Shooting with a bent elbow compared to a stiff arm how many might shoot this way any help I would be thank for

Why?

A bent elbow is difficult for most people to duplicate consistently.

Makes the neccessity of some sort of draw check (on the front end of the arrow) more of a requirement to ensure that your draw length is consistent.

Moves the pressure of the load at full draw to a position that may or may not be comfortable for you.

Shifting pressure off your skeletal structure and onto your muscles and tendons is a recipe for injury.

Not to mention inconsistant shot executions...but I guess I just did! LOL! ;)

That is the only way I have shot for over 50 years and I still can't hit anything....Ha!Ha!

Actually my bow arm is pretty rigid, it doesn't change regardless of the poundage, I'm sure it has to do with the accident I had 28 years ago.

I aim the arrow so it really doesn't matter where my arms are as long as I produce a smooth release, no plucking and don't drop my bow arm after release.

I have shot from the hip and that is definitely a bent arm and no anchor point and my groups are pretty good, but I don't do that more than 12 yards away for safety.

Now this is just me,

the more precision way would be the target straight arm, verticle bow, head up and looking forward, thumb stuck in your ear, third finger in your nostril and a forty seven pound counter weight on the front of the bow. Not the Hill method bent arm tilted head arched back.

As fdp said it is difficult for a lot of folks to maintain an accurate bent bow arm.

Ok I think your over thinking it guys I dont shoot tournament style,or pistol grips or recurves I shoot with a bent elbow like Howard,John Shultz,Bob Wesley,Bob Swinehart etc etc etc If you practise and learn proper technique and shoot smooth and fluid its a prefered style of longbow shooting,,and hunting,i dont know where your getting physical harm and inconsistent draw from Here again shooting with a bent elbow is not tournament style technique but a hunting technique

Fats what kinda bow you shooting? What are you looking to do,,,target,hunting,etc?

Scott, That is what I said.

We posted same time Ronny i was wondering on our orher leatherwall brethren

One of the absolute fallacies of the Leatherwall is that there is a "hunting" technique as opposed to a "target" technique. It leads new archers to believe that one method will not work for the other discipline, which again is a fallacy.

In and of itself that thinking would indicate that the "hunting" technique doesn't produce the same level of accuracy as the "target" technique. Which is true for most archer's but not all.

Why in the world would you want to add an additional step to the process of shooting, that is't natural ? When you raise your arm and point at something across the room in line with your eye, your elbow isn't bent. It isn't locked out either.

Thats garbage. If it were true, then Saxton Pope, Art Young, the Thomson Brothers, Will Compton, and on and on could never have been successful huners.

As it pertais to John Schulz, you have to keep in mind that the ONLY way he was ever taught to shoot a bow was by mimicking Howard Hill. So there's that.

The easiest way to shoot a bow, is use a system that is the most easily repeated, with the least amount thought.

Inconsisten draw is very simple, If you don't have the bend in your elbow the same every time, or at the very least have a method of checking your draw on the front end, you don't have a consistent draw length.

I agree with Mountain Man. Bent arm worked for me for 50+ seasons.

Deno

Whatever keeps ya happy Frank,,,,,good luck brother

I got some bent arm,swing draw shooting to do,,,,so i can go hunting Ill leave all the shoot my way or your wrong stuff to you pros

No one said anything about "shoot my way or your wrong" at all.

The OP never indicated WHY he wants to shoot with a bent elbow, which was the first question that was asked. Unless he is attempting to change something, there is no logical reason to do it. And unless one knows what he wishes to change, then bending the elbow my, or may not be the right way to go about it. Plain and simple.

If you want to shoot consistently, lessen the chance of injury, and shoot well under pressure ie: BIG BUCK slowing moving into your kill zones. The only way is a bone on bone alignment system. . If something is bent you are using muscles, muscles fatigue,are difficult to repeat position, and are prone to injury. Move bones, not muscles. Just saying. Arrowchucker out

I think what's best is 'doing what comes naturally', as in the old song. Some people cannot fully extend their arms, and some over-extend the elbow. Often it is burly men for the former and graceful females for the second. But not always. I have had the opposite among my students.

Extend your arm to whatever extent is most comfortable and stable for yourself. - lbg

It is possible to shoot a deer that is depressed and tired with 'target style', but every time anyone speaks of Hill form, the target form folks get upset. While I don't care one way or the other, I do believe that target shooters watch too much CNN news.

No, personally I don't. I can, but see no advantage. If you position your bow hand correctly on the grip, you should easily clear your bow arm with the string. I only wear an arm guard when hunting while wearing bulky hunting coats.

I do straighten my arm only when I need a little extra power, I do whatever I need to match the circumstance.

I have shot the Hill method for the last 60 years and I think it is the ultimate hunting form for me.

You have to practice and experiment to find what is best for you, that is why there are many different ways to do things.

I shoot my longbows with a bent elbow.It just works out that way naturally due to the handle (H Hill) shape.

Each way is lethal when applied to the task at hand.That is a known fact,brady ellison,howard hill.It is up to the archer to get to were he can hit what, and were he wants to hit bent elbow or not.We are all different to some extent,so practice, and find your sweet spot. Bottom line.

Y'all wanna see a practically flawless full draw form? Note the line from arrow point to the elbow of the drawing arm. This my Ole Lady. She has very good form. And accuracy...?

...accuracy and consistency are nice. A bent elbow won't bend the exact same way shot after shot.

This is what works for her. What ever works for you then go with it. But it should work 90% of the time. Meaning, you should be hitting your target 90% of the time.

Toxo, I am glad she shoots well but that is not flawless form. Her draw elbow is too low, as is her head. Her front shoulder is a bit high, and she needs to rotate her upper bow arm clockwise. She's also anchoring with her thumb knuckle which is inconsistent. But if it works for her, then that's awesome.

As for the longbows and bent elbows... it's a preferred way with a straight gripped longbow because it helps absorb the shock from the bow.

I've spent a lot of time around the best archers in the world, and very very rarely do I ever see them shoot with a bent elbow. I do however see a lot of folks in local archery shops shoot that way, and "pro shop" staff that promote that style of shooting, but it's a product of them trying to sell bows that are not fit correctly to the buyer more than anything.

FDP makes several good points. But there is fluid shooting and fixed shooting. It's like the difference between making a 3-point shot on the basketball court and making a bench rest shot on a 100-yard rifle target. The basketball shot has no chance of attaining the accuracy of the bench rest shot. But very few game animals or birds on the wing are shot from a bench rest.

For the record, my bow arm elbow will not straighten completely.

At my age, everything is either bent or limp. I shoot the way I have to. I'm fairly consistent and hit my mark with fair consistency. You go your way, I go mine, we all be happy. ;-)

Recurve bowhunter Paul Schafer

Howard Hill

Brady Ellison

dragon heart thanks for posting the pics.Pics say alot with out having to explain.Both great archers with different shooting styles for sure.

Russ Hoogerhyde

There is a degree of commonality to great archery form, but it will have subtle differences based on individual physical attributes and applied purpose to the shooting.

Then there are those that do it another way...Rube Powell's form always reminded me of the way David Hughes shot.

Barebow target archery= David Hughes...The other bow arm, hands and wrist that with incredible strength

I did not know Robert Denaro was an archer.Good for him. ha ha.

So... a pointed discussion to say the least. Here's a photo of me shooting. My arm is locked but note the elbow of my bow arm. What say you? Thanks, Lance

Now how do explain Walt Wilhem?

How dare you mere mortals contradict what has been stated by the wise and all knowing.

funnier by the minute,knifeguy you have better form than walt wilhem,just joking. your form looks great,slight bend in left elbow my form is quiet similar, but i only use thumb and index finger on bow handle as if holding a pencil with the other three fingers.that works for you mine works for me. it is all good.

Just shoot your bow(s) and enjoy them when you have the chance. Life has much more important things to worry about than a bow arm argument. Trust me.

pearl drums you are right,but it was a fun thread.

pearl drums in between reading this thread i have shot 4 different selfbows hickory, black locus, elm ,american hornbeam just to see how carbon 500 and 600 aluminum arrows shoot out of them.i know what you mean about more important things i fight cancer every day, chronic lymphoma,but shooting bows, reading threads, bass fishing, playing bass,family , god are the things that keep me going for as long as i can.So i do trust you.signed a friend

I mull this over all the time for the fact that here in the upper part of the country you need to add layers of clothing for the later part of the deer season. I always figure by bending your elbow you can be inconsistent as stated above. Straight out would be more consistent and is the way I shoot. But, It screws me up when I add a heavier jacket and I have to bend my arm out so I don't hit it at the release. So I get tossed between shooting straight arm or bent. What are your guys thoughts on this?

Keep fighting the good fight, Robert. My wife and I are in a similar battle ourselves. That's why comments like the one above come out. I wish bow arm, arrow materials, gapping and instinctive were important to me, but they aren't. In the "end" none of that will matter or even be a memory.

funny how priorities change in life.we gain wisdom as we age and then we know what is going to happen,but it has been said of you that you are very good bowyer, so hang on to that, and everything else that makes you happy in this life,do not give up.best to you and your wife,and be a fighter as you have said to me. a friend

Shoot how it suits you. For me the forearm is not making a straight line with the upper arm - if it is, it is not natural. There is a "bent" there that is different from person to person. If you feel the pressure of the bow at full draw in your bow arm biceps instead triceps and back deltoid, you are too bent.

anyone can critique a shooting style,and tell you what they think you are doing right or wrong from what they have read or have learned.there are many different ways to shoot a bow with excellent end results as has been shown above,and that is what we all strive for.if you are a hunter and shoot 20yds. and in if you are doing everything right you should be shooting snuff box accuracy or close to it. if you are not you need to be working on some thing so that you can.then execute that kind of accuracy on the game you hunt 9 out of 10 times you will make humane kills.If you target shoot that is 10 ring accuracy and you will fair well at that distance.maintaining that kind of accuracy is an on going thing, but has and can be done by any of us. you just have to find your stride,bent elbow or not. it is all up to you.

Notice the bow arm off sets the distance from power line to the arrow line.

When I shot target style with a target bow and hunting bows, I made this same stance error. Very difficult to shoot while standing on steep uphill slopes shooting uphill with this stance.

Bone on bone is kind of a sham, if your bow arm is locked straight it is still offset from the power line. What 'feels like' and what 'is' are not always the same.

I look just like the Howard Hill photo except he has more hair, I even have a baggy pair of pants like he is wearing.

Heres a later pic,,,,he never changed his stance

Thanks to every one who has responded

one thing about a slightly bent bow arm, it always goes straight forward at the shot.

ron g thats funny you have a sense of humor good for you.

Bassman, Who was joking!

Ha!Ha!

It gets me in trouble sometimes, because some folks are too serious to catch on, I try to joke somewhere in every reply I do.

Laughing is better than frowning.

I have been cancer free for five years now, but they keep a close eye on me......this is no joke!

Hang in there Brother, we will keep you in our thoughts and prayers.

Lon Stanton

Slightly bent bow arm for me. I tend to torque the bow if it's straight/fully extended. The bit of bend helps me keep my shoulder dropped, and allows fot that little bit of expansion at the shot. Keeps the tension balanced. And I'm sure my draw length isn't identical shot to shot... but I do shoot better, and more consistently this way nonetheless.

This is similar to trying to teach baseball fundamentals to little leaguers. They watch baseball on tv and try to copy the style of their favorite players. The pros have so much experience that they have figured out what works best for them. The kids don’t understand that they have to learn the fundamentaly proper way first, before they find what works best for them.

MP

I bend my elbow a little when I shoot, and a lot more after I'm done shooting--especially if it's hot weather.

Knifeguy, your photo looks to me like you are shooting an Evil Dwarf Bow. Now that you have that '63 Howatt I'll expect you to hang that other sawed-off splinter up for good...and your scores to skyrocket. ;-)

crooked stix that is funny right there i am laughing while i am replying.

I like the last picture of Howard, now he is getting that shiny spot on his head. That keeps the deer blinded while you take aim.

As far as the best in the world shooting with out a bent elbow, comparing shooting styles with a bow with a lot of mass weight vs a longbow that weighs a fraction of a target rig is like apples to oranges.

Most don't learn to master light mass weight bows, especially with the current crop of experts telling us how to shoot and you can just watch them gravitate towards mass weight :)

Ronny i love that color pic of Cheif one shot Hes well in his 70's and still has the same form he had at 20

John Shultz wanted camp meat Howard said no problem got out the car strung his bow put a glove on nocked and arrow,in one fluid motion double lunged that deer .Shultz said he stepped the distance 60 paces.He also won over 200 tournaments, he also lost some tournaments.He shot bent elbow,right arm not lined up like target shooters do,shorter arrow,liked bamboo bows with a little deflex,shot a glove ,and was a master at the game of archery. Watched him shoot an elephant on utube arrow after arrow in a fluid motion spot on with his shots until the animal fell dead.It would take a target archer double the amount of time to get that many arrows in that animal.His style was much more suited for hunting,so it is like comparing oranges to lemons.The man is a legend.

Well,,,,,,yea

The debate is shooting bent arm,,,,,im a Hill fanatic as some folks know : )

But the point to me is do what works for you nomatter the style you choose Bent bow arm is not wrong,,,,its a way of shooting the bow

Hills system and thats what it is,,from grip to loose is fluid and smooth yet the mind set must be rigid It takes time and dedication to see results and must constantly be practised Thats not for eveyone,,,,,,but its not wrong more then often its misunderstood

That said theres many many other styles and techniques in shooting,,,,i dont think ines better then an other,,and what works for me might not work for you

I like Fords you like Chevy thing As long as we practice and enjoy our chosen craft it all good

I seen some shooters with straight locked bow arms and shoulders jammed up into the neck. They said they were shooting bone on bone. They had the power angle taking the correction at the shoulder. That cannot be right. There is very little side to side stability with the arm locked up like that. No one picks up a full bucket of water without bending the arm and doing close to the body. Ergonomics. I guess if one does not have the arm strength to do any different than that jammed up thing, that is what they must do. The bow arm always has to make correction from the off set from the arrow to draw arm line. Humans are not crossbow mechanics, we cannot pull a bow from a center pivot point, the bow will always be in front of the power line, the muscles pulling the bow. Tricep muscles are stronger than the stability muscles of the shoulder. I feel sorry for those with weak arms that can never enjoy that forward thrust of power when shooting a longbow properly. I guess that is why recurves are so popular.

MM that is what i said above.Watch Arny Moe and Jim Blackmon on utube teaching proper form.They both teach slight bend left arm.Of course it is not wrong even when shooting target style.Hill gripped the bow.They teach holding bow in between thumb and index finger and hand angled away from the handle of the bow so that you do not torque the bow, static type release and good follow through.I shoot that way.Works best for me.It takes more time to execute the shot on a game animal compared to Hills style, that is why i said IMHO hill style is more ideally suited for hunting.The one constant for both styles of shooting is slight bend of the bow arm.

Crookedstix-That’s one of two of my Evilist Drawf Bows! This one is a Herter’s Perfection, 46”-57#, and I shoot it just fine thank you very much. I’m just an average shooter so my “score” doesn’t change much, whichever bow I’m pulling back. LOL! And luckily I can move back and forth between my’curves and longbows with confidence that my “form” remains consistant! As for hanging up my EDB’s, it ain’t gonna happen brother! Lance

Bob

I wasnt tryn to correct you or mock,,honest Howard gripped a bow because of the bow,,,if you hold a narrow limbed high poundage ASL itll give you a good bite,,,,but if you think of the design,,it has a very small short riser and there very light compared to most recurve style bows Which tend to have a long thick riser,,,and a combo of the riser and energy stored in short wide limbs compared to the short light riser and long narrow limbs thst store energy on a longbow,,,the recurve design transfers and absorbs that energy much better then a ASL as pertaining to felt vibbs,recoil,and shock So a recurve can be held with looser grip pressures and a licked bow arm

Howard said to things i remind myself on gripping a ASL,,,,"Hold it like you'd hold a small bird in your hand,tight nuff to hold the bird,but not hard nuff that you'd crush it",,,,and "I hold my bow like i hold a suit case"

No here again everyone will interpret the latter statement differently,,but for me if you pick up an older style suitcase and think bout it,,,your hand goes naturally to a grip that goes around the handle completely and you have to squeeze it hard enough to carry the weight,,,so you have a round grip with mild pressure Blah blah blah I personally think whatever style anyone chooses for there certain weapon of choice there should have the respect for it to put effort in to learning the proper technique and to understand the mechanics of why its done a certain way Even if there not good at it right away

For myself, I tend to grip a longbow to seat it and lighten the grip as I draw, with just enough pressure so I don't drop it. I have had longbows fly loose on the shot, I needed to be a little bit tighter than what I was. However, sometimes when i am shooting at a running rabbit with the heat of the moment, I admit to squeezing the rosin out of the riser. If the bow is gripped with out torquing, the bow still shoots fine. That is one of the good things about a Hill style grip, it can have a bit of pressure without torquing it off line. My old target recurves that I had the wrist straps on, you could not squeeze them at all without affecting the shot, but then I have never shot a 290 plus score on the PAA target with a longbow either. Different tools for a different job.

mm if you are talking to me i know that.If you are talking to some one else i think they know that too.

It's wonder any of these old boys could hit anything

So, all the old as dirt guys shot straight arm and all the real bow hunters shot bent arm. :-)

I don't know what to do with my arm anymore !!

Brad!

Thats it,all this thread and ya got it in one sentence ; )

Those shots of perfect form look nice but I don't think it works if your sitting on a stool or on your tree stand seat. Standing on uneven ground or shooting under or around a tree.

fdp check out Billy Berger showing how to shoot an ishi bow on utube.I have built two of those bows, and tried to shoot that style.Talk about unorthodox.I have no idea how they shot cougars mountain goats, and all the other animals with there style of shooting, but they did.Just mentioned that because you posted a picture of Ishi.

Mountain Man, I want to thank you for posting the Masters photos,

My accuracy has been going down hill (no pun intended) since I have been trying the so called correct way of shooting a bow, the last two years.

I noticed the position of his left foot to the target and his upper arm to his body, also his first finger on his I tooth below his bottom lip, Dam I got away from that trying to emulate the way most folks shoot.

I went out to my range, positioned my self like I have been doing most of my life, in other words just like Howard, I shot five arrows at 20 yards and all were touching feathers. I'm going out tomorrow and buy some new broadheads. I am not reading this stuff anymore. I am only doing the first shot and self-bow blog.

Thanks Scott.

I couldn't post a picture because there is something wrong again.

Sweet Ron!

Craig Ekin still sell Howards broadheads at http://www.howardhillarchery.com/archery-accessories.html

Just a thought

RonG, that is the way Howard posed for that picture with the HHA promotional picture. That is NOT how he shot. John told me years and years ago, that there were two different type of Hill pictures, real ones when he was actually shooting and posed pictures. But i will add that Hill did advocate using an anchor that was correct for the shooter, since everyone has different facial structures, so does John. If I anchored that low my point on would be nearly 80 yards, it is too long now to be much help, other than a general indicator for shots under twenty yard when shooting at game. 25 yards and in, even though I know I can see the arrow, my primary aim is more instinctive. I can get enough indication that I can tell when I am going to miss and I am proven right every time that I miss. People that either do not understand Hill technique or cannot do Hill technique have very strong opinions about Hill technique. Why is that?

If you have already registered, please

sign in now

For new registrations

Click Here