From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 27-Jun-17 |
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I was asked in private message how I felt about certain methods of concealment while hunting. More to the point, the question was more - how would I feel about myself for using them?
I might as well include baiting in this comment as well, so here goes.
Whether you think I am a hunter, or not is irrelevant to me. I know what I am capable of, and am pretty proud of my abilities in just about every arena of bowhunting there is in North America.
I'm certainly not the best, but I'll put my woodsmanship, bowhunting, and bow shooting skills up against anyone's without ever feeling inferior.
That said - I have ZERO reservation in using available methods of concealment if I think they work enough to warrant their use, and I have ZERO reservation in using attractants/bait where an area pretty much dictates them, and they are legal.
My whole thing about hunting anymore is seeing how close to the animal I can get. That does not mean I am going to kill every one I get close to. It's always a choice I make when the time comes, but I have let lots of animals walk, that I could have easily killed with a short spear.
If however I do decide to make the kill, I have ZERO reservations, nor do I feel any shame for doing so with any method I have chosen at the time.
Rick
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From: Sinner
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Date: 27-Jun-17 |
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It's obvious that there are many people who have different ideas of what is or isn't fair chase and what they feel comfortable with it shooting an animal. Many people use high fence areas, some use bait, some use stands or blinds, some only stalk.
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From: Newhunter
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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I don't care what others are doing and I don't need to ask forgiveness for the way I am hunting. We have to understand hunting are not a competition, it's all about opportunities, we are never on the same ground under same conditions. We tend to look for quantity in younger years and start looking for quality when all are done over and over again.
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From: Nalajr
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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There are certain things that I don't like and would not do that are legal. I have no problem with others doing them though.
Everyone's definition of "fair chase" and hunting is a bit different from the next guy or gal.
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From: larryhatfield
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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The only place that matters to anybody is on public media. It's nobody's business how I hunt, what I wear, or anything else I do while hunting or just living my life, as long as I am not in violation of any law. Fully agree with Rick's sentiments! On line people do NOT have the right to "know".
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From: Jeff Durnell
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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I too like to get close, super close, without bait or the aids of the hunting industry. Slightly different values, that's all. Do what you do. No need to justify to anyone or expect anyone to give a dang for more than casual conversation.
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From: TrapperKayak
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Really??? Is this a monthly requirement to discuss? De'ja vu (all over again) :)
OK - My method is to stand clear out in the middle of an open field with a fog horn and a set of Christmas lights strung on me and launch arrows at the edge of the field where the laughing animals are peering out at me.
Of course I conceal myself. With everything except store-bought items (at least none that I bought). Who wouldn't?
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From: TrapperKayak
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Please let me clarify. I bought my camo clothing. I make 'blinds' from material on-site, or use what is already 'made'. I can't believe there is another thread on 'our conscience', and 'fair chase', that will probably morph into 'ethics'. sheeesssshhhh. :)
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From: Pappy
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Well said Rick. The what others think is irrelevant to me is the part I really like. I do my thing you do yours, I don't tell you your wrong and please don't tell me I am. Pappy
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From: Dry Bones
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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I'm with you Rick. However I choose to go about my business is of my own decision. As long as it's legal and no one is in danger. I will even go as far to say that if/when I go to High Fence locations those animals still taste just as good, or in some cases BETTER given the food sources available. Enjoy the woods, carry a bow, forget the rest.
-Bones
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From: T4HALO
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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After being a memeber of the the wall for a short period of time, it's obvious that every week someone will compare classic bows to customs, and someone will start a baiting thread. I've hunted with a recurve for 38 years. I could care less if someone baits or hunts behind a fence. I do my own thing.
T4
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From: Woods Walker
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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"I'm with you, I don't care how it gets done, so long as it's legal."
X-2
I would only add....And it doesn't impact ME!
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From: LostHawg
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Well, legal isn't my end authority. I agree with Rick that it's irrelevant what you think of me as a hunter.
I will abide by the laws, but I will also abide by MY limitations. I'm not going to use a crossbow or compound, for instance. They suck. They work for some, just not for me.
There's no such thing as "fair" chase when it comes to hunting. That's a politically correct term devised to ease the minds of snowflakes who get their panties in a bunch over us killing animals in an uncontrolled environment.
Since the eviction from the garden of Eden man has been taking every advantage in collecting meat. Whether it's working the wind, or a scent blocking, brushed in camo blind, we've used what we deem necessary to put the animals we pursue at a disadvantage.
Fair chase? Naw... We're out to kill them, and they're trying to stay alive. Nothing fair or sporting about that. It just is what it is.
But, like Rick, I have no reservations, using whatever means is legal, within my own desires.
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From: Joey Ward
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Get plenty of fiber in your diet and you won't have to worry about being impacted.
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From: The Whittler
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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I think sometimes people forget we are hunting the animals in their back yard, they have all the advantages. The advantage is in their favor IF we see them and certainly in their favor IF we get one.
If it's Legal then by all means.
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From: J. h2os
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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If a person didn't feel right or comfortable useing a method while doing something they LOVED, Why would they?? jeff
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From: JusPassin
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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I'm just overwhelmed that we have so many "Law" abiding hunters on here.
"If it's Legal" seems to be the accepted catch phrase.
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From: 4nolz@work
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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I've said it here before:all hunting, like all politics is local.
what is acceptable out West may not translate to Maine or Texas etc.applying one's personal ethics to someone 1000 miles away just doesnt apply all the time(except for local laws).Ex. shooting neighborhood turkeys walking from yard to yard is far from climbing into the dark timber for elk. etc etc
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From: Orion
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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A lot of things that are legal aren't ethical, and a lot of things that are ethical aren't legal.
We all have to come up with our own definitions of what's ethical and fair chase, I suppose, but it's shared, agreed upon values that make up a culture. I'm over 70 years old and have been at this a long time. To me, it seems we're losing our commonality or shared values in hunting as is most other things.
There seems to be a growing disconnect between what we profess and what we actually do. On the one hand, most who take up or stayed with traditional bows say they have done so because they limit the take and present a more level playing field (and more of a challenge) between the hunter and hunted. On the the hand, many in this fraternity adopt many of the new technologies that give the hunter greater advantage and increasingly stack the odds in his favor.
We maybe can't come to full agreement as to what's ethical and what's not, what should and shouldn't be legal, etc., but I would hope we can each do some individual self- analysis in deciding how to balance the scales. Right now, I don't think a lot of us are doing that.
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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I think that's 'compacted' Joey, but I know what you mean. I like Raisin Bran.
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From: bigdog21
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Come on dad take the shoot its cold out here.
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From: Big Dog
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Rick, My conscience is clear about your conscience. :o) Regards
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From: 4nolz@work
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Rick Barbee has gone as far as tearing Wallace stickers off the bumpers of cars and I heard he voted for George McGovern for President!
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From: George D. Stout
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Better go to L.A. via Omaha next time.
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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LOL, my entire point was:
(1) If I decide to do it a certain way, I'm not going to have any problem with myself about it.
(2) I don't care how "YOU" feel about it.
8^)
Rick
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From: Sinner
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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You must care Rick. You posted it on here...
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From: 4nolz@work
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Group hug! Don't let it get to you Rick. :)
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From: TrapperKayak
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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When are we gonna find something NEW to talk about? Huhuhuhuh?
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Jeffery, I only care so far as to make sure you know I don't care. 8^)
Rick
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From: Bob Rowlands
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Desperate men, desperate measures.
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From: LostHawg
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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And, just because it's not legal, doesn't mean it's unethical.
I follow the law, but apply MY choices from that law. If you have a problem with what's legal or not, take steps to change it.
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From: Longcruise
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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"As long as it's legal". I don't even care about that!
When and where I grew up there were plenty of people living a marginal existence for whom killing deer made a big difference in their the lives of themselves and their children. For them, the "season" opened around July 1st. There were no limits and no licences.
Just because it was a time long ago doesn't mean there are not people still living in those circumstances. IMO, they are hunters just as much so as a guy like Rick who often only counts coup.
So, I could care less about methods of take. I'll leave my own practices to your imagination. LOL
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From: LostHawg
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Mine was one of those families.
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From: Jim
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Rick, I agree 100% with you.
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From: Witherstick
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Gentlemen,
While I do agree that we should never base our thoughts of right and wrong on entirely upon what others think, No one is an island. Others' opinions can and often do result in laws. We should never act in total disregard of others. the truth is that what is legal or accaptable is fluid. We are all in a constant struggle to limit others' involvement in our lives. hiding behind trite phrases will not help. Alas, we must know that becaause if we truly didn't care what others thought about us we would not have to claim such to the world.
But, I do agree with your general yearning for a place where others do not feel that they are the judges for all the rest.
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From: Babbling Bob
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Wasn't going to reply since I don't give a hoot what a fellow uses to fill is freezer. But what Bigdog replied with his photo made me laugh 'cause it reminded me of a fall we spent at the Hills of Lakeway, a little ways outside of Austin, Texas. Could have shot a bunch every evening in almost every neighborhood.
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From: bigdog21
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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I really do not care how he hunts but the pic,? I couldn't resist. sorry Rick :)
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From: Longcruise
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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"Ethics and morels are what you do when no one is watching"
I could care less who watches me while doing some morels. ;-)
And, you are so right about what people do and say while being watched and what they do when alone. It's true all across society and applicable to every kind of behavior.
Seems like hunters overly obsess over ethics. Especially other people's. LOL
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From: 4nolz@work
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Now KPC that's two harsh too respond that way to.
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From: lawdy
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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True fair chase is running an animal down while naked and choking it to death. No shoes either. That's cheating.
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From: Clinton Gowin
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Rick. I agree with your approach as well. I hunt A LOT here in Texas as well as Oklahoma. There are years I don't get a single shot at an animal I WANT to harvest. Some years are better, thank goodness. During those years I feel like Ole Fred himself....that usually does not last long, unfortunately. I always follow the rules/laws in my respective hunting area. If it is legal to bait, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I don't slaughter everything that walks in...it just gives me a chance to see more game and therefore pass on more game, in hopes that I will actually get a chance at that once in a lifetime buck. I am not the best shot either, nor am I the worst. I wish I were better, but well....I am only as good as I am, no better, no worse.
I have personally seen Rick shoot MANY times. We were members of the same archery club in Abilene (Buffalo Gap), back in the early 90's (during my AD military days). My buddy and I were shooting compounds instinctively and EVERY TIME we walked 3D courses with Rick he flat smoked our butts. He shot a warfed Martin bow, with custom recurve limbs and I have never seen anyone shoot like that in real world field conditions. True 3D courses, at unknown distances. I cannot see how anyone would question his ability to hunt/shoot. Just my 2 cents...
Besides, we all do this for the fun and challenge of it. What is fun, challenging and fulfilling for one is not necessarily the same for all. With terrorists and anti-hunters in our midst (every day) we really cannot afford to attach each other. I hunt differently than Rick and probably most of you guys/gals. I certainly cannot shoot like Rick, probably never will either. The beauty of it all is that.....I dont have to. I just have to shoot as well as I can, the way I choose to (legally) and ENJOY it. Lifes too short! I am new here and do hope I do not offend ANYONE....not my objective at all. Take care and God bless all!
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From: Scooby-doo
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Wise guys, spell check must of got me and only on this site!! It is true what I speak though. Peoples behavior changes when someone is watching their every move. When I was kid, I pulled into a favorite hunting spot(that I still hunt by the way)and there stood a small doe. I rolled the window down stuck the muzzle loader out the window and shot her. I went back to the house got my Dad and we went and got her. We got out of the truck and I said ya know I shot her out the window of the car. He lit into me right away. I never had to tell him what I had done, but it just did not feel right. That is what I am talking about! Shawn
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From: Jeff Durnell
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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I ONLY partake of my morels when nobody is watching. It took me many years to find them.
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From: Woods Walker
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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If you poach because you're needy, then it would make a lot more sense to poach a trophy sized animal so you can sell it on the black market to someone with a severe case of antler-itis. This way, instead of just feeding your family for a month or less you can feed it (and buy clothing shoes, etc) for maybe a year or more. It's more efficient and the negative impact on the deer herd is a LOT less and less harmful to the resource. I mean, yo're already breaking the law so you may as well get the most bang for your buck, right?
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From: woodsman
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Date: 28-Jun-17 |
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Everyone set's their own rules and ethics for their hunting.... and that's the way it is, the way it should be.
That being said.. Is it really true that a person doesn't care's what others think? Because in the community you live your behavior is known... There's always the unfounded rumor's.. but your true nature can't be hidden forever..
I'm sure most of you can tell rather quickly if someone is the type of person you would share a campfire with.. Even if you don't know immediately, it will show up in time..
So... does it really not matter? Guess it really is up to you..
chris
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From: mangonboat
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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Rick may not care what my opinion is, but in my book it is simply wrong to use attractants and a gillnet to collect morels when nobody is looking. Gotta give 'em a sportin' chance.
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From: TrapperKayak
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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I spotlight deer. Is that moral?
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From: nomo
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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If a person can sleep with it, it must be OK for them. Me, I don't count in their decisions. I sleep well with my set of ethics.
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From: N. Y. Yankee
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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I don't give a damn what anybody does if it's legal. They just better not judge me by my methods, as long as I'm legal too.
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From: Orion
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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I'm inquisitive. For those who march according to their own drummer, have their own/individual set of ethics so to speak, etc., how did you arrive at them?
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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[[[ Orion asked: "For those who march according to their own drummer, have their own/individual set of ethics so to speak, etc., how did you arrive at them?" ]]]
For me, it is purely situational. I use the best tactics for whatever environment, and situation I happen to be hunting in at the time.
This leads to me hunting with a lot of different tactics.
Rick
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From: GLF
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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People tend to make up their additions to the rules of fair chase as they go. The old rules as Fred Bear n others went by were pretty simple. You won't kill an animal that's helpless or trapped. All the rest you hear is something someone made up to fit their agenda. The rules have nothing to do with baiting or how you hide and hunt. You shouldn't take unfair advantage in ways like shooting an animal behind a high fence where he couldn't get away if he wanted to, or stuck up to his belly in mud, or take a boat out and kill one swimming in the middle of a deep lake... They're just guidelines to keep bowhunting fair to you and the animal. Not laws or even rules, just guidelines. So baiting, using dogs ,or what ways you decide to camo or hide yourself have nothing to do with fair chase. Those are just personal preferences.
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From: Longcruise
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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"Rick may not care what my opinion is, but in my book.."
Dang, I had no idea you had written a book. :^)
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From: kenwilliams
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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LOL. Lord willing, come October I plan on sitting in my ladder stand hunting with my Bear Kodiak with a single sight pin installed and wooden arrows in my homemade quiver, wearing Realtree camo and a face mask and toting.a Smith.and Wesson M&P on my side.....Traditional, probably not.
But it is all legal and it is what and how I like it.
Ken
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From: RymanCat
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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Ugh the Drama LOL
When a man has to justify himself to others what he does is he his own man? Really? LOL
The good, the bad and the ugly either way it comes out we will have to live with it in all things.
What the Devil means for evil then God means for good.
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From: Bowlim
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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The biggest question, and this is one that a person can decide for themselves, is whether you deserve a dunce cap for laying out coin in the belief that some new camo system is going to bring home the bacon. I have seen real predators in the field and they can be immobile and in plain view with massive contrast to their surroundings and the prey does not see them, and they can walk right up to the animal and nab it. Cats mostly.
I'm not sure fair chase explicitly addresses camo, and one possible reason why is that you can be unseen by an animal and have done nothing (blocked by tree say), or you can use every piece of hunter bait in the Bass Pro catalog and been seen. Modifying the environment is not really fair, but not being able to do it at all reduces hunting because there are so many clever things a hunter can do, if we shut them all down, I think it diminishes hunting.
The exception to me is dangerous game. It isn't wrong, or even not fair chase, to conceal oneself from dangerous game. But the recent story about a guy who realized a life long goal by shooting a Cape Buff from a tree stand left me gasping a little. Nothing wrong with that, but I was surprised that he had a life long inspiration to hunt dangerous game from the equivalent of a tank. Assuming reasonable tree diameter. :)
By the way when discussing morals, and some maters of ethics, prefacing one's remarks with "as a hunter/pastor/democrat, ..."just shows you haven't read the manual. Consider: Is it moral to eat children for the lean meat? Prefacing that with "as a hunter/pastor/democrat, ..." doesn't add anything. In hunting there can be a difference between food gathering and sport hunting, but then you really need to nail that difference down.
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From: Dkincaid
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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thousands upon thousands of deer are shot at distances over 100 yards if that's fair chase anything I shoot with an arrow is as well. I have never asked a person how they hunt and had never been asked until I discovered the internet. Perhaps the internet made everyone grow high and mighty casting thunder at those who do it differently. Folks who don't live in or have never lived in an area have no business casting judgments on the folks that live there and make the rules. The internet has made the hunting world a mirror of the federal government where people a thousand miles away seem to know what's best for your and yours.
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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[[[ RymanCat said: "When a man has to justify himself to others what he does is he his own man?" ]]]
Looks like we are in agreement on this one. 8^)
Rick
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From: RymanCat
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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Wha, wha, wha. Send Rick a brew he comprehended. LOL
What does 8^) mean some secret society? Edgemecat me.LOL
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From: nomo
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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I arrived at my set of ethics from observation of things I agree with and things I don't and personal belief. Not everyone would agree with me on my thoughts, but that's what freedom is all about. God gave us all the freedom to choose to do good or bad.
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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Mike, you darn good & well it's a secret handshake. 8^)
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From: dean
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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In Iowa it is legal to get a chiropractor to sign the slip that says you have an ouchy shoulder and then one can hunt with a crossbow, it legal to take 150 yard shots at running deer with same crossbow, it is legal to go take a look and decide that you will never find that deer if you hit it, as long as you took a look first. It is legal to fly a drone over an area to look for deer before leaving the car. It is legal in some states to manipulate the area and create artificial funnels. It is legal to get stoned out of your mind on brownies in Colorado. It legal to buy a prostitute in Nevada. Do what ever as long as it is legal. However like always, if I find someone baiting in Iowa, I will call the game warden and I will make sure he does his job and writes a ticket. These threads are always started by baiters attempting to defend their positions. Why even bring it up? i also notice that some on forums sign with their list of favorite bows. You don't see folks signing with their favorite primary tool for getting deer, the automated feeder.
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From: Brad Lehmann
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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I am sitting here pondering just what I could possibly do while hunting with a bow and arrow that would be immoral or bother my conscience. I'm reading lots of platitudes here but not seeing any examples other than baiting. Was I asleep on the day that bowhunters were taught to cheat? You fellows with the high standards best give some examples of just what can be done in the field that is immoral or what would bother you. There is a lot of talking in circles with nothing really being said in this thread.
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From: RymanCat
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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Hey I done some things that I don't agree with myself but done them. Before I'd tell anyone I'd jump off a cliff in a stone quarry that way can stone myself and not involve anyone else but let me get a Hecs suit first and wear that so if any animals come buy close if I didn't die right away and they might want to eat me they won't know I'm there till I get a chance to expire. LOL
Secrets ah LOL
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From: TrapperKayak
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Date: 29-Jun-17 |
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Brad, true, and well stated.
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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Glenn, the HECS suit comes with an instruction booklet, but it has no pictures. You would be S#@T out of luck on how to use it.
8^) <--- secret handshake
Rick
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From: shade mt
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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I think we get a little to caught up in this ethics and morals stuff. And use the terms FAR to loosely.
But i'll put it in proper perspective.
As far as using the Law to judge whether its morally right or ethical.....I'd be careful of that. Folks are lawfully allowed to do things now that were thought of as taboo, 50 yrs ago and I'm not just talking hunting. You get enough unethical and immoral people passing laws and were will that end? Probably just keep getting worse.
As far as baiting...ect....ect I suppose man has devised a means of killing game as efficiently as possible as long as man has existed. But suddenly now that we can buy Angus beef at the grocery store, we have evolved into a bunch of purist tweeds.
I have a good friend that leases ground in Ohio they bait, spend a lot of money doing it, put out trail cams ect..ect They have some very nice buck and are managing their ground. They REALLY! enjoy the whole process. And I say good for them, Glad they enjoy it. I have been invited out numerous times. Will I ever go? Mabye, but if I do i'll probably hunt nearby on the Wayne national forest, because that's what I enjoy.
But....common sense will tell you that killing pope and young buck that you have scouted and patterned on the vast Sproul state forest here in PA or the Adirondacks in NY or over a scrape in a Midwest woodlot, IS NOT THE SAME AS KILLING A POPE AND YOUNG BUCK OVER A MAINTAINED CORNPILE IN OHIO!
But it is not a ethics or morals issue, just a different way of hunting. Easier yes, but not a "moral" issue
Morals and ethics pertain to life in general, not just hunting. It would be interesting to see how many that preach hunting ethics and morals apply that to all areas of life?
The world is full of liars, cheats, whoremongers, adulturers, drug addicts, drunks, lazy slothful, murderous people.
Truthfully a man that conducts himself morally and ethically in all aspects of life, will often do the same in the woods.
You don't live like a scumbag on the street and then turn into an angel in the woods....don't work that way.
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From: stykman
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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I see you have recovered very well from your latest malady, Glenn. Haven't missed a beat. 8^)
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From: buster v davenport
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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Now that I can buy Angus beef in the grocery store, I don't have to slow elk 'em anymore. bvd
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From: bigdog21
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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KC LMAO :)
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From: RymanCat
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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The drama
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From: JusPassin
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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Shade, good comments, but not entirely accurate. As a retired Police Chief and prison administrator I have seen a few less than moral behaviors. However there are a significant number of folks who act moral in public just for appearances sake who behave totally opposite in private.
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From: Woods Walker
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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"However there are a significant number of folks who act moral in public just for appearances sake who behave totally opposite in private."
Like politicians? TV personalities? Entertainers? Or to sum it up....CARNYS.
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From: kenwilliams
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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I think people are always going to justify their own ideas, actions and beliefs.
For example, I am fortunate enough to have hunting access to a local dairy farm where corn, rye grass, wheat and soybeans are planted for silage/feed. On this farm there is a particular 8 acre field that is bordered on three sides by dense hedge and on the fourth side by planted pines. The deer always enter this field the same way for the 25 years I have hunted it. How is my setting up on a buck in the edges of this field ethically and morally better than a guy who doesn't have access to a dairy farm that instead sets up up close to a Moultrie feeder(where legal)? What about a guy who finds a 3 acre patch of white oaks loaded with acorns in a National Forest and uses that to his advantage to take a nice buck?
I agree with Shade Mt. It is just different methods of hunting, not a question of morality versus immorality. Ethical people will act according to their ethics. Unwthical people, well, you get the idea.
Ken
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From: badgerman
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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Hunting over bait does affect other hunters who choose not to use this methods. Deer no longer free range and look for brouse, but sleep during the day and eat on the bait pile at nite, after they gain insight to the set-up. In some states it may be necessary to attract deer via bait if other methods are not workable, but in Wisconsin deer can be hunted successfully using your hunting and woodsmanship skills without using bait. Joel
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From: 4nolz@work
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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do you guys really think the deer eat nothing but bait? Do your birds only eat from your bird feeder?
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From: JusPassin
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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I can't say for sure on deer, but birds, yes, they will sit and eat and watch and eat some more. As long as they have a reliable food source, they will look no further.
The perfect example of that is humming birds, they just sit there and guard the feeder all day when their not eating.
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From: 4nolz@work
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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Sounds like genXers :)
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From: limbwalker
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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Well said Rick. Probably why you and I get along. LOL
There was a time when I cared what others thought and also cared a lot myself, about how I hunted. What equipment, what conditions, etc.
These days, I could give two sheets how anyone else hunts, or even how I do, so long as it's legal.
Life is too damn short to worry about such tiny trivial things. Do what makes you happy and let others do the same. If you can't do that, then the problem isn't them. It's you.
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From: KenWood
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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In central Texas if you ain't feeding corn your not gonna see much action. Everybody else is baiting. I can see both sides of it. I really enjoy going to states that don't allow baiting because it's different. For all who see it as an unfair advantage, try a shot at mature Texas whitetail at a feeder. I have spots on natural funnels that I hide in without bait just to get mature deer. They don't come to my feeders. If they do they are wound tighter than an eight day clock. Gettin a shot ain't easy.
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From: Jeff Durnell
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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So folks use bait because it's more challenging... got it.
C'mon... someone tell us that it's more ethical too. You know you wanna ;^)
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From: dean
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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If one baits, is it still called hunting? Like a local cop/hunter said, "If it was easy you wouldn't be doing it." Adventure and challenge, should never be easy. I have lost count of how many people have asked when we are coming back from hunting, "did you catch any?" Perhaps baiting for deer should be called bait fishing for deer, minus the catch and release part. Of course, that is not fair to the bait fisherman, because they only have their line in the water for a limited amount of time. That is why trot lines and jug fishing is frowned upon, the bait is in the water even when the fisherman is absent.
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From: Sinner
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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People bait because they are more interested in killing than in hunting. You know you care that some people think less of you for doing so, otherwise there wouldn't be such a long discussion about it. You want to try to justify your choice.
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From: bigdog21
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Date: 30-Jun-17 |
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I would like someone preferably one who hunts this way to tell me. why do you hunting over feeders (beside we can) make me and others understand it it is not legal where i hunt. has the hunting been ruined so much it the only way or no real deer population, ???
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From: Will tell
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Date: 01-Jul-17 |
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You buy property and clear land to grow food plots to attract deer. When the deer come for their free dinner you shoot them. I don't see much difference between a food plot and a feeding station. Shoot them anyway you like, it's okay with me.
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From: Too Many Bows Bob
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Date: 01-Jul-17 |
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I always get cranked at people who will put down "baiting" while they hunt over food plots or water tanks out west. Or say it's OK in Africa to hunt behind a high fence but not in Texas
I hunt in NJ a lot and if you don't bait, your neighbors are and guess where the deer will go?
Different places have different ways. You can spot and stalk black bears in Montana, but just try it in Maine.
TMBB
tmbb
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From: N. Y. Yankee
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Date: 01-Jul-17 |
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I have my own ethics and morals. I can try to impart them on someone if they are open to it but I cant change 99.9999999 percent of anyone else's. So I don't even try. I dont have the ambition.
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From: George Tsoukalas
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Date: 01-Jul-17 |
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Ethics and morality...we've had these discussion on here in the past.
I've pretty much always felt that if it is legal it is ethical but...
So what I am getting out of 100+ threads is that it is ok to conceal myself while hunting, and to wear camo.
Using bait is not so clearly accepted in NH. Check the regs.
I basically agree that whether or not an activity is legal is the key but...
But...I am starting to wonder about that.
Years ago I was all set to spend a relaxing afternoon in my ladder stand only to find another hunter in there.
It is legal sure but certainly not ethical. He was veteran, as am I, so I kept the confrontation to a minimum. Besides, I make it a point to minimize arguments is someone is holding a weapon. Anyway, he was apologetic.
So the line between ethics and legality is not always clearly defined.
Rick, I'm not sure about the "it' s nobody's business but my own attitude". I wonder what I would have done if he told me that.
Jawge
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From: Bob Rowlands
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Date: 01-Jul-17 |
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Kill chute vs bait. That's a tough one. hmmmm...... lol
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From: Jeff Durnell
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Date: 01-Jul-17 |
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Yep Kevin, it could. An equally good case could be made against it as well.
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From: Brad Lehmann
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Date: 01-Jul-17 |
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I get the idea that some of you folks think that the deer can come into the feeder and eat whenever they want. Some people feed like that; the rich people anyway. I set my feeders to go off at one time in the morning and one time in the afternoon. That gets pretty expensive even at the lower feed prices. I typically set the timer for about a seven second spin. The deer that want to eat have to show up or the coons, turkey, quail, and dove will clean it up. That is about a thirty minute window after the feeder spins. I don't hunt the feeders but I do have a camera set up at most of them so I can see what is on the place. The mature bucks don't normally come to a feeder to eat. They may come by during the rut to check out the girls but usually they are not there very long. During the drought the deer were getting so poor that I started feeding protein year round and the wife was throwing hen scratch in the backyard to help the quail get by. We also did not hunt for a couple of seasons during the drought as we felt that the wildlife was under extreme stress just trying to survive. It seems to have worked because when it finally did rain again we had some of the fattest and healthy looking deer that I have seen on the place. I think that we took four deer that year.
So, for you guys that live where using a feeder is illegal. What can you do to help the wildlife in a stressful year? Do you break the law and hand feed or just watch the wildlife die?
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 01-Jul-17 |
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Seven second spin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dear God Man !!!!!!!!!!!
8^)
I'm a poorboy tight wad. I set my timers for no more than a 5 second spin (usually 3), and motor speed set to low.
If the animals were depending on me for sustenance, they would starve in short order. LOL
Rick
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From: kenwilliams
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Date: 01-Jul-17 |
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Brad,
In Virginia, we are allowed to feed the deer from 2nd week in January through the 1st week in September with the exception of a few far northwestern counties that have CWD and of course, they cannot be hunted over during our doe only, urban archery season which runs from January through September.
I personally do not feed the wildlife with a feeder because I plant enough garden and share with the wildlife to a point.(Electric fence around where I don't want them) However, I do put out mineral blocks because it seems to help with.antler development and probably the deer health in general.
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From: dean
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Date: 01-Jul-17 |
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A friend of mine goes to Texas to shoot funny looking deer. They have chutes leading to the feeders. He won't hunt by the feeder and sit in the blind, so he sits at the wide end of the chute. He said when it is getting close to feeding time they start gathering, then when he hears the feeder take off, they coming running in. Last year he wanted to shoot a hog that was in the mix and it got right past him, because those funny looking deer were blocking his shot. Two days later he got a hog while just strolling around on someone's free range land. The next day he shot one of those funny looking deer that escaped from one of the nearby 'hunting' preserves. I know guys that have lots of extra money that buy their own land here and set it up with small food plots, elevated blinds and have the food plots corralled with chutes and then try to tell everyone what great hunters they are, as far as I can tell that is no different than the pay to kill operations that they have in Texas. Not much of an adventure either way.
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From: GLF
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Date: 01-Jul-17 |
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Brad we can feed, just not during hunting season.
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From: GLF
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Date: 01-Jul-17 |
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Lemme refraze that, baitings legal now on private property, so you can feed but not on pubic lands during hunting season.
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 01-Jul-17 |
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Gary, I'm not positive, but pretty sure it's the same way here in Texas. Feeders and/or feeding is only allowed on private property.
Rick
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From: Babysaph
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Date: 01-Jul-17 |
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I hunt the way I want. I get tired of the if it's legall statement too.,too politically correct for me. I'm not letting some politician that doesn't hunt tell me what to do
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From: moleman 1
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Date: 01-Jul-17 |
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The "if its legal "statement is tiresome indeed. The ethics that one developes should be based on ones respect for everything that hunting is all about and not what is dictated by buraucrats. To me someone who follows this form of thinking hasnt yet developed thier own set or scence of ethics but simply rely upon someone else to determine thier ethics for them. I agree with Rick, hunting is indeed different in different geographic areas.....no one place is the same. Here in my area, 50 yard shots are uncommon and generally unthinkable for a traditional hunter, but go out west and you best have youre game on for those 30 to 50 yard shots if you plan on being successful...different terain...different tactics. Different ethics for different folks....but dont let legalism dictate what yours should be.....determine that for yourself.
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From: Brad Lehmann
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Date: 01-Jul-17 |
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That seven second spin can put out a lot or not much. It depends on the gap between the spinner plate and the funnel mouth. I keep it pretty tight because a couple of windy days can empty a feeder if the gap is too wide. I ran three feeders from September 1 to the middle of January and used about 1200 pounds of corn last season. I bought most of the corn bulk at $6.00 a cwt so I am a tightwad too.
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From: Jim Casto Jr
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Date: 02-Jul-17 |
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"...but dont let legalism dictate what yours should be.....determine that for yourself."
I don't think anyone indicated they did that--did they? I figure most of us only the "what's legal" in your area when we make judgement's about others.
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From: JusPassin
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Date: 02-Jul-17 |
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When I hear the "if it's legal" phrase my mind instantly thinks of the same guys who espouse the "if it's brown it's down" mindset.
I'm sure it is not always so but that is what I think of.
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From: Caughtandhobble
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Date: 02-Jul-17 |
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Rick defiantly believes in BAITING... He got a lot of bites on the same old thread with a fancy title, lol.
Guys and gals, just hunt the way you want to!!!
Try not to judge others, especially when we don't know the circumstances to why they hunt the way that they do.
Personally, I don't hunt feeders with the exception of one ranch I hunt. Feeders are actually fun to see a bunch of different game.
Hunting mature deer, I prefer a pinch point or a funnel. I have been lucky to take several nice bucks with a bow, I have never killed a mature buck at a feeder. Personally, I don't shoot baby bucks but I don't care if you do.
Have fun, stay safe and God Bless you all :)
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From: Rick Barbee
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Date: 02-Jul-17 |
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I'm building another new feeder as this topic continues.
This feeder will be a 30 gallon hanging feeder for close to (within sight of) the house.
You know. For those lazy days when you don't feel like putting a lot of effort into it.
Not sure what stand/blind to use. I may just put my ladder stand in the same tree I hang the feeder in.
8^)
Rick
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From: kenwilliams
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Date: 02-Jul-17 |
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LOL,LOL, Then you could just jump out of the stand onto their back and slit their throat with a knife.
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From: kenwilliams
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Date: 02-Jul-17 |
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Figured I should mention I was just kidding by the way in my last post lest someones undergarments get in a wad. LOL
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