I just finished an article in primitive archer about performance selfbows. A 58 #self bow was shooting a 540 grain arrow 195fps. I know I know speed isn’t everything but man that sure seems fast for an all wood bow. Have I been selling these types of bows short are they truly capable of this kind of performance. I’m a very unskilled novice at bow making but my bows I don’t think come anywhere near that efficiency. What say the wall

That's faster than mine.

I'll wait and see what badger and some of the guys say. I do know that I have made straight selfbows that are just as fast as my laminated Hills and so on. But they don't shoot 195.

This one had small static curves and backset 6 inches

That is an awful fast speed, I do know they have that capability. I don't make extreme recurved designs but I have hit 188 at 10 grains and 28" draw. I know Mark St Louis has hit 190 with his recurves as I tested them on a shooting machine., I have had fresh bows not broken in reach speeds like that but always fell back after a dozen or so shots went through them.

If a self bow doesn't take any set it can be equal to a glass or carbon bow of similar profile. If the bow shown above had 6" backset and hadn't taken much set from its original profile I could believe that speed. With a 580 grain arrow that bow would be about 190 fps.

Once you get to that high level an independent reliable test would make it a lot more believable. Good self bows are commonly in the mid 170's now and 180 is not unusual.

That’s exactly who it was badger that’s amazing you guys are so very talented

I have a true pignut hickory flat limb that shoot in the 160s with 9 grain per pound arrows. high 160s for the first arrows, 30 minutes later in the low 160s, I am drawing it 26.5". It seems as fast as most Hill bows that have shot. I don't know if that is fast or average. It is not as fast as my Berry bows or my Sunset Hill, but it shoots nice and did shoot through a deer once and killed some rabbits and a pheasant really dead.

ha ha ha I think mine maybe in the 160's,,,,,, do any of you remember when the kids ran the chrono in denton hill maybe 15 or 20yrs ago I think for a buck an arrow? I remember when a bunch of selfbow guys chronoed their bows I think the fastest was 150's and this guy said he killed a boat load of deer with it.

I think I’m around 150 but can’t say for sure on my last one. Folks don’t want me shooting their bows with my 30.5 draw so can’t really compare other self bows.

Mine certainly aren't that fast but one shoots around 175 with a heavy arrow - which is about what my Great Northern Ghost shoots.

Bow poundage + 100 is where most selfbows fall in the speed department.

I used to chrono mine but was always disappointed, they get the job done. My latest osage static recurve seems to be scorchingly fast but I haven't chronoed it.

They are a little slower but most self bows are way quieter. A slow self bow with a heavy arrow won't shoot any different at 15 yards than your recurves and longbows but past 20 yards the slower arrow drops like a rock.

Dkincaid, what issue was that article in? Jawge

Chronographs, and their manipulation are the bane of the sport for many arhcers. Folks get sucked into thinking that you 'need' this or that to be an effective hunter, even in light of years of success that prove otherwise. I imagine that some of the best bows have been set aside for a 'better' product. Usually your own numbers end up a lot lower than what is advertised. I think Eric Krewson hit on what you can expect from a well designed selfbow, radical designs aside.

Will you got that right. They spoil our ears. ALL other bows seem loud in comparison. Whenever I switch over to a glasser it takes me several days to adjust my ears and expectations.

In the 90s I was doing allot of experimentation with a chronograph and natural material bows. Best speed was a hickory pyramid sinew backed static recurve with 6" of reflex measured at the tips. 215 fps with 65# bow and 550 grain wood arrow, dynamic release (grip and rip) for the first few shots only. It degraded very quickly as the hickory took on moisture in the Eastern Michigan climate. Now I aim for identical performance (same draw, length, and arrow) as a mild R/D laminated glass and wood/bamboo longbow such as great northern critter gitter and Steve Abbott longbow/style. 160-166 FPS with 680 grain arrow and 60#ish draw weight, drawn to 28" Currently making them 67" nock to nock. This is ideal hunting weight/speed IMHO. dead quiet and plenty fast for any hunting shoot/range I will ever do.

I would not think it is possible for a selfbow without any sinew or rawhide backing...even with flipped tips if the speed was calculated using AMO standard of 9 grains per pound with 60@28 bow. with any speed claims you got to know what the arrow weight, bow weight at 28", and how far the shooter actually drew the arrow before shooting...did he stop at 28" or do we need to factor in him drawing 29 or 30 inches? I dont get too excited about high speed claims as 99.9% of the time they are erroneous or the shooter was using IBO or just pulling it as far as they could with a very light arrow and only boasting on the speed without any of the details that really make a difference.

keep em sharp,

ron herman

I would like to see how that bow was tested. I've done a lot of testing and those numbers blow any fiberglass bow out of the water. I personally don't believe it unless that thing was drawn exceptionally far. The vast majority of self bows drawn 28" with 9gpp arrow and fast flight string would be lucky to hit 160. Your fortunate to get a fiberglass hill bow to hit 165.

I agree, those are very false numbers.

Some years ago I was in the shop of a very well known Montana bowyer, he constantly got 10-15fps faster than I did. I brought my chrono with me and we set them up in tandem, again 13fps faster than mine. So I examined both units and found that his chrono the same brand and model as mine one of the screens had come loose and moved less than 1/8" closer to the second screen. So check your screen for proper placement, it can make a difference.

Bob

195fps for a 540 gr from a #58@28 selfbow? From where can I get the template? My vintage SK shoots in the 170fps's range a 540 gr arrow - #56@28" - with Dacron string.

I’ll look when I get home I can’t remember the issue but it’s on the nightstand.

I read crazy self bow claims quite often, one fella in particular is always spewing BS numbers. Some of the stuff PA has been publishing lately is ridiculous. Like the feature article about collecting protected feathers from beaches.......dddduuuhhhh

On a grey day I shoot the SK above through a chrono and indicated 2 times 242fps. I disregarded those numbers and shoot other 10 times and the numbers were back to normal: between 170 and 173fps range.

I have seen pictures of Marc's white wood bows, and what he is doing with wood that IMHO is not even worth cutting for firewood is pretty amazing. And that is just the appearance. Given the photo's of the bows those numbers do not seem impossible. In my tests the BBOs post superior numbers to glass lam bows of similar profile. Lam glass only replaced wood/sinew bows because of ease and cost of mass production, not advantage in performance.

I have seen pictures of Marc's white wood bows, and what he is doing with wood that IMHO is not even worth cutting for firewood is pretty amazing. And that is just the appearance. Given the photo's of the bows those numbers do not seem impossible. In my tests the BBOs post superior numbers to glass lam bows of similar profile. Lam glass only replaced wood/sinew bows because of ease and cost of mass production, not advantage in performance.

I am waiting for template first. Or the pic for what is worth. Just don't tell me the selfbow is an asian style one.

I can see speed increased to 10-15fps more than the average for extra 10 lbs of bow power. Data from Primitive technology :

Asymmetrical : 135 fps Straight stave : 150 fps Deflex tips: 140 fps Reflex tips: 155 fps Non-contact reflex: 155 fps Contact recurve: 165 fps Deflex recurve: 165 fps Triple recurve: 165 fps Setback limbs: 152 fps Reflex recurve composite Asian bow: 180 fps

PS The speeds were calculated for 500gr arrow and #50 bows

Show the bow and the chrono shooting 10 arrows through it and get it done with it. PS Are you talking about Marc St. Louis bowyer's bows? The heat tempered ones?

From what I know he is the single one who made several at 180fps for 10gr arrow, and just vey few are above 190fps. The funny part is you disregard the data I provided saying these "where not tested" but his design falls exactly in those limits.

When Marc made "White Lightening" for me it shot over 190fps with a hunting weight arrow and was shot and measured by several different people/chronographs...it is definitely an extreme design that was made for speed.

Data shows averages. Now you don't have to convince me. Whoever is replicating an asian style of bow will get better speed than the rest. But this is not the usual efficiency of a selfbow, is the exception from the rule.

One huge factor in self bow performance is how well the bowyer protects the integrity of the wood during the tillering process. A bow can easily loose an additional 10% of it power to hysteresis in a bow with damaged wood fibers. Extreme designs on self bows don't reap any benefits if they surpass the woods ability to maintain its integrity. This is why wood bows are made from wood and Asiatic bows are made from horn. They have different properties that require different designs.

Thanks, DKincaid. George

well ok here is my laymen take,, that arrow is less than 10gpp and there are wood bows that will shoot 180 plus with 10 gpp,, so 185 or so with the lighter arrow would be possile,, now to the 195,,hmmm well if the bow was really special and the shooter had a good release I can see that,, ,, if it was Marc that got that results, I dont doubt it,,

Selfbows will "efficiently" make meat so I could care less how fast they are:) I enjoy shooting them for what they are, primitive bows. I'm not knocking the guys who enjoy getting all they can out of these bows. I've owned bows built by Badger, Marc and Pearl Drums and they are truly amazing.

I was told by one who knows more than me about hickory species, that pignut is tougher than shag bark, but both need to be super dry to work right. Moisture got to mine so I sanded the finish off. Shellac may look nice on a white wood bow, but it is worthless as a weather seal. I put it in a furnace duct for a winter. I was told to blow torch the belly while taking some of the set out of it. Then I reworked it and shortened it to 64", I am not sure what I did right but it shot a lot better. I am going to lower its draw weight from the belly side. I think this time I will do all of the retiller before I heat up the belly, then light sand that before spraying it. I was asked to build a couple, but this thing is just a revolving experiment for me. I got the flat limb idea after shooting a Stotler longbow. It is like a Stotler pignut selfbow.

lots of guys are into flight shooting , speed is part of that,,just another aspect of archery that holds intrest to some,, some liike to hunt ,, some target and some flight, all takes a different approach and different bow for each application,, its not a one bow fits all sport,, the guys shooting wood bows dont really care that much what fiberglass will do,, its a non issue,, making wood bows is pretty diverse and then the guys that make the horn composite bows are a whole nother story,,

I used to chase speed quite a bit but for the last several years I have just settled into a slightly reflexed longbow design around 66" plus or minus a little. They perform well and I haven't broken one in years. The bows I have used to set flight records with were actually very conservative designs. I think proper building techniques take care of most of the performance issues.

""I would think a selfbow can withstand lighter weight arrows much better than a lam bow. There's nothing to delaminate. In a way you can leverage that to your advantage if you can shoot a heavier bow.""

We have guys shooting 150 grain arrows from 100# bows on occassion. The bows seldom break unless the string breaks.

There are many things I concern myself with when it comes to selfbow 'performance' but fps isn't really one of them. I was talked into shooting a bow through a chrono once in my life, at that Denton Hill setup Tague mentioned many years ago, and it wasn't a selfbow, it was hickory backed black cherry with mild overall reflex I happened to be carrying at the time. It did good, but I haven't been inspired to do it again.

Of course I want my bows to be efficient... that is, efficient within the bounds of other aspects that I find more valuable for hunting weapons I would trust with my life. I won't sacrifice durability, reliability, quietness, stability, or heck, even good looks... for a little more speed. That's just me. I'm a classic daily driver kind of guy, but I get it... some guys are into drag cars, and building new motors after each run, and that's cool too.

I do know that a cedar arrow that is 500 grains with a Hunter's Head broadhead going 155 to 160 fps will shoot through the lungs and one rib on a 150 pound Iowa whitetail, plus a couple of yards. When such a bow gets water logged, then speed matters to a point. Past that point, other things like feel and accuracy and stability is what keeps it fun. Just like the pictures I was showed of a Canadian bull moose by the Canadian that did the shooting. He used a sinew backed osage flat limb, 56", perhaps 55 pounds at 26" was his guess, slim obsidian heads. The first arrow malfunctioned on contact, the second arrow came out the opposite side. No matter the speed, it was enough, but a really cool package. The 56" bow was for shooting from a canoe. I appreciate it, when an adventure comes together like that.

Really good insights I enjoy The dialogue it’s getting me motivated to work some wood

My selfbow is around 55 to 58 lbs. and 66". I draw around 29" on that bow. It is the fastest selfbow I've shot other have a Cherokee bow. I shoot a 23/64th shaft so I have a heavy shaft the bow is faster than my owl and close but not as faster as my Robertsons. No where close to my Tall Tine recurve. All that being said I have never chrono'd any of the bows. I really don't care as long as I have great arrow flight and the bow hits where I'm looking. Straight flying arrows will out penetrate faster wobbly arrows. What I have noticed is a Hugh difference when shooting deer. I always feel like there's not enough speed and energy when I shoot a deer with a selfbow. It may be in part on how quiet they are and the lack of hand shock. There is a difference. I think it may be mental, just the perception. But I have shot through every deer and turkey that I've ever shot. Including those with stone tips. There has been more than enough energy. I would guess the bow shoots 165 to 175. I wish I could build a long selfbow that would shoot my big shafts 195. My hats off to you for your work.

Now you all know a AW 50 # bow shoots 500 gr. arrow 300 feet per second. Arvin

Bluesman, I agree that using arrow weight to chase speed is kind of pointless. With a 120 grain arrow I have clocked 300 fps from a self bow but a 120 grain arrow is useless for anything but flight shooting.

Ummmm I don't know about that.

If you look at the above picture of the white lightening bow it is very easy to believe that it hit 190 fps at 10 grains per pound. A lot of features in that bow demonstrate very advanced knowledge of design and wood. And it was skillfully executed.

I look at that thing and I am wondering is the Bears with static limbs had a similar speed. The image says squat unless you read the bow was heat treated.

The image says squat? Better get some stronger readers, or experience. Either would work.

Altizer, If your faster arrows are wobbly in flight there is something wrong. You can absolutely tune a fast bow/arrow setup for perfect arrow flight.

That said,, I don't get too hung up on chrono numbers when making a wooden bow. If I do *my* part in crafting they will be good performers. The best I have done is mid 180's with a selfbow at 10 gpp but that was an exception for sure. I'm more concerned with a stable friendly shooting bow that has a grip fashioned for me and the way I soot. If I have that, and the bow isn't a dog, I'm good.

Bluesman, the title of the thread was about self bow efficiency. So with a title like that and the specific question he asked about a specific bow I would expect that the conversation would lean toward what they are capable of. It doesn't mean that's what all these guys are expecting from every bow.

it is not just 9gpp for AMO but also it is drawn a max of 60# of weight to 30 inches draw length....

just meeting the 9gpp is not enough...as if a 70# bow or drawn 32 inches it will be different.

I want to see on video the bow being shot 5 times through chrono with AMO standards of no more than 30 inches and no more than 60# at draw length with 9gpp arrow setup...and the overall speeds avg that amount claimed with NO backing on bow....as the OP said selfbow...so no bamboo, no hide, no sinew, no horn...nothing but a single piece of wood.

keep em sharp,

ron herman

Self bow guys have settled into a 10 grains per pound and 28" draw as our standard. We swim in a different ocean.

PEARL DRUMS, read again what I said. The image says squat if is a 175fps or 200fps - it says it is a possible high speed design. Nothing about speed for specific arrows. Get your facts straight. Badger was praising the White Lightening. If you don't know the wood, the way it was treated you will never know

How many bows have you built? About as many deer as you have killed with a bow Id bet. ZERO.

Seems you and I cant be friends after all.

Tell me the speed of this bow, and after you ask me about what I did.

That's a '55 Bear static. Probably has sugar maple lams with old school woven glass. 152 fps with a 500 grain arrow.

A bit more if you shoot a #60 bow - a friend of mine has one and shoots in the 160fps. But it's interesting, you didn't said the speed just looking to the bow geometry. You started to think material. Thank you, you just proved my point.

Geometry of something includes tips. OK gents, you are right.

Another lucky guess, similar to my assessment of Marcs bow above.

Your first post here was : "I agree, those are very false numbers." Until I pushed to find what type of bow and who made it, you were way off. Dialog is over from now on. Regards

I think alot of knowlege that was lost in time,,,, is being re discoverd,, and the wood bow can shoot really well,, especially in hunting situations where it can be as effective as any bow,, even the compound,, for taking game ,, and bow makers are still getting better and better,, at making self bows,, composite wood bows and sinew bows that are very effeceint and deadly,,,,:) horn wood bows too,,

Any bow that is of decent weight, regardless of what it's made of, will kill game with the proper arrow and good arrow flight. The bows made in 1957 will perform as well as most made in 2017 of the same design, given all else being equal ... including string material.

Here's what an old, pretty severe string-follow, lemonwood longbow can do. This buck would have been near 180 pounds live weight. The bow, at 52# at my draw, likely had an initial velocity of maybe 150 fps with the wind behind it. A cedar arrow with a Howard Hill head, buried up to the feathers and totally skewered this buck. The shot was from the ground and at about 9 yards more or less. The bow was whisper quiet and very accurate. The year was 1992.

thanks George thats a nice way to test effeceicy, and good eatin,, not sure how you test that,,,, :)

Iktomi, You are right about something being wrong if you have a wobbly arrow. I don't have that problem unless I shoot the wrong spine and it will still stabilize but hit somewhere different than I am looking. My point is that I've seen bad flight affect and speed penetration. Especially with light arrows. Compounds are really bad for it. Tuning the bow, tuning the arrow is the key. I worry about accuracy and consistency way more than speed. That being said my bow is fast. It still amazes me how fast a piece of wood can be.

George, That photo and story is awesome. The selfbows are so much fun. A whole lot of satisfaction in making a bow that performs well and take a deer with it. I feel sorry for those that never shoot or hunt with one.

Brad you test that in the frying pan! Arvin

THE 100 AND BOW WEIGHT IS WHAT I GO BY.MOST OF MY BOWS ARE BUILT 45 TO 50 LBS.NOT ALL BUT MOST WILL NOT MAKE THE NUMBERS.MY 45LBS SHOOT ANY WERE FROM FROM 138 TO 143 FPS,AND MY 50LB BOWS SHOOT 144 TO 148,WITH A FEW THAT HIT MARK 150 AT 50 POUNDS,BUT AT 9 GRS PER P0UND ARROW WEIGHT. I LIMIT MY SHOTS ON DEER TO 15YDS MAX, AND USE A VERY SHARP BROADHEAD.VERY FEW OF MY SHOTS HAVE CLEARED THE DEER,BUT MOST HAVE PENETRATED TO THE FEATHERS AND MY KILL RATE IS VERY GOOD.I JUST CAN NOT MAKE REALLY FAST SELFBOWS,AND MY DRAW IS ONLY 26 INCHES. I KNOW MY LIMITATIONS, AND LIVE BY THEM.SOMETIMES TO SQUEEZE A FEW FPS I PUT TIP OVERLAYS OF BUFFALO HORN AND ADD A 10 STRAND FF STRING.DO NOT LET LESS THAN AVERAGE BOW SPEED STOP YOU FROM HUNTING WITH YOUR OWN SELFBOWS, WHICH IS A REAL THRILL.JUST USE COMMON SENSE.

Bassman, please stop yelling at us. Hit your caps lock button. I refuse to even read it when someone does that. It hurts my eyes.

Clay Hayes just flipped the tips on an osage bow he has shot for years...The bow on his youtube channel he is giving away to a supporter. It is 50@28 with flipped tips at 64" long and it shot 173 fps on chrono with 550 gr arrow. That is 11 grains per inch.

So entirely possible with well built bow.

keep em sharp,

ron herman

Different woods will have different results, as does design, and how well it's put together/tillered. I don't own a chronograph, but from shooting many selfbows, a well made osage will shoot with about any. And, if I'm not mistaken, Russ Hoogerhyde won his first Nationals while using a lemonwood longbow back in the 1930's.

I've only ever shot one Yew and that thing was very snappy. One thing about not having a chrono, is you aren't ever disappointed by numbers, which can really screw up a good marriage between an archer and his already great bow.

One common misconception is that self bows have to be built on the edge to be fast. Just the opposite is proving to be true, building a self bow with less stress makes for a safer bow with less set and less hysteresis which is the biggest robber of power from self bows. Basic conservative designs that have taken little or no set are now hitting in the 180's shooting @10 grains per pound and drawing 28" with regularity. This puts them on a par with a lot of well made modern longbows.

agree....a hunter should not feel at a disadvantage for his weapon of choice if properly designed and completed based on woods best qualities. Cant make a hickory flatbow like a yew ELB...woods are too different. But you can have a very nice shooting selfbow of osage, yew, hickory, vine maple, etc if done to the woods strengths. Look at some of the results in the TBB Volumes...speaks volumes on design and experience of bowyer.

keep em sharp,

ron herman

Not trying to sneak a brag in here but a lot of times the best experience we have to talk about is our own. I currently hold the world record in the 50# self bow class and the 50# backed bow class. The self bow I used for the record was my favorite hunting and 3-D bow I had used for 3 or 4 years before even entering it in the flight competition. I continued to use the same bow for about 8 more years and performance continued to increase as the bow aged. The bow never took any set and never lost any weight, it actually gained a pound or two each year I had to remove. The bow was not a skinny low mass design at all, I think it was about 1 3/8 wide at the fades semi pyramid slight R/D. The backed bow was fresher but other wise same design. The distance between wood bows and modern longows was not all that much different. They shot arrows 50 grains heavier but they also got to use fast flight skinny strings while we are suing heavy bulky linen string about 4 times the weight so it kind of equals it out.

Very interesting Badger. Thanks for your experienced insight.

jeff durnell i will write everything in small letters not to hurt your eyes.i am not yelling at anyone,just stating my experiences with my selfbows.if large letters hurt your eyes you will never make a bowyer,and you need keen eyes to even make a decent selfbow.nuff said.

Grow up, bud.

i am not the wise guy here. you made first move man.you need to grow up.

Good thread Dkincaid. I enjoy all the self bow threads. Thank you gentleman for sharing your experience with the self bow. I always find these threads very interesting.

WHY DO YOU GUYS ALWAYS START FIGHTING OVER SILLY THINGS. My self bow is better than yours. Now don't be getting da green mit envy blues over it. I am making a couple of board bows for the little neighbor kids, I bet they will shoot an arrow from here to way over there.

At least he said please WHEN he asKEd. And, I AGREE, JEFF DURNELL WILL NEVER MAKE A GOOD bowyer OR BOW if HE CANT READ in all CAPS. You SUck Jeff DURNELLSKY.

Guys i am sorry,but sometimes unnecessary,condescending remarks call for a reponse.

Really guys?

Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha! great one Pearl Drums.

This is funny guys, I guess I fall into the same catagory as Jeff, I can't stand to read all large print, you can't tell when a sentence starts or ends, very monotonous especially with no spaces between anything.

This is how I take it, Bassman nothing against you at all.

It's just very difficult to read.

Where's George when we NEED HIM!?

Which George, Kwikdraw? George or Jawge?

I find it a bit unusual that Bassman does not know Jeff Durnell. Both PBS, both PA. Jeff has taught hundreds of folks how to build bows over more than a decade. I know Jeff, we swap wood, and I live 500 miles away. I can see how some folks would want to argue with Dean Torges or Dan Quillian (when they were alive), but Jeff? Like getting in an argument with Mister Rogers.

Its all in fun. No reason to get wound up tight. Its just an internet forum, after all.

Michael, you and Pearly Boi got me laughing my butt off over here. Mister Rogers? Wow. I don't know about that one.

I wish I had some time to practice my bow making. Every day it's something. My wife just called a few minutes ago and said the basement is flooded and she's gotta leave because the granddaughter is on her way to children's hospital, again. Great.

Bassman, you can type however ya want. There's nothing I'd rather talk about than bow making, I'm just saying, if a post is in all caps, I tend to skip over it. Nothing personal or condescending about it. I gotta run. Have a super wonderful day.

Well I'll say! I get in the high 170s with 500 gr. from 50# bows. Some reflex. I also get give or take 190-200 yds out of the same set up. Cast is more Important to me and more proof . Not saying chronos don't have there place So do the math and tell me my chrono is full of it. And yes Jeff , pearl , badger, Mark, and a host of others in this post know how to build a efficient bow! Let's make more bows! Arvin

I just re-read my post, it doesn't sound like I meant it to be. It sounded a little sarcastic, was not meant to be, sorry Bassman.

Now this is what I mean, telling Jeff Durnell that he can't make a descent bow it like telling Pearl Drums he can't tiller ............Ha!Ha!

Jeff, I just read your post above, is the granddaughter alright.

An indoor swimming pool, people pay big bucks for soemthing like that........sounds like you need a full time bilge pump.

Did Mr. Rodgers make bows too?

When I get one finished and all shot in, I shoot one of my hunting weight arrows across the hay field for distance. If it will fling an arrow 200 paces, I count it as a bow to kill a deer. I never shot through a chronograph-so I am not sure about FPS. I agree with Arvin about the cast. If Marc St. Louis made that claim, I wouldn’t doubt it. I have admired his creations for years. I have a couple of badgers bows and they both shoot right with my fiberglass bows, and have for some years now. Design and craftsmanship go a long way in the selfbow world.

Badger, I agree with you. Paul Comstock (Bent Stick) talked about how overbuilt bows performed really well compared to bows on the edge.

As far as cast being different from fps, can't see it. Makes no sense. All the energy an arrow will ever have is when it leaves the bow. Of course, there's wind resistance, air friction, etc. Nevertheless either one is a good way to measure bows.

Having said that I don't use chronographs. Don't care to. :)

Jawge

Sorry for the caps above.Hit the button by accident, and was all tied up in the thread. Meant nothing by it. Sorry again. Jeff please disregard my comments. Thank you.Do not want to cause any trouble,and you are better bowyer than i will ever be.I am a hunter that builds bows.A man should not react like that, and take such a defensive posture.Sorry to all above.

Some excellent facts to be learned from this thread. It is worth sorting through the nitpicking. Very talented bow makers always get my attention. I was hoping Arvin would chime in about speed. I didn't know he even chronographed. He always referred to distance cast when building my bow. I would have to go back and read what it did,don't remember. That is how important it is to me.What I do remember-- he killed a Wildebeest with a 47 pound at 26" draw with one of his. What I do know is mine shoots great but no idea exactly how fast.It is all good.>>>----> Ken

i love my wood bow,,,,:)

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