As many of you know, I switched back to the compound over the winter. Due to an injury. I'm sure some of you remember the flack that myself and BOXCALL received for trying to work out a deal for one of his wheel bows. I sure do.

Anyways, I have worked very hard to be able to shoot a trad bow again. I used to shoot mid 60's and even had some mid 70 pound bows. But, no matter how hard I worked, I couldn't get my shoulder and bicep to be able to handle shooting a hunting weight bow again without aching for days afterward. I tried deflex/reflex long bows, straight limb longbows, recurves, long and short. It didn't matter. If I tried to shoot a manly weight bow, I simply hurt so bad I couldn't sleep. By manly weight, I mean 50 pounds at 28.5 at least.

Now, before some of you get mad and start telling me how I can kill a deer with less than 50 pounds, hear me out please. I have indeed killed deer with trad bows that drew less than 50 pounds at my draw. But, I just don't feel like it is the ethical thing to do. And, I do not buy into the apathy that many here exhibit when they preach about light bows being more accurate. If that is for you, than sobeit. It isn't for me.

Anyways, I worked hard and rehabbed as much as I could. But, no dice. Every time I tried to shoot a decent bow, I simply hurt for days. So, I was speaking with a buddy of mine on here knw as longbowdave, who happens to be a pretty dang good bowyer as well, about my problem. He said he had an idea on a bow design that would still hold strict to the laws of traditional archery, but provide enough mechanical advantage for me to be able to draw enough weight to be a manly man once again.

I sad ok and inquired about what he had in mind. He told me he'd build it, and shoot for a mid 50's weight at my draw. The rest, he left me in the dark on. For a couple months I awaited some hints on the progress and what he had in mind. Finally, he told me he was going to bring it down on our annual hunting trip this year.

So, when he arrived, he presented me with this bow. I was astounded. It was a deflex/reflex design, 60 inch NTN longbow. It scaled 56 pounds at my 28.5 inch draw. And shot amazing. So much so, I hunted with it the following days. I experienced some success with it too. Initially, I really liked it. But, as you will see, it has a weird addition.

My only hang up on the bow, is if it fits the definition of "trad". I don't want "trad" enough. I want "trad" to the bone. I realize in the past that I have been the first to tell anyone that the weapon didn't matter. But, the older I get, the more "trad" defines my hunting worth. So, it is important to me to be able to KNOW that I fit into the traditional group.

So, please tell me what you think. I'll post a pic next post. It is very important to me to be a real hunter. Also, has anyone every seen anything like this before.

Here it is.

Seriously? That's just a very early model compound!

Unless you want to rip your shoulder to pieces or go #40-45, you are relagated to shooting that bow which looks gorgeous to me. At least it looks like a real bow and not some metallic machine. With a design like that, us old farts can carry a trad bow into our 90's. Enjoy it.

Square wheels. That there's funny.

It sure is different. But hey if it helps you go for 100%

Yep. When compounds first came out, some fellas also started selling wheels that one could attach to recurve limbs after shortening them a bit. Made an inexpensive compound out of a recurve. Kind of looks like that's what you have there.

Given your posts over the years, I'm a bit surprised that you equate draw weight with "manliness"/traditional, etc. Don't know how/why you convinced yourself that one needs 50# or more to be ethical, kill a critter with a traditional bow. That's simply not the case.

Regardless, good luck in finding something that works for you.

When did you last change out underwear Justin since your baring all.LOL

BTW sweet bow.LOL

It shoots very well. Hard and fast. Best of all, I used wood arrows.

If it keeps you in the woods, it's a good thing.

If you're seeking acceptance as far as it being "trad" well, I think it would be far more trad to shoot a 40# bow without gadgets on it.

My guess is that in the history of bowhunting, hundreds of thousands if not millions of deer have been killed with a bow scaling under 50#. How much more trad can you get than that?

Never saw one like that Justin...that's different for sure.

Frankly I wouldn't care what others think anyway, but bringing it here is asking for the neotrads to go bat shit crazy. Anyway, I have a Jennings T-Star coming in the mail tomorrow, and I have a Martin Cougar Mag in the basement. But this is a traditional forum, so I won't say anything more about them. My religion is of the Christian faith, not archery.

George every time I read your posts, I feel better about life and people. Thanks for posting and I'm not being a smart @$$. I would shoot the strings off that bow and Love every minute of it. Definitely has the older compound style, but still working limbs. I suffered a collarbone injury due to stupidity this season early. So I hunted my compound until it became to much and then carried my rifle. After 6 weeks I was able to shoot my trad bows again and finished my last tag with a nice young buck. IF, I had not been able to shoot the bow for a bit longer I would have still enjoyed carrying my rifle and perhaps a real muzzleloader at the end of the season. Any way you can enjoy time in the woods I say it's all good. I have read lots of your posts in the past, no sense in getting worked up now. Just enjoy the world as your body allows.

-Bones

Well, I didn't use to care either George. But, for some reason I do now.

1/2 mile, that bow is all wood except for the string and metal rivets. That string is on the cutting edge of material and craftsmanship design. I imagine if Rick Barbee had stayed in the business longer, he may have discovered the design and material before Dave did. Also, The square out dates the wheel. So, even though the thing resembles a compound, I'm trying to convince myself it truly has merit for being traditional. At lest as traditional as any stick only bow. That is what's important to me.

Its hideous, but I love it! Now go get'em.

WV Mountaineer- all is well! Like I said, if it keeps you in the woods, active, shooting arrows, hunting, etc. I'm all for it!

Remember we like to use the word Trad, but only a couple use the term Primitive correctly. Our bows are far from their predecessors of bent sticks. So with that in mind, ENJOY THAT THING AND SHOOT IT!! :D

-Bones

Is not the tool that defines who's trad or not, is how you feel about yourself when you use it. If the caveman knew how to make pulleys he would have used them. Go out and shoot that thing.

I'm thinking that there is way too much weight at the end of those limbs and it will self destruct after a few dozen shots. Those are pretty radical cams too. I think that I have seen it all now.

Look interesting. More close up pic please. :)

If it feels good, shoot it!

If you are a grown up you don't need anyone's approval of weight class or bow type. Shoot what you are comfortable with.Shoot what ever puts a smile on your face. It is stupid too hurt yourself for anyone's approval. I do quite well with 40 pound draw weight. If I need to go back to a CP so what.The big manly guys can tote my critters out of the woods to show how stout they are.Just keep the arrows flying for as long as you can. >>>----> Ken

I? was worried about that too Brad. But the squeels do most of the work. It is very accurate to shoot. It over comes the holding of full poundage at full draw. We didn’t test it but, I’m guessing it’s about 90 percent let off. I? was able to stay anchored forever with it and really burn my hole into the target. Here’s a pic of my 3rd and forth shot. It shoots where you look for sure.

As you can tell, some were amazed at how accurate it was. Super quiet too. Much better pointer than any bow I’ve shot. I? attribute that to the bowyers base trad bow design though.

Full draw pics, or it didn't happen.

Better yet, how about a video of you shooting it? That would be special.

You worry about too much,,, who cares, shoot what you want, want to worry about something, go volunteer at a cancer ward, its only archery,,,,, go have some fun,,,,, geesh

Dan, it is a little choppy but, nothing like the old hatchet cams

Jeff, I? don’t have any videos. Nor do I? know how to post them. But, here’s a pic at full draw.

The only thing that bothers me about this thread is the fact that you don't need 50# to kill a deer and some guys just don't get it.

Religion is dead! Scripture says it that its a relationship with Jesus Christ that is required. There is a big difference. One gets you to hell the other gets you life and salvation!

Darn Justin I have same jacket and hat.LOL I been wearing mine over my KOM jacket.

BTW how fast is that bow Justin? Looks like it pulls sweet.

Justin us Virginians love to crack jokes about West Virginia. For example, a West Virginia backhoe is a shovel, a West Virginia dump truck is a wheelbarrow....you get the idea.

Problem.I am having with this is trying to figure out is it a West Virginia compound or a West Virginia longbow ?

Guess it doesn't matter if it gets you out enjoying archery and it sure looks ya'll are !

Lol good one

Im glad that you have found a way to stay in the game and enjoy shooting. Each of us has to find what works for him or her and the only goals are accurate shooting and enjoyment. Best of luck on full recovery!

That bow has some serious design and knowledge into making it. The bowyer has an exceptional talent. I am curious, there is a cross section where compound bows called cables come together. Does your bow have that as one continuous string, or what was used for the "cable" section, and is there an issue with clearance/ arrow slap when the arrow is released?

-Bones

Good luck with your new bow hope it continues to work for you.

Perfect! Git er done.

Now I've seen everything! Its not a wheel bow. Good shooting

Looks like the tires on my car at -50 in Jackson WY. So...does it go bap a tah bap a tah when you shoot it? lol

No, it's not a traditional bow, not even close. The idea you need a 50 plus pound bow though just makes no sense at all. Try therapy.

I was in camp when this bow arrived. I'm 72 and due to several physical problems I can no longer shoot 50 + # bows. I was permitted to shoot the bow and managed 2 shots having difficulty with the 56# s. My accuracy was not near Justin's but I was amazed. Quiet, fast and no hand shock. I loved the grip. The string was unusual and had no center serving but felt good on bare fingers for 2 shots. I think it's traditional.

Might as well go three under eh WV?

I'm surprised nobody went there yet...

What are the brackets and square wheels made out of?>>--->Ken

Sorry about the blank post. WV, I didn't recognize metal rivets, I thought they were small hardwood dowels.

Seriously, if physical limitations prevent you from shooting a trad bow, so what. Then it's time to stay with the compound. Life is what it is. just gotta accept it.

Glenn, that puffy coat is warm. Kinda bulky but, it’s sure warm by the time it puffs up.

The string is continuous. That part of why the reign is so efficient.

Dave, I? too believe it is traditional. I? am trying to settle on a name.

Takers and squeals are made from wood. Ash I? believe

JusPassin, and all other men who are trying to convince me that I? don’t need a manly weight bow, please refer to my earlier post about killing deer with a lighter bow. After doing it with light and heavy bows, I? assure you I? prefer the heavier bow

Glenn, I’ve never chrono’ed it yet. But I’m guessing the mid 220’s

God Bless you Brother! When there's a will there's a way. Glad to see you shooting. ..................Jim

Justin, Years ago, Harold Groves used to take a recurve and convert it to a compound. I got to shoot one and it shoot very well. Your bow reminds me of it. Only difference is, his had round wheels.

That's a really cool bow, no comment on the trad stuff. If it works for you than great!

I think it's wonderful that it lets you continue to hunt, but hoping to convince yourself it's a traditional bow is just plain silly. No more so than a Mathews.

I? think the discomfort caused by shooting a stick is is caused by holding the heavier weights at full draw. I’m not a snap shooter. I? can be. But, I’m in the ballpark of three to four seconds at anchor most times. So, what seems to be the problem causer is no let off. FWIW, when I? shoot my compound too much, my bicep and shoulder aches as well. Just not as bad as when shooting a mans stickbow.

I? haven’t shot this one enough to know if it’ll feel better than my compound. Dave presented me with it on a Tuesday night, the pics you’ve seen came the following morning I? didn’t even hunt that morning. As you can see, many of us didn’t trying to learn this new bow. It didn’t take long for us to all get dialed in. Don’t let lost arrow fool you. Everyone who shot it agreed it was the fastest, best pointing trad bow they had ever shot. I? had to agree. I? shot it 25 or so times on Wednesday and killed a nice 7 point with it on Friday. I’m impressed with it. And, the more I? think about, the more convinced I? am that this year as trad gets.

This dang phone. It keeps putting a question mark behind every “I?” I? type. It shows up as a square when I? type too. But changes to an I? with a question mark behind it after posting.

Also, the last part of my last sentence, in my last post was supposed to read “trad as trad gets”. Not the dumb auto correct version it put in there.

FWIW, I? have talked with the bowyer about getting everyone to chime in with a name for this design. I’ve beaten around a few but, he wants me to name it and, I? want a real good name too, before he starts manufacturing this line up. So, what do you think?

I want to see a selfbow version with wheels.

I think a good name for it would be "Piece of S&^%t".

And you received flack for going compound???? ;)

Justin, I know it matters to you so look at the bow. Hand made by a talented bowyer. All wooden components, hand sanded and finished. Don't get more traditional than that. It's much, much more trad than some of these weird machined risers.

That's the durndest thing I've ever seen. Still not sure if I've been fooled or it's real.

Square wheels now I've seen everything.......

Justin, to be really trad, you have to jump out of a tree on to the bear and kill him with your knife.

So don't worry about being trad, no one here is except maybe Ron LaClair, I think the bear would run if they came across him in the woods.

So you are good to go, just don't show anyone your bow, keep it covered until you see what you want to shoot.

A little humor Justin, seriously just shoot it if you want, if it wasn't for all those strings I could say it was OK!

What kind of jackass gives a guy a car-load o’ shit for shooting whatever it takes to keep him in the woods?

I have a feeling that Father Time has a special penance for these clods, just a- waiting in the wings.

W That is really unique and cool looking. Kill some game and ignore the jealousy lol.

It is Trad Dave. No doubt. I can't see where anyone can say the ilf and converted compound riser bows are trad and, not say the same thing about this one since it is all wood.

Tradmt, the mechanical advantage comes from the squeels. But, all things that produce that advantage are natural material. including the string. That is why it is traditional bow all the way through. No carbon, no glass, noaluminum cams, no metal limb bolts, etc......

I think I have come up with a name that the bowyer will really appreciate. "LONGPOUND"

charley, you can bet its real. It is 1 for 1 on deer. I'll post a pic and story tomorrow of the 7 point I killed with it. Only complaint I have is a quiver on the bow leads to torque for me if I'm not careful. So, my shooting coach, stickbow21, loaned me a back quiver to actually hunt with. I'm not a grip shooter. I let a bow settle where it is at full draw. However, with this bow, the weight of that quiver just caused it to twist. Forcing me to shoot with a grip on the bow. So, I went with the back quiver instead.

Maybe I can work through that in time. Or try a different quiver. Time will tell. It's the only non perfect thing about the bow for me. I suspect a different bow quiver will fix it though

" LONGPOUND ", I like it. I wonder if the bowyer has made it back home yet.

WV. I know what you are going through. I have a bow hand pain in my wrist, thumb knuckle. If i am going to shoot my recurve, i just got to make sure i have already took a leak before hand. I have been to Dr.s, chiro's. The chiropractor is helping it quite a bit. I have been using my C-pound mostly, and have taken out the recurve also. It's tough hunting with a bow, that's not, what's in your heart. I am down to 40#, and if i hold at anchor, then release, the pain is terrible. But, if i snap shoot it, it doesn't hurt as bad. Like my Uncle once said to me, "This, getting old stuff, ain't for sissy's";^). I know what he was talking about now. If that bow gets you out, and you like it, go for it. Good Luck to you.

I think so Dave. I was texting him last night and, he said he hadn't seen many deer in his home state this last week.

He sounded as if he approved of the name I am proposing. He's worried though. Says he doesn't know if he can build them quick enough. I got faith in him. We don't call him the Yoder Motor for nothing.

He's such a swell guy. He carted that 7 point out for me. Built me this bow. He happens to be a great cook too. Just a great fella that designed the newest revolution in Trad bows

What George said! Do what you want within the law!

I was quite impressed and intrigued by this bow WVM. Quite unique. I snapped a few shots while in camp.

Justin, I've sent Yankee Doodle Davey, longbowdave here on the wall, 2 PMs with no response. You think maybe he is in the hospital recovering from the rigors of camping 10 days in the WV wilderness ?

Amen tradmt. A rose by any other name??????

The Groves conversion was the first thing I thought of after thinking that bow is the crappiest I've ever seen! It would take more than a sore shoulder to ever get me to be seen with the pile of garbage! My 45 pound Grail would blow smoke around that thing- both in beauty and performance! I vote to send that thing to RymanCat and be done with it!

Joe

Hurtful words Joe...

After seein the beating Justin took last year for having to switch back to a compound, I thought I'd try to help the guy out. He's a big burly guy, but he's still sensitive. When his traditional brothers turned on him for having to change for a year or so, it hurt him, as he loves his trad bows & the people that shoot them. My name is Dave Yoder, and as many of you have already guessed from it, I'm Korean, my middle name is actually Lon-whang. As is the tradition in my family for the first son of every son to have it for a first or second name. I have a Lon- whang, but my younger brother doesn't, he's always been bitter about that, but that's life. Anyways, being Korean, I have a history rich in archery, and I will need it to make a special bow for Justin. The design had to be something special, something similar to what he was used to, as well as something that would be accepted by all, even the -all wood- guys like Durnell, Krewson Pappy, etc... The Christian's among us are well aware of Adam shooting a longbow. When he sent Eve to get him a target, she picked an apple....well we all know how that turned out, but the point is, the longbow, being the most basic / traditional design would be the basis for Justin's bow. So how to get a mechanical advantage at full draw?? Wheels were the obvious answer, but no, not traditional. I needed a design the pre-dated the wheel.....eureka!!! Not only would I think outside the box, I'd use the box in the design! Thats where sqwheels were born. With the string pulling 90 degrees to itself, it would have to cut down on the hold weight. I had some miscellaneous wood from my homeland laying around. I don't recall their names, but are similar to cherry, ash & hickory found here in the states. I used a reflex-deflex design for the bow, and through trial & error I found the right size sqwheel to work with his draw. Shaped the grip similar to his Maddog, but altered it slightly to work with his limp wristed shooting style. Now down to the string. I contacted a buddy of mine & he would be happy to make me one. But the more I thought about it, I wanted to make one from natural materials, since other than glue & 4 pins, the bow was all wood. I knew cat intestines have been used for violins in the past, so that's what I thought I'd try. I drive back roads everyday for my job, so I kept an eye out for roadkill, as I don't have the heart to kill one, nothin. My brother n law, being an over the road truck driver, knew what I was looking for, he called me one day with good news. He was pulled over along the side of the road, along RT 90 near Austin, Minnesota. Seems there was the front half of a carbon arrow stuck in a dead cat, with what appeared to be deer hair on the shaft. It would be interesting to know the story behind that one. So the cat was repurposed, I had a string, brother n law got a grizzly head, win / win. The bow was finished up and presented to Justin at camp. He seemed tickled with it & seemed to shoot it well. That helped overcome the looks, which I admit, is strange at first. His only complaint was it seemed to have a strange smell to it at full draw, that was just- new bow smell, I explained, it'll fade over time. The rest you all have seen here. It's doubtful I'll build another, as I prefer my longbows, and I don't take criticism well, one guy calling it a piece of sh*t. It was fun to build, and fun to help a brother out.

Longbowdave, glad to see you're ok. Correct me if I'm wrong. As far as the so called mechanical advantage goes, I think it goes to the shooter. Without one of those speedometer things to shoot thru, I don't think the bow is any faster than any well designed r/d longbow @56 #.

Wasn't designed to be better, no doubt many are faster, maybe they all are? Just easier for the boy to shoot

Dave, I applaud you for setting the record straight. I also mourn in my heart that you have decided against marketing these things. I know they and you both have a lot to offer the traditional community. But, I understand your feelings and am just happy I got my longpound.

As promised. The story of the hunt.

Friday morning was cold. The temp was somewhere in the low 20’s. But, the humidity was high with the aaproachi g snow storm. We left camp early as the hike is long. I departed the trail about the 2 mile mark and ascended the mountain to a ground blind. I arrived well before daylight to wait.

As day light came, so did the feelings that accompany it. The feelings only a true hunter knows. I’m not talking about a rifle or compound hunter. I’m talking about the ground dwelling, back quiver toting, traditional hunter feels. “ Will the deer come close enough? Will I hold true to spirit and bow to lethally harvest my prize? Am I going to be able to pull this off without being seen?” Etc... those were just a few of my thoughts as I lay in ambush.

About 8:30 I began to see deer. All were out of range. But, I was seeing deer. That’s what counts. Along about 11:30, I saw another deer. I could see his modest rack in the sun. Even at 120 yards. I gave him a couple grunts to try and pull him my way. He obliged by coming to 41 yards. He wouldn’t come any closer. So, I drew, anchored, burned a hole, and the next thing you know, the arrow was gone. It’s all a blur really. Next thing I know I hear the certain impact of my arrow. The deers reaction was one typical of a good shot. Head low death charge out of sight. Then, all was quite.

I waited a while and took up the track. He traveled 68 yards from the shot. Best of all, we ate his heart the following night. Killers we are. Pure, cold blooded, killing machines. Regardless if it’s a compound or trad bow like the longpound.

I want to say thank you to Dave for building this bow. Thank you to stickbiw21 for being my shooting coach. Thank you to all my friends here who have supported me through this. I really didn’t know how I was going to go on not being a traditional archer any more. Now I don’t have to worry about that. And, I want to thank all my camp members for listening to me cry and moan about my prior situation. Pic of the beast to follow.

Your friend did a nice job and put a lot of thought in that bow. The Frankenbow gets my vote. Or maybe the Square wheel. I like it. Whether it is 40# or 70#, 30 caliber or 20 caliber, 12 guage or 20 guage. It's the person out hunting that harvest the deer. Good luck

Justin, A meeting takes place in a company owner's office. Present are two designers, three engineers, an alloy expert, a machine shop owner, a powder coating expert and several other manufacturing experts. A few months later,space age risers are popping off the assembly line like popcorn. Yankee Doodle Davey designs and hand builds a wooden longbow, though somewhat unusual, in his crappy little shop in Pennsylvania. Which is more traditional? No need for you to worry if your bow is trad or not.

I agree Dave. It’s as traditional as any other grad bow made. Handmade, right here in the good ole USA. By a Korean American. With Korean wood that resembles American Hardwood. Far better than any trad tech or ILF bow made. Any where.

LOL! I don't care who's feelings I've hurt! Anyone who builds a bow with square wheels, for a wounded friend or not, should be thrown into the same camp with lefties and excommunicated from the bowhunting fraternity. Plus, said square-wheeled bow should be burned at the stake! Imagine riding a bike with square wheels. Enough said.

Joe

I didn't know what material the string was. Glad we found out. I really liked it. I would like to have one on my White Wolf.

The string itself is more trad than Fast-Flite. Even Dacron for that matter.

I will say this is a traditional bow. Square wheels are NO mechanical advantage! This is not even as advanced as those old Mongolian "compound" recurves.

Joe

Is this all wood compound bow left strung all of the time? If so, what will prevent it from taking a set over time. Most folks on here, if not all, unstring their self bows when they are done shooting. One thing for sure, when you go to bed at night and get up in the morning you are still going to have a compound bow, no matter what you call it. bvd

It's a trad bow. Not a compound. A compound has wheels. This one has squeels. A compound is made form aluminum, carbon, and a sort of other things. This one is made from 4 small metal dowels, glue, and wood. I understand this bow isn't for everyone. But, it is a trad bow.

Yes, it has squeels, even if my spell-check keeps changing it to squeals. It's traditional. To be honest, it's no uglier than a Border or Widdow.

Joe

You are so right Joe.

Craig, It is ugly kinda. But, it's a killer. It sorta reminds me of me. I'm not interested on what the high fluting archery rules say either because a good bit of their classes aren't traditional anyways.

This bow is a trad bow

Actually, this device produces 4 speed bumps at release, as the square wheels turn. This creates a slingshot effect that should increase speed and smooth out arrow flight. I'd rank it about equal to the average Widda.

Joe

Only two Joe. The first if right at the millisecond the string is released. The second comes right before the squeels return to him. It truly does give the bow a slingshot release.

It’s all in the Squeels. It can be timed for the slingshot motions based on draw length. Had I a long draw, I could get three bumps in trajectory instead of two. It really is a superior design that brings new life to a trad bow.

There may be other shapes that may work better for different draws. A triangle for instance, would have longer sides, but would have a more violent "cam" effect. I really didn't realize I had thing for shapes, until my grandsons were born last year. They have those ball things that you put the plastic shapes in, I can beat them easily at putting the pieces in. With some guys it's numbers, me? I like shapes...

Good Grief....

So, I'm sitting here, writing out a check for my credit card, and I see a PM Message from "longbowdave"!

YAY! Kinda like getting a phone call from someone ya haven't heard from for a while, other than a creditor. Anyhow, longbowdave and my acquaintance go back, oh, maybe 5 or so years, to Denton, then to Pine Hill last year.

At Pine Hill, he made this breakfast entity that was interestingly tasty. And, I think our crew gave him a beverage or two. The breakfast entity had some mushrooms, and after eating it/them, well, things got hazy, and I don't quite remember much...other than singing "Inna Gadda DaVida"...backwards...

ANYHOW: I would be grandly honored to have an inventionous bow from longbowdave. He is a man of great integrity, of ingenuity, of the most upstanding kind within his family, though I must admit his accent is a bit tough to understand. But he does use hand gestures a lot, which ultimately makes the point.

And the point of this post is that: folks, it's December 7, 2017. THe Leatherwall is a place I check into every day, if even just to peruse the topics for a moment or two. Sometimes, the threads are point on, so to speak. Sometimes, the information given out by the thread is incredible stuff. And sometimes, the intent is to make people smile.

I'm smiling after reading all the posts, and I'm quite glad to see the names of folks I haven't heard from for a while. This thread has brought us together; let's smile about it, shake our heads, and see what the true intent is!

Boy oh boy, I wish I were at that hunting camp, when this was all created.

By any chance, WV Mountaineer, longbowdave didn't make that mushroomy breakfast, did he??!!

Aloha & 73! de HARRY CARRY / HC

I shot the bow and I don't think the actual arrow speed was any faster than my son's 54# Big Jim's Buffalo.

Longbowdave, could you or would you get me enough cat gut to make a string for my longbow. I really liked it when I shot Justin's bow. I know me and you have issues. I knew that when you gave everyone in camp one of your neat arrow holders except me. Remember I'm the one who waited 3 hours in a freezing rain at the trailhead to carry your stuff up to camp. You owe me. Secondly, not sure where Austin is on I - 90 but I have traveled I - 35 fo Owatonna Minn. and traveled I - 90 west from Albert Lea. Does seam to be a large cat population. I can imagine a lot of them getting run over but to find one with the front part of an arrow in it is most puzzling. How many bow strings can you get from one cat?

Harry Carry, This year Dave made lemon-blueberry Pancakes several times for breakfast. H smoked a turkey for thanksgiving with sides. Come to think of it, it did seem like those days h made breakfast just flew by in a confusing blur. Otherwise, he is a superior cook.

It is pretty obvious those that are jealous of such a grand bow, after reading these posts.

I can see where this bow could be confused with one made by Big Jim or Widda. I think a J.D. Berry might be faster than them all though.

Joe

I'm sure it depends on cat size, but there's enough for several normal bow strings I'd say. It's work cleaning, drying & stretching, but I can try to hook you up if the right donor comes along. You seemed more interested in baconators than arrow holders, or I'd have given you mine. Next time I make some up, I'll do one up special for you. I just got a bedazzler, so I'll put some shiny stuff on it for ya

"So, do you guys think this here trad how can handle the sexier, kill'em deader heads like rage? Seems maybe the mechanical advantage of this bow may develop greater energy?"

It most certainly generates more energy than any plain trad bow. Korean Dave and lost arrw are being modest. This thing smokes an arrow. I shot completely through that deer at 41 yards. Most here shot the at 7 yards and don't get pass through's with their trad bows. What's that tell you?

Dave, I'm gonna need one for my new longpound too.

I can make a square one to match your bow if you'd like

That'll work

IN the Leatherwall history, was there not a thread about "How Many Arrows Does It Take To Kill A Dead Cow", or something like that?

Well, in relation, from the explanation of violin strings and bow strings, and their origins, does not this beg to be asked:

"How many bowstrings CAN you get from a cat?"

I suppose you folks using cat sinew for strings also use Cat Whiskers?

Joe

You can use the cat hides to make the head on a fretless banjo. Like the folks around Rabun Gap do. bvd

A good traditional bow, even an ILF rig will blow that wooden pulley bow out of the water. You can't hold 50#? So what, hold 40#. When my mentor who always shot 60#+ was getting too weak because of all the cancer medication they gave him and this stuff was really eating away on him together with the cancer, his 38# recurve which I set up with heavy arrows and good FOC killed him his last 3 deer before he died before the next year's deer season. This combination was doing just fine and was "traditional to the bone". For my mentors grandson, I just put together a training bow he will shoot for a while and going up in # before he can shoot his two inherited 55# bows. A 17" ILF wood riser for $160 and the Galaxy foam/glass limbs in medium for $120. This bow pulls around 40# @28" and will be shot with 1916 aluminums at around 12 grain/#. I have no doubt that this combination will kill any deer from Florida to Alaska if used with a good 2 balde broadhead with a thick blade, like a silverflame etc. The thicker blades give good blood trails in comparison to the thin 2 blades. If you would loose your middlefinger and your ring finger on your draw hand, would you use a mechanical release or change to a thumb ring? And in all honesty, I would give you more flack for using this wooden sqheel bow than a real compound. And I despise compounds.

And the following sentence: I shot completely through this deer at 41 yards tells me, that you have not gotten rid of the compound mindset at all. And now tell me why a 40# at 18 yards is unethical in comparison to this sqhueel bow at 41 yards?? This thing is not even close to "trad to the bone". For me it is "wanna be trad to the bone, but don't want the limitations of traditional equipment".

According to catfancy.com, they classify 72 different breeds of domestic cats.

Depending on environments, food source, and breeding the usual amount of “cat- gut” retrieved and processed will yield 45 feet of material which after dried will make two solid bow strings or 4 complete violins.

Now as for cat whiskers. Absolutely. Put those on your string and you can find your way around in the dark.

Best keep it simple Mark, two classes, live & dead. That many different breeds & there'll be an endless debate here about which breed for certain poundages.

Good info Stickbow 21, hope Frisky checks in. He probably has a cat to pass away occasionally. Maybe the species isn't to important. The diameter of the string on Justin's bow was a good nock fit without serving. Felt good on bare fingers.

Yes, he probably meant 14 yards. He's just crosseyed.

Joe

I meant 41 yards Craig. My mind doesnt limit my traditional abilities. Nor does my bow. When i shot a normal stickbow, i routinely killed things that far too.

Good info Mark. You are not only a superb archery coach, you are a scholar of all things. I should have expected your investigation i to that matter After seeing the superior atrributes of the string material.

Frisky Joe, i am not cross eyed. I have a lazy eye. There is a difference.

Korean Dave, tell your brother in law to be very observant when going through frisky neck of the woods again. We need more string.

I almost forgot. Tecum, thats great. I aplore you for being a good friend. However, trying to compare an i ferior bow to my new trad bow is being a bit u realistic. This thing is going to rewrite the history books. Shoots hard and fast. Is quite too. And, it dies it all with traditional material. You talk of your glass foam limbs etc.... im hunting with a bow thats all wood minus 4 itty bitty metals rivets. With wood arrows too. No aluminuim crap meant to replace traditional materials. So, this bow is more trad than anything you got. Trad to the bone.

Justin, first I need to say I still don't think your bow is any faster than any other fast r/d longbow. Why don't you take it to one of the shops and shoot it thru one of those speed things? Secondly, when applied to the GADTARE guide lines your bow is definitely traditional. Putting Chrysler hub caps on a Plymouth doesn't make it a Chrysler. Putting squeals on a wooden longbow doesn't make it a compound.

Right. The fact that the squeels offer a mechanical advantage doesn't mean it falls under the definition of a compound any more than putting a motor on a bicycle makes it a motorcy... oh wait.

My last tattoo was GADTARE, Dave. Got it right over my heart, for obvious reasons. I had it written in Korean though

Well that's just great, Yankee Doodle Davey. Its snowing so I'm heading out to shoot something. Love the snow.

Im out of town right now. Im going to be hunting again next weekend. Hopefully, I'll get the chance to use the longpound again. Somethings are likely to die.

Congrats on your new bow and your successful hunting season.

Well, that ain't something you see everyday, "square cam, longbow"? What everworks for you, what's the let off?

(my $.02 on the draw weight issue: it's not all about the poundage, rather the limb design. For instance, take a 66" long, 50# self bow. It will not preform as well as a 66" long, 45# laminated D/R bow that has had attention to detail put into the limb design. Because the self bow has more mass throughout the limbs. Same can be said between two laminated longbows, it's all about the design, the one with less mass and better recovery in the limb material/design will perform better than one of higher draw weight without the attention to detail. Additionally, we need to take modern low stretch string material into consideration as well. But if the a guy's conscience is keeping him from hunting with a bow under 50# then he needs to do what he's at peace with doing)

https://www.ranker.com/list/famous-engineers-from- poland/reference

jk, that link doesn't work

This should fix his link:

https://www.ranker.com/list/famous-engineers-from-poland/reference

Mike, the sequels do most of the work. There is some limb flex at full draw but it is very minimal. Let off is somewhere around 90% I’m guessing. I chrono’ed it this past weekend. It shot a 5 shot average of 214 fps with a 590 grain arrow. It’s a smoker.

Justin, I stand corrected. I didn't think it was that fast. Maybe my short draw and 72 year old slow motion release made it seem slower.

It was actually slower than I expected.

If you shoot it for a year, I'll bring down a dozen sqarrows to camp when I come

I'll do it. I'll be expecting them now.

Longbowdave, if you drive through Greensburg on your way to next year's camp, with the sqarrows riding shotgun in your Landrover Series 1, please let me know. I have an incantation that I could bestow upon them, fair and square. Trust me.

Will do Randy :)

I don't believe this malarkey any longer! At first I was mildly interested considering all my ailments of the past few years limiting my shooting.....now I believe this is just one big scam! I am currently considering a Mathews Genesis! And I've never owned a bow with wheels! I draw the line at bows with gunstocks....I have guns.

Why SB: Do you seriously believe that Korean Dave, lost arrow, stickbow21, and myself would pull anyone’s leg? We are dedicated traditional bow hunters. It is our interest to help our brothers of the stick. Not build them up with false hope. I’m almost appalled that anyone would assume different. Good grief.

WV M, you wouldn't pull anyone's leg any more than Frisky and his crew would. bvd

Reread the post tradmt. I don’t know how to post a video.

Buster, I think you are pulling my leg.

Are you the original WV M? The original WV M always put a God Bless at the end of his posts. Don't see that on any of your posts. bvd

I don't know how to post a video. I can't even post a picture. If I could I would like to get into the first shot thread.

Its the real McCoy buster..

I am the real deal. The one and only. The numero uno WH Mountaineer.

Buster, I have stated in the past why some of posts closings do not contain those words of well wishing.

Excuse my ignorance, WV M, I wasn't aware of that. bvd

Well....SOMEBODY posted some pictures! Have THEM post a video! This is getting as deep as Friskys threads!.....no offense Joe!

In order to post a video, I'm under the understanding you must have a host. Like you tube, Vimeo, etc... I do not have the know how to do such things. Nor do my fellow traditional camp mate's. We are traditional bowhunters. Not computer science majors.

WV M, I bet if you sent George D. Stout a couple of 'Traditional' quarts of "White", he could show yous guys how to post a video. ;) bvd

Yeah..I hear that! I have serious issues with just posting a pic!

What exactly do you want to see? Me killing a deer with it? You have already seen that. I'm not sure what this questioning has to do with this bow. This bow is soon to bypass the Legend's in notoriety. Because it is an ICON. Not a pesky wannabe Legend. But, an ICON. Don't doubt it.

We did not see you kill a deer with it. We did see a picture of a dead deer with your compound bow in the picture. bvd

I'll see what I can do Wayne. Gonna be a bit though as I'm hunting on the weekends and, I leave and get home in the dark during the week. Give me a bit.

Buster, that bow isn't a compound. You know that. It's a TRAD bow. Don't let your jealousy cloud your judgement.

You can step in a pile of horse apples and call it mashed potatoes if you want, but it is still horse apples. bvd

Good Grief.

Next thing you know somebody is going to insist on seeing videos of the daily First Shot instead of pictures. I'll never get to participate.

The First Shot guys aren't trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. ;) bvd

What ?

We're going to need a video of that purse making thing.

Not sure that any of the guys I know are wanting to make purses.

There are several pics of a sow's ear on this thread that are being pawned of as a silk purse. LOL bvd

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