In preparation for my recent elk hunting trip to Colorado I fletched some arrows with Saunders NPV Arrow Mate cement.

I have used Bohning FletchTite Platinum to fletch dozens and dozens of arrows without any issues whatsoever, but decided to try the Saunders glue for some arrows for this trip, based on the rave reviews of several folks on this site

Really, really BIG mistake, never to be repeated, especially before a big hunt with a long hike in where I brought a limited number of shafts.

Within four days of arrival the feathers started coming loose like aspen leaves. It was the glue as I had also used some Fletch-Tite to do another six shafts that were in the quiver at the same time, and they were fine, as were some I had fletched with Platinum and used for stumping for six months.

As for prep, I scrubbed the aluminium shafts with Ajax, rinsed and dried them and then did a final wipe with pure alcohol when they went into the jig, just like I have always done.

I also found NPV to be difficult to use when I was actually fletching the arrows as it did not flow like the Bohning product and took a long time to set before I could remove the clamp.

I ended up using the applicator nozzle from an unused tube of Fletch-Tite as the one provided with the NPV was awkward to use.

Anyway, I now have to re-fletch two-dozen shafts and am out 72 premium feathers and a lot of time. The remainder of the NPV tube I used and another tube I bought are in the garbage, where they, in my opinion, rightfully belong.

Shame on me for placing my trust in an untested product...thank goodness I had extra shafts fletched with Fletch-Tite in the truck at the trailhead or I would have been totally hooped.

Wanted to share my practical, real life experience...don't depend on anecdotal evidence of a products worth from people who may never take their arrows out in adverse conditions and put them to the test.

Good to know. Thanks for sharing your experience in such detail.

Sorry it happened. Never tried it. Now I likely will not.

Your comment about the glue not flowing out tells me you got some bad stuff. As for the nozzle I don't see how you had an issue? Maybe because the glue was bad. Where did you buy the glue? I stopped using the Bohning glue for the same issue you had. Feathers and and vanes on bare aluminum shafts. I had been using Bohning glue for 30 years so I knew it was not a prep issue. I prep the same way you do. Bohning still works using wraps or Bohning paint.

Weird! have never had a problem with NPV, infact it has been the best I have ever tried

I dutch clenser the aluminums and rinse and wipe dry

Don't use any alcohol though (if not denatured it would have oils in it)

been using it with aluminums and carbons for years with never any problems (mostly aluminums)

sorry you had a problem

It's all I've used for years and wouldn't consider using anything else; been there and done that.

I'll assume, since it had a different consistency than I've ever seen, you've got a bad tube of it.

btw... some more anecdotal stuff... a local bow shop used alcohol to clean shafts; all the vanes fell off. I told him to use lacquer thinner or acetone and he never had any more problems.

I've had good results with NPV. I've had a tube of Bohning Platinum that was so weak, it couldn't even be called glue.

I had that same experience with Fletch tite, I was as mad as you are now. Glad it didn't blow your hunt up.

The alcohol was 99% pure...isopropyl...no issues with adhesion with glues nor should there be.

The glue had a consistency appropriate with being from a new tube...it just flowed differently than the Bohning.

I found the glue never got hard but had some pliability once set...I could see it lifting from the aluminium shaft after five days.

I've been using the platinum for years it's great stuff I sell a lot of arrows and have gone through a lot of it !!!

A couple of years ago i prepped some aluminum arrows just the same. Ajax till they sneaked easily. Then scrubbed with alcohol, the Platinum Fletch Tie. I noticed on back tracking on a trail that someone was using the same feathers as me had been there and was losing feathers. Then when I sat in a cedar shrub to call an answering turkey I saw another feather between my feet. Those four fletch feathers were falling like autumn leaves in the spring time. I now use fletch tape with a lead, middle and tail drop of Gorilla Super glue.

Did anyone who used NPV have their arrows get wet for four days straight?

That's a real world test of a fletching glue that I need my arrows to pass because when I am on a hunt living in a tent I am not bringing my arrows inside...they have to function through rain, hail, snow and heat.

isopropyl

there is your problem Skip the alcohol or Denatured

isopropyl has oil in it

Your fletching can be reused. NPV is essentially a rubber cement and can be peeled off the fletch quill by rubbing it with your thumb. After that, put the fletch in a fletching jig clamp and sand lightly with something like 100 grit paper, after which they'll be good as new and ready to use.

Yea mine get wet

rain wet grass in to creek and Dog brings them back well slobbered

have lost in woods for months and later found feathers still well attached

I think for the most part, folks on here give their honest opinion on the products they use. No reason to doubt folks that have had positive results from NPV - including me. But also no reason to doubt your bad experience either. Just another product that works for some and not for others. That's why folks should research before picking a product.

Also, I use a scotch-brite pad when scrubbing with Ajax to roughen up the shaft a bit. I have had similar experience to Andy Man in that I have found arrows lost for months in my yard. The feathers had been eaten down by bugs but the quill was still firmly attached to the shaft. YMMV.

--Steve

These things seem to be inexplicable. I had the same thing happen with Fletch Tite Platinum. In a bind I used super glue. It worked so much neater,and wayyyy faster. I never went back. I shared my experience back then. Funny, now all the archery supply places have their own brand of CA glue. The larger bottles with the needle spout lay such a neat line of glue,no extra glue all over the shafts and I have yet to have one come off.>>>----> Ken

Rubbing alcohol has oil in it and is isopropyl. Isopropyl is a typ4 of alcohol that comes in different concentrations. As you can see the alcohol I used is pure alcohol. It was not the problem.

And I use green Scotch-Brite pads to clean with the Ajax...prep was simply not the problem as it is the same as I use for Fletch- Tite.

The NPV was the problem as I fletched six arrows with the end of a tube of Fletch-Tite and they were subjected to the same conditions as the NPV shafts.

It was a glue failure.

Here is rubbing alcohol, also isopropyl, but 70% concentration with oil in it. I never use this.

To be clear...I do not think anyone misled me...my point was that Fletch-Tite is often maligned on the LW and this goes to show that any glue can fail badly.

What I was hoping to impart to everyone is that the arrows you bring on a hunt are ones that you have used in adverse conditions without issue.

Don't try something new.

Sorry Pete but it has worked better for me then the Fletchtite Platinum. I've even had one lost in my big bale for a week and it was fine when I took it out. You may have gotten a bad batch. I remember a few Fletchtite back in the 70's where we had feathers falling off arrows like shedding hair. That turned out to be a bad batch from the factory. We didn't throw all of it away, just sent back the ones with the same batch number to Kinseys where we bought them. Went another ten years without issues.

works on all shafts and fletching never any problems intell you change fletching takes some work to get it off the shafts.

Never a problem with NPV,do clean with denatured alcohol.The different alcohol seems to be a factor.We sell probably 300 tubes of NPV a year and NPV is all I use on carbon or aluminum,glad you had arrows to keep hunting with.

I use the same as birddog21. Have no problems with it. I do remove the tube from the plastic container.

I don't doubt you had issues especially in the wet conditions. Yes, a lesson learned and to be passed on to others. No doubt we may do things differently as well. I know I do. I only use DNA but not to clean shafts. I use either Acetone or Fletch Lac thinner even on carbons, especially on carbons. It may be stinky but it does the job for me. I may over do it according to some folks. But as has been stated I donot think prep was the issue. IMO for what it's worth you got bad glue. Either it was very old or maybe overheated or frozen before it arrived to you. As for bad experiences ask me about using tape and temps over 105 degrees!

I had the same thing happen with Duco on aluminum shafts. I use only acetone on alum. and the hafts were good and clean. Glued up good with Duco and they looked great. First shot, POOF! feathers all off. DOn't know why I grabbed the Duco, I guess I'm just used to using it on wood shafts. Seems it won't adhere well to the smooth surface. Brain fart I guess. I have always used acetone to prep with and otherwise, never had a feather pop off.

I spray all my shafts with BullDog Adhesion promoter and never have an issue. I just built a few aluminum arrows using duco and they are holding fine.

Duco works good on a crown with poly.

I have used Platinum Fletch Tite,Saunders NPV and Duco.The only problem I ever had was when I used Duco on aluminum,they slowly started falling off one at a time.I would just sand the quill alittle and reglue with Platinum.I normally use Duco on wood arrows with a polyurethane finish.But it was late and Duco w all I had at the time.Never had any problem using Saunders on aluminum.That is the glue I always used on aluminum.

I don't understand the Ajax scrubbing and stuff. I just wipe the shafts with lacquer thinner or MEK. Then I use Fletch-tite. Never have a problem. I only shoot Easton aluminums and have never tried NPV yet.

I sand my alumn arrows with 300 gr sandpaper at just where fletching goes. Never a problem with NPV or Fletch tite.

Ajax scrubbing is what the manufacturer recommends...degreases.

Either acetone or ajax will make them squeak, I enjoy that part, it irritates anyone near by when the shaft really gets to howling.

dean, that is hilarious.

I think that is main reason my wife won't shoot aluminum arrows. She is afraid that i will make a bunch.

Oh yes, to above alcohol tip. I used that 70% when I had feathers fall off as final wipe down, I remember that I was out of acetone and the pure alcohol, so I crabbed the stuff out of the bathroom.

Been using it for years with absolutely no problems. I scuff up with fine sandpaper and use acetone to degrease though. Have lost arrows for months in the grass and found them with feathers tight and intact. Don't know why yours failed.

For my Easton Legacy 1916's: Isopropyl 99% rub down prep, then NPV, and no problems. Feathers stay on for years and through a lot of use, but, admittedly, my arrows have not been subjected to super damp, extended soaking rain conditions.

WMM

Since going to the acetone rub down fletch tape and three spots of super glue, I have not had one feather come loose and it is faster than watching glue dry. I have been using jo- jans for years. I think with the tape, I may be better off with a Bitz.

I recently fletched a dz carbon shafts with NPV, I've had no issues with the feathers coming off.

I've also used it on aluminum as well with no issues.

I'll be going back to Fletch-Tite Platinum...it never let me down and did not on this trip...the arrows I had with me fletched with that product were fine.

And I just bought a new tube of NPV, dang it! Like Pdid, I believed the rave reviews on here.

Have had issues with Platinum on aluminum. Recently used some Martin's to fletch a few new Autumn Orange fmj's. No issues yet but haven't subjected them to the elements.

"And I just bought a new tube of NPV, dang it! Like Pdid, I believed the rave reviews on here...."

As well you should. You think we were lying to you or something?

I've had good luck with NPV on aluminums.

Lately I've been using wraps and crazy glue gel though.

Well, Jim...I'm usually a bit more cautious when I read stuff from Cuba!

I'm about to fletch up a dozen POCs that I finished by soaking in Danish oil (about a year or more ago). My glue is all old and I have to get some before starting. I've used Duco and Platinum as well as regular Fletchtite in the past. What's y'all's favorite on woods? (With feathers, not vanes, obviously).

NPV has been the best I have used on my carbons, but have not used it on aluminums yet. Interesting you had some feather loss problems.

Duco on wood for me (I dip in oil based poly)

Pretty crappy Backcountry! You could also use a spelling lesson. Hap

Ya--Jim is a good sport for putting up with the Cuba jokes. But at least he plays along.

My apologies if it's an on going ribbing-Hap

Why wouldn't MEK or lacquer thinner remove all oil or grease from a shaft? I could see where the Ajax is a mild abrasive and would scuff the shaft. I had the same experience with arrows lost for a a whole year. Rain, snow, freezing and thawing. The feathers still have to be scraped off to refletch. A note of caution: always use a clean rag or cloth to use a cleaner. My dad wiped my car one time right before we were going to spray paint it. You could sure tell the rag had some sort of oil on it. I don't quite know how to describe what happened but it had to wiped off and cleaned good ASAP.

Also never had a issue with NPV

M60gunner wrote:

"Your comment about the glue not flowing out tells me you got some bad stuff. As for the nozzle I don't see how you had an issue?"

To clarify, the glue flowed out readily...too readily.

I found that, unlike Fletch-Tite, it would not stop flowing after I applied it to a feather no matter what I did. I can usually gently squeeze the tube 90 degrees to where I had been squeezing it to apply the glue and it stops. I had to jam the cap back on the applicator tip before setting the feather in the jig.

As for the applicator, the Bohning applicator features a long slender tube that I found easier to use to apply the glue than the stubby one on the NPV.

Again, I don't doubt for a minute that people have enjoyed good results with NPV. The thrust of my post was to not try something new (like I did) before an important trip.

Try the product beforehand in the conditions you will encounter on the trip-wet weather, high heat etc- and see if it passes muster.

I purchased the glue through Amazon and I would expect it to be of good quality. It was not as the shafts that I prepped in an identical manner and used Fletch-Tite on were fine. (I fletched arrows with NPV and Platinum on the same night a week before the trip.)Only the NPV let go.

The first clue I had that something was amiss was the NPV turned from clear to cloudy at the base of the fletch. I then started looking at the feathers and saw they were lifting. Five mile hike back to the truck to get replacement shafts.

I've had epic fails as described here when using Fletch Tite Platinum. Went back to the local archery shop brought another tube. Same problems. According to the shop owner the whole case he bought had problems. Explaination he was given by a Fletch Tite rep was 'a bad batch'.

So we went to a new case and things worked, but I still felt the final bonds were weak when compared to using NPV on the same shafts with the same feathers and same preparation steps. As a result I changed to NPV.

I suspect the OP may have gotten into a bad batch, or perhaps one that 'aged' on the shelf, especially after opening. Key evidence is the 'flow' problem he noticed. If it was not crystal clear, or would not readily flow, something was wrong with that tube. Does not mean the whole product line is bad.

But all good folks have to vote with their feet (where they shop) and their pocket book (what they buy) and hopefully get products that meet their needs.

One guy vs dozens had a bad experience with NPV and some some of you guys are bailing already based on that. What does that tell you?

That there are a bunch of indoor target shooters who never go out in the rain?

Over the last decade or more, I have read about every kind of glue used for arrows on this forum, and there are many. Doesn't matter WHAT glue it is, you name it, someone will post with a first hand experience of why it is TOTAL CRAP and several will post in agreement, recommending completely different glues. Then another batch of guys will post touting the same glue as the BEST GLUE the world has known. Still more will post reiterating the TOTAL CRAP opinion and then more will post saying its the ONLY glue they have used for 40 years and NEVER had a problem, or "I only use XYZ glue" and on and on and on. The stuff was made for arrows right? If you had a problem, you either got a bad batch or your prep routine was flawed, or both. The moral here is not to use something you have no experience with in a time when you are going to depend on it the most and complain like Kim Kardashian when it all turns to crap! We all need to learn what materials are incompatible and make sure we are using the ones that are.

Yes, I believe you just got a bad batch of NPV. But my real comment is that just because isopropyl alcohol is 95% or 70% pure alcohol should not imply the rest of the bottle contains oils detrimental to adhesion. I am amazed how many years the fletching stays on my wooden and aluminum shafts that have splintered or been bent, and I have discarded them by jamming them into the side of the target or a nearby tree. Most were cleaned by wiping with alcohol or acetone.

Had feathers come off one of my carbon arrows recently. Had used the NPV. As a way of experimenting, I refletched with three plastic Fusion vanes as I shoot off an elevated rest and wanted to see how my arrows would perform. Used the NPV again and the vanes came right off. Perhaps it was a bad batch or old. Purchased a new tube of Fletch-Tite Platinum and this time they held. Don't know if this proves anything but it has been my experience. Personally, I think fletching glue degrades over time.

I had the same thing happen with the boning product . Switched to saunders and never had a problem again. I clean the shaft with acetone and thats it. Still shoot aluminums so Im sure that makes a difference.

MFG's arrows for 15 years & used nothing but fletch Tite, used between 25 to 40 gals./ yr. yes gallons! 1 year we had about 500 Dz. arrow have problems with vanes & feathers falling off, & contacted Bohning & Easton about it & they both admitted to having problems. Easto with some oil product the got into the wash after anodizing & Bohning some batches of bad glue & when you buy 20+ gals. at a time you assume it is good. Well from then on we always washed all the shafts in Laquer thinner & only received 5 gallons at 1 time. Bohning changed there fletch tite to platinum & it was a poor excuse for glue think flour & water would have been better. I used the platinum on 1 dz. arrows & a couple days latter went out & shot them & 1/2 the feathers fell off be fore they got to the target. Switched to Saunders & have never looked back. Yes I have been out in the rain & snow with them & have never lost any feathers or vanes since. May be3 platinum is OK now but I WOULD NEVER take a chance again.

I've used Saunders MPV since the early 80's when I was as making custom arrows, and never had any bad experiences with the glue. And yes sir, my arrows got soaked for seven days in Colorado Thalia year and I had no issues at all with the feathers coming off.

I use denatured alcohols to wipe shafts with, lately sand FMJ's and then wipe off with denatured alachol, no issues. And it sets up fast for me, within two minutes I'm changed feathers!! Seems you ever had old glue or at one time your glue froze. Sorry you had a bad experience with it. And when it pours out without stopping l, it's usually cause the tube has been squeezed...

Pdid, maybe consider fishing those discarded tubes outta the trash and returning to Saunders for analysis?

Not sure that'll help much at this point. But if Anthony says NPV works under similar conditions as you experienced, I'd be curious about what caused yours to fail.

A lot of contradictory comments here. Off topic, I would be interested in knowing how your elk hunt went. Sounds like the weather didn't cooperate but I hope you had some good experiences. Always wanted to see that country!

NPV is an excellent glue. What was described here is glue that is out of date and has deteriorated. Also, "denatured" alcohol is the only one that does not leave any residue.

Arcobsessed...here's a link to the thread of our hunt.

Came very close a few times...next year!

Beautiful country...

http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/lw/thread2.cfm? threadid=291620&category=88#4277459

I have never had an issue with NPV and went to it as an alternative to Fletch-Tite Platinum. The Fletch-Tite gets hard and the feathers all off over time. No such issue with NPV

I reviewed all of the posts and found people were very positional and defensive in terms of my post on experiencing a glue failure.

If you actually read my first post the gist of it was that I tried a glue that I had never used to prepare for a backcountry trip where the vehicle was a two and a half hour hike from the camp.

What I clearly said was "shame on me" for doing that when I should have used shafts that had been prepared with a trusted product and tested beforehand. I did have eight extra arrows fletched with platinum that saved the day.

My counsel was to advise other people not to make the same stupid error I made. I actually did not "...complain like Kim Kardashian..." except to express my rightful indignation at having to do the work again, and the waste of time and good fletching.

I also rightfully stated that I was not impressed with my negative experience with NPV and would never use it again, just the same as those who had negative experiences with Fletch- Tite and would never use it again. I don't blame you as it's your right based on a bad experience like mine.

In the same way I won't take any more chances with NPV as I have fletched dozens and dozens of arrows with Fletch-Tite with zero issues so will stick with a glue that I trust. I would not and did not tell anyone to use Fletch- Tite based on my experience as it's not my business what you use.

So, take this post in the spirit of why it was posted, which is why it's a good idea to read the entire thread before wading in.

Thanks Peter

Peter, to be honest, my post was not directed at you, specifically, but the many posts we see on here in the same regard. This glue is crap, no it's not, I only use this other one, oh I used xyz glue and all my feathers fell off during an elk hunt, blah blah blah. Do some homework guys and figure out what works BEFORE you need it most.

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