From: Gofish
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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On a ilf bow to get the arrow to impact lower which way would I adjust tiller more negative or positive. And will this even work and about how much difference at 20 yards will it make
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From: aromakr
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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Changing the tiller will change how the limbs react to each other. The purpose of tiller is to bring the limbs reaction at release into time with each other.
Bob
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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What aromakr said. Tiller is effectively setting limb timing. If you need to adjust impact, you need to adjust your anchor, or your aiming system.
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From: Clydebow
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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What George said. Also you can,up to a point, adjust you nock point higher, and shoot longer arrows to shorten your point on distance.
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From: olddogrib
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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I would agree sort of. But then why do folks walk the string..which is basically just intentionally mistiming the limbs to allow a "point on" aim for a multiple given distances?
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From: Jim Casto Jr
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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Yep.... raise nocking point, raise anchor, longer arrows (helps very little), shoot a heavier arrow or move your fingers down the string a little.
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From: Draven
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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I would agree sort of. But then why do folks walk the string..which is basically just intentionally mistiming the limbs to allow a "point on" aim for a multiple given distances?
They walk the string for improved accuracy - if this means detuning for one shot, so be it. If you use a fix crawl, it's a "detuning" from initial idea that the arrow nock should be close to the middle of the string and a process of tuning back the bow for that particular position of the nock arrow on the string.
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From: JRW
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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"I would agree sort of. But then why do folks walk the string..which is basically just intentionally mistiming the limbs to allow a "point on" aim for a multiple given distances?"
The purpose of string walking is to raise and lower the back end of the arrow relative to the dominant eye so as to allow the archer to be point on no matter the distance to the target. Gap shooters and instinctive aimers hold the back end of the arrow in a fixed position and adjust for various distances by raising and lowering the front of the arrow. String walkers do the exact opposite.
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From: olddogrib
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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I wasn't literally asking why people stringwalk...I was questioning why the OP got replies discounting the effect of tiller adjustment on impact point when stringwalkers intentionally use limb mistiming quite successfully and effectively to do just that. Unless I've missed something, posters for years questioning whether they could switch to 3U on bows tillered for split have been advised that simply moving the nock point could most likely compensate for however the limbs were tillered. Dewayne Martin has an excellent video on getting "point on" at your desired hunting shot distance by intentionally raising your nockset to heights purists never considered (3/4-1") and he'd be the first to tell you don't even bother to try to "tune" bare shafts at that setting. There is some point along the string where when it's drawn at that location, the limbs will load and unload in "synchronization", for lack of a better word. I don't see how one could go 1" or more above or below that point without it affecting how the arrow leaves the bow and thus the point of impact. Stringwalkers admit all the time that increased noise and vibration are acceptable trade-offs for the results they get from a facilitated aiming technique.
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From: JRW
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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"I wasn't literally asking why people stringwalk...I was questioning why the OP got replies discounting the effect of tiller adjustment on impact point when stringwalkers intentionally use limb mistiming quite successfully and effectively to do just that."
I understand. But it's not the mistiming of the limbs that changes the point on distance for string walkers; it's the raising and lowering of the back end of the arrow. They could get the same change of impact by touching the nock and simply anchoring higher or lower.
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From: Clydebow
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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olddogrib, Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. Pic one would shows the rear of the arrow at regular anchor, and the second shows the rear of the arrow while string walking. So in the second pic you have raised the rear of the arrow lowering the point. That's what changes where the arrow impacts, not using limb mistiming.
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From: 4t5
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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A more positive tiller will lower impact
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From: Avid Archer
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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http://tradtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13991
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From: JusPassin
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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Clydebow, in your second picture you are creating imbalance by lowering the draw center. Isn't that the same as changing tiller???
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From: aromakr
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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The facts remaine changing the tiller negates limb timing. And yes people string walk, have you ever done it? Yes it allows you to use the point of your arrow as a sight, but it also does not provide good arrow flight, because the limbs are out of time, you will get a lot of arrows the porpoise in flight.
Bob
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From: olddogrib
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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Not disagreeing with any of that. But if you show those same two draws focusing on the limb profiles at full draw from the side....then if the limbs are equally loaded in the first pic I'm guessing in second one the lower limb would have more radius in relation to the upper in the second. I think bowyers use a tillering tree to observe what I'm talking about and adjust it. I used to send pics to Kirk Lavender (Big Foot Bows) of my bows at full draw and he could look at the side profiles and tell me on a bow that was tillered for my shooting style if I was "heeling" the bow too much with the grip I was using in the photo. Mis-timed limbs will not return to brace height simultaneously and if that's the case I'd assume the nock point has got to be moving slightly up or down as well as perpendicular to the string.
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From: Draven
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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OCR, the elevated rest + plunger on the rig most of the time is making the detune bearable. Using long bows and deep cut past centre riser helps too. You will not see someone with a 58" bow cut before centre stringwalking. At least I wouldn't do it.
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From: Clydebow
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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Clydebow, in your second picture you are creating imbalance by lowering the draw center. Isn't that the same as changing tiller???
The pics are just to show olddogrib what JRW was explaining in his post.
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From: Clydebow
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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olddogrib, Your first post-
"I would agree sort of. But then why do folks walk the string..which is basically just intentionally mistiming the limbs to allow a "point on" aim for a multiple given distances?"
That's why I posted the picks. Yes the limbs are out of time/tune, but that's a by product of string walking and not what changes your point on. How far up and down the string you walk your hand does.
Maybe you already understood that and I misunderstood your Question?
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From: GF
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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“We're just saying if string walking causes poor timing and bad arrow flight, how is it a reasonable method of shooting?”
Methinks ‘tis because accuracy is more dependent on the shooter than the bow.
95% perfect aiming + 80% perfect flight likely trumps 80% perfect aiming + 95% perfect flight just about every single time.
And you can compensate for flight issues with fletchings; but there’s no fletch-job in the world that can cure aiming in the wrong place...
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From: Jim Casto Jr
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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"Does it really cause poor timing or is that a perpetuated myth?"
It's "mostly" a myth, especially in the short-range game most of us play (hunting & 3D).
These single string bows are nearly as sensitive as a lot of folks think they are.
:^)
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From: aromakr
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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"Does it really cause poor timing or is that a perpetuated myth?" "It's "mostly" a myth, especially in the short-range game most of us play (hunting & 3D)."
If that were true, why would a bowyer go to the trouble of adjusting the tiller?
Bob
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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My tiller is set dead even.
I have a 32 yard point on, and I tune without string walking, but then I string walk.
At my 20 yards crawl there is zero difference in arrow flight from the standard finger position for point on.
At a 15 yard crawl I get a slight (very slight) nock low dip from the arrow, but even there, and all the way down to a 5 yard crawl my broadheads still fly true to the mark.
Rick
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From: Jim Casto Jr
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Date: 19-Mar-18 |
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Bowyer can't adjust tiller a bow for a guy on the other side of the country. He gets close, then the buyer just shoots it. These single string bows aren't nearly as sensitive as a lot of folks think.
Have you ever read how Rick Welch makes adjustments to make his bows shoot where he wants, or watched Dewayne Martins Youtube videos of how he sets up his bows to shoot where he wants.
Neither of them worry much about a "perfect" tune.
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