Traditional Archery Discussions on the Leatherwall


Shot sequence

Messages posted to thread:
yahooty 13-Jan-18
grouseshooter002 13-Jan-18
Liquid Tension 13-Jan-18
George D. Stout 13-Jan-18
zetabow 13-Jan-18
fdp 13-Jan-18
Bowmania 13-Jan-18
Therifleman 13-Jan-18
Liquid Tension 13-Jan-18
woodsman 13-Jan-18
Pinecrest 13-Jan-18
Elderly OCR 13-Jan-18
Bob Rowlands 13-Jan-18
DanaC 13-Jan-18
George D. Stout 13-Jan-18
ron 13-Jan-18
Liquid Tension 13-Jan-18
Gray Goose Shaft 13-Jan-18
Bob Rowlands 13-Jan-18
lv2bohunt 13-Jan-18
jk 13-Jan-18
Elderly OCR 13-Jan-18
Pinecrest 14-Jan-18
Horseman 14-Jan-18
Liquid Tension 14-Jan-18
Bowmania 14-Jan-18
Draven 14-Jan-18
fdp 14-Jan-18
Draven 14-Jan-18
2 bears 14-Jan-18
Draven 14-Jan-18
Rick Barbee 14-Jan-18
dean 14-Jan-18
Liquid Tension 14-Jan-18
sqrlgtr 14-Jan-18
Liquid Tension 14-Jan-18
Stucky 14-Jan-18
savage1 15-Jan-18
jk 15-Jan-18
2 bears 15-Jan-18
Bowmania 15-Jan-18
dean 15-Jan-18
handle 15-Jan-18
StikBow 15-Jan-18
fdp 16-Jan-18
Bowmania 16-Jan-18
StikBow 16-Jan-18
RymanCat 16-Jan-18
Liquid Tension 16-Jan-18
CW 16-Jan-18
From: yahooty
Date: 13-Jan-18




So after over 10 years of shooting trad. gear, I've promised myself this year to take things a little more seriously.

In holding with that promise I'd like to better understand shot sequence. I'm looking forward to hearing y'alls thoughts on what a shot sequence is and the importance.

From: grouseshooter002 Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Jan-18




Without going in to each step I would suggest purchasing the Masters of the Barebow set. There are 5 volumes now and each is a wealth of knowledge.

Grouse

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 13-Jan-18




Mine has 7 steps & I'm from the Len Cardinale school. Yours may have more. However many You have work out every step on the Bale to ingrain it.

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Jan-18




Buy a copy of "Understanding Winning Archery" by Al Henderson, and read it...Amazon has it for $9.95 in paperback. Then read it again and start applying it to your style. Doesn't matter freestyle, barebow, split, three-under, or whatever....form is form, and solid repeatable form is winning form, both in competition and the hunting woods. My style is my style but I got much of it from Dave Keaggy's book "Power Archery", then later I read Al's book and picked up some more tips.

From: zetabow
Date: 13-Jan-18




Shooting that long you likely have one, just not thought about it.

Just write 7-8 key pointi/markers to get you from start to finish. Ideal situation is you only think about it during practice or when you run into issues, think of it as more of a road map for when you get lost.

From: fdp
Date: 13-Jan-18




What George and LT said. Establish a sequence that works for YOU, using sound tips and techniques. The practice them until they are automatic. And no, contrary to what some of the folks are going to say, when you are shooting at game, you DO NOT over think the shot, if you have the sequence established. That's why you practice it to ingrain it.

Understand that every step that everybody uses may not work for you. So use what does, and let the rest go as long as you can still complete the shot successfully.

From: Bowmania Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Jan-18




I happen to be reading Al Henderson's book right now - FOR THE 3RD TIME.

Bowmania

From: Therifleman
Date: 13-Jan-18




My sequence has been built on those "aha moments" that i experience. For example when i discovered that not getting my elbow in line w string hand caused my arrows to go right ( i shoot lefty) i wrote elbow behind me as specific step. My sequence therefore serves to remind me of things that i forgot or did not regularly apply. Build your own, in your own words that addresses what you need it to.

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 13-Jan-18




3rd copy of Al's book for me & one is always in my bow case. Just a quick read after @ session or hunt will get ya right again. Len picked Al's brain hard & passed it on. Truly 2 legends & great teachers.

From: woodsman
Date: 13-Jan-18




Ditto's on Len.. I believe he's the best for curing tp too.

chris

From: Pinecrest
Date: 13-Jan-18




Al's book and Len's Secret's of the Shot video.

From: Elderly OCR
Date: 13-Jan-18




Pull back while locking onto target, let go with target acquisition coinciding with full draw.

From: Bob Rowlands
Date: 13-Jan-18




Same as OCR.

From: DanaC
Date: 13-Jan-18




I learned it from Viper's book, still making it my own.

- Stance

- loose grip on bow

- firm grip on string

- raise bow

- rotate draw to anchor

- settle sight picture/focus

- release

- follow through

Working on adding 'check string blur' before settling focus.

From: George D. Stout Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 13-Jan-18




The reason I recommend Henderson's book is the simple fact is he coached several archers to gold medals in the Olympic games. Lots of folks nowadays have no idea who he is or never heard his name, and that is a shame. You can do what you like, but you won't do any better than that.

From: ron
Date: 13-Jan-18




for me the last step before the shot is continuing to pull with the string hand elbow seems to help me make a good shot. I have to work at it all the time.

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 13-Jan-18




Imho there are bunch of new fancy terms for a lot of teaching theories today. Nobody has added anything new to the teachings of Henderson & Cardinale. Guys go to Jenkins school, Jimmy Blackmon & that's all Lens teachings etc..

I see fancy terms for "Back Tension" when all Al said was think " keep your elbow back" & his students where achieving back tension without ever knowing it. I completely agree with George go to the source.

From: Gray Goose Shaft
Date: 13-Jan-18




I ordered Henderson's book today because of what I read in an old G. D. Stout post. I will have finished 'Shooting the Stickbow' by Anthony Camera by the time it arrives. The Stickbow book was the best $24 I spent in a long time.

You can print the B.E.S.T. method for free off the 'net; Biomechanically Efficient Shooting Technique.

The KSL Shot Cycle, also on the 'net, is similar.

I stopped shooting my way last Fall and started building a shot sequence in earnest. I've never shot so well in 42 years. I'm having a great time. Enjoy the ride.

From: Bob Rowlands
Date: 13-Jan-18




'Stickbow theory' lol

From: lv2bohunt
Date: 13-Jan-18




I look at a shot sequence as the steps to a successful shot. Doesn't matter what you are shooting there should be a consistent and repeatable set of actions that take you from target approach to loosing an arrow or pulling a trigger. The steps can be unique to your style but should be consistent and repeatable. There are lots of good coaches and material out there to help.

From: jk
Date: 13-Jan-18




Push, push, push...last step before release, per the recently departed Galen Benson.

From: Elderly OCR
Date: 13-Jan-18




"Push, push, push."

Ah, the old reverse draw. Anchor the arrow and then push the bow.

From: Pinecrest
Date: 14-Jan-18




Well said Chris,thank you!This isn't anything new.

From: Horseman
Date: 14-Jan-18




This month Traditional Bowhunter dec/jan has a small article Shot Routine by Jason Wesbrock easy to understand and great advice on making the sequence your own.

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 14-Jan-18




Like others have stated one the biggest things necessary is @ the time of the shot for all this learning to be outta your mind so your free to hit what your aiming @! Don't get bogged down with too much garbage. You'll notice you shoot your best when your mind is carefree & on Autopilot!

From: Bowmania Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 14-Jan-18




Liquid Tension, not to be argumentative, but I try to clog my mind with 'garbage'. I don't want it on autopilot, because my subconscious will run forward to a spot in the sequence where I might have trouble and then give me trouble. An idle mind is the devils workshop.

I've gone so far as once I have the sequence down to muscle memory I add a mantra, so I can't, in effect, think.

If you have a sequence and you read the book 'Free Throws' by Dr. Tom Amberry, I can guarantee you will change your sequence. Any one know how many free throws he sank in a row? If your guessing, guess high and then double it.

Amazon has it for as little as 5 bucks once in a while. I have a supply on hand and give it to curtain students that need it.

With a proper sequence and a mantra I think it's impossible to get TP.

Bowmania

From: Draven
Date: 14-Jan-18




You played basketball Bowmania or are you talking just from books? You don't think how you throw the ball, you train so much that your body knows what to do. The last thing you want in action is to think how your wrist should be when your mind is focused on evading and opportunity to make the shot. And no, you change nothing because in basketball you learn to be efficient. in archery efficiency is not taught, is expected to be there.

From: fdp
Date: 14-Jan-18




Todd's reference to shooting free throws was just that. A reference to shooting free throws and having a sequence established when doing it in order to do it well.

Archery is MUCH more closely related to shooting free throws then it is to any of the other sports.

The way that you shoot a basketball in a dynamic situation is VASTLY different then the way shoot a 25' jump shot, or a free throw, and in many instances a layup. So to compare a dynamic basketball shot, such as when you charge the lane and 2 people step in front of you, or the way that a second baseman or shortstop makes a throw to another position on the field is completely foolish. When I grabbed a ground ball 10' from 2nd base and tossed it to Darby Moore (usually underhanded and softly enough that he could barehand the ball as he stepped on 2nd base and make the next throw where it needed to go, covering from shortstop, the sequence that I used was NOTHING like the sequence that I used making a throw from 2nd base to home plate ahead of a runner after fielding a smoking ground ball.

Now, if you are the type of archer that draw the arrow to different positions on your body, draw the arrow different lengths (that controls the velocity of the arrow/ball, change the attitude of the shot to lob an arrow into a target that's 40' away. More power to you. But most aren't capable of doing that.

THAT is what shooting a bow like you throw a baseball, or shoot a basketball, or throw a football would REALLY be like.

I've been doing this since 1965'ish. I've been around some really well known archers, and I've seen exactly 2 that had the ability to shoot a bow consistently using a style that an analogy like that would describe.

And yes, I did play basketball, baseball, and football.

From: Draven
Date: 14-Jan-18




fdp, when someone tells me you change your way of shooting free throws after reading a book it's plain silly to not say other word. You learn to shoot free trows correctly from the first time. More than 70% of a training is just this. You don't think in your head every time you take a free shot "now I flex the elbow, put the hand above my forehead 1", look at the ring and throw away" like you do with your "set, anchor, pull or push through clicker". Archery and basketball have one single thing in common - they use hand eye coordination.

From: 2 bears
Date: 14-Jan-18




Not a basketball player. Just what are they doing,when they walk to the line look at their feet / line,bounce the ball 3 times, look at the net,bounce it 3 times again and look at the net then shoot. Are they clearing their mind of every thing,or reciting their sequence. Is there a rule against them shooting a jumper,hook shot, or even backing up another 10 feet. which would be the most productive? Just had to ask.>>>----> Ken

From: Draven
Date: 14-Jan-18




The single thing that was crossing through my mind is to calm down mentally and physically before throwing away the ball. How to execute it was the least important.

From: Rick Barbee
Date: 14-Jan-18




Focus

Draw

Anchor

Settle

Focus

Release

Follow through

Rick

From: dean
Date: 14-Jan-18




Shot sequence 20 yards. 1. Take sharpened garden hoe and unlump the ground where my feet need to be. 2. Pull my pants up. 3. Wait for car to ride past and pull my pants again. And then the fun starts. Hockey players and golfers both wack things with sticks. Hunters and target shooter do the same.

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 14-Jan-18




Learn all you can like I have but @ the time of the shot there can be no Do's in your mind! From Len Cardinale you've done the work Trust your Form. If your thinking of other things @ the time of the shot you need more bale time to completely trust your sequence. Just my HO.

From: sqrlgtr
Date: 14-Jan-18




Anybody remember NBA's rick barry free throw shot.thats how i shoot my bows and arrows...Granny Style...

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 14-Jan-18




One more thing never argumentative we all learn from one another!

From: Stucky
Date: 14-Jan-18




I'm always listening in on what you guys have to say and been taking mental notes for a while. I have played many sports and can honestly say that I have to agree with what everyone has said.

Archery is such an individual sport that each of us has a slightly diferent method, rhythm and style that feels right and works. That being said, there are certain universal fundamentals to any hand eye movement that can and most likely will improve ones success.

I am certainly nort the most experienced guy on this site, the best shot or as good as I'd personally like to be. However, I can say with great confidence that I can take just about any sport and relate it to archery. I'm not a golfer at all but I do understand stance, grip, swing and follow threw. Sound a bit like a shot sequence to you?

Throwing a baseball in a fluid motion after making a diving catch, seems to me, no different than shooting a rabbit or pheasant in motion. Ten Bears, not sure if that was a sarcastic or honest question about free throws. I'll answer, IMO best I can. The guy who looks at the floor, dribbles, bends his knees etc. etc......is finding a rhythm and performing a shot sequence. Some ball players will do this by feel, some by following specific steps and others still, will be reciting they're montra in their heads. It's all very much like archery to me.

I would say that one could reasonably argue only a couple real differences in archery vs any other sport. First and biggest being, I can't think of any other sport in which you inhale to make an action. I've only participated in sports that you exhale to execute an action. Maybe deep sea diving could qualify. But that isn't really a dynamic, action reaction thing, at leasbased on my limited knowledge anyway. Secondly, upon release, there is a reaction when shooting a bow. This reaction can be difficult not to anticipate. I don't shoot hand guns much but have noticed a similar problem there. Exception........

Boy, that was long. Did any of that make sense to you guys?

I guess the point I wanted to interject is that more times than not, no matter the sport, the best have always put in many hours drilling and practicing until the motions become so automatic they are able to still preform at a high level under adverse circumstances.

From: savage1
Date: 15-Jan-18




I shoot with some of the best snap shooters there is. The arrow goes where it was pointed at the moment of release every time!

I think it's been holding me back. Lol

From: jk
Date: 15-Jan-18




http://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/Steph-Curry-shows-up-at- Oakland-gym-hands-out-12424853.php

Maybe the secrets are a) good genetics b) good values

From: 2 bears
Date: 15-Jan-18




Stucky, it is only 2 Bears. You are right I was being sarcastic. Just like you said it seems obvious to me,"they are performing a sequence" and or "reciting their mantra" Others disagree but it seemed so obvious to me and apparently we think alike. Whatever just keep the arrows flying,some will find the gold.>>>--->Ken

From: Bowmania Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 15-Jan-18




Ok, Nobody read the book Free Throws or would venture to take a guess. Plus I didn't suggest reading it to change your sequence when shooting FREE THROWS, I mentioned it because you'd change your sequence for shooting A BOW AND ARROW.

He sank 2750 free throws with out a miss. Took 8 hours and the only reason he quit was because the gym was closing. It's in the Guinness book of wR's. He was also 72 years old when he did it.

Savage, My CO hunting buddy was the best shot I ever shot with - instinctive snap shooter. Now, he has TP so bad he can't hit a deer at 15 yards.

Bowmania

From: dean
Date: 15-Jan-18




My best shooting happens when I do not argue with my one second shooting tempo. However, I spend many many hours working on the fine points. There is always something to refine. I have come to rely on arrow lengths as my final shot control. I played with net length for a number of years and then had to do a control shift when going to bop net with broadheads. I made two dozen arrows last year that I cut a quarter inch long, I always find myself searching for that point, but that is putting me in a slight over draw situation, which throws my typical eye alignment off a little. My winter project is to correct those miss cut arrows, so everything will be exact bop net. Last year I gave away my Hoyt, I am getting too old to shoot two completely different styles, the joints need a break. As much fun as it is to stack arrows tight at long ranges with a target bow, I decided that I must only take the shot types that I would actually take at live game, I shoot way much the way it is.

From: handle
Date: 15-Jan-18




To me, a golf shot is the most similar to a bow shot. Both have no time limit(unless game is involved), both involve certain basic fundamentals, and both can be under thought and overthought. The other similarity is that it only takes 1 perfect shot to bring you back out again. Also, IMO, both are very unnatural. Throwing a rock or a ball, on the other hand, is natural.

When I swing a club or shoot a bow, I only need to focus on one part of the sequence. Doesn't really matter what that one thing is (left arm straight, hit behind ball, turn hips first, whatever) What really matters is that you believe the one key you're thinking about matters. Same with shooting a bow.

From: StikBow
Date: 15-Jan-18




Then we are agreed: many on this site are accomplished in several sports; analogies exist among theses sports to our chosen sport; there is a series of steps or mental checks the better archers use to be consistently accurate; Those who haphazardly”grip and rip” are not as accurate as those who have read and reread several valuable how-to books and apply those techniques they deem appropriate to their ‘style”, or they have been properly coached. And so it goes round and round.

An arrow does not go where p[ointed at the moment of release-unless it is tuned to the bow and archers”style”. I have been around long enough to know that is a simple truth of our sport

From: fdp
Date: 16-Jan-18




Stik....that last statement isn't really true. But that's a topic for another day.

An arrow goes in a straight line from the string, through the length of the shaft,to where ever the point is headed. And an archers style has little or nothing to do with it.

From: Bowmania Professional Bowhunters Society - Associate Member Compton's Traditional Bowhunters
Date: 16-Jan-18




"Then we are agreed..." StikBow are you new to this site?

Bowmania

From: StikBow
Date: 16-Jan-18




No not a newby, just trying to sum up a never ending topic;;;;like any of the entertaining stuff frisky provides Or the dead cow

Is this important? Yes. I mark student’s tab on the string line, chalk their feet, watch them seat the arrow against the nock set, check their anchor point, their elbows, every physical thing they do to ensure consistency=====but cannot get inside their little heads to determine what they “see” when they “aim”. Yeah a checklist is important. I have seen people tape it to their bows. A solid Foundation plus consistency=accuracy. The most important distance on the range after you get this physical stuff together is the 6 inches between your ears

From: RymanCat
Date: 16-Jan-18




Tricky Rick is 100% on this one.

If you get set then focus I think that's backwards. Focus and pick it out before you even draw down and don't loose that focus.

You don't have to be outside either to practice your shot sequence either can be done visually or inside with your bow.

Ready get set go. Steady get set go let him have it.LOL

Many pick up bad habits along the way then have to reinvent what works to find their own grove.

From: Liquid Tension
Date: 16-Jan-18




I find with the Recurve one of the most important drills to keep your Sequence in check is drawing,aiming, & then letting down. Imho it seems easier with the recurve to let your Sequence/Shot get away from you & turn into a hurried mess. This drill done on the Bale done regularly keeps me sharp. Also Al Henderson said when a student went awry he asked when was the last time they did close range work? You can construct a great shot in a closet!

From: CW
Date: 16-Jan-18




Having a mental and physical shot sequence is needed for establishing and maintaining a consistent shot. Especially if you are trying to change something in your shot process.

Having a coach work with you to develop this sequence is the best way to go. Sometimes what you think you are doing is not what you are actually doing. A coach's eye is worth the time/$





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