My shooting has been on a down word spiral lately and seems that the harder a practice the worse I was getting After shooting today I talked with a friend that has been competitive all his life. He's passed 80 at this point in his life so I value his recommendations. Working as a carpenter all my life has both kept me active and broke me down physically, but still in pretty good shape other than my shoulders. He recommended taking time off and shooting a lighter bow and I feel it's good advice. Apparently I've been overtraining and need a vacation. Anyone else had similar problems and what did you do to correct that situation. Shooting with some pain and tired arms has caused some form problems that I now need to correct as well.

One of my problems has been I have never really enjoyed practicing or shooting for that matter. One of the reasons was that my hunting bows were too heavy to enjoy shooting 100 arrows or so. For a short period of time I dropped down to 45# and found I could enjoy taking 100 shots but if I did it very often I soon lost interest. If I am honest with myself I have to admit that part of my dislike for shooting was that I had never developed an aiming system so it was impossible for me to really fine tune anything. I could get 6" groups at 15 yards but that seemed to be as good as I could get. If you don't have an aiming system I would suggest learning one. I fully intend to one of these days.

Taking a few days off sure helps me. At my age if I take off to long it gets too hard to draw and I don't want to drop down any more weight. If my fingers or shoulders get a little tired or sore,my body will try to compensate in some way. That leads to bad form. When I take 3 or 4 days off the first group is usually better than my last practice session. I don't shoot over 2 or 3 dozen arrows at a session either.Just what seems to work for me. >>>-----> Ken

Listen to your body. Don't shoot so much.

I value your friends advice as it has worked for me as well. Double shoulder surgery leaves me sore sometimes and causes me sometimes to get fatigued and it shows in my shooting. Howerver I'm a strong believer in practice as well. Maybe try only taking one arrow out to your target. Shoot that one arrow like it's the only shot you will take so it must count. Do this 5 times or so. Keeps you practicing and your focus at the max. I do this right now just because I'm working on focus but I do it for several ends. But if one arrow hurts and a week or two off would help that. Than do it! Listen to your body!

I find shooting one arrow at a time, concentrating on form for the one shot, pulling the arrow and repeating has kept my waning interest up. Stacking a pile of arrows in the target is boring for me, to redundant.

Shooting 15 to 20 arrows per session with hunting weight bows is what I do. Anything more, I see no gain and tend to get sloppy form. This sport is meant to be fun, so listen to your body and do what feels good. And for me, this has included dropping down in draw weight over the years.

When in doubt back ,out! Rest then come back and just work on form you may have picked up a number of bad habits that can eventually lead to TP if it hasn't already and shoot a lighter bow for the form.

Your probably breaking form and getting frustrated. We don't know if your over bowed either another reason. Plus hows your string have you checked brace lately and equipment considerations maybe.

Just some thoughts from experiences.

The cat has good suggestions, check your equipment also, I put a new string on one of my bows and it helped considerably, of course you should have seen the old string...Ha!Ha!

I shoot until I start to get a little sloppy then quit, you can't train tired muscles.

Agree with your friend. I started shooting a 38 longbow and quit shooting when I start losing control. I had to quit shooting for a couple months because of shoulder problems.

W -

Physically over-training (technical definition) is almost impossible for most amateur athletes. Mentally over training, or training incorrectly is another thing all together and the latter is all too common.

Shooting too heavy a bow, or shooting with poor form can both cause progressive deterioration.

So, yeah, your friend is probably right, taking a little time off to recoup and using a bow you can comfortably handle should help, but not as much as some time with a good instructor.

Yeah, and the one arrow at a time and 20 arrows a day thing has to work, that's how Olympic shooters do it, right?

Viper out.

Over training is not a myth. If you want to shoot a lot, shoot light. I love to shoot, but once fatigue sets in, it is shortly followed by frustration.

Thanks for the advice I do value the folks here on the wall. Raymoncat your pretty right on with how I've been feeling and yes I probably have tp as well. My buddy says your body goes into survival mode and changes things to adapt to your injuries,part of the bad form problem,short draw quick release and so on. I'm only shooting about a 42# bow but my work is what has done most of the damage. I've since changed the typ of work slightly and hope that helps in my recovery. My bows are tuned beautifully so I'm sure that's not the problem. I'm amazed how quickly you guys recognize the problem and I'm grateful for the advice.

Taking time (a week or two off) and then restarting with a lighter draw set up will do wonders for your shot and interest.

Set a goal---no more than 20 quality arrows each session. Get your new rig tuned well to new arrows. Take your time and enjoy the process (tuning is an enjoyable part of it for me).

If you bow is light enough you will find that you can shoot many more than 20 arrows at a time, but again focus on quality shots. You can also come back for another session or two in the same day if the interest is there.

Shoot one arrow and then pull it.

Maintain a low bow shoulder and write down each successful form change as it gets you heading back in the right direction. Again, take it slow and enjoy each milestone.

I for one can't follow my own suggestions. I know not to shoot so much that your form, release and bow arm start to breakdown. I love to shoot since going trad. But my problem sounds like yours, I have to yell at myself to stop. Know when to stop will help in the long run. You will know when your getting close to being done. Make your last good group of arrows be it for the session.

Tony 75% of your post is spot on. The last is a bit harsh. I choose to believe you forgot the smiley face. Olympic shooters do shoot hundreds of arrows every day. Most don't do it after putting in a 10 or 12 hour day,mowing the lawn etc. Then there is the age thing. The average age on this site is getting on up there. The OP'S mentor was past 80 he may not be very young himself. I am 76 If I managed to shoot that much it would probably mean a trip to the ER and no more shooting for weeks. You still have the best "Trad" book out there. "Shooting the StickBow" Everyone would profit from reading it.Take care my friend, >>>----> Ken

Ken -

Harsh? Maybe. True? Definitely.

Go back and re-read what I said.

"So, yeah, your friend is probably right, taking a little time off to recoup and using a bow you can comfortably handle should help, but not as much as some time with a good instructor."

Over-training in the technical sense is pretty rare with amateur athletes. My comments were directed at the shoot and fetch BS and the 20 arrows a day thing. The former may be acceptable if hunting or maybe 3D are the only goals, but even with that, it's only a part of the overall training process. And 20 shots a day is BS, pure and simple. The fact is, unless someone is recovering from an illness/injury or that physically infirm, 20 arrows is kind of a warm up.

There are a lot of things we do as Olympic archers that have little or no bearing on your typical trad bowhunter, but adequate practice ain't one of them. Yes, you need quantity as well as quality is you want to improve.

Don't get me wrong, if shooting 10 - 20 arrows in your back yard every few days floats yer boat, that's great. Just don't complain about how badly you shoot or how things aren't getting better.

Viper out.

best thing I did was go down a few pounds! Improved everything.

Think the suggestions to just only shoot a few each day and work up to shooting more seems the easiest to accomplish. Not always easy to switch to a low draw weight bow immediately if funds aren't there for it, you don't have something you can trade, or don't see anything you want.

One thing about having several bows on the rack with several draw weights is they can be used for family and friends too.

Rats! I was hoping you left off the smiley face. Of course you are right. I just don't think there are very many on the LW training for the olympics. Maybe I am the only one that isn't. That just wouldn't be any fun for me even if it were possible. It would be work. I don't want archery to be a job. Take care, >>>----> Ken

Hey I got smiley faces for every one. My injuries were mostly work related unfortunately I'm self employed although I'm over 66 so I'm covered with medical treatment. The injuries were due to heavy lifting mostly. And just overuse. I love shooting my bow a lot like a minimum of an hr to hr and a half a day. My shoulders have been sore for quite some time and I just refused to put it down. With the new recommendations I'm laying off for a week and shooting only 20 arrows a day and one at a time. I'm definitely using a lighter bow and going to work my way hopefully back up in weight. But I'm still going to restrict myself from shooting to much. I'm kinda excessive when I do things. But this forces me to rethink my game. Thanks for everyone's advice and recommendations.

I’ve found that gradually increasing the draw weight forced me to become a better shot. I also found that by pushing my bow toward the target as I’m reaching full draw helped my accuracy a little. We’re all different, and what works for one, may not work for everyone.

I took a break from archery for about three years. Had no choice. Old shoulder injuries made it too painful. I wanted to try again so I started working out with a bowflex, a little bit each day with a weight my granddaughter could handle. Now the pain is minimal and I can handle shooting more each day. My doctor calls it bursitis. Said that working out slowly would strengthen everything and lessen the pain. He was right. Now I only shoot about 35 pounds and probably 30 arrows or so, quit, then come back later and do it again.

When I was hunting, 45 pounds was all I could handle. In a compound, 60. Now at 68 I’m glad that I can still shoot. I have Tony’s book and it is an excellent read. I’ve been shooting all my life and have the same knowledge he has. That being said, I disagree with his advice. I think there comes a time when a person has to step back. Not every one is an athlete, not every one is young, and not everyone wants to train like an Olympian. Tony I respect your opinion, but I don’t agree with you at all on this one.

Ken, John -

You're not really getting my point, and getting a little hung up on the word "Olympian".

Let me see if I can state it another way. If you want to get better, you have to put in the time, and that means getting enough arrows down range. This is a game of repetition. I'm sure there are some people who are natural athletes and can do anything with little practice, but I've yet to meet one of them in person.

So, IOWs, I'm not telling you or any one else what you should do, lets just keep the expectations and requirements real.

Viper out.

Any chance you could do some roving? More walking, looking, musing than shooting? Each shot an adventure in itself kind of thing. Instead of grinding things away by repeating the same shot ad infinitum.

Tony I do understand. I do get your point. I said you were right. It just don't fit a lot of our situations. Like I said it is totally impossible for me to get better by using those methods. I am well past my peak. I would not put in the WORK anyway. I have had a very successful hunting career,won a few 3D tournaments and had a ton of fun along the way.I will continue to enjoy it until I am down to a 20 pound bow. Then I may consider giving it up or entering the kids class.No worries Tony. We are good.>>>---->Ken

Ken -

I know we're on the same page buddy. And the bottom line is always doing what works for you. As we get older, a lot of things can (and do) get in the way. Some we can overcome and some we can't.

Most people on this board want to get better. In most cases there are things they can do to make that happen. Likewise, there are a lot of people here who think what they are doing is fine and dandy and bask in mediocrity under the guise of "trad".

LA -

That sounds really great, but lets be real, it's total bullshit, and no where near what I posted or implied. Once your form fails due to physical fatigue, you put the bow down. If a shot doesn't feel right, you let down. That's kinda like archery 101.

The problem there is, are we talking about real fatigue or is something else going on. The loosing mental focus thing is a lot less common than you think. If you actually learned how to shoot, most of the shots are done "by the numbers", the amount of concentration is just nowhere near what some folks think or want you to think. In fact, the more (good) practice you get, the more you can go into autopilot.

Sure, quality is the number one factor, but without quantity, you'll never get quality.

And please remember that real matches start at 30 arrows and go up to 144. Years ago, most archers built up to that fairly quickly. There are a lot of reasons why too many trad shooters today suck, but flinging TOO MANY arras, might not be at the top of the list. So no one is advocating shooting bad arrows, but part of the game is conditioning yourself to have effective practice sessions. And in my experience 60 - 100 arrow two times a week is the bare minimum for a new shooter, without physical infirmaries. The better they want to get, the more time is going to have to be dedicated.

Viper out.

If you have already registered, please

sign in now

For new registrations

Click Here