I can relate to what your saying but there is a lot of fellas who hunt and keep their shots close that don't need archery lessons. As far as your golf example, I use to work the tenth tee and about 9 out of 10 golfers have terrible swings.lol

K

We’ve got plenty of guys here who are unapologetically satisfied with Minute-of- LP accuracy at 15 yards.

And probably not a ONE of them would even CONSIDER keeping a rifle that wouldn’t group into 3” at 100 or a shotgun that threw crappy patterns with big holes in them.

We all have a little different form as most of us picked up a bow when we were kids, started shooting without any instruction and often maintained what looks like bad form forever.

I was a snap shooter, never hit anchor, never used back tension and won several state championships and just about every tournament I shot in at one time or another, not always a win but almost always a place.

Then target panic set in.

I shoot with proper form now, do OK until TP rares its ugly head. I will never be as good as I once was when I was a snap shooter with poor form. TP keeps me from going back to being a snap shooter.

My point being; what works for most might not work for everyone.

Shoot how you like and have fun.

I actually quit the game of golf because I could never ever be satisfied with my score...and I was a very good golfer.

Archery doesn't torment me nearly as much...lol.

LT, although blunt you make a good point. (also, it's utmost not upmost, but that's the grammar nazi coming out in me).

Using the golfer analogy, if amateurs would play from the tees that are consistent with their handicap, then they aren't in fact playing the same game as the pros. This would be similar to a traditional bowhunter with poor form choosing to only take shots under 17.3 yards (the "amateur tees" if you will).

If a guy wants to shoot from the "tips" then yea, they probably should use proper technique and get a lesson or two.

Like I said, snap shooting worked for me, this is only one wall(there are two more) and a fraction of the trophies I won over the years with my bad form, some are my wife's.

At 65, I play the white tees...they fit my distance and make the game FUN. But, in golf, as in every sport I've played, I'm under a regime of contunual improvement.

The same with my archery. That said, after 50 some years of shooting, I've probably reached my apex...and I'm satisfied with where I'm at.

In all activities, I've worked to be the best of my abilities...not world class by any means, but not bad.

In my own activities, and my hockey coaching, I'm of the mind that "practice makes permanent...perfect practice makes perfect". Of course, I'm ANYTHING but perfect...lol.

While I still shoot, and hunt, my other two primary pursuits are golf and learning to play bagpipes. Believe me...pipes are the HARDEST thing I've ever taken up...my other activities pale in comparison.

My instructor is a deamon for perfection...he says 10,000 reps per embellishment to perfect. After 8 moths, I've transitioned from the practice chanter to pipes...I'm gonna do this.

I play golf to about a 10 handicap...just celebrated my retirement by getting fitted for new irons.

My bows are good to go, I'm happy with what I've got.

My best ever indoor 20yrd score is 293 before tp set in. at one time my tp was so bad I'd pick a knot on a tree draw & hold on the knot & UNWILLINGLY destroy an arrow. It would drive me crazy I could sqeeze sqeeze sqeeze the trigger on a 300 win mag all day long. But a bow at a target #!*:! (Luckily) for me when I'm shooting at animals I go into predator mode & I'm so fixated on the animal that the shot just happens without my conchence mind messing things up...I know some can't understand this but im not a good target shooter but have killed 14 deer in a season with a bow

Wow are you saying i should not deer hunt with a rifle inless it can shoot 1 min at a 1000 yards because that would be the best. are we should all lay down are wood bows for a crossbow because we would sure shoot better and farther. That would be striving for the best. Traditional bow is no longer the best most accuret equipment now a days. Is this what your saying ? Sofball groups at 20 yards will always kill deer.

Nice.

"don’t go shoot a deer in the ass because your Lazy."

Those 11 words summarize the only thing in your post that is worth being concerned about. How a man chooses to enjoy a hobby or pastime is his business as far as his level of skill is concerned. Many people are very serious about all the fundamentals of whatever they are doing and wanting to be the absolute best they can be. Other people do certain things purely for the fun and relaxation and aren't as concerned about absolute perfection.

As the often quoted Dirty Harry said: "A man's got to know his limitations." If someone knows that they are only capable of a ten yard shot consistently and limit themselves to their ability then I would have no objection. As a matter of fact I have more of a problem with people who think they have this archery thing figured out so they take 40 yard shots. What they are capable of on the target range doesn't necessarily translate to the hunting ground.

Using the golf analogy again,..because I think it's relevant, no two golfers swing exactly the same.

If you look at Jim Furyk swing, you'd think he'd never have been able to rise to the level he did. Trevino and Palmer had awful looking swings, but they sure got it done.

Not everyone has to have a picture perfect swing like Jordan Spieth.

There is a lot more to hunting than proper shooting form.

Eric, some of the largest (including THE largest) archery trophies I have, were won when I was short-drawing and snap- shooting.

Then I learned how to shoot properly. Ironically, the trophies I won after that are smaller, but much more meaningful to me.

Shoot how you want and have fun. I've stopped doing many things over the years because I've gotten tired of experts telling me I'm not doing it right. If your striving for the upmost accuracy you need to put your longbow up and grab a compound or crossbow. I can shoot 2 in groups at 20 yards with my Treadway. I don't use back tension or the proper stance. And I don't shoot with guys if they start telling me "the proper way to shoot is...".

What makes a good bow hunter is consistently getting within your (efectiv range) of the game persued. To me getting close to critters is more important than how well I shot when practicing. I have killed deer @ 50yds but prefer them less than 20 & usually set up with 15yrd shots in mind

As I said before... the better I shoot, the more fun I have.

Kinda makes me wonder what some people have to say about Hollywood types who become rich & famous playing cops or soldiers and clearly have no business handling firearms. Does Competence matter, or is it good enough to just look the part??

yes it's about accuracy and proficiency but that doesn't mean shooting exactly as you or anyone else does. I do agree that the above is true for many people but definitely not all. I watch my brother who is a very good shot, and I've always admired his form,ie full draw, solid anchor, holds and good release. And I've even spent countless hours trying to copy his great process, but I just shoot better my way. I draw and aim threw my draw process, when my finger touches my face I pull through and release. I don't hold an anchor. Now, shooting my way which I guess is a form of snap shooting is not for everyone but it works for me, and by works for me I mean I won almost every 3D shoot I ever entered in the last 20 years, and I've killed a lot of animals and haven't wounded any. I will admit I've shot with a hand full of snap shooters who were very inconsistent and they probably should go back to the drawing board rather then break 50 bucks worth of arrows every time they shoot a 3D . But not everybody.

Just another pot stirring thread !!!

Just another pot stirring thread !!!

LOL!...a funny thing happened too me at the TBOF State Championships a weekend ago where I started out..

"Struggling To Maintain Proper Form"

cause no matter how hard I tried?...it seemed mother nature and the guy that set-up the shots had it in for me.

If it wasn't..."Tree Limbs getting in the way of My Bow Limbs"?....it was the idiot who placed the stake that my foot needed to touch 5-6 feet away from the hole I needed to thread my arrow through! LOL!

I remember I had to stretch out my short legs for this one...

??? Point of this Mr. Tension of the liquid kind? Remember use "an" before words that start with a vowel or people won't take you serious. Even if you did, I still can't see the productivity of this thread.

LT is preaching in his topic just one single thing: LEARN to shoot. How you will actually shoot after that is not his problem."Pot Stirring thread" is just for the ones that are not too good at seeing the obvious and fall for "lazy" word.

Ya, who ever said "I'm only a hunter so I dont need......" Who?

Just another pot stirring thread is right.

Wow, you guys need to get outside more.

The truth is there is more than one way to shoot a bow and shoot it well.

One reason some folks get all worked about learning some of the "proper" aspects of form is because it gets made WAY over complicated.

Take for example back tension. Back tension is an automatic thing that happens when you draw a bow. Contrary to popular opinion, it is physically impossible to hold a bow out in front of you, and draw it with your arms. The minute you start moving the string, you are using your back. So why over think it? You oly lose back tension when you stop drawing.

Anchor points. Nobody can tell you where the best anchor point is for you. They can only suggest what works for them. Your physical strength, facial structure, and body type all dictate where the ideal anchor point is for you.

Stance is the same way, as is 3 under versus split, aiming versus "instinctive" and on and on.

And then there was that other guy that lashed seats too the ground...

sometimes facing the wrong direction...

And there is a guy who sees that your upper body position is the same in both pictures Jinks.

and it wasn't until I said screw form and started just doing whatever it took to get my arrow too the mark that I began getting great hits somewhat regularly but every now and then?...there were those shots that permitted proper stance and form...but in the woods?...they were far and few between...

Ian Anderson taught himself to play flute, and did it all wrong...which is probably why Jethro Tull never sold any records, LOL.

What is the OP talking about? He probably shoots a crossbow.

Draven: In the woods?..."Form"...is from the waist up. ;)

'Proper stance' is just one part of good form. The thing about having good form is, you *know* when one part of it, like stance, is compromised, so you can adjust and compensate.

Being forced out of a 'proper' stance by terrain or course design makes me bear down harder on the other elements of form, the ones I still have control over.

Proper "form" helps most folks shoot consistently, and it is constancy that scores. As has been pointed out, many many guys and gals over the years have utilized shooting styles that were quite ugly, but they used them consistently and became very good at it.

I think the OP was just pointing out that if you can't shoot well and want to improve then good form may be a path to follow.

Case in point, I had a good friend in MN who made his own self bows, and not too well at that. League night saw him arcing arrows all over the place.

All that being said, every year he seemed to take one of the largest bucks in the area. That man could hunt, and knew how to do so within the limitations of his equipment and shooting style.

Jinks, what a lot don't know is this: When practice, do the things perfect. In action is another matter. Force an archer to shoot something that can hurt him if he doesn't kill it and see how quick he will go back to practice.

Just curious where you got all the information about hunters not caring about form? Jinkster, enjoyed the photos. I do most of my practice on hunting stool because that is where I hunt. My son Klent taught me how to shoot correctly then he laid on his belly and consistently hit the bullseye. That made me determined to learn to hit my target. But I'm just an old 68 year old deer hunter that hunts with a recurve and never lost a deer wounded by arrow. Just lucky I guess.

Chris wake up the dreams over. your not in the Olympics dude. come out of it and come back and enjoy the good old boys that didnt have a coach but put meat on the table . be one of us you dont half to look like a ballerina to shoot a bow.

LT: I never thought, said or inferred any such thing but if you are still running through a shot sequence while bent around a tree?...that is laughable and what I might think is you should get out of the woods and back on the practice range until your sequence becomes..."ingrained" LOL!

But what I'm thinking right now is you are very bored on a fine Saturday morning...great time to get some ingraining in...don't ya think? ;)

I'd have never thought that some crochedy old trad bow shooters would be that concerned with proper grammar. Just for the record I quit school 1/2 way through the 9th grade cause I was more interested in smoking pot hunting fishing & working to be able to afford to. So please forgive any spelling flaws I have in the future

Not the point timex. It was to emphasize the validity, or lack there of, of the thread. I for one could care less. Folks here are getting to be too thin skinned. I'm spending less and less time here because if it. I'm going to go do something more productive like clean my clean shop. nybubba

I don't care for the grammar police either. I read the OP and understood it perfectly...of course I'm much smarter than everyone so I guess I have to take that into consideration.

nybubba, I believe what you meant to say is that you could NOT care less. :o) Most everyone wrongly says "I could care less" which really means that you DO care and could be less interested than you presently are. Just an old crotchety trad bow shooter who paid attention in English class. :o)

Hey "Liquid", I know this thread is directly aimed at my earlier post regarding my TP? Why don't you take a frickin chill pill? Come down off your high horse while you're at it. We all do archery for various reasons with various expectations and results. We don't all have to do it YOUR way! I don't judge you...so don't judge me.

DM that's funny right there. Just made my day. You're absolutely right. I couldn't care less that you publicly called me out on it. I deserved that. nybubba

You boys that are fighting over grammar need to get laid. The English language evolves so rapidly...silly to fight over it.

Why do people get their feelings hurt by some faceless opinion they read?

I know I won't convince 95% of you on here of anything. However, if you post about being frustrated with your shooting you are inviting critique and/or well- intentioned advise. Not just you, Curt- hundreds of guys nearly every day.

LOL...you're alright nybubba. :o)

I usually avoid these threads but I read every post. Why are we in such a divisonary state on the LW? Let me say that every day I don't learn something feels like a day wasted BUT--what is wrong with having fun.There are a number on here in their 70's and 80's think about it. Arthritis vision etc. When I was a younger man I investigated the Olympics. They shoot 100's of arrows every day. No thanks. That would be work. I don't want to make a job out of my hobby/fun. I will match my kill to wound ratio with anyone.Certainly no expert but I know my limitations. I love to shoot in the man cave and in the backyard. A paper plate or a deer with in 15 yards is going to have a hole in it if I release an arrow. At 76 the last 8 deer and hogs fell to my new 44# bow--easy tracks.Yes I am very happy when I don't miss the plate or wound an animal and only shooting 25 arrows at a time. I am also happy for the 3D,Vegas,oly,etc, winners. Try being happy and helpful for all. It might grow on you. My 2¢ worth and then some.>>>----> Ken

... they been at it longer then our country have been in existence...

so what is proper form?

Good point Dao!

Arrow under the eye - you can't pretend he can't see the arrow Straight bow hand and correct oriented elbow Very good hand grip on the bow - pressure on the meaty part under the thumb and hand relaxed Body oriented toward the target both eyes facing it String hand elbow is pulling in the right direction - anyone is seeing high elbow?

THAT's proper form in my book for the task at hand.

PS Deep down in the dirt of fundamentals the "target" archer is having the same stance with the "hunter" archer. But some can't get it.

I think we all should be opened others methods and not think that one guy is a bad archer because he doesn't hold for 10 seconds staring down the tip of the arrow. To each his own, I liked Eric's comments. Listen to some podcasts and get a feel for what other guys think and say, it will change your mind about who is ignorant.

Hey, where's that STAR system ?

Very interesting to see he don't have a 1/2 turkey on the end of that big arrow either. He does appear to be short drawing with a floating anchor but maybe he is not at anchor yet. It would be interesting to compare techniques with him and see his capabilities.I love to see how other people do things.>>>--->Ken

Not my falt. Darn animals I hunt won't get out of them mountain woods so I can set myself up right for a good shot.

Well stated Liquid Tension.

What you guys failed to notice is the picture Dao posted is on a 3D course. Just trying to lighten things up.

Olympic archers usually shoot around 4-500 arrows a day. At my competitive peak a few years ago when I was in my mid teens, I was shooting 200 arrows a day, and it never felt like work to me, just something to look forward to. Trad, I don't have to practice as much-- why? Because I'm not trying to shoot a ten on a fita 40cm target at 18m every time or hit a paper plate all day at 70. I'm content with being in the gold at 20.

LT. You make a valid point. Given that it's been made countless times before, it does look like trolling. Regardless, your message might be better received if you didn't first call people stupid.

Orion, I agree with you, but LT can "liquid" on his thoughts. He is definitely trolling and that is not necessary for a decent post.

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