It seems like the carbon arrows give the most trouble to tune to trad bows.Where is wood and aluminum is much more suited to the stick bow.Do you guys think carbon arrow manufactures will ever get serious about providing carbon arrows in the physical weights we want,spines and larger diameter shafts that are closer to the wood and aluminum we like to shoot.? Or will the continue to just put wood graphics on the arrow and try to sell it as traditions?

There primary income comes from the compound bow users, there is no incentive for them to change.

At this point, between manufactures they can't make shafts that compare spine wise, i.e. all shafts marked by the manufacture as say 500's should spine 500, they don't and they don't need to for a compound, all that needs to be done is re-adjust the arrow rest or what ever its called now,

Bob

I think you're wrong on this. Carbon arrows, like any other, are not hard to get tuned. They have a large tuning range.

This is not directed at anyone in particular.

I wonder if the people who complain about carbons have ever given them an honest try. We go thru spells here on the LW where carbons cussed and discussed. Then things settle down for a while. If you don't like something, don't use it.

I agree, just get the dynamic spine right, and they will tune like anything else.

there are a few heavier gpi shafts out there but for the most part people want lighter and smaller diameter shafts.

I have no problem to get carbons to tune to trad bows,its just a different learning curve.I find you can't compare spines between them,they don't react the same.So many try old school methods to tune like they have learned from tuning wood or aluminum and get disappointed with the results.Carbons don't come in as many different spines as wood or aluminum,I see a lot of asking with carbon is right for me? I want a 29" carbon with a 145 gr. head or point,forget about that because you may or may not find the correct carbon with those specs.When I tune my carbons I prefer to start with a full length and go from there and don't worry about the finished length.In my early days of learning to tune carbons I spent a good deal of money buying used carbons already cut to a certain length and tried tuning by adding weight upfront to weaken the spine,but that did not always work.

What Bob says especially about the spines meaning the same between manufacturers. Need some kind of standard like AMO.

For me, carbons are a breeze to tune. The weights are fine and so is the diameter(s). In fact I’m playing with some black Eagle micro diameter arrows now. I still make up woodies but I haven’t shot aluminum in 3 years or so.

Carbons are basically a wrapped matrix of resins and glue, so there can be some spots around the shaft that may not spine concentrically. For us mere mortals though, it's usually not an issue. Best thing would be to have someone with a spine meter check them and mark them so you can get the consistency.

I do think companies like Easton is working for better 360 degree spine around the shafts. It really doesn't matter much in a brick fight, as long as you know the static deflection is close to start.

Have never had any problems tuning carbon arrows been shooting Goldtips and Beman Centershots

You actually answered your own question, why would you want to use carbon, there are no benefits from it, plus I always cringe when one hits a hard object wondering when it will explode next.

Some will say aluminum bends, well wood breaks, but you don't have to worry about whether the next shot will send you to the emergency room.

Use aluminum, I found that they tune excellent and shoot tighter groups than carbon.

I don't know about now, but Byron Ferguson used aluminum.

Wood is great, but you have to work for it.

I did find one good use for the carbons I had, they make excellent plant stakes, I'm not kidding, they don't rot or corrode.

I'm not putting down carbon, they just are not for me.

The reason I made the statement I did, is I have taken a spine tester and tested shafts from various manufactures, all marked as being the same static spine and found differences of up to 15#. All shafts were tested on the same machine, by me. This should not happen.

Bob

Where they wrap the carbon together will be stiffer than the rest of the shaft, put your cock feather on the wrapped portion.

Bob when i shot wood out of my 52# recurve i had to use 70-75 wood spine arrows? expensive lesson.

I found a good use for aluminium. Once they're bent, you can shoot around corners.:)

You can't do that with carbon

Carbon don't come in as many sizes. They overlap. They also get stiff in a hurry when shortened. It makes sense they take more thought to tune. If your particular bow weight falls right with a particular spine---Easy to tune If not, it is not quite so easy. That is why we see so many loaded so heavy on the front end. Why it is either love um or hate umbut they will work.>>>----> Ken

I agree with Butchmo n Longtrad 100% carbons are easy to tune some guys just don't like change

In my original post I was not saying carbons are impossible to tune.I was just wondering if the manufactures of carbon arrows would ever design a arrow that is more stick bow friendly instead of taking a arrow designed to shoot out of compounds and instead only dress it up to look like wood.

Let me put this another way, because some of you don't understand what I'm saying. If you purchase some carbon shafts that are supposed to spine as market 600. Don't you expect to get shafts that do in fact spine 600 static spine??? Well what I'm saying is not all carbon shaft do that, some are off by as much as 15#. Yes you can probably tune them to work, however if you do so by changing the length of the arrow, you will end up with different length arrows, if you change the spine by altering the point weight, you will have different weight points. If that doesn't bother you, well so be it.

Bob

ALUMINUM

I part of the arrow making process that is overlooked with carbons. You need to find the strong side just like woods. Years back we tested four different brands of carbons on a spine tester. It was amazing to see the spine differences as we rolled the shafts. At that time Easton’s were the closest to being the same spine around the shaft. Maybe that’s improved? But I still spine my carbons to find the high side. As for tuning, I usually don’t have issues. I say that cause I got this Warf bow that has given me a headache. I tried two different spines, three different brands of carbons and ended up using some old green Gamegetters, aluminums. Go figure.

I have 4 different types of carbon arrows . One is tapered others are 400 spine and one 500 they all shoot good out of my 52# bows . I had far more trouble with aluminum and eventually quit using them and just shot wood now its wood for deer hunting and carbons for hogs and 3ds .

I have always found carbons that will tune very well in my bows. I have found them to be the least expensive arrows as i very seldom break one ( and i stump shoot quite a bit). I also really like wood, and interestingly have found it to respond very quickly to shortening, almost like carbon.

Aluminum is not for me--- in the spine ranges i need i was bending more arrows than i could afford.

I do believe many guys are shooting carbons too stiff for their bows. I have found less options in spines .700 and weaker.

Carbons do tune easy, but the next dozen DOESN'T tune the same and the previous dozen. I like to tinker but re-tuning to the next set of carbons is more of a headache to me.

Aluminum is aluminum is aluminum. Once you have your formula it never changes.

WOW what in the world are you talking about Time to do a little research I can make Arrows of the Carbon and aluminum variety tune and weight as much as wood and will work far better then woodies all day

Tradmt-thanks for responding to my post.I have to agree that we are a small minority of archers.And there for it is likely a carbon arrow manufacturer would not want to design a arrow specifically made to shoot out of a trad bow.Lets face facts,carbon arrows where designed specifically to be shot out of compounds and not out of received and long bows.Also I do shoot carbons and have tunes them well.But I find that aluminum and wood just tunes a little better .

I have to say I'm on the side that feels carbons are easy to tune- more than the woods and aluminum I've used. I lean toward larger diameter and heavier, and have no problems finding them. You do need to research the shaft properties to make sure you don't end up with a micro-diameter or light shaft if you want something larger/heavier.

x2 what shawn states, not rocket science for me either

with all due respect, the OP's observations are dated. By nearly 20 years now.

"It seems like the carbon arrows give the most trouble to tune to trad bows.Where is wood and aluminum is much more suited to the stick bow."

I honestly couldn't disagree more.

Thor, you may not want to believe it, but there are several carbon arrows that are specifically designed to meet the needs of traditional archers.

Your "facts" about carbon arrows exist only in your head.

No problem for me...however 600s have less mass weight than 500s, which means something about wall thickness, which means something about durability. I bust 600s fast, 500s almost never. 60# LB.

Like Butch said, I don't like carbon arrows so I don't use them. Also like Butch said, I have never given carbon arrows and honest try. I have never given them any try at all. My reasons are purely personal and aesthetic as is my belief that longbows and wood arrows belong together.

But over the years I have read an awful lot of pros and cons for carbon arrows. Those pros and cons haven't changed much at all over the years. And everybody who lists a negative about them will be rapidly replied to by someone refuting that negative.

I subscribe to the belief that you can be just as accurate and consistent with wood arrows as with any other arrow shaft out of a longbow. And that is all I personally care about--shooting my longbow.

Black Eagle carbons have.001 tolerance carbons available. They tune easily but are too light physically for my liking,the only reason I don't use carbons(besides being expensive). The compound lightweight arrow to gain more speed mentality no longer exists in my psyche.

Thanks guys,for all your replies.Thats the great thing about leather wall.The discussions we have.Always done with respect and in a friendly manner.Its true the carbon arrow pros and cons debate will likely continue for ever!!! Lol

Couple of points, most carbons are fibers wrapped around a mandrel and therefore don't have a stiff side.

When you spine check a shaft you simply can't rotate the shaft with the weight bearing down on the shaft. You have to remove the weight each time and rezero for straightness.

Some carbons are notoriously way out of there straightness specs. When I put one on my crester and spin it you can easily see it.

I shoot wood and cheap carbons and they both shoot better than I can.

I think that most people don't shoot well enough to see much difference. And by well enough I mean in the upper 75% of the shooters, not your average arrow flingers like us. I don't even know what the spine of my old fiberglass shafts are. They say 7. Some say 8. I don't have a spine meter so I've never checked, and because they are a wrapped shaft I suspect they would be the same as carbon in their makeup...with some spine anomalies. That said, they will group against each other at 30 yards if I'm capable of doing that. Even up to 25 yards or so the 7's and 8's will group together.

I haven't used carbons to any extent, but I have shot some. The ones I have worked well for me as far as accuracy goes, so again, I think they likely are just fine for a working man's need. I'm just a thick-headed old man who grew up on aluminum and still like, and use them...mostly. I'm cheap also and the last dozen fiberglass I bought cost me $17.00 including shipping...already feathered. I'm good for awhile, but wouldn't hesitate to try some carbons...maybe. ;)

That should read in the upper 25% of archers. I'm in that lower 75%.

".And there for it is likely a carbon arrow manufacturer would not want to design a arrow specifically made to shoot out of a trad bow"

What specifically are you wanting in a carbon arrow?

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