Anyone going to the PBS Banquet in Madison, WI in March? Just wondering! Hope to see ya!

yes

I'll be there. Think I'd win the prize (if there were one) for closest to the meeting place. I live about a half-mile from the hotel.

I probably will be there, but I don't like their stance on compounds.

Bowmania

I've never been to one but am contemplating going this year. Guess I would like to take it in one time. Stay Safe/Shoot Straight MTQUIVER

what is there stance on compounds?

They allow them!!! LOL.

I'm a redneck.

Bowmania

Perhaps I should have been more specific with my redneck way of thinking. PBS stands for Professional Bowhunter Society. For the last 50,000 years bows increased in poundage as you draw. In the last 50+ years I have not change my definition. In order to be a bowhunter you have to shoot a bow. Can something that does the opposite of a bow be a bow?

LOL. Isn't it wonderful how we can play with word to make things fit our beliefs. No wonder we have trouble with politics. Well, actually I don't - I'm right. There's that redneck in me. Sure hope this whole thing is politically incorrect.

Bowmania

Is it always held in Madison? Kind of a long haul for a left coaster.

osage,,, no, they move it around every banquet year. a few years ago, it was out in Portland, Oregon

I will be there. The Banquet is every two years, and is held in a different city each time.

I'll be there

whats a professional bowhunter? I do not think its the weapon, I think is good ethics, good behavior, respect for game and other hunters, and a belief in taking care of and improving Habitat,,,,,,,

In my opinion you really won't understand the PBS until you attend a Biannual banquet.

I will be there. Looking forward to it.

When where and how does one get a ticket I live in Milton, WI sounds interesting?

Bernie, are you a member? If so there's info in the PBS Magazine. If not go to the website. Again, if you are not already a member, you will have to join as an associate member and then sign up for the banquet.

http://www.professionalbowhunters.org

I'll be there tomorrow. Not sure when though, my wife decided yesterday that she wants to stumble around Madison while I'm at the banquet. That means I now have chores to do on the farm before leaving.

Have fun guys, too far for me but for sure I would like to be there with you, damn.

This was my first time there. I was hoping for more vendors, but those that were there, were all first class. I was able to cash in my footed shaft gift card, getting the dvd of Fred Bear films,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the guy at 3 rivers was great, and met the editor of Trad World....

Bought the slickest arrow holder from him, and you guessed it, I lost it,,,,,,,, I met Mike Mitten, always a pleasure, and met Barry Wenzel for the first time. What a nice guy he was, got his dvd on the crooked hat chronicles......

met some fellow wallers, all quality guys, it was real nice. I would not qualify to join, but it was a nice bunch of archers.

I did buy a patch, since I am a patch collector of anything archery............

Got to see the Black Eagle instinct arrow, and I liked those,,,,,

Hey Mike, You sure took off in a hurry. I just got there when I saw you. Didn't know you were leaving or I would have talked longer.

I got all excited about being there and was going to rejoin and I see I don't qualify either. That is ridiculous. The bow I shoot now delivers 6 foot/pounds more than my 50 pound bow that meets the minimum.

Bowmania

So does mine,,,,,, I have followed your journey and copied you a little,,,,, that's a compliment, for sure......

I will see you in April when I come down to Ojibwa

I would like to give a GREAT BIG hand to the members in Wisconsin for making this happen. ??????. I've made some great friends through the PBS and I encourage anyone who has never been to one to give it a try if at all possible. It was Great seeing you again Charlie. No matter what, you'll ALWAYS be one of us Traditional NY Bowhunters!!!

Todd, of course you can be a member. The associate membership has no restrictions on bow weight, I have been an associate member for years. The restriction was just for those applying for a regular membership. Put down the miller, put on your specs, ha!

If you did join, would it not be the goal, to be a regular member? I think they gave out wrong information at the desk, because I was told that too, but have since received messages, on what you have stated...................

No reason for regular, you can enjoy the organization and the benefits without having some kind of "goal".

There are lots of associate members, including some big names that are just fine being an associate member. Some will of course, cut their nose off in spite of their face.

I sense some deer camp arguments coming between me and the miller swiller over this, just like the one over his sissy little pink feathers:)

Bring your boxing gloves. You'll have to beat me to get those flys!!!

Bowmania

There is always a lot of incorrect information that circulates about the PBS and this thread is no exception. PBS no longer has a restriction on draw weight. It used to be 50# and applied to regular members ONLY. The membership voted this out of the by-laws several years ago. There currently is no restriction on bow weight for ANY member. We require members to follow applicable state/provincial laws with regards to bow weight and make the assumption that all members will choose a bow weight and arrow combination that is suitable for the animal that is being hunted.

Wear ypur Sitka pit zip jacket, I can do you a favor then.

I think the confusion stems from the bylaws listed on the membership requirements on the webpage.

Pretty easy to understand the confusion when guys are reading the rules right from the PBS website!

Thanks for the clarification, it really should be taken off there to avoid this back and forth, imo.

Hey there, I think Ollie is mostly right. I think the 50# Requirement remains, but can be changed on a case by case basis as per my last tour on Council. That being said I know of no instance where a qualified member was denied a relaxing of the draw weight requirement. The precedent was made when John Rook and I'm ashamed to admit but I have forgotten the name of the member from Maryland who were no longer able to draw 50# they addressed the Council in the Membership meeting at the Portland Banquet and it was heart wrenching.. When you get to the point in life where the body won't or can't allow it..

Todd, where you formally a Regular Member?

I was a Regular member for 43 years or so. One of the reasons why I dropped the membership was the 50# rule. Today’s modern materials used in recurves/longbows proved to me that lower weight bows are viable. The 42# recurve I was hunting with in 2011 was just as effective as those plus 50# legal weight bows I shot for over 40 years, maybe even more so because the lighter weight proved more accurate in my hands.

Greg, this is the first I’ve heard of any member petitioning the board to be able to use lighter than 50# bows and stay a member. Probably would have been nice to know that in 2014 when I decided to not renew, but then the leadership and board have always been very secretive.

The website is brand new, and the admin staff is also brand new. I will send her a note on this discussion.

Greg, the 50# requirement for regular members was voted out while Cory was VP. It was on the election year ballot. The requirement was never enforced but a lot of regular members were uncomfortable shooting bows of lesser poundage as long as the requirement remained on the books. The requirement comes from the desire of our founding fathers to keep target archers from one day taking over the organization, as happened with the NFAA.

I went to the website and saw where it was still listed as a requirement for regular membership. I posted a thread on the PBS website asking for this to be corrected.

Kelly, thanks for the comments. We at PBS have done a poor job in the past in communicating with the membership on issues such as this and it has led to some members dropping out as a result. Shame on us. You are correct. Many members and non-members are killing lots of stuff with 40-ish # bows. One size does not fit all. A guy hunting moose needs more bow energy than a guy hunting southern whitetails. Some bows are more efficient than others. Poundage is a relatively poor indicator of how a bow will perform. Current guidelines is that all members need to use bows that meet all legal requirements for where they are hunting. We think our members are experienced and ethical and will select equipment capable of getting the job done and there is no need for us to play "Big Brother" and dictate to the membership what they must use.

Kelly, you may request your Regular member status reinstated. There has been zero secrecy on the councils I have served on.

Please remember Council has jobs outside of the organization and often both our work and the at times the communication with membership can suffer at times. But I can assure you that there has never been any secrecy implied or otherwise since I was on Council from 2006 to now as far as I have ever been aware of.

Again, you can reinstate your Regular Membership.

Greg

John, I guess I was unaware of that. I was out of the loop for a couple of years on purpose. G

John, I guess I was unaware of that. I was out of the loop for a couple of years on purpose. G

when is the next PBS function, I had a good time

Next year there should be regional off year gatherings. For me the next function is a fishing trip with fellow PBS members I met on the PBS Hog hunt. After that I am signed up for a PBS member elk hunt in August. See the PBS website, or contact another member for details. Mike Theis or another member from WI should know.

Stay tuned to the PBS Facebook page for upcoming regional hunts and odd year events for next year. Then of course Springfield in 2020

Greg, but you and a couple others have never been able to answer the questions I put forward at Comptons and on the old PBS website a few years back. Failure to answer leads and has led to the secrecy I've talked about.

Over the years I've heard many times that there never has been a By Laws vote pass because of not enough votes from Membership, yet By Laws have been changed or new ones instituted. How could this happen as By Laws are very strict in how they can be changed?

Funny thing happened in 2014 when I failed to renew. After 43 years you'd think a notice would have been sent but nope, none ever came. Could it be that I asked too many questions of how things were being done without members approval so they were glad to see me go!

It was changed. There was several years of conversation (heated at times)by the regular members and the 50 pound restriction was finally removed. As was stated above, it has been left up to the individual member, whether associate or regular, to abide by the applicable game laws for the state they are hunting in.

It has been called to the home office attention and the information will be updated. When Harmony came on board she was given some out dated information.

The banquet was fun. It was great to see you Sean. Thank you to everyone who made the event successful. I met a lot of top notch people.

Kelly, I'm sorry you didn't get your questions answered, I truly don't remember it. We were in quite an upheaval with the then VP and then Cory fighting for excluding anyone who couldn't pull the weight or "gasp" had to go to a compound.

Kelly, our original by-laws made it nearly impossible to make some needed changes that the membership wanted (like reducing or eliminating the draw weight requirement for regular members). By-laws changes required 2/3 vote from eligible voting members. This proved to be nearly impossible as no organization ever gets 100% of their members to return a voting ballot. Several years ago we got enough support from the membership to change the by-laws to state that amendments to the by-laws required 2/3 approval from those members that voted and returned their ballots by the deadline, not 2/3 of those eligible to vote. We also lengthened the deadline to return ballots to better deal with some members being out of state or having slow mail delivery. Send a private email if you want more details. Thanks. John

Ollie, I'm well aware of the PBS By-Laws having been a Regular Member from 1970(long before you) and I was aware of how the votes went. But it still doesn't answer one of my questions of how the PBS BY-Laws got changed and/or new ones added if they never were passed by voting membership?

Heck, the Life Membership funds and how they were to be used was never even presented as a vote yet there it is in the By-Laws. And I know it was not there in the 1970's.

Kelly , just an observation.It seems you are spoiling for a fight on this, might I suggest pm`s instead of airing this on a public forum? Just a thought, it looks pretty tacky on your part, Imo. With all due respect, of course.

I wonder if Kelly is pointing out that the emporer is without clothes

Kelly, neither John or I can speak for council only as two guys who have served on committee and as councilmen over the years. You have always been a treasure trove of history of the PBS and I have always appreciated your knowledge and even your candor. John is not far behind you in overall knowledge. I know this the past 5- 6 years have been tumultuous with a faction of the PBS being extremely militant as to how the organization should go directionally.. I think the past 2-3 years it has again found its grove and is growing again thanks to good leadership through some tough times.

Kelly, neither John or I can speak for council only as two guys who have served on committee and as councilmen over the years. You have always been a treasure trove of history of the PBS and I have always appreciated your knowledge and even your candor. John is not far behind you in overall knowledge. I know this the past 5- 6 years have been tumultuous with a faction of the PBS being extremely militant as to how the organization should go directionally.. I think the past 2-3 years it has again found its grove and is growing again thanks to good leadership through some tough times.

Longbowbud, already tried that 5-6 years ago and I got nowhere with no answers. When doing it in private no one else knows what is being questioned.

Greg, that was one of the reasons why I chose to not renew my membership.

Well I am sorry you feel that way Kelly, honestly the best way is to call the President of the PBS and talk to him directly.

Why two memberships, regular and associate? If a person is qualified to be an associate yet not qualified to be a regular member.

This would be a great question for you to ask on the official Facebook page for the PBS or on their official website. There is good reason and once explained you'll get it I'm sure of it. Thanks, Greg

Is it a long answer? If you would answer it here so those interested have a better understanding of the PBS because that is one thing about this club I don't understand. Not answering it leads to question.

On a side note, I am still using your old lawn mower,lol

Never mind I read it.

Greg was referring to your statement about a certain faction wanting the PBS to go a different route. Nothing about you personally.Regarding talking to the President. I did that 5-6 years ago and got the same results, nothing just silence on the issues I raised and never answered my questions.

This post isn't to address anyone in particular.

I've been a PBS Regular for quite a long time and have seen the organization deal with many issues. Being an essentially all-volunteer group, the people who are elected and/or head up various aspects of PBS are doing this amidst their regular lives, jobs, families and distractions. Sometimes changes and news didn't and don't get reported or updated as rapidly and reliably as desirable. It's a failing on the part of PBS going back decades, but the worst it causes is some confusion. It obviously angers some and irritates others...while some just roll with it and know it's not a perfect organization. Part of it is just inherent in volunteer-run groups.

A few years back things got pretty crazy and tumultuous in the membership. There was a hard push to make PBS more about traditional bows and equipment, while stiffening the requirements to apply for Regular status...to include a required number of game animals killed with traditional equipment. Much divisiveness resulted and it went to a vote. The proposal did not pass. PBS remains officially open and welcoming to both traditional and modern archery hunters who agree with the basic tenets of PBS' membership requirements.

The result of that period seemed to be a case of heartburn lasting a few years. Things have apparently settled down a lot. The angry voices seem quieted for now. I have not attended the last 2 biennial banquets (Gatherings as we call them) simply because I had other priorities at the time. I too felt some of the heartburn, and I pulled back from involvement in PBS. I was told Madison was a superb event and I'm really happy to know that. I have no real clue about the current council and their focus on changes going forward. What I hope is that PBS continues into a long period of relative peace and some prosperity. The opposite happens when anger and in-fighting shows up. For my part PBS should be for and about people who want to be there and be happy about it. I don't know why anyone who is chronically negative, angry, bitter or disappointed would want to remain a member.

Congratulations to PBS for well over a half-century of constant support for true bowhunting, and a place for members to share their experience and knowledge.

A few points, if I may. I think you would be hard pressed to find a better ambassador for PBS than Greg. Hard working, caring, dedicated, persistent and all while being friendly and courteous.

I was a member from 1999 to 2003 IIRC. I even did one of those "I am the PBS"pieces for TBM. We got to go to two of the gatherings and met some of the nicest people ever. I always feel a sense of loss when I think of PBS, my loss. I left PBS because I could not follow some of their by laws and would not agree with some of their positions. Doesn't take away from them being a great bunch of people.

Yearly dues for an associate member is not a deal breaker for most of us. Give it a try and look at as many aspects as you can. Go to any of the hunts or gatherings you can. Especially the bi annual. There is just something about being around two hundred plus couples that share the same passion for bowhunting as you do. You really do need to experience the sadness of packing up on a Sunday morning knowing it will be two years before you can do it again.

To close. Most members will tell you PBS is not for everyone. The only way to tell if it is for you is experience it. You will not get your answers on an internet board. Nor will you get answers by looking for something to dislike. Back in 1999 I answered a classified add on the old leatherwall for a 21st Century longbow. The seller, a man known by many of us, asked me if I was a PBS member. When I answered in the affirmative he got my address and sent me the bow. Told me if I liked it to send a check and if not to send it back. To me that's the PBS.

Ditto Penny, that is what I remember PBS was and should be.

PBS Banquet in Madison was EXCELLENT! As far as the membership program, I am just glad to belong to this group of bowhunters! Thanks for a great Banquet and the meeting of new friends and getting to meet ones who I've read about over the years! Again, Thanks to the PBS!

What is wrong with the PBS having requirements? Not everone gets a trophy nor should they . Lots of organizations have requirements.

Anyone who wants to live in the past cannot enjoy the present. Whatever issues were 5-6 years ago have the opportunity to reassess and make a new determination.

I understand there's been turmoil and there always will be but.... I feel this organization has made good moves in the right direction and is dealing with issues professionally.

You shouldn't hate America because something Jimmy Carter did.

I encourage any past members to look back into PBS and decide whether to join again. You may still feel the same way, but we all have something to gain from quality membership.

I had a good time, and enjoyed those I met. I would not join, because I do not travel out of state to events, or trade hunts etc, in other words, I would not take advantage of what they have to offer.......

With that said, I wish them well, very nice group I met. I belong to the Wis Bowhunters Association, and that is enough, so I can get to their activities. We are all brothers of the bow, no matter what you shoot, trad or compound, makes no difference to me,,,,,, I shoot and enjoy both....... I just like to have fun and hunt,,,,,,,

Very well stated Kevin.

Kevin, I was hoping to meet you after corresponding through email over the last few years. I believe the banquet was well done and I have many fiends that I have met through the PBS. Have hunted with many of them through varoius PBS hunts. I help Jeff Holchin host one of the PBS hog hunts and hunted Alaska moose with a fellow PBS 'er from Michigan. A lot of networking going on between my friendships through the organization and I only see it getting better.

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