After a really long lay off I bought a Ben Pearson Collegian from the 60's?. Got that dialed in and then purchased another 7 bows over the past year. 3 bear recurves, 3 Bodnik bows. I shoot every day and take at least two bows to compare. My Pearson shoots as well as any new bow? Granted my Bears all date to the 70's but the Bodnik's are all new. Anybody want to comment on my observation. Granted I did not use a chrono, but is that really important? I don't perceive much difference in speed, although the Bear Kodiak Magnum does feel the fastest, but not enough to make it stand out. I expected new bows to really stand out?

Bodnik are not the fastest new bows and it's limited what one can get out of a bow. Bragging commercials will boost the turnover for a limited time. Some of the new "super bow" made from new fancy material are fragile, to fragile for hunting. The use of more fancy exotic veneers and horn on custom bows are better today. Lock socket TD systems are better. More artistic bow design. CNC machines make the job more accurate and faster. better glue and more

When comparing like designs you won't find much difference between a 1960 bow and a 2017 bow if you are using the same string material. Some today may use different tapers that allow for more performance but all in all, the differences will be negligible for the most part. There are always exceptions of course. Again, you must compare like-designs so it's a fair comparison. I love my old bows, but then I grew up with them.

Until someone develops a new limb material that has dramatically more "snap" traditional bows will gain little in performance. JMO

I'm not really sure what criteria you are using to determine stand out? If speed is absolutely no concern to you what do use to make your judgment. Perceived feel is not reall a quantative measure. Like George said similar designs shoot similar. That being said the new designs and materials that folks like border archery are using are offering a substantial increase in measurable performance. Measureable as in speed, smooth force draw curves and cast etc. I prefer longbows and can tell you that what folks are calling longbows today are not the same as what my fathers generation called longbows so some could argue they have improved depends on how you look at it. As with any form of archery gains to performance are measure in inches not miles when changing equipment

Maybe it is the strings we have now? All I know is my Bear SK from 2003 out shoots my 72 Bear SK. Same forms! Better materials

A lot of the bows today have the same materials in therm as bows from the past. Bamboo or maple for instance. Unless the new bow has something different in the lam tapers or limb profile, there shouldn't be much difference in performance. I look at a lot of bows and the percentage of new bows with truly state of the art lam material is not a big percentage of the total.

I've come a long ways in the last 40 years but it's all been downhill.

That wasn't very long ago, and what I shoot is a whole lot older. Don't know about the new bows much but their sure purdy and some don't make as much noise now, which didn't bother me anyway. Some of the new ILF bows with carbon foam limbs are statistically faster but many of the customs are not, so not sure if I would gain anything except empty pockets if I bought a new one. Like what I shot 55 years ago and I like my 55 year old bows now too.

I disagree with most of the previous posts. I started shooting bows in the late 1960's and have shot quite a few. The bows that I shoot today feel better in my hand, have less hand shock, are smoother drawing, and are faster than bows that I shot prior to the 1990's. The improvements have been modest but I can sure tell the difference.

Ollie makes a good point. I certainly own some forty year old bows that don't feel good and have some hand shock. Had I been shooting back then they may have been all that I could afford. Forty years later I can afford to buy higher tier bows. So in order to answer the original question properly one would have to compare like models from the same manufacturer. It would be rather hard to compare very many of the customs. I don't have many that fit that criteria except maybe a 59 Kokiak and a remake from 2013. Since I have yet to string up the new one, I can't answer the question.

Bows of a particular side view and front view profile can only shoot so fast, and perform so well. It makes do difference when they were made. 40 years ago, or today. Like designs shoot at like speeds and perform at similar levels.

Materials actually play a MUCH smaller part of performance then most folks think. Changing the placement of limb mass, changing the amount of string that touches the limb of a braced recurve, those are the things that change performance. Not much of anything else.

There haven't been very many revelations in bow design for a lot longer than 40 years.

scores would be higher and fps would be faster, you may have a bow that "feels" better, that does not mean it is better,, could be better than a bow you had before, but overall, the improvements have been smallish,, guys making wood bows have made improvements in performance as ancient techniques have been re discovered,, fps can be faster,, I doubt scores are better than the guys from the past that shot so great with wood bows,, and that shows you that fps does not always equate to consistant accuracy,, I am sure there are some bows from the past that will shoot with anything new today,,

The whole point of something being a true tradition of sport is that somewhere the challenge must remain or it is not a sport or a tradition.

I started designing bows for Howatt in 1960. I think the only real advancement in bow performance comes from the new balanced wovens that let things like super recurves etc, happen. Linear carbon gave a boost to r/d longbows when it was applied to the outside on the back of the bow, but use on the belly was not possible, because linear carbon does not compress without failure. The first generation of carbon wovens for archery failed because of poor wet out, but new methods and material layups have solved that problem.Can't really think of anything else that is new. Every design made today has been made before. Some are just enhanced now by the proper use of a limited supply of new material available to archery manufacturers. It's been about 40 years since we received the first multiply balanced woven hard laminate to experiment with and that failed to pass our testing. So, I still think the only advancement in production of archery bows in the past 57 years I've been in the business is the new wovens and their application.

Well… There you have it, I guess!

Flight records would be one way to judge, I suppose.... though when a new record is set, nobody ever asks much about beauty or hand-shock or noise or durability. And all of those factors do matter to most of us, whether we are hunters or not....

The bows that I hang on to have to "perform" in a lot of different ways: they have to have great cast, a good-looking wooden riser, excellent craftsmanship, and a significant historical connection. Beyond that, they have to be at least tolerable in terms of noise, hand shock, and grip suitability. Most of the bows that push these buttons for me seem to have been made between 1959 and 1970.

Speed is just one part of the whole package. Anyone who would buy an ugly, noisy, or metal bow just for the sake of a few more feet per second can't be in my club, LOL.

If you don't know bows, you have to have a source. Larry for bows, Bob for arrows. Larry knows..from inside out.... done. ..my old pearsons shoot about the same as the newer recurves in the shop. Plus they are mine-paid for

Larry is good for me as well. There isn't another person around that has had more input, and knowledge about bow design. So enjoy all of them.

I will add this, todays traditional archers don't know how good they have it. We have so much to choose from nowadays that wasn't available in the past, as far as so-called custom bowyers go. In 1965 it was basically all production, so be happy and enjoy the richness of supply.

I would hope that bow failures because of better glues and processes are less today than in the sixties. I remember when there were a bad batch of Herters bows in our little town, everyone but me shot them. Of course, one could also blame the lack of bow loaders, but it seemed for a couple of years that there were pieces of Herters recurves all over town, when I was a kid. I tried to tell them that I could get them a Root that wouldn't blow up, but they wouldn't listen.

Lotsa choices nowadays.

I agree, my 1967 Ben Pearson Colt can shoot with any bow out there. I have shot newer bows and they do not shot any better, or worse than my Colt.

If you guys think a '67 Colt will shoot with today's bows you haven't shot any of the better bows out today. I can assure you a Z4 Zipper limb with its multi carbon, foam, limbs is a very different animal then a Colt. Torsional stability, speed, smooth, less then 2# per inch of draw, you're not getting that with a vintage bow.

the newer ones are definately faster. Shoot a Black Widow, or Pittsley Predator of the same poundage as any vintage bow and you can tell a noticeable difference. If you are not hung up on arrow speed though, those old bows are plenty fine enough.

Hmmm. Seems to me that my 1960 Kodiak I call "Wapiti" is as fast as any bow I have owned, 900 grain arrow at over 150 fps. And I have owned a lot of fast bows. Of course if one compares a vintage bow with dacron string to a current bow with the latest string material the older bow will be slower. With the same string material, something I use on most of my vintage bows, speeds are remarkably similar with the vintage bow often not giving up a thing.

DDave

Agree with DDave. Another note, the only way a bow can draw 2lb. per inch from an 8" brace height to 28" is if the draw weight is 40lbs. at 28".

A little strange this first ever made fiberglass laminated bows 60+ years old are better than the bows made last week?

I was just shooting a 1956 Root Gamemaster seconds ago, I'll tell you ,, mabe Ernie was an exception , but it shoots as good as any bow I've shot too date..if not better than any ive ever shot...I've mentioned this before over the years and the bow always amazes me..!

I guess the only way to know is to shoot them eh. I have bows that were made over 50 years ago and I have a bow that was just made in May. I know what they will do because I have shot them. I have no need to prove anything to anyone.

DDave

Yes, I know Fred Bear hunted cape buffalo successfully with bows down to 60 lbs, not many people do that today.

FDP, the new materials allow a preload that the old stuff could not. On a #40 the bow will draw much less then 2#/inch.

not much has changed in bow design yes some are faster but take in consideration string material and some different limb core options but if it did change a bunch it wouldn't be (traditional) would it. now for archery yes it change dramatically with the invention and new innovations of the modern bows we came a long way and still going.

LOL, string material biggest difference. BW? most under stressed bow out there.

I have to tell you that while any bow can blow up there are a lot of old bows I wouldnt shoot with a catchers mask and football helmet on. Bows laying under someone's bed for 50 years. With cracks running thru them. No thanks

I think about this topic a lot as I do own several vintage (50s & 60s) Bear bows and I shoot all of them. Thanks for all the input!

Biathlonman

Well I can tell you this. I out shot a guy with a $1300 hundred dollar modern bow using my Colt and he was the NYS IBO Champ. Needless to say he was none to please, since I paid a whopping $45 for mine.

I made up a set of very old Acme cedar arrows, that i was going to give to a friend. he pulled his nose up about that they were old and not tapered. Another pulled his nose up that they were not carbon. He proceeded to demonstrate how good his arrows flew. I shot one of the cedars. His arrows squiggled all of the way to the target. The Acme cedars did the expected 'S' curve and then it was nothing but feathers rotating around the nock, shooting from my friends bow and at his draw length. I shot the other 5 into a tight group, luckily not wrecking any. The carbon kid, then wanted to offer me money for a set of them for him. I let him shoot one out of his bow , just to see, since it seemed like it would be a close fit. They were perfect and he was amazed, but I do not tolerate those nose pulling first reactions for free stuff. I cut the arrows to my preferred draw length to use on a heavier longbow for myself. Improvements have been slight due to material and manufacturing improvements over the years. There will always be limitations and draw backs to extreme variants, just like there was 50 years ago.

As far as performance I would say with some of the modern materials Maybe 15-20 fps with some of the new designs. There is very little difference in "most" of todays bows then 50 years ago. Shawn

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