Heard “testimonials” at a recent archery show on HECS, saw videos too. Not impressed as cameras can look like anything. Anybody here use it and have stories?

I call B.S. on HECS, Ozonics, Scent Block, $30.00 each broadheads, art camo, fake trees for rubbing, and more.

Skip, I answered your PM, and you can feel free to quote it in this topic if you want to.

I kinda figure it's like most other things you use. You either know what to do, and how to give it a fair shake, or you're to dumb to know the difference if there is any.

OK, yeah - LOL X 1000000000000000000000000000000

Rick

$30 a piece broadheads exist and they work, but they work no better than many broadheads that are a fraction of the cost. That is what I call B.S. on. Art camo is the picture of the woods camo. It works, until you move, just like any other clothing. Specifically to HECS, I have never used it, but do not believe the hype. I have been within a yard of a sketchy whitetail buck. He did not know I was there, I was excited, he did not sense the increase of exciting electrical vibes I was pumping out. I have been way too excited, way too close to too many animals that did not know I was there, without an HECS suit to block my electovibes, so I don't believe the hype. On the one incident of the back a few feet away from me, and he was there for a few minutes, I was also not using ozonics, any scent block clothing or pretty art camo. We don't need 90% of the crap the industry tells us we need.

Got to agree with Peco.

We've gotten away with a lot of movement while wearing camo like ASAT or Onca Gear. Turned completely around on a bull under twenty yards and killed him, without the bull blowing out. Bull was looking at us, not noticing us. Say what you will about camo, but I know it works.

Didn't the courts throw out law suits because, I think it was Rutgers University, prove Scent Block worked??

Lots of more experienced hunters have had amazing experiences while using the HECS system. And these guys ain't paid or given products to use. Is it so easy to bash a product and have no real world experience while using it? To some guys, I guess it is...

I bet the amazing results of the experienced hunters, would of been the same had they not been wearing HECS suits. No way to prove it. The key is that these guys are experienced and know what they are doing. They have had amazing results without the suit, and will again if they don't wear it.

What is of interest to me is how well it appears to work with small game/rodents. Every person with an open mind relates that squirrels and birds pay little attention to them. That may indicate a certain level of doing what was advertised. Odd, the government is providing some spec ops units these. I was hoping more folks that had actually used them would relate some experiences. Easy to slam anything w/o any personnel experiences. Right now, it appears we will not stock but offer special order options. Still would like to hear actual experiences Thanks Rick for the PM

Snake oil, I have had deer as close as 4 feet and didn't know. Was there. Play the wind and your fine. Seems like the commercial shows these animals in full rut and we all know they do stupid things when they are jacked up. Fish gave lateral lines which hecs may work on , but deer elk, no. Hey, if they market it guys will buy it.

To each their own, I don't want bothered with most of this stuff. Carrying that much baggage would detract from the hunt for me. Then again hunting is not my profession, just a simple pleasure and blessing to enjoy God's creation.

Let's say it did work, which I seriously doubt. Anybody have any concerns about fair chase? How many advantages do we need to kill a deer?

I have no idea if it works at all and I most likely never will, but I sure enjoyed this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfxB9nIvVZk

LOL Steve, I've seen that video several time, and gets my blood pumping every time. Thanks for sharing it. :-)

Rick

Do the Drury brothers use them?

If you think you need it then you should use it. Some people need every extra advantage they can purchase.

Just a business decision. To sell them or not to sell. 1 of 100 bows will be a stickbow.......

Sort it out: aluminum. And carbon arrows, steel broadheads, tree stands, shaggy coats, cammo clothing, scents, rubber boots, fast flight strings and fiberglass as bow backing. Tripods and baiting and compounds, Anybody ever use any those things to close with and take game? Is is in the end the hunter’s skill that may lead to an opportunity. Progress continues

Simple question for those who have actually used it. Time to fold up the loin cloths, hornbeam bow and rose shoot arrows with bone broadheads for the purist traditionalists

You should ask on bowsite.

Ask the guy in the mirror. He likely has the right answer for you. And, he is the only one you should care about when it comes to such questions.

[[[ I find it's difficult for me to form an opinion on things I have zero experience with. ]]]

Same here.

I would not own a HECsuit if it had not been practically laid in my lap for free. Since it was I tried it.

I'm still somewhat on the fence about it, but leaning heavily to the positive/it works side.

We've all had close (real close) encounters with game animals, and other critters. It happens, and it's very cool when it does. It just seems to me those encounters happen more frequently when I'm wearing the suit, so I wear it more often than not when I'm hunting.

Rick

"some need every advantage they can buy"

Bravo, there in lies the root of the modern sportsman's mindset. This is the same reason we have compounds and the same reason we have crossbows coming in and the same reason in Iowa we are now allowed to use 45/70's during muzzle loader season.

It's all part of a culture that believes that if they want it, they should have it, regardless of back ground or skill level, just spend enough and it's yours.

I know ozone eliminates odors, and probably the HECS suit and scentloc works too, along with camo and tree stands. I just don't want to be burdened down with all that stuff. I wear wool, move slow, sit still in a brush blind, play the wind, and still kill a deer. The wool I wear is the same wool I wear on my trapline. Scentloc won't hide the smell of the trapping scents I have spilled on my clothes. I would like to try a ghillie though.

I wear wool, Bean boots, home made quiver, armguard and tab, assembled cedar arrows from turkeys I killed. Do not have ozonics or scentlock. Do NOT own HECs, but am looking for real life experiences in the decision process to recommend a product to the owner of the archery shop. I agree that the decision to purchase any product is the guy handing over the cash and his values. His values may not be your values. Also agree the product is different and may offend those who profess “traditional” values in their hunting. Some customers are archers but do not share the value as many here profess, they even use compounds. Shudder! No crossbows or equipment for such is in this shop. Nice to hear opinions about what is right for our sport, but they do not help in the decision process, especially as they are visceral rants against anything new. Border bows , etc. receive the same derision from some with no experience with the product. Thanks to those who offered an answer to the question.

Uhh...a bow and a sharp pointy stick actually IS an advantage over a poor dumb animal...and some of us actually DO purchase them to take advantage of poor dumb animals. I'm guessing the true purists amongst us only hunt with a rope and a knife from the trees in a loincloth, like Tarzan (would that be tree stand hunting?!) Oops, wait, a rope and knife are also advantages. I guess there can be no purists.

You may be on to something there joep003. Only those of us like Frisky who scavenge are the real purists.

JusPassin, EXCELLENT point!! Long live Frisky!!

p.s. Tarzan did leap out of the trees and kill bara the deer with his bare hands and teeth, but even he saw the wisdom of taking advantage of the poor dumb animals by using a rope and knife...and he didn't even make his own knife!!??

Because of the products these guys were testing, they purposely let animals get down wind to see what would happen. They purposely moved with animals in the wide open and purposely walked to animals in the wide open, things they wouldn't do before, with results that left them speechless and wondering...

We've all had animals walk by feet away, but did you KILL THEM?? Funny how guys talk about having animals feet away from them while they wore nothing to tshirts and jeans while they were sitting up against a tree with brush in front of them. But were they allowed to move, lift a bow and kill em?? Next time you're turkey hunting, or calling coys, stand in the wide open in your solid clothing and let us know how it works for you. Oh, and please record it.

It says a lot about a site when someone like Rick B prefers to address the subject via PM, and I’m not sure that it says very much that’s Good, but there it is...

“Because of the products these guys were testing, they purposely let animals get down wind to see what would happen. They purposely moved with animals in the wide open and purposely walked to animals in the wide open, things they wouldn't do before, with results that left them speechless and wondering...”

I guess you’d need to know who the testers were and where they did their testing... ‘cuz with a little imagination and a bit of a budget, you can produce a video that will “prove” just about whatever you’d like.

Rationally, I don’t see how it possibly could work, because there are no known sensory organs (among mammals, at least) that function to detect the electrical impulses that I understand that these suits are supposed to conceal...

But since Rick is a serious person who is more inclined than not to think that it works, then I guess I’d take it as seriously as scent-lock or the sprays or similar stuff. One of those things that can’t possibly work as well as advertised but that may help you evade detection for a few more yards.

Whether you want that or not is up to you. If I were running a shop, I suppose I’d prefer to special order a few and see if they are catching on before I loaded up on inventory. If people are willing to buy them, you may as well sell them as let a big chain take the profits. It’s not as if it’s a moral decision..

"IF" it works, I am more inclined to believe it is a visual perception of aura.

[[[ Aura: the distinctive atmosphere or quality that seems to surround and be generated by a person, thing, or place. ]]]

Since we know, that most animals have better eyesight in the dark, than we humans do, would it not also be possible, that they may see an aura produced by the human body EMF, and the suit simply contains that EMF enough to hide the aura?

We already know, that the science of conductive square patterns works very well to contain microwave, and EMF emissions. We see it used in technology every day of our lives in things such as microwave ovens.

The suits are woven with a conductive carbon fiber size weave sized specifically to contain the EMF emission patterns of the human body.

Rick

I figure managing my scent is a lot more important than my camo.

Last year, I watched a doe cross an opening that I had just walked through about an hour earlier. It was cold and raining and the wind was howling about 20 mph straight into my face. There was literally NO WAY she could smell me or see me, as I was in a blind 150 yards downwind of her.

I saw her come out in the opening and start across it, perfectly normal. No signs of being alert. She was feeding a little and walking across until she hit the trail I walked on. Immediately her nose went up and she stopped and started looking around. She walked back about 20 yards then started to cross that opening in a different spot about 40 yards further up the trail I had come in on. She stopped again, precisely where I had walked. She could tell I had walked through that opening even though it was an HOUR earlier and even though I was wearing rubber boots, and even though it was raining and the wind was blowing hard toward me.

Fact is, our scent lingers long after we've walked through an area. There is no telling the number of animals we have NEVER SEEN because they caught our scent either by wind or along the trail we walked in on, and chose to go another way.

Camo is great and maybe even there is something to this HECS stuff - but you gotta get them close enough to matter in the first place and that starts with managing your scent.

I have no experience with it but I could see how it works if the science is correct...way over my head though! I will say I've seen some videos that show how close he can get to game! But we all know that's possible without the stuff. There's been times everything was perfect for me and I was busted and there have been times I was super close to game just checking cameras in blue jeans and a bright t shirt. Who knows?!

The bobcat video is by far the most impressive evidence I have seen.

It took that cat forever to figure out he was in trouble, and even when he decided he needed to sneak out he was still confused enough to have to stop a couple of times for a double/triple take.

Rick

Shoot 'em at 200 yards with a 270, they'll never sense your magnetic aura! ;-)

Hmmmm. Remember those magnetic bracelets that were being sold a while back? Were supposed to cure most of what ails you and keep you healthy. Don't see them around anymore.

Yeah, I'm a skeptic. Folks can show anything they want to with good video editing. And if it did work, I repeat my question, how much are we willing to tip the scales in our favor to to kill a critter? When is it no longer fair chase?

We've rationalized the use of a lot of technology in hunting over the past 20 years or so. Doesn't hurt to take a step back now and then to ask one self, how much is too much.

As someone that has used it for several years now, here are some of the benefits I've noticed: 1. It does seem to keep animals from noticing me while hunting. Mostly I've noticed the lack of reaction to small animals like those pesky pine squirrels. I've also seen a distinct lack of reaction from larger game animals too.

2. It has tons of carbon in it and I think it works as a scent blocker as well as an EM blocker.

3. It is very lightweight and breathable. Our Elk and deer season begins in Oregon in late August. Temp's can easily be in the high 80's or 90's and I wear the suit with cargo shorts and a T shirt underneath.

As far as fair chase goes, Not everyone on this site is hunting whitetails out of a tree stand. I hunt Elk and Mule deer primarily from the ground still hunting and calling. I think Oregon statistics show that about 10% of Oregon archery hunters are successful. As far as I'm concerned tree stands cross over "fair Chase" line more than a suit of cloths.

JMHO

I have never used camo, but I think it would work great as long as a squirrel didn't try to build a nest in it while I was wearing it or a dog lift his leg.........Ha!Ha!

I have to agree with PECO on the rest of the crud, I throw all that in with scent lures for fishing...Ha!Ha! People actually buy that crud.

I have walked up to many animals in my life time and they don't seem afraid, actually I got to within twenty feet of a bobcat yesterday and he acted like he wasn't too concerned about me being there, I walked away from it. Now if I have something in my hands that may look like a rifle or bow, that is a different story.

Just use common hunting practices like people have done for thousands of years.

My two cents

I don't get the fair chase argument when we're using anything but our bare hands and teeth.

The only "fair chase" hunting I do is for mushrooms, persimmons, dewberries and pecans. For everything else, I have a clear and distinct advantage because of the tools I use.

Make the chase as tough or easy as you want fellas. It's nobody's business but your own.

Look up the Pope and Young Club's definition of fair chase. In a nutshell, it says that fair chase is using practices that give the animal a fair/reasonable chance of escape. Every time we add a piece of technology to our arsenal, we're reducing the animal's ability to escape. This suit, if it works, takes away the animal's ability to scent and/or sense the hunter. That's a big chunk of its defense system/ability to escape.

That's one definition. Not a member because I don't need anyone else to define how I choose to hunt, or put arbitrary limits on it, and I certainly don't feel it's "fair" to reduce an animal to a score. Don't even get me started about competing by using God's creatures. That to me is no different than when Christ drove the merchants and money changers out of the temple. But I digress.

God gave us the "one/best tool" to use, which pretty much eliminates fair chase in any true sense of the definition, and gives us dominion over all other animals/creatures.

It's called our brain.

Rick

Science tells us anything that has an electronic signature gives off radiation. That would be our biological functions. Science also tells us a Farady box works to contain or shield against the electronic signature. Cheyenne Mountain is the government’s way of protecting against EMP. What science does not know is how/when/why other animals perceive the radiation. Skeptics abound as did they when fastflight, tree stands, laser rangefinders, fiber glass laminations, carbon shafts, goretex etc happened upon the scene. Limbwalker has it down=do what makes you comfortable in your chosen pursuits. Still interesting that so many have such strong opinions without one whit of research-just gut, visceral reactions. Those same persons probably availed themselves to some of the afore mentioned advances. Hunt your style. Again i do not own any HECS

True that Rick.

Having said that, I did watch a video where a group of distance runners actually chased down a pronghorn antelope out in New Mexico. It was impressive to say the least. They didn't kill it, but they easily could have. Just wanted to see if it could be done.

I am not sure how effective this product is. That said, HECs, Ozonics, and some other stuff go beyond what I consider fair chase. If others want to use the stuff that is fine but I choose not to. I don't want/need to eliminate all of the challenges from hunting, especially with a close-range traditional bow. I don't need to kill a deer that bad.

"I don't need to kill a deer that bad."

Great perspective there Ollie. I think for a lot of folks, that's what it comes down to. I believe that's why so many people choose compounds these days - because the idea of going empty handed is worse than the idea of using technology to them. And that's fine. We all land in a different spot on that scale.

On the Fair Chase thing…

I look at that this way: a deer has brain about the size of my fist, and it is given over almost entirely to the business of processing scent, sight, and sound.

And they’re good enough at it that they have managed to survive many millions of years under constant threat from stealthy, well-camouflaged predators which generally had to be able to get within about 20 yards in order to have a chance of closing the deal. A mountain lion, for example.

Camouflage, for the most part, is just clothing, and anyone who can sit good and still is at no particular disadvantage without it. And if you learn to move with the natural movement out there, you need be neither silent nor invisible in order to close the gap. Sometimes I can even pull it off myself.

But no non-human Predator is capable of going scent-free, and none have the EMF- cloaking capability that the HECS suit claims to provide. So the way that scent-control and EMF suits (arguably) cross the line of Fair Chase is that they provide a capability against which our quarry have no natural defenses...

That the philosophical argument, anyway. If you want a more practical illustration, let’s talk about a fair fight: in a blacked-out room, you wear ear plugs and I’ll wear NVGs. I like my chances.

I'm surprised there isn't a HECS blind

Me too 4nolz. Just imagine what they could charge for a HECS blind complete with an Ozonics in it! :D

If you build it...they will come...

Please go over to the bowsite and discuss these gizmos with the appropriate crowd who buys into these things. If I want to have this "superiority" I use a scoped .308. Is this fair chase? In my opinion: no.

If I don't want it, then I use a bow. Most people now use a compound because it is easier to master and takes less time and effort to do so for common hunting distances.

If want more fair chase and challenge, I am not using a compound bow with release, sights etc. I do this because I want to challenge myself.

And now someone wants to sell me some technical gizmo to improve my chances which I reduced on purpose with my own weapons choice?

Archery is supposed to be a primitive weapon. That why we have long seasons. The inclusion of compounds with release and sights and huge let-offs already contradicts that notion. Nothing primitive here. Modern crossbows? Not even close! A replica of a historical crossbow? More so than a compound bow. Electronic devices of any kind on arrows? No. Odor eliminating natural oil mixtures? Yes. Odor eliminating gas producing technology? No. Electronic Magnetic Field eliminator? Well, you know the answer.

Therma-cell? Not so problematic, as it protects the human from potential disease through insect bites but will not affect the outcome of your primitive hunt. You can use a Shannon Big Tamer and have the same effect.

The notion that the "desired result is justifying the means" does not go well with the use of traditional hunting weapons for sport hunting. It fundamentally contradicts it.

"Lo, men have become the tools of their tools."

If you haven't already, check out Aldo Leopold's writing.

Native Americans stampeded, and ran whole herds of bison over cliffs.

They also ran them down from horseback, and arrowed their targeted animals time after time where they died primarily by blood loss from multiple superficial wounds.

They ran other animals through gauntlets of hunters, where once again the animals died primarily from blood loss by multiple superficial wounds.

Is that traditional?

Rick

tecumtha please give us a list of approved topics.

Native Americans also often used the practice of smoking themselves, and their clothing to mask their scent, and even covered themselves in cold ashes from their fires.

Hmmm. Ashes. Carbon. I wonder if they had some idea about masking their body EMP?

Rick

I think it comes with a Tin Foil hat also

Somehow... oddly enough...

This reminds me of the Reformation when the Puritans insisted that their churches be devoid of all ornamentation; no stained glass windows, no elaborately carved pulpits.. just bare white walls.

And Martin Luther, the guy who started the whole thing, would simply say that such things were Free. If there was no prohibition against it in Scripture, then if people had their traditions and they had churches and that looked more like the Cathedrals, then why worry about what the place looked like?

Most of what we do while hunting is Free. If the principle of a thing troubles you somehow, then don’t do it.

I sometimes wonder how much of the disdain for some of this stuff is rooted in the fact that the one voicing the complaint simply can’t afford that whateveritis...

But it does seem kinda odd that a guy who uses a half-dozen trail-came to pick a spot and then hunts (near an artificial food source) from 12-15 feet up in a tree should be affronted by a guy on the ground, eyeball-to-eyeball with the animals, who chooses to wear a set of clothing that purports to overcome a phenomenon for which (to my knowledge) no credible scientific evidence exists. Yes, we operate on myriad tiny electrical impulses, and yes, creatures such as sharks have the apparent ability to detect them, but no mammals have those organs... and there are no cells in the retinas of ungulates with unexplained functions.

Too, if these fields were detectable, how would any ambush predator ever succeed? And how would any prey species ever evade a predator by simply freezing in place?

Anyway...

In the end we are all hypocrites, and recognizing our own hypocrisies just keeps us honest. So, to be honest, I do think there is reason to question whether these suits take it all just a step too far, but if I had one fall into my lap, I’d certainly go out and test it, if only out of curiosity.

BTW- @Rick: Fair Chase has no place in Subsistence Hunting; if I HAD TO fill a tag or let my kids go hungry, you’re darn right I’d wear a HECS suit if I had one, if only on the assumption that it couldn't hurt and it might just help in some specific circumstance. Just so long as it didn’t get in the way of my spotlight...

GF, nice post

Wearing Cloths: UNFAIR! Driving a vehicle to hunting camp: UNFAIR! Toilet paper in backpack: UNFAIR! Having a string on your stick: UNFAIR! Do you wear glasses or contact (gasp): UNFAIR! Metallic anything: UNFAIR!

There, the list has been started...

Heard from Cat on a PM. “BS” is his call. circ le complete

Im looking to buy if Ryman Cat is motivated to sell.Must be tick free.

No personal experience with Hecs but I do know that if you spend time with animals they will accept you. Like in national parks. It won't take you long to have them eating out of your hand. It is a great tool for Photography. PATIENCE >>>----> Ken

I suspect there may be something there with birds.

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