Ok folks, I have dealt with TP for years. I shoot split finger instinctive, and I do NOT see or reference my arrow whatsoever. Please don't try and change or lecture my style of shooting. I am strictly a bow hunter, no 3D. I practice drawing and anchoring at night in the house, and I can blind bale or shoot up close with the best of them. But when I move back 10 - 15 yards, I cannot hold at my anchor and I snap shoot, even short draw. Is there any hope? I value your input, thank you.

Yes, there is hope--been there done that. If you're willing to put in the time (months/maybe years) to be an overcomer.

If you want to be able to function while you're working on it, change sides. I did and the darn stuff wasn't there on the left side. So... I could function and continue hunting while I worked on the right side.

If you're willing, I'll be glad to tell you what I did.

Well, it's 100% mental and that is what you have to get past. If it's that serious, then maybe get hold of Joel Turner. He probably has some videos that could help.

Yes sir, George, Joel's instruction has helped a LOT of folks-- including me. His grip sear psycho trigger has worked miracles for me.

I reluctantly tried a clicker when I suffered with the same problem.......wish I tried it a long time ago.

Give a clicker a try, it may help you too!

I’ve never experienced TP, so I don’t know what’s like. When my lack of form gets squirrely, I concentrate on my breathing. In thru the nose slowly as I draw back the arrow, hold breath at anchor, out thru my mouth on release. That really works for me. Oh yeah, eyes closed 2-3 ft in front of a target butt. Definitely by myself, my brother would have a field day harrassing me if he was there..right Chuck?

For a start get yourself a clicker. You will instantly be able to hold at full draw. Learning how to get through the clicker at full draw is what you will need to learn. Even though I wasn't using the clicker correctly when I started it still improved my shooting. It allowed me to get to anchor and AIM. It showed me what I could do IF I AIMED the arrow and let the shot happen when I was ready. Again, it is a place to start.

You could try practicing your draw sequence, coming to anchor, aiming, focusing hard on getting into full back tension, then let down, Don't even shoot the arrow!

Target panic is a real thing and some people are paralyzed by it. You really need to get help from someone who can focus on you and what may be at issue.

I had the same problem! I too reluctantly went to a clicker. It made a HUGE difference for me. Give it a try or some other kind of draw check. You might be surprised.

Dropping my poundage and making it a point to hold overly long is what helped me. I mean holding for a long time, like a 15-20 seconds, (my normal is just about 2-5 if that long).

Another thing that is not often mentioned but is something that can help is visualizing. Taking a few minutes when you have the free time and visualize you are at 20yds, go through the motion and do it right in your head. Heck if by yourself do the motion as if you had a bow in your hand. :)

Have you tried a significantly lighter bow? Something you know you can hold a long time

Have you tried a significantly lighter bow? Something you know you can hold a long time

I see this as fear of results. If you are good at five yards, shoot five yards. I do it all the time. I'm good at ten and fifteen past twenty I pretty much suck. That doesn't bother me.

Been dealing with it for 30 years lately been practicing on my chickens without releasing an arrow. Their all over the yard @ varying distances & if I accidentally shoot 1 my whife will kick my but. It has helped me

I am with some of the guys above. Get a Clicker! It will help you. Look up Ironmindbowhunting.com that is Joel Turners website. He has helped 100's of people. A clicker is the quickest way to start. If you start now you will be ready to hunt this fall. There has been lots of people kill deer and other animals using a clicker. It works.......

Joel Turners online course really helped me. Give it a try.

Curt

Sent you PM...

Chris

The TP is likely caused by the fact that you don't see the arrow, or something else as you draw.

If you are a "burna hole" shooter, your brin is telling your body to turn the arrow loose as soon as it looks like it is on line with the target.

There are numerous ways to overcome the affliction. But they all take some time.

If your form is right, no matter your aiming system, snap shooting or not, the arrow should be in the target or very near to it. Work on form as a whole, not on " drawing and anchoring at night in the house, and I can blind bale or shoot up close with the best of them." Make a mental switch: You don't shoot with the best - since at 10 or 15 yards you are nowhere near them. You are a result driven shooter. Stop this way of thinking and become a shooting sequence shooter. I don't care how it looks like that sequence, but force yourself to do it every time anytime. TP is possible due to lack of mental discipline reflected in the execution. Aiming system or whatever you don't see are not part of the problem.

First of all, are you shooting your master eye?

Joel Turner x 1000

You can Band-Aid TP with a clicker or Joel Turner, but your not willing to give up the cause of your TP so no you can't CURE it.

I'm not going to lecture, but if anyone wants to know why PM me. When I took the Rod Jenkins class one half the class had TP from the same reason as Curt.

Bowmania

Whether a person does, or does not use their master eye has no bearing on TP. TP is caused by a mental short circuit.

Draven is right about a shot seuence. As long as you complete the sequence every time, you can over come the problem

Also, the starting over with a new system isn't a bad idea. And no, the burn a hole and shoot method isn't the best method for hunting. It's no better, or no worse than any other method.

try shooting 80 to 100 yds if you don't get to anchor you will not be able to group arrows and the arrow will be in your sight physics lol this helped me a lot and holding vertical bow really helped me bury my anchor i'm a snap shooter as well and purdy good out to about 25 yds try it

Curt you will probably need to change your sequence. Instead of starting the burn a hole aim followed by a touch and go release, change the whole sequence to anchoring first, getting the arrow lined up, refine the aiming and release etc... If you keep trying to shoot the way you may never get over it. At first you may collapse and flinch all over the place wanting the release but it will go away over time. Use a sight if you need to, you can always remove it later.

Buy a cheap compound.

Before y'all bash me, try it. Fred Bear was a snap shooter and tried one of his compounds on a hunt but just couldn't do it because the breaking of the wheels prevented him from shooting his style.

Find a decent two WHEEL compound from the late 80s or early 90s and give it a go. I bought a Bear Black Bear cp off craigslist for $25. I ended up taking off the limbs to ILF warf it, but before I disassembled it I shot with it some off the shelf. It had me drawing to anchor and holding from my normal snap shooting. I Robinhooded a nice carbon arrow at 15 yards with it. Groups were tight. I went back to my recurves and the draw and hold transferred right over. My stickbow groups are now tighter. I found another old wheel bow and bought it for form practice.

It works! I Robinhooded another arrow with the second cp bow using a Bear Weather rest. The bow is a PSE Laser II. THE WHEEL BOW IMPROVED MY STICKBOW ACCURACY! It forces you to drawn and hold. Neither bows I mentioned had sights.

A clicker on a light draw weight longbow has done wonders for my shooting. You

"But when I move back 10 - 15 yards, I cannot hold at my anchor and I snap shoot, even short draw. Is there any hope? I value your input, thank you." Maybe moving back to far in one go. Edge back a step, shoot. Half a step, shoot. Try to sneak past yourself.

Read "Instinctive Archery Insights" by Jay Kidwell Ph.D. On the cover it reads, "Accelerated Learning Through Applied Psychology Cure Target Panic".

Joel Turner's "Iron Mind" dvd really helped me, a 40+ year TP archer. Best money I spent on archery. He teaches a "process", and while it won't cure you, it will make drawing, anchoring, aiming, and finally releasing something you can control. I tried a clicker, but without having a "process" I would cheat and long term it did not help me.

Ever see an elephant in a circus picking up a teak log that's two feet in diameter and 20 feet long. He picks it up holds it over his head and puts it down. It must weigh a ton, yet he picks it up again and holds it over his head. EVERONE is impressed.

But you start looking around and you see that his foot is chained to a wooden stake in the ground that's two inches in diameter. Why doesn't the elephant just break that stake?

Well, when the elephant was very young his trainer chained him to that two inch wooden stake. That young elephant tried for 5 days to pull his foot out of that chain or break that stake. After 5 days he just gave up.

Then the elephant grew and got stronger and got stronger and grew, BUT AN ELEPHANT NEVER FORGETS!!!

I think that the OP has a little elephant in him. Not just the OP, but a lot of adults in general. There's so many that Einstein is quoted as saying, 'the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.'

OP's self-image remembers when he could hold on that target and hit it without a thought in the world. What he didn't realize was that his form and aiming was going to lead him to TP. His subconscious has such control over his self-image that he's never going to get to those old days. IF he did make a couple of good shot in a row, his self-image would feel uncomfortable. It feels the TP is the norm, the comfort zone, and in a few more shots "I'M BACK". Plus he keeps practicing the TP shot over and over. Once TP is your comfort zone it's going to take a drastic change to get rid of it. Curt I really mean anyone with tp.

He actually has part of the cure in his opening statement, but it will never work without the drastic change. The brain is a very powerful 'weapon' and that's why TP is so hard to break. If you really think about it, it's like a mental illness.

I believe that oly coaches build their whole training process to keep the brain going from #1 in the sequence to #2 to #3 etc to keep the subconscious from running ahead and fixating on something that can mess up the shot.

I know that Curt won't believe I'm strictly a hunter, but most here know that.

Bowmania

My buddy had the same problem and finally did a Joel Tunner course and switched to a clicker has has become way better than he ever was with out a clicker. Works well for some people.

"1st off knowing your Sequence is breaking & still shooting @ 15 yards is making it worse. If you Bale with your current defective Sequence also a complete waste of time. Only one cure & it’s a ton of work. You have to completely rebuild & ingrain your Sequence one step @ a time. After you do that you start on the Bale slowly,very slowly ,eventually getting to a Bridge program. If u fail @ the Bridge & you will back to the Bale. I’ve seen no other way for archers to beat panic. Len Cardinale or Rod Jenkins one of his students. Absolutely no targets for a long time. Good Luck"

That needed repeated; to my notion, it's the ONLY way.

Barebow shooters as a group seem to be the last ones to admit that it's best to have a non-anticaptory trigger in the shot sequence, especially for target shooting.

Oly uses a clicker Compound has several different releases to accomplish this Rifle shooters use light triggers and pull slowly so they can not anticipate the shot.

Joel does a great job of explaining and teaching shot control. Not just to archers but is teaching SWAT teams. He also gives options for the barebow archer for triggers.

"What he didn't realize was that his form and aiming was going to lead him to TP." It's way more complicated than this - there are too many compound shooters out there with TP to just spit words like "form and aiming" on a traditional site to be credible reasons of TP. When I read the post two things popped out: - Contradictory statements - No is the centre of the thinking. Unless he doesn't solve these real issues he will not get rid of TP no matter what clickers or "feathers to nose" he will use. He should look at himself like he is another person, analyze and accept things he sees. TP is the result of not accepting things.

I just watched a little boy, struggling shooting his bow, at am youth shooting at the club,,,,,, his father was with him, and he was forcing that little guy about 11 years old, to shoot right handed, using a hat to cover that left eye,,,,,

talk about frustrated and target panic, all together, I could see it, in his eyes, and his snap shots,,,,, He is trying to fight his brain, which is trying to adjust......

It was obvious he was left eye dominate,,,, what a shame, not my place to say anything, but it does add to the target panic problem, seen it too many times................

I just shook my head

Learn to shoot like Rick Welch, touch the feather and hold,hold,hold.

In reference to the little boy with cross eye dominance. If the father would take the cover off his left eye, and let him keep both eyes open and looking at the target, the issue would disappear completely.

When you have both eyes open, the dominant eye automatically takes over. It's a natural occurence that you can't change unless you impede the vision in that eye.

I agree that there is more to it then just slapping on a clicker or using the feather to the nose. Bottom line is you need a shot sequence that you have complete control of. The clicker is the part of the process that helps to keep the brain from anticipating the shot and running away with the shot.

What you are thinking about as you run your sequence is very important.

I know there are a archers that don't need this. Great for them.

The source of the problem is you're trying to shoot the arrow. That's the bow's job. Your the archer. Since you've got a phobia at this point, it might help to stop feeding it. Instead, get a very light bow, some properly spined and length arrows to match, and start off at at least 50 yards away, longer if you have a place to shoot 75,100, etc. At that distance, the flight of the arrow becomes a distinct event that you are not involved in. The zen of watching that arrow is liberating. You can hold that light bow at full draw for 15 seconds, feeling the wind across your face, the position of your anchor, your elbow, your grip, your breathing, all the while your mind's eye is looking at that bale WAY down range and calculating whether you need to raise a click or two, lower a click or two, likewise left or right for the windage, and when you hit the bale the first time, that's a VICTORY. With each shot, you become more and more detached from shooting the arrow, and instead you become more curious and focused on how that bow in your hands is going to shoot the arrow with your instructions. You're not likely to hit the bullseye any time soon, much less fill it up with 6 arrows, but you will get closer and closer on average and in the meantime you will be having a ball and Mr. TP will be gone down the road.

Lots not theories here. Pretty entertaining at least. I think what frustrates some is that they feel the need to tell someone to do things their way( with the assumption that it is the only correct way), and that person chooses not to.

Of, rather than not.

I get upset when I read these threads, just a bad feeling inside about not being able to address all the ideas presented. The drama does have some entertainment value though. lol

I wish that only people who actually have TP or are doing something to cope or overcome it would give out advice or talk about their experience with same.

Some get on these threads and say things that have no basis in reality concerning TP . TP is not panic, TP has nothing to do with target shooting. The very name it has been given is disturbing and misleading.

All I know is what I've experienced and seen in person. Results I've had and seeing results in others.

At the Joel Turner clinic I went to where I got to meet him personally and also Tom Clum, owner of RMS gear who is a Level 4 archery coach, there were compound shooters, target shooters, gap shooters, instinctive shooters, hunters only, and many who also shot firearms. They did not care what method you used to aim because that does not have anything to do with the problem.

They gave explanations and exercises to show cause and help to overcome the affliction. It is pretty simple, you just have to make some very serious decisions about shooting and carry them out.

Meeting the different folks and learning their individual quirks and styles and then seeing the transformation in them in just a few hours was very cool.

Plus, both of those men are just down to earth guys who are dedicated to helping the trad archery world. So glad I got the opportunity.

I think your target panic is similar to anticipation of recoil with handgun shooters. I've fixed many shooters with this issue, temporarily and many more that bought in to my madness. I would recommend starting over with very low weight equipment and no expectations. Don't advance in poundage until you master the weight you are drawing with ease, every time. Slow increase with a mindset that you control the release. I would avoid any swing style shooting until the issue is corrected. I would recommend an archery coach that forces you to comply with sound fundamentals.

Pm sent

Now that you have all poured out your souls, have you noticed the OP has not come back to comment....

I know I wouldn't wish the darn stuff on anyone. It's nothing less than a demon from the pits of hell.

I did notice a couple things....

no one actually gave him any specific, useful help.

Which leads me to think there's a lot of talk but not much real knowledge here pertaining to his original question.. otherwise he would have gotten some useful help.

So, Why should he come back???

Chris

I did notice a couple things.... no one actually gave him any specific, useful help.

Which leads me to think there's a lot of talk but not much real knowledge here pertaining to his original question.. otherwise he would have gotten some useful help.

So, Why should he come back???

Chris"

Actually I gave him specific details: Stop thinking you are a good shot because you hit the target at 5 yards. Stop judging your shot quality/form based on result Stop drawing and hold the bow without really understanding holding is not your problem. You did not learnt and ingrained a shot sequence, you shoot by feeling Stop fooling yourself that you are better than you really are and face the reality first. After that you can Start practicing a repeatable sequence Ingraining a sequence it means you are doing it so many times that you stop thinking about it, but you are aware of what you are doing! Not thinking is not an excuse for poor shooting. These were for free, some ask money.

Joel Turner's system will fix the short drawing problem instantly if you work the program as he says. It will not cure the TP at all. It is a bandaid but it works. Joel doesn't talk about form much. He is mainly concerned with the mental aspect and controlling your thoughts during the shot. It works. I can now hold all day and let down at any time during the shot process. My actual form needs work but the "band aid" for being able to hold at full draw has worked to allow me to enjoy shooting again. I recently read a book called "Free Throw" by DR Tom Amberry. He mainly deals with how to shott free throws. He set the world record by shooting over two thousand free throws in a row without missing. Anyway, the book deals with basketball, particularly shooting free throws but once you read it, you will quckly see that his program will work with almost any sport. Joel employs the use of a "mantra" in his program and Dr Amberry does as well. That part really intrigued me. That just tells me that they both realize the use of the mind is a very important tool in dealing with these things. I'm no expert on shooting by any means but I can say with certainty that if you employ Joel's system that you will be able to hold at full draw for as long as you want. He has some youtube videos that will give you an idea of what he does. I never took his course but I talked with him on the phone and watched his you tube videos and my shooting improved by alot just by being in control of the shot. I got sick of the "drawing without shooting" drills because they didn't work long term for me. I tried blank bale, low draw weight, and other things. It is a mental problem and Joel's system addresses that very issue. Yes, what he advocates will not "cure" you but I promise that it will allow you to hold at full draw without shortdrawing and snap shooting.

I gave some good advice = if you shoot your wife's chickens she's gonna kick your butt. so practice holding on the chicken

PS The sad part of the reality is those "Stop ..." are mental/character things that were built since the childhood and are very hard to override. Easy to say, hard to do it. That's why TP is never cured, is just hold in check.

Yes, there is hope. Start shooting a sighted compound. It will teach you proper mechanics. Meaning force you to reach anchor and to aim. Then, when you do shoot your trad bow, only shoot it a little. TP with any weapon is a mind over matter variable. Train your mind and body to achieve a shot sequence with the weapon you choose and, you then become very deadly with that weapon.

Most important is not to over shoot your trad bows. All this junk about having to shoot a lot has done more to ruin the average trad shooter then it has ever done to improve them. IF you are truly craving to shoot, then shoot. But, don't do it day after day unless you are improving. Because your mind gets bored easily. TP soon to follow. What separates the best from the average is their mindset about shooting the right way. That leads to a much better ability. Because they improve and when they don't, they lay it down and regroup before "pushing through it". If you make it fun and, make it a learning experience every time you shoot, Target Panic will not happen to you ever again. God Bless men

There's some saying that OP didn't get any specific advise. Liquid Tension followed by Jim Casto gave what I'd call pretty specific advise. Not enough info specifically, though.

Not that that advise would work for the OP - he doesn't want to change. That's why I stayed away.

Here's the real key to that advise. According to Rod Jenkins it takes 21 days to break a bad habit and replace it with a new habit. I've found some info that says 30. If you've had TP for 10, 20, 30 years, what's another 9 days?

The feather to the nose is not a cure. THe problem with it is that people tend to move their head forward to meet the feather and that destroys accuracy. So in my opinion is don't want to work on a cure use a clicker. It's still better than where they were.

I forget who mention Tom Clum. He has the same answer that LT and JC have. IT's very hard but it worked for me.

Bowmania

woodsman,

In the second post in this thread, I suggested there was hope and offered to tell him what I've done. I figured it was so detailed there was no use to try to go into on the forum. I'd gladly share PM's or telephone numbers. If he was interested, all he needed to do was ask--he hasn't respond to me or anyone else.

I want to thank everyone for all the input, opinions, and pm's. I am so overwhelmed with all the info received. Just wanted all of you to know I appreciate your info. Thank you

woodsman, the OP asked for "input" for his specific problem. He got a lot of OPEN suggestions as to what could help him.

YOU posted: "I did notice a couple things.... no one actually gave him any specific, useful help.

Which leads me to think there's a lot of talk but not much real knowledge here pertaining to his original question.. otherwise he would have gotten some useful help."

What advise did YOU give? You only sent the OP a PM. If you have any "useful" help, why don't you post it here OPENLY so others can see what you have to offer?

It IS absolutely curable, doesn't have to take 50 years and you don't have to gap shoot or switch to lefty. Don't have to hold at draw and hold for 30 minutes! I have had it for 30 years. It's like being a recoveriing alcoholic. ( I'm not one but it must be similiar because it will always be in the background) 1. Get a bow that is much lighter than what you're shooting now. I dropped from 60# to 47# when I finally caved in years ago. Maybe go to 40#'s even. I have killed Elk with a 46# LB, Moose with 48# LB and multiple deer with a 40# recurve. I will hunt with any bow in that range, (lighter the better always!) and my shoulders are better for it. So is my head and my shooting. 2. With the light bow DECIDE (you can and will!) you will "touch' your anchor every shot. No a sin if you don't bury your finger to your tonsils! Just touch same spot every time. Touch anchor! 3. Quit the session if you start short drawing or get tired. Your brain will get tired before your muscles do. 4. Set a goal just to get better one month a at a time, one season at a time. 5. Don't get mad at yourself ever because you are recovering! 6. Set your own goals and rules and lose all the crap about perfect anchor, back tension etc. Just have good form and touch your anchor. Im 3 under and TOUCH my index finger to the corner of my mouth. If you should snap shoot and you will, next shot do better and TOUCH anchor. 7. Do we seriously believe the Indians whose lives depended on their shooting called a coach or bought a book because everything wasn't perfect according to the Stickbow perfectionists and critics in the tribe? 8. Accept that this will take time and get better every season. Work on this all winter and spring. 9. Once the hunting season begins keep the same rules but don't dwell on this. Hunt and love it. After season work on getting better. My long time hunting partner has wrestled with this off and on for years and he manages to kill plenty of animals every year. He has learned his way of managing it very well. Best to you on the journey!

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