, pro, .Now multiply again by Male and female. I probably missed or miss quoted a couple but you see!!, Way too many. Arrowchucker out

Everone needs a trophy.

Arrowchucker, I handle registartion at an IBO shoot and they give me a 'cheat sheet' just so I can mark down what color stake shooters are standing at! Only a handful of 'trad' classes but compounders get sorted 90 ways from Tuesday ;-) Luckily the shooters themselves seem to know what class they're in.

I personally appreciate they give us 60+ shooters a class and a five yard break (as long as we don't use RU gear.)

I figure the need for different classes is so no one can cry fowl if they have to shoot against someone with a different set up . Imagine the fighting if string walking were allowed in the trad class or a stabilizer and rest against those shooting off a shelf. Years ago few shot in the ru class but now it has as many or more as the trad class at Ibo shoots. ilf rigs have really taken hold and you see more and more of them . I see it as a good thing because it brings in more shooters .

You know if the only reason you're going to shoots is to win trophies if you're an amateur, why bother going to shoot at all? What's wrong with just shooting for the enjoyment of the sport. The heck with the trophies. Get a great workout and exercise too. I for one only keep score to see if I'm getting any better at guessing yardages and the only one I need to beat is my last score. (Unless of course, I'm shooting with my sister. LOL)

The last traditional shoot I attended had three classes - Men, Women, Youth.

Not one person whined or complained. Everyone had a great time with the most friendly competition I've ever been part of.

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